NY Gay Marriage Baggage

[Intense]

ALBANY, N.Y. (AP) — Gov. Andrew Cuomo said he was cautiously optimistic his gay marriage bill will soon become law as he held more one-on-one negotiations Friday with Senate Republicans. The Republicans who hold the critical votes say they worry Cuomo's bill doesn't adequately protect religious groups and churches that refuse to preside over same-sex weddings and other services..........

"There has been no decision — in fact that really was not the discussion — as to whether it will come out yet, who's voting for it, who's voting against it," Majority Leader Dean Skelos said immediately after Friday's two-hour conference.

The Long Island Republican said senators for and against gay marriage want to make the sure that if the bill gets a floor vote there won't be "unintended consequences to this legislation" — a reference to religious protections.

Skelos didn't go into more details but noted that some Catholic adoption agencies closed after a law was passed years ago prohibiting discrimination against gays and lesbians.

Other Republicans have sought further protections of caterers and others who might object to providing services or a venue for a wedding of a same-sex couple. One proposal apparently not under serious discussion would protect individuals opposed to gay marriage from laws against discrimination.

"They want to make sure the line between church and state is intact and is clear and however the state defines marriage, is the state's business and it will not be imposed on a religion," Cuomo, a Catholic, said Friday.

"That is a very important point and I am as equally concerned about that as I am in achieving marriage equality," the Democrat said. "I believe we can address their concerns."

N.Y. gay marriage bill hits snags on religion questions - USATODAY.com

Where do we draw the line between Church and State? Individual Conscience and the will of the State backed by mandate. What does the State have the Right to Force You to participate in, where, how, and why is that line drawn in the sand?

Let's distinguish between Gay Coupling or Marriage Rights, and their desire to force others to participate against their will and conscience, by mandate. Why exactly can't we have one without the other? Is it that your Ethics are okay, because you are special, but mine are not?
It is right for you to impose your will on me because......

 

[tonystewart1]

I have never understood what the big deal was with "gay marriage". Gays can not marry. Marriage is a religious institution.

When me and my wife got married we entered into a civil union based on the states definition and a marriage before God. Let the gays have civil unions so they can share each others health insurance etc. Most states recognize couples living together as being financially linked.

But they will never be married. God does not approve and no matter how many chruches reject what the bible plainly says they can not be married.

 

[Trajan]

ALBANY, N.Y. (AP) — Gov. Andrew Cuomo said he was cautiously optimistic his gay marriage bill will soon become law as he held more one-on-one negotiations Friday with Senate Republicans. The Republicans who hold the critical votes say they worry Cuomo's bill doesn't adequately protect religious groups and churches that refuse to preside over same-sex weddings and other services..........

"There has been no decision — in fact that really was not the discussion — as to whether it will come out yet, who's voting for it, who's voting against it," Majority Leader Dean Skelos said immediately after Friday's two-hour conference.

The Long Island Republican said senators for and against gay marriage want to make the sure that if the bill gets a floor vote there won't be "unintended consequences to this legislation" — a reference to religious protections.

Skelos didn't go into more details but noted that some Catholic adoption agencies closed after a law was passed years ago prohibiting discrimination against gays and lesbians.

Other Republicans have sought further protections of caterers and others who might object to providing services or a venue for a wedding of a same-sex couple. One proposal apparently not under serious discussion would protect individuals opposed to gay marriage from laws against discrimination.

"They want to make sure the line between church and state is intact and is clear and however the state defines marriage, is the state's business and it will not be imposed on a religion," Cuomo, a Catholic, said Friday.

"That is a very important point and I am as equally concerned about that as I am in achieving marriage equality," the Democrat said. "I believe we can address their concerns."

N.Y. gay marriage bill hits snags on religion questions - USATODAY.com

Where do we draw the line between Church and State? Individual Conscience and the will of the State backed by mandate. What does the State have the Right to Force You to participate in, where, how, and why is that line drawn in the sand?

Let's distinguish between Gay Coupling or Marriage Rights, and their desire to force others to participate against their will and conscience, by mandate. Why exactly can't we have one without the other? Is it that your Ethics are okay, because you are special, but mine are not?




It is right for you to impose your will on me because......

because; they have the police, guns and tax authority.

 

[Intense]

ALBANY, N.Y. (AP) — Gov. Andrew Cuomo said he was cautiously optimistic his gay marriage bill will soon become law as he held more one-on-one negotiations Friday with Senate Republicans. The Republicans who hold the critical votes say they worry Cuomo's bill doesn't adequately protect religious groups and churches that refuse to preside over same-sex weddings and other services..........

