Nuclear Options Regarding Ukraine (Poll)

[Toro]

Also, this.

Don’t buy Putin’s bullshit.

 

[badger2]

It's probably happening.....they just won't let us see the bodies.

Bodies that matter are debauching over the Mexican border while POSPOTUS helps get us to WWIII.

 

[zaangalewa]

Fascists, like yourself, don't need a reason

Idiot.

 

[ESay]

feel better already knowing that nukes are nearly off the table

How do you know that? The use of so called tactical nuke weapons can't be excluded, especially if Russia suffers heavy losses in their prepared fight in the Donbas.

Also, Russia has already warned the US and Nato to stop sending heavy weapons to Ukraine. Basically it threatened 'enexpected consequences' if their demands aren't complied with.

 

[kyzr]

How do you know that? The use of so called tactical nuke weapons can't be excluded, especially if Russia suffers heavy losses in their prepared fight in the Donbas.
Also, Russia has already warned the US and Nato to stop sending heavy weapons to Ukraine. Basically it threatened 'unexpected consequences' if their demands aren't complied with.

How I know nukes are off the table is because Putin isn't that stupid. That is a lose-lose option.
The US and NATO is sending heavy weapons, Howitzers, helicopters, drones, etc. today.
Putin should soon see that his military is over-matched by NATO and the Ukrainian people.
The Russian GDP is taking a big hit, Russia went from an economy the size of Italy to one the size of Zambia.
There is no light at the end of the tunnel for Puti's invasion of Ukraine, its time to cut losses.

 

[ESay]

How I know nukes are off the table is because Putin isn't that stupid. That is a lose-lose option.
The US and NATO is sending heavy weapons, Howitzers, helicopters, drones, etc. today.
Putin should soon see that his military is over-matched by NATO and the Ukrainian people.
The Russian GDP is taking a big hit, Russia went from an economy the size of Italy to one the size of Zambia.
There is no light at the end of the tunnel for Puti's invasion of Ukraine, its time to cut losses.

I don't know what Putin is, but a lose-lose option was to begin the war. In the eyes of the Russians this war isn't between Russia and Ukraine, but between Russia and the US where Ukraine is used as a proxy. And Russian propaganda has been pushing for years that the current "Kiev regime' is an existential threat to Russia. The pretext of this war is to eliminate this threat.

This situation is similar with that with Iran. The Iranian regime can't abandon their nuclear policy and meddling in regional affairs, because they think it is of vital importance of their security. Here is the same. Russia can't abandon its policy in eliminating Ukraine, because it will be considered as a defeat of the ruling regime.

 

[SavannahMann]

The line between Tactical and Strategic is an illusion. A nuke is a nuke. Period.

If a “Tactical” nuke goes off. Let’s be honest. World Wide Nuclear War launches within a couple days at the most.

First everyone with a Nuke goes to high alert. For America, that is DEFCON 2. Ballistic Missile Submarines get warning orders. The rules of engagement change to responding to hostile actions. And what those are can and will be misconstrued.

Bombers take off and hold at final hold points guarded by fighters. Russian fighters come up and an air battle ensues.

Navy Strike Fighters are loaded down with nukes too. And when a Russian Recon plane approaches it is warned and then shot down.

And this will be happening everywhere. The doomsday plan for England is simple. If Radio 2 stops broadcasting for two days the Ballistic Missile Submarines start launching.

Putin has to be smart enough to know that a nuke sends the world right to the brink. And nobody will back down. They can’t.

So the idiotic idea that NATO takes no action, is wishful thinking. At best. Delusional fantasy at worst.

The bare minimum would be a conventional attack on Russian Forces by NATO forces. Because the use of a Nuke means that Putin is a madman.

Putin would launch more nukes and World War III starts then.

Even if Biden doesn’t launch first. Someone would. And Biden would follow the crowd. That is what Mutually Assured Destruction insures. When one person launches. Everyone launches.

 

[kyzr]

I don't know what Putin is, but a lose-lose option was to begin the war. In the eyes of the Russians this war isn't between Russia and Ukraine, but between Russia and the US where Ukraine is used as a proxy. And Russian propaganda has been pushing for years that the current "Kiev regime' is an existential threat to Russia. The pretext of this war is to eliminate this threat.

This situation is similar with that with Iran. The Iranian regime can't abandon their nuclear policy and meddling in regional affairs, because they think it is of vital importance of their security. Here is the same. Russia can't abandon its policy in eliminating Ukraine, because it will be considered as a defeat of the ruling regime.

1. Iran is a bit different. If Iran gets a nuke and delivery missiles, the Sauds will want them too. Would they buy from the US or Russia? Israel's trigger finger might get too itchy to even let Iran get a real nuke. Iran's security isn't an issue. There is no Saddam who would invade them.

2. Russia has to abandon its policy of eliminating Zelensky's regime, because its a sovereign nation whose people are defending it amazingly well. Sooner or later Puti needs to face the music, he lost.

3. You may be right that the Russian people see the war as between Russia and the US with the Ukes as proxies. The Russian body bags and bad economy may show them that "those Ukrainian grapes are probably sour anyway".

 

[kyzr]

The line between Tactical and Strategic is an illusion. A nuke is a nuke. Period.

If a “Tactical” nuke goes off. Let’s be honest. World Wide Nuclear War launches within a couple days at the most.

