NY Gay Marriage Baggage

[Polk]

Seriously, this reasoning will polarize, big time. I guess in one way there is good in it. Catholics and Muslims will be in the same camp here. Personally, I'm into Individual Liberty, without forcing others to act against their will or conscience here.

I was being flip, I agree with you. but the gov. will make a case that since they alone can hand out marriage license's and 'control' who can perform marriages they can then dictate who has to marry who...I think thats detrimental in this case, but hey, see my previous answer.

Because I'm Catholic, marriage is a union before God. It has nothing to do with the state or anyone else. I have no issue with gays having an authorized union - and be entitled to whatever rights, duties and privileges go with that. What they cannot have is a Catholic Marriage because the Catholic Church does not recognize gay unions. That isn't to say we are homophobic, we aren't. But, to Catholics, marriage is defined as 'the coming together of one man and one woman for the procreation of children, mutual comfort, blah blah blah.... key phrase: procreation of children.

Since no one is demanding Catholic churches marry them, what's your point?

The stance of the church in gay marriage has nothing to do with the procreation of children. They have no problems with infertile heterosexual couples marrying.

 

[Intense]

I doubt that same-sex unions can have much effect on marriage as a social institution. We live, to the extent the law allows, in a free society; and so one should be free to be miserable as one chooses, whether with a partner of the same sex or the opposite.

No argument there.

 

[Intense]

The Gay marriage issue shows the hypocracy of the right. They yell keep government out of our lives but then they want to use government to enforce all of their social ideals. Gyngrich was right when he called it social engineering.

Pretty lame comeback and off topic. Think before you Post.

he issue here is forcing Clergy to perform actions against their Conscience and Faith. There are Unalienable Rights Issues, Civil Right's Issues, and Separation of Church and State Issues, here.

P.S. Spell Check can be your friend.

 

[Intense]

The Gay marriage issue shows the hypocracy of the right. They yell keep government out of our lives but then they want to use government to enforce all of their social ideals. Gyngrich was right when he called it social engineering.

I know this may be news to you, so here ya go; history didn't start in jan 2001.

Your right it started a long time ago, but it is not just the gay marraige issue. The religious right has been trying to enforce their brand of morality on the US dating all the way back to the witch burnings, prohibition, current alcohol laws in the US are still in place because of the religious right, i.e. dry counties and when one can purchase liquor. Then you have the abortion issue, followed by their personal invasion of a private citizens life during the Terry Schivo debacle, that is a persons right to die. Lets not forget assisted sucides conducted by Jack Kevorkian. Then we can move on to how they are pushing their morality into the Pharmacists occupation with thier moral objections to the day after pill. The right has been trying to enforce their brand of morality for a long, long time. Perhaps this is news to you.

I think you are confusing Politics with Human Nature. You are also confusing Local and State Laws with Federal Law. You are all over the map with misrepresentations and obsessions. Why not consider starting a Thread of your own on what is troubling you, and stop derailing this one. I would like very much to keep this out of the Flame Zone, the Romper Room, and the Trash. Try posting on Topic.

 

[rightwinger]

The Gay marriage issue shows the hypocracy of the right. They yell keep government out of our lives but then they want to use government to enforce all of their social ideals. Gyngrich was right when he called it social engineering.

Pretty lame comeback and off topic. Think before you Post.

he issue here is forcing Clergy to perform actions against their Conscience and Faith. There are Unalienable Rights Issues, Civil Right's Issues, and Separation of Church and State Issues, here.

P.S. Spell Check can be your friend.

Who ever raised the issue of forcing Churches to marry people? The issue is the Government refusing to acknowledge gay marriage because of religious objections

 

[California Girl]

I was being flip, I agree with you. but the gov. will make a case that since they alone can hand out marriage license's and 'control' who can perform marriages they can then dictate who has to marry who...I think thats detrimental in this case, but hey, see my previous answer.

Because I'm Catholic, marriage is a union before God. It has nothing to do with the state or anyone else. I have no issue with gays having an authorized union - and be entitled to whatever rights, duties and privileges go with that. What they cannot have is a Catholic Marriage because the Catholic Church does not recognize gay unions. That isn't to say we are homophobic, we aren't. But, to Catholics, marriage is defined as 'the coming together of one man and one woman for the procreation of children, mutual comfort, blah blah blah.... key phrase: procreation of children.

Sterile men or women are not allowed to get married in the Catholic church? Key phrase : procreation of children.

Fuck off, idiot.

 

[Intense]

Because I'm Catholic, marriage is a union before God. It has nothing to do with the state or anyone else. I have no issue with gays having an authorized union - and be entitled to whatever rights, duties and privileges go with that. What they cannot have is a Catholic Marriage because the Catholic Church does not recognize gay unions. That isn't to say we are homophobic, we aren't. But, to Catholics, marriage is defined as 'the coming together of one man and one woman for the procreation of children, mutual comfort, blah blah blah.... key phrase: procreation of children.

It should be a wholly Religious exercise garnered with absolute reverence and respect...and left to the Churches. Anything else cheapens it.

