Obama advisors seek rationed medical care

[The Rabbi]

No insurance coverage from government is even going to come close what private insurers provide today.
Obamacare is nothing but the creation of new bureaucracy. It is political. Obamacare is a new entitlement designed to attract new voters to the democrat party.
The Obamacare fans think the PPACA will give them free and on demand care.
No it does not.
Obamacare is just one giant 320 million person HMO.
DO you really think our federal government is going to give you a perfect unencumbered system free of bureaucracy and administrative nonsense that comes with every other government program?

You've got that backward. The GOP is against it because it will draw voters to the Democratic party.

That's why the Dems got their asses kicked in 2010? Everyone in a contested seat who voted for Obamacare was defeated. Only those Dems who voted against it were re-elected.
No, Obamacare is the most unpopular program ever passed, and will be even more so as the regs start to kick in and people find themselves without real medical care.

 

[SAT2]

No insurance coverage from government is even going to come close what private insurers provide today.
Obamacare is nothing but the creation of new bureaucracy. It is political. Obamacare is a new entitlement designed to attract new voters to the democrat party.
The Obamacare fans think the PPACA will give them free and on demand care.
No it does not.
Obamacare is just one giant 320 million person HMO.
DO you really think our federal government is going to give you a perfect unencumbered system free of bureaucracy and administrative nonsense that comes with every other government program?

You've got that backward. The GOP is against it because it will draw voters to the Democratic party.

That's why the Dems got their asses kicked in 2010? Everyone in a contested seat who voted for Obamacare was defeated. Only those Dems who voted against it were re-elected.
No, Obamacare is the most unpopular program ever passed, and will be even more so as the regs start to kick in and people find themselves without real medical care.

Wow, a lot to cover there.

The idea that people are going to find themselves without "real medical care" is a new one. Where did you get that?

The ACA was heavily demagogued, and the victims of the that disinformation turned out to vote against Democrats.

William Kristol said way back in the Clinton era that if we got national health care, it would be just like social security and Medicare-people would get those benefits, like them, and correctly associate them with the Democratic party. The GOP can't have that.

 

[The Rabbi]

You've got that backward. The GOP is against it because it will draw voters to the Democratic party.

That's why the Dems got their asses kicked in 2010? Everyone in a contested seat who voted for Obamacare was defeated. Only those Dems who voted against it were re-elected.
No, Obamacare is the most unpopular program ever passed, and will be even more so as the regs start to kick in and people find themselves without real medical care.

Wow, a lot to cover there.

The idea that people are going to find themselves without "real medical care" is a new one. Where did you get that?

The ACA was heavily demagogued, and the victims of the that disinformation turned out to vote against Democrats.

William Kristol said way back in the Clinton era that if we got national health care, it would be just like social security and Medicare-people would get those benefits, like them, and correctly associate them with the Democratic party. The GOP can't have that.

Given that "cost savings" are going to come through smaller reimbursements, more and more medical providers will simply exit the system. Already there are areas where Medicare patients cannot find specialists to see them.

So the election turned out that way because the issue was "heavily demagogued"? Really? So the Dems had no ability to campaign on what a great success it was going to be? Is this why they never mentioned it? Or was it because polls showed people didnt like the program. And the more they learned, the less they liked.
The Dems banked on that very comment by Kristol (assuming he actually said it). I am sure Pelosi got it through with those very words. Unfortunately the program had to be "back loaded" with taxes kicking in before benefits. THis way they could score it as deficit neutral (another lie). Of course after 10 years it would show enormous deficits, even on CBO accounting.

 

[Greenbeard]

Given that "cost savings" are going to come through smaller reimbursements, more and more medical providers will simply exit the system.

You should read more about how health care reform lowers the cost of care delivery.

Of course after 10 years it would show enormous deficits, even on CBO accounting.

CBO:

"Therefore, CBO has developed a rough outlook for the decade following the 2010-2019 period by grouping the elements of the legislation into broad categories and (together with the staff of the Joint Committee on Taxation) assessing the rate at which the budgetary impact of each of those broad categories is likely to increase over time. Our analysis indicates that H.R. 3590, as passed by the Senate, would reduce federal budget deficits over the ensuing decade relative to those projected under current law—with a total effect during that decade that is in a broad range between one-quarter percent and one-half percent of gross domestic product (GDP). . .Using that same analytic approach, the combined effect of enacting H.R. 3590 and the reconciliation bill would also be to reduce federal budget deficits over the ensuing decade relative to those projected under current law—with a total effect during that decade that is in a broad range around one-half percent of GDP."​

The ACA reduces the deficit more in the second decade than in the first.

 

[The Rabbi]

The ACA reduces the deficit more in the second decade than in the first.

Uh, no.
New CBO Analysis Hikes Projected Affordable Health Care Act Cost by $115 Billion «

 

[Greenbeard]

The ACA reduces the deficit more in the second decade than in the first.

Uh, no.

Indeed, your characteristic confusion notwithstanding, it really does.

 

[EriktheRed]

Another Obama Advisor Favors Health Care Rationing | Floyd Reports

Another Obama Advisor Favors Health Care Rationing | Joe Miller

DISCOURAGED DOCTORS | Doctor Patient Medical Association..

Government health insurance...Great.
No one with a sane molecule in their brain would want this shit.

This is that "death panels" horseshit all over again. How again is this different from what private insurance companies do now?