"There has been no decision — in fact that really was not the discussion — as to whether it will come out yet, who's voting for it, who's voting against it," Majority Leader Dean Skelos said immediately after Friday's two-hour conference.

The Long Island Republican said senators for and against gay marriage want to make the sure that if the bill gets a floor vote there won't be "unintended consequences to this legislation" — a reference to religious protections.

Skelos didn't go into more details but noted that some Catholic adoption agencies closed after a law was passed years ago prohibiting discrimination against gays and lesbians.

Other Republicans have sought further protections of caterers and others who might object to providing services or a venue for a wedding of a same-sex couple. One proposal apparently not under serious discussion would protect individuals opposed to gay marriage from laws against discrimination.

"They want to make sure the line between church and state is intact and is clear and however the state defines marriage, is the state's business and it will not be imposed on a religion," Cuomo, a Catholic, said Friday.

"That is a very important point and I am as equally concerned about that as I am in achieving marriage equality," the Democrat said. "I believe we can address their concerns."

N.Y. gay marriage bill hits snags on religion questions - USATODAY.com

Where do we draw the line between Church and State? Individual Conscience and the will of the State backed by mandate. What does the State have the Right to Force You to participate in, where, how, and why is that line drawn in the sand?

Let's distinguish between Gay Coupling or Marriage Rights, and their desire to force others to participate against their will and conscience, by mandate. Why exactly can't we have one without the other? Is it that your Ethics are okay, because you are special, but mine are not?




It is right for you to impose your will on me because......

because; they have the police, guns and tax authority.

Totalitarian Wet Dream Syndrome, Exactly!

 

[Intense]

Seriously, this reasoning will polarize, big time. I guess in one way there is good in it. Catholics and Muslims will be in the same camp here. Personally, I'm into Individual Liberty, without forcing others to act against their will or conscience here.

 

[Nemo]

I doubt that same-sex unions can have much effect on marriage as a social institution. We live, to the extent the law allows, in a free society; and so one should be free to be miserable as one chooses, whether with a partner of the same sex or the opposite.

 

[Trajan]

Seriously, this reasoning will polarize, big time. I guess in one way there is good in it. Catholics and Muslims will be in the same camp here. Personally, I'm into Individual Liberty, without forcing others to act against their will or conscience here.

I was being flip, I agree with you. but the gov. will make a case that since they alone can hand out marriage license's and 'control' who can perform marriages they can then dictate who has to marry who...I think thats detrimental in this case, but hey, see my previous answer.

 

[California Girl]

Seriously, this reasoning will polarize, big time. I guess in one way there is good in it. Catholics and Muslims will be in the same camp here. Personally, I'm into Individual Liberty, without forcing others to act against their will or conscience here.

I was being flip, I agree with you. but the gov. will make a case that since they alone can hand out marriage license's and 'control' who can perform marriages they can then dictate who has to marry who...I think thats detrimental in this case, but hey, see my previous answer.

Because I'm Catholic, marriage is a union before God. It has nothing to do with the state or anyone else. I have no issue with gays having an authorized union - and be entitled to whatever rights, duties and privileges go with that. What they cannot have is a Catholic Marriage because the Catholic Church does not recognize gay unions. That isn't to say we are homophobic, we aren't. But, to Catholics, marriage is defined as 'the coming together of one man and one woman for the procreation of children, mutual comfort, blah blah blah.... key phrase: procreation of children.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Why does anyone want the state involved in marriage in the first place? Get the government out of marriage completely and problem solved.

 

[The T]

Seriously, this reasoning will polarize, big time. I guess in one way there is good in it. Catholics and Muslims will be in the same camp here. Personally, I'm into Individual Liberty, without forcing others to act against their will or conscience here.

Or by imposed law to correct any social injustice, real or imagined.

 

[The T]

Seriously, this reasoning will polarize, big time. I guess in one way there is good in it. Catholics and Muslims will be in the same camp here. Personally, I'm into Individual Liberty, without forcing others to act against their will or conscience here.

I was being flip, I agree with you. but the gov. will make a case that since they alone can hand out marriage license's and 'control' who can perform marriages they can then dictate who has to marry who...I think thats detrimental in this case, but hey, see my previous answer.