That is correct. And if gays find a church willing to marry them, the state should recognize that marriage just like any other marriage

That is getting very close to reality. There are always Court, Ship, and Clinton Marriages too. Clinton did preside over the Weiner Wedding, right?

 

[Intense]

It should be a wholly Religious exercise garnered with absolute reverence and respect...and left to the Churches. Anything else cheapens it.

That is correct. And if gays find a church willing to marry them, the state should recognize that marriage just like any other marriage

So when the Gays create their own church and start getting married how long do you think the religious right will let that stand unopposed?

I don't see a problem there. It seems more an irreversible trend. When it does get here, it will be here to stay.

 

[Intense]

ALBANY, N.Y. (AP) — Gov. Andrew Cuomo said he was cautiously optimistic his gay marriage bill will soon become law as he held more one-on-one negotiations Friday with Senate Republicans. The Republicans who hold the critical votes say they worry Cuomo's bill doesn't adequately protect religious groups and churches that refuse to preside over same-sex weddings and other services..........

"There has been no decision — in fact that really was not the discussion — as to whether it will come out yet, who's voting for it, who's voting against it," Majority Leader Dean Skelos said immediately after Friday's two-hour conference.

The Long Island Republican said senators for and against gay marriage want to make the sure that if the bill gets a floor vote there won't be "unintended consequences to this legislation" — a reference to religious protections.

Skelos didn't go into more details but noted that some Catholic adoption agencies closed after a law was passed years ago prohibiting discrimination against gays and lesbians.

Other Republicans have sought further protections of caterers and others who might object to providing services or a venue for a wedding of a same-sex couple. One proposal apparently not under serious discussion would protect individuals opposed to gay marriage from laws against discrimination.

"They want to make sure the line between church and state is intact and is clear and however the state defines marriage, is the state's business and it will not be imposed on a religion," Cuomo, a Catholic, said Friday.

"That is a very important point and I am as equally concerned about that as I am in achieving marriage equality," the Democrat said. "I believe we can address their concerns."

N.Y. gay marriage bill hits snags on religion questions - USATODAY.com

Where do we draw the line between Church and State? Individual Conscience and the will of the State backed by mandate. What does the State have the Right to Force You to participate in, where, how, and why is that line drawn in the sand?

Let's distinguish between Gay Coupling or Marriage Rights, and their desire to force others to participate against their will and conscience, by mandate. Why exactly can't we have one without the other? Is it that your Ethics are okay, because you are special, but mine are not?
It is right for you to impose your will on me because......

Someone is forcing you to participate in a gay marriage? They can do that? Who knew?

You are confused about the point. The issue is whether Clergy should be forced by the Power of the State to perform, preside over, Gay Weddings, under Penalty of Law.

Take a step back and recheck your premise.

 

[Intense]

Where do we draw the line between Church and State? Individual Conscience and the will of the State backed by mandate. What does the State have the Right to Force You to participate in, where, how, and why is that line drawn in the sand?

Let's distinguish between Gay Coupling or Marriage Rights, and their desire to force others to participate against their will and conscience, by mandate. Why exactly can't we have one without the other? Is it that your Ethics are okay, because you are special, but mine are not?
It is right for you to impose your will on me because......

Someone is forcing you to participate in a gay marriage? They can do that? Who knew?

How do you think they get people to be gay if not by force?

Why are you trolling Rdean??? To what end??? You can't be that stupid. You are better than that.

 

[Intense]

The Gay marriage issue shows the hypocracy of the right. They yell keep government out of our lives but then they want to use government to enforce all of their social ideals. Gyngrich was right when he called it social engineering.

Pretty lame comeback and off topic. Think before you Post.

he issue here is forcing Clergy to perform actions against their Conscience and Faith. There are Unalienable Rights Issues, Civil Right's Issues, and Separation of Church and State Issues, here.

P.S. Spell Check can be your friend.

Who ever raised the issue of forcing Churches to marry people? The issue is the Government refusing to acknowledge gay marriage because of religious objections

Try reading the OP. Please stop trolling. Thank You for playing.

 

[Intense]

I was being flip, I agree with you. but the gov. will make a case that since they alone can hand out marriage license's and 'control' who can perform marriages they can then dictate who has to marry who...I think thats detrimental in this case, but hey, see my previous answer.

Because I'm Catholic, marriage is a union before God. It has nothing to do with the state or anyone else. I have no issue with gays having an authorized union - and be entitled to whatever rights, duties and privileges go with that. What they cannot have is a Catholic Marriage because the Catholic Church does not recognize gay unions. That isn't to say we are homophobic, we aren't. But, to Catholics, marriage is defined as 'the coming together of one man and one woman for the procreation of children, mutual comfort, blah blah blah.... key phrase: procreation of children.

Since no one is demanding Catholic churches marry them, what's your point?

The stance of the church in gay marriage has nothing to do with the procreation of children. They have no problems with infertile heterosexual couples marrying.

That is not exactly true. The matter is under review and consideration, which is the point of the Thread. It is something that has the potential of taking on a life of it's own.