 

[EriktheRed]

Since Newt Gingrich has a history of supporting the "individual mandate", maybe a President Gingrich would give us a "single-payer" system - like Medicare for all. Gooo Newt.

another non sequitur...
You lefties are really lost on this deal.
What's the matter. Your favorite lefty blog hasn't come up with a talking point for you to use in response ?

One of your own links is from a guy who was such a total wingnut he got beat by a write-in candidate. Spare us the crap about partisan blogs.

 

[The Rabbi]

The ACA reduces the deficit more in the second decade than in the first.

Uh, no.

Indeed, your characteristic confusion notwithstanding, it really does.

Merely repeating yourself isn't arguing. It's mumbling.

 

[daveman]

You know what's funny?

The people who are saying "Private insurance companies ration health care now!" simultaneously believe that government healthcare, covering millions more people with the same number of health care professionals, won't ration health care.

 

[The T]

You know what's funny?

The people who are saying "Private insurance companies ration health care now!" simultaneously believe that government healthcare, covering millions more people with the same number of health care professionals, won't ration health care.

All fits into thier intent, doesn't it?

 

[EriktheRed]

You know what's funny?

The people who are saying "Private insurance companies ration health care now!" simultaneously believe that government healthcare, covering millions more people with the same number of health care professionals, won't ration health care.

Um, no, actually no one has said that at all, numbnuts. The word "rationing" was brought up by cons in the first place. We're just pointing out that what you con dipshits call "rationing" isn't any different from what's already going on in the private sector.

 

[auditor0007]

Another Obama Advisor Favors Health Care Rationing | Floyd Reports

Another Obama Advisor Favors Health Care Rationing | Joe Miller

DISCOURAGED DOCTORS | Doctor Patient Medical Association..

Government health insurance...Great.
No one with a sane molecule in their brain would want this shit.

We already have rationing, in both the private and public sector. Don't you pay attention to anything? And using the British system as an example is silly. Of course the NHS rations care in some cases. So what? In the British system, people have an option of purchasing private insurance that gives them greater coverage if they so choose. The key is that everyone receives minimal coverage, and for most, that gives them the care they want. For those who want better coverage, they pay more for a private plan. It really is a pretty simple concept.

 

[auditor0007]

You know what's funny?

The people who are saying "Private insurance companies ration health care now!" simultaneously believe that government healthcare, covering millions more people with the same number of health care professionals, won't ration health care.

Wrong, wrong, and wrong again. But please keep trying.

 

[SAT2]

Given that "cost savings" are going to come through smaller reimbursements, more and more medical providers will simply exit the system. Already there are areas where Medicare patients cannot find specialists to see them.

So the election turned out that way because the issue was "heavily demagogued"? Really? So the Dems had no ability to campaign on what a great success it was going to be? Is this why they never mentioned it? Or was it because polls showed people didnt like the program. And the more they learned, the less they liked.
The Dems banked on that very comment by Kristol (assuming he actually said it). I am sure Pelosi got it through with those very words. Unfortunately the program had to be "back loaded" with taxes kicking in before benefits. THis way they could score it as deficit neutral (another lie). Of course after 10 years it would show enormous deficits, even on CBO accounting.

Oh, please. You cannot dispute that there was a massive disinformation campaign.

Some people believed that there were death panels. Others didn't like it because it didn't include a public option. You lump both in together, unwittingly.

Here's a PDF of the memo.

Bill Kristol’s 1993 Memo Calling For GOP To Block Health Care Reform | The Plum Line

You know what's funny?

The people who are saying "Private insurance companies ration health care now!" simultaneously believe that government healthcare, covering millions more people with the same number of health care professionals, won't ration health care.

You know what's sad? That you have misunderstood most of what's been said in the thread, and you don't realize it. Yeah, government will ration health care. So does private insurance. DUH. We're explaining to you that you're already living with rationed care. Already, so what's your beef?

 

[Greenbeard]

We already have rationing, in both the private and public sector. Don't you pay attention to anything?

There are some folks out there who don't understand that everything with a price tag is rationed. Doesn't matter if your insurance company is private or public.

 

[SAT2]

We already have rationing, in both the private and public sector. Don't you pay attention to anything?

There are some folks out there who don't understand that everything with a price tag is rationed. Doesn't matter if your insurance company is private or public.

Exactly.

Anything limited is "rationed".

When there is limited supply, and great demand, high prices are a way of rationing.

What we're paying for right now is health care plus very expensive administrative costs.

You know what would fix that? Single payer.

 

[daveman]

You know what's funny?

The people who are saying "Private insurance companies ration health care now!" simultaneously believe that government healthcare, covering millions more people with the same number of health care professionals, won't ration health care.

All fits into thier intent, doesn't it?

Indeed...greater government control over individual lives.

 

[The T]

You know what's funny?

The people who are saying "Private insurance companies ration health care now!" simultaneously believe that government healthcare, covering millions more people with the same number of health care professionals, won't ration health care.

All fits into thier intent, doesn't it?

Indeed...greater government control over individual lives.

While claiming that Corporations are the same as thier ideology. All I see is a complete and utter attempt to derail the Free Market and the power of the individual purse.

Any company that doesn't practice honest business won't survive by natural common sense.
Yet we have people here that portend to tell us that Government initiated/enforced Healthcare is the same as what is offered by private business.

Hence they blur the line between Liberty, and tyranny with a thumbs up to tyranny (Government).

 

[daveman]

You know what's funny?

The people who are saying "Private insurance companies ration health care now!" simultaneously believe that government healthcare, covering millions more people with the same number of health care professionals, won't ration health care.

Um, no, actually no one has said that at all, numbnuts.

The White House did, you moron.