Because I'm Catholic, marriage is a union before God. It has nothing to do with the state or anyone else. I have no issue with gays having an authorized union - and be entitled to whatever rights, duties and privileges go with that. What they cannot have is a Catholic Marriage because the Catholic Church does not recognize gay unions. That isn't to say we are homophobic, we aren't. But, to Catholics, marriage is defined as 'the coming together of one man and one woman for the procreation of children, mutual comfort, blah blah blah.... key phrase: procreation of children.

It should be a wholly Religious exercise garnered with absolute reverence and respect...and left to the Churches. Anything else cheapens it.

 

[spectrumc01]

Seriously, this reasoning will polarize, big time. I guess in one way there is good in it. Catholics and Muslims will be in the same camp here. Personally, I'm into Individual Liberty, without forcing others to act against their will or conscience here.

I was being flip, I agree with you. but the gov. will make a case that since they alone can hand out marriage license's and 'control' who can perform marriages they can then dictate who has to marry who...I think thats detrimental in this case, but hey, see my previous answer.

Because I'm Catholic, marriage is a union before God. It has nothing to do with the state or anyone else. I have no issue with gays having an authorized union - and be entitled to whatever rights, duties and privileges go with that. What they cannot have is a Catholic Marriage because the Catholic Church does not recognize gay unions. That isn't to say we are homophobic, we aren't. But, to Catholics, marriage is defined as 'the coming together of one man and one woman for the procreation of children, mutual comfort, blah blah blah.... key phrase: procreation of children.

Sterile men or women are not allowed to get married in the Catholic church? Key phrase : procreation of children.

 

[spectrumc01]

The Gay marriage issue shows the hypocracy of the right. They yell keep government out of our lives but then they want to use government to enforce all of their social ideals. Gyngrich was right when he called it social engineering.

 

[Trajan]

The Gay marriage issue shows the hypocracy of the right. They yell keep government out of our lives but then they want to use government to enforce all of their social ideals. Gyngrich was right when he called it social engineering.

I know this may be news to you, so here ya go; history didn't start in jan 2001.

 

[spectrumc01]

The Gay marriage issue shows the hypocracy of the right. They yell keep government out of our lives but then they want to use government to enforce all of their social ideals. Gyngrich was right when he called it social engineering.

I know this may be news to you, so here ya go; history didn't start in jan 2001.

Your right it started a long time ago, but it is not just the gay marraige issue. The religious right has been trying to enforce their brand of morality on the US dating all the way back to the witch burnings, prohibition, current alcohol laws in the US are still in place because of the religious right, i.e. dry counties and when one can purchase liquor. Then you have the abortion issue, followed by their personal invasion of a private citizens life during the Terry Schivo debacle, that is a persons right to die. Lets not forget assisted sucides conducted by Jack Kevorkian. Then we can move on to how they are pushing their morality into the Pharmacists occupation with thier moral objections to the day after pill. The right has been trying to enforce their brand of morality for a long, long time. Perhaps this is news to you.

 

[rightwinger]

I was being flip, I agree with you. but the gov. will make a case that since they alone can hand out marriage license's and 'control' who can perform marriages they can then dictate who has to marry who...I think thats detrimental in this case, but hey, see my previous answer.

Because I'm Catholic, marriage is a union before God. It has nothing to do with the state or anyone else. I have no issue with gays having an authorized union - and be entitled to whatever rights, duties and privileges go with that. What they cannot have is a Catholic Marriage because the Catholic Church does not recognize gay unions. That isn't to say we are homophobic, we aren't. But, to Catholics, marriage is defined as 'the coming together of one man and one woman for the procreation of children, mutual comfort, blah blah blah.... key phrase: procreation of children.

It should be a wholly Religious exercise garnered with absolute reverence and respect...and left to the Churches. Anything else cheapens it.

That is correct. And if gays find a church willing to marry them, the state should recognize that marriage just like any other marriage

 

[spectrumc01]

Because I'm Catholic, marriage is a union before God. It has nothing to do with the state or anyone else. I have no issue with gays having an authorized union - and be entitled to whatever rights, duties and privileges go with that. What they cannot have is a Catholic Marriage because the Catholic Church does not recognize gay unions. That isn't to say we are homophobic, we aren't. But, to Catholics, marriage is defined as 'the coming together of one man and one woman for the procreation of children, mutual comfort, blah blah blah.... key phrase: procreation of children.

It should be a wholly Religious exercise garnered with absolute reverence and respect...and left to the Churches. Anything else cheapens it.