 

[rightwinger]

Someone is forcing you to participate in a gay marriage? They can do that? Who knew?

How do you think they get people to be gay if not by force?

Why are you trolling Rdean??? To what end??? You can't be that stupid. You are better than that.

Sarcasm

 

[Intense]

How do you think they get people to be gay if not by force?

Why are you trolling Rdean??? To what end??? You can't be that stupid. You are better than that.

Sarcasm

Are you that far gone? This is not SNL Celebrity Jeopardy RDean, and you are not a Rodeo Clown. Why not just stop with the derailing Bullshit and grow a spine.

 

[bodecea]

I have never understood what the big deal was with "gay marriage". Gays can not marry. Marriage is a religious institution.

When me and my wife got married we entered into a civil union based on the states definition and a marriage before God. Let the gays have civil unions so they can share each others health insurance etc. Most states recognize couples living together as being financially linked.

But they will never be married. God does not approve and no matter how many chruches reject what the bible plainly says they can not be married.

Churches already marry gay couples...We were married in a religious ceremony in a religious institution almost two decades before the state of CA granted us our legal marriage license.

 

[tonystewart1]

I have never understood what the big deal was with "gay marriage". Gays can not marry. Marriage is a religious institution.

When me and my wife got married we entered into a civil union based on the states definition and a marriage before God. Let the gays have civil unions so they can share each others health insurance etc. Most states recognize couples living together as being financially linked.

But they will never be married. God does not approve and no matter how many chruches reject what the bible plainly says they can not be married.

Churches already marry gay couples...We were married in a religious ceremony in a religious institution almost two decades before the state of CA granted us our legal marriage license.

I am very happy for you that you found happiness but God does not recognize that marriage. The bible is really plain and simple on that matter. Sorry.

No man of God can be forced to marry gay couples. Every preacher I know will not marry gay couples they will go to jail first.

 

[bodecea]

I have never understood what the big deal was with "gay marriage". Gays can not marry. Marriage is a religious institution.

When me and my wife got married we entered into a civil union based on the states definition and a marriage before God. Let the gays have civil unions so they can share each others health insurance etc. Most states recognize couples living together as being financially linked.

But they will never be married. God does not approve and no matter how many chruches reject what the bible plainly says they can not be married.

Churches already marry gay couples...We were married in a religious ceremony in a religious institution almost two decades before the state of CA granted us our legal marriage license.

I am very happy for you that you found happiness but God does not recognize that marriage. The bible is really plain and simple on that matter. Sorry.

No man of God can be forced to marry gay couples. Every preacher I know will not marry gay couples they will go to jail first.

Of course God recognises our marriage...just as much as yours. What a ridiculous thing for you to say....speaking for God...just because YOU personally don't know any ministers who will marry gay couples is NOT the end all and be all. Very arrogant of you...speaking for God and all ministers. This is the kind of arrogance that is trying to force YOUR religious views on our laws.

 

[tonystewart1]

No you are trying to force your religous views on me. No one can convice me that gay marriage is supported by the Bible. Why dont you list some versus that support your claim?

Romans 1:26-27

For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their woman did change the natural use into that which is against nature.

And like wise the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another: men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.


Leviticus 18:22, 24

Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind, it is abomination. Defile not ye yourselves in any of these things



Deuteronomy 23:17-18

There shall be no whore of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite of the sons of Israel.

Thou shalt not bring the hire of a whore, or the price of a dog, into the house of the LORD thy God for any vow: for even both these are abomination unto the LORD thy God.

 

[del]

No you are trying to force your religous views on me. No one can convice me that gay marriage is supported by the Bible. Why dont you list some versus that support your claim?

Romans 1:26-27

For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their woman did change the natural use into that which is against nature.

And like wise the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another: men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.


Leviticus 18:22, 24

Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind, it is abomination. Defile not ye yourselves in any of these things



Deuteronomy 23:17-18

There shall be no whore of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite of the sons of Israel.

Thou shalt not bring the hire of a whore, or the price of a dog, into the house of the LORD thy God for any vow: for even both these are abomination unto the LORD thy God.

the bible isn't god.

all you need to know about god is that you aren't

 

[tonystewart1]

No you are trying to force your religous views on me. No one can convice me that gay marriage is supported by the Bible. Why dont you list some versus that support your claim?

Romans 1:26-27

For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their woman did change the natural use into that which is against nature.

And like wise the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another: men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.


Leviticus 18:22, 24

Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind, it is abomination. Defile not ye yourselves in any of these things



Deuteronomy 23:17-18

There shall be no whore of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite of the sons of Israel.

Thou shalt not bring the hire of a whore, or the price of a dog, into the house of the LORD thy God for any vow: for even both these are abomination unto the LORD thy God.

the bible isn't god.

all you need to know about god is that you aren't

Again somebody who does not read their bible.

St.John 1:1 In the begining was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God.

All I am doing is proving the the bible does not endorse gay marriage. I do not claim to be God. When you make statments like that it make you look ignorant.