That is correct. And if gays find a church willing to marry them, the state should recognize that marriage just like any other marriage

So when the Gays create their own church and start getting married how long do you think the religious right will let that stand unopposed?

 

[rightwinger]

It should be a wholly Religious exercise garnered with absolute reverence and respect...and left to the Churches. Anything else cheapens it.

That is correct. And if gays find a church willing to marry them, the state should recognize that marriage just like any other marriage

So when the Gays create their own church and start getting married how long do you think the religious right will let that stand unopposed?

Anyone can form a church

L Ron Hubbard did it

 

[rdean]

ALBANY, N.Y. (AP) — Gov. Andrew Cuomo said he was cautiously optimistic his gay marriage bill will soon become law as he held more one-on-one negotiations Friday with Senate Republicans. The Republicans who hold the critical votes say they worry Cuomo's bill doesn't adequately protect religious groups and churches that refuse to preside over same-sex weddings and other services..........

"There has been no decision — in fact that really was not the discussion — as to whether it will come out yet, who's voting for it, who's voting against it," Majority Leader Dean Skelos said immediately after Friday's two-hour conference.

The Long Island Republican said senators for and against gay marriage want to make the sure that if the bill gets a floor vote there won't be "unintended consequences to this legislation" — a reference to religious protections.

Skelos didn't go into more details but noted that some Catholic adoption agencies closed after a law was passed years ago prohibiting discrimination against gays and lesbians.

Other Republicans have sought further protections of caterers and others who might object to providing services or a venue for a wedding of a same-sex couple. One proposal apparently not under serious discussion would protect individuals opposed to gay marriage from laws against discrimination.

"They want to make sure the line between church and state is intact and is clear and however the state defines marriage, is the state's business and it will not be imposed on a religion," Cuomo, a Catholic, said Friday.

"That is a very important point and I am as equally concerned about that as I am in achieving marriage equality," the Democrat said. "I believe we can address their concerns."

N.Y. gay marriage bill hits snags on religion questions - USATODAY.com

Where do we draw the line between Church and State? Individual Conscience and the will of the State backed by mandate. What does the State have the Right to Force You to participate in, where, how, and why is that line drawn in the sand?

Let's distinguish between Gay Coupling or Marriage Rights, and their desire to force others to participate against their will and conscience, by mandate. Why exactly can't we have one without the other? Is it that your Ethics are okay, because you are special, but mine are not?
It is right for you to impose your will on me because......

Someone is forcing you to participate in a gay marriage? They can do that? Who knew?

 

[rightwinger]

ALBANY, N.Y. (AP) — Gov. Andrew Cuomo said he was cautiously optimistic his gay marriage bill will soon become law as he held more one-on-one negotiations Friday with Senate Republicans. The Republicans who hold the critical votes say they worry Cuomo's bill doesn't adequately protect religious groups and churches that refuse to preside over same-sex weddings and other services..........

"There has been no decision — in fact that really was not the discussion — as to whether it will come out yet, who's voting for it, who's voting against it," Majority Leader Dean Skelos said immediately after Friday's two-hour conference.

The Long Island Republican said senators for and against gay marriage want to make the sure that if the bill gets a floor vote there won't be "unintended consequences to this legislation" — a reference to religious protections.

Skelos didn't go into more details but noted that some Catholic adoption agencies closed after a law was passed years ago prohibiting discrimination against gays and lesbians.

Other Republicans have sought further protections of caterers and others who might object to providing services or a venue for a wedding of a same-sex couple. One proposal apparently not under serious discussion would protect individuals opposed to gay marriage from laws against discrimination.

"They want to make sure the line between church and state is intact and is clear and however the state defines marriage, is the state's business and it will not be imposed on a religion," Cuomo, a Catholic, said Friday.

"That is a very important point and I am as equally concerned about that as I am in achieving marriage equality," the Democrat said. "I believe we can address their concerns."

N.Y. gay marriage bill hits snags on religion questions - USATODAY.com

Where do we draw the line between Church and State? Individual Conscience and the will of the State backed by mandate. What does the State have the Right to Force You to participate in, where, how, and why is that line drawn in the sand?

Let's distinguish between Gay Coupling or Marriage Rights, and their desire to force others to participate against their will and conscience, by mandate. Why exactly can't we have one without the other? Is it that your Ethics are okay, because you are special, but mine are not?
It is right for you to impose your will on me because......

Someone is forcing you to participate in a gay marriage? They can do that? Who knew?

How do you think they get people to be gay if not by force?