First everyone with a Nuke goes to high alert. For America, that is DEFCON 2. Ballistic Missile Submarines get warning orders. The rules of engagement change to responding to hostile actions. And what those are can and will be misconstrued.

Bombers take off and hold at final hold points guarded by fighters. Russian fighters come up and an air battle ensues.

Navy Strike Fighters are loaded down with nukes too. And when a Russian Recon plane approaches it is warned and then shot down.

And this will be happening everywhere. The doomsday plan for England is simple. If Radio 2 stops broadcasting for two days the Ballistic Missile Submarines start launching.

Putin has to be smart enough to know that a nuke sends the world right to the brink. And nobody will back down. They can’t.

So the idiotic idea that NATO takes no action, is wishful thinking. At best. Delusional fantasy at worst.

The bare minimum would be a conventional attack on Russian Forces by NATO forces. Because the use of a Nuke means that Putin is a madman.

Putin would launch more nukes and World War III starts then.

Even if Biden doesn’t launch first. Someone would. And Biden would follow the crowd. That is what Mutually Assured Destruction insures. When one person launches. Everyone launches.

Doom and gloom? Probably right that once it starts its not going to stop. Which is why I think that Putin realizes that there is no winning once he uses a nuke....any nuke, even a tiny one.

 

[SavannahMann]

Doom and gloom? Probably right that once it starts its not going to stop. Which is why I think that Putin realizes that there is no winning once he uses a nuke....any nuke, even a tiny one.

The higher the alert level the thinner the margin for error.

DEFCON 3, Round House Or Yellow Alert Level

Defcon 3, - round house or yellow alert status level.

www.defconlevel.com

Currently we are at DEFCON 3. Officially that means the Air Force is on heightened alert. Ready to scramble within 15 minutes.

But what are they ready to scramble. Yes. Fighters to intercept incoming flights. But also nuclear armed bombers. The old B-52’s and other bombers. All loaded with nuclear warheads.

The armed forces are at heightened alert.

So let’s talk about those five levels. How can we picture or imagine them to better understand.

DEFCON 5. The pistol is in the holster. The safety is on. The safety or retention strap is snapped. Your hand is not on the gun.

DEFCON 4. Hand on the pistol. Safety on. Retention strap unsnapped. You are ready to pull. But the pistol is still in the holster.

DEFCON 3. Pistol out of the holster. Safety on. Thumb on safety switch. Pistol pointed at ground. Finger off trigger.

DEFCON 2. Pistol pointed at head of your opponent. Safety off. Finger off of trigger.

DEFCON 1. Finger on trigger. Shooting is imminent.

It is a set series of stages. Each one has a slimmer margin for error. Right now. The pistol is out of the holster and we are ready to bring it into play. We hope not to. But we are ready.

We can’t go back down right now. We can not put the pistol away. The opponent is threatening us with his gun. We have to be ready.

Now if Putin fires off one nuke. Even a little one. Every nuclear power goes to the equivalent of DEFCON 2. Everyone is pointing the pistol. And everyone is ready. And everyone is worried that if they aren’t first. They won’t get a chance.

Now imagine this scene with human men. And women. All shouting and threatening each other. All shouting at the others to put the gun down. All shouting and scared. All getting tired. The stress making each click of the clock seem to take longer. All enduring for hours.

They’ll be sleeping in bunkers. If they sleep. Hoping their bunkers are deep enough, strong enough to withstand a direct hit.

All the time their advisors are shouting we have to act before they do. If we do, we can catch them with their nukes in the ground. We can get them before they have a chance at a full launch. We can use our weapons for a quick strike.

Imagine the pressure. Knowing that every enemy Nuke you stop before it launches saves hundreds of thousands. Maybe even millions of lives. Lives of your citizens. Lives of your people.

Someone will launch. Someone will pull the trigger. We are human. We can’t handle that kind of stress for long. We can’t endure that sort of brinksmanship indefinitely. Someone will give the order. Someone will launch the nukes.

That is the situation we are in. Pistols out. Pointing at the ground. Safety on, but ready to be snapped off.

 

[Pellinore]

The higher the alert level the thinner the margin for error.

DEFCON 3, Round House Or Yellow Alert Level

Defcon 3, - round house or yellow alert status level.

www.defconlevel.com

Currently we are at DEFCON 3. Officially that means the Air Force is on heightened alert. Ready to scramble within 15 minutes.

But what are they ready to scramble. Yes. Fighters to intercept incoming flights. But also nuclear armed bombers. The old B-52’s and other bombers. All loaded with nuclear warheads.

The armed forces are at heightened alert.

So let’s talk about those five levels. How can we picture or imagine them to better understand.

DEFCON 5. The pistol is in the holster. The safety is on. The safety or retention strap is snapped. Your hand is not on the gun.

DEFCON 4. Hand on the pistol. Safety on. Retention strap unsnapped. You are ready to pull. But the pistol is still in the holster.

DEFCON 3. Pistol out of the holster. Safety on. Thumb on safety switch. Pistol pointed at ground. Finger off trigger.

DEFCON 2. Pistol pointed at head of your opponent. Safety off. Finger off of trigger.

DEFCON 1. Finger on trigger. Shooting is imminent.

It is a set series of stages. Each one has a slimmer margin for error. Right now. The pistol is out of the holster and we are ready to bring it into play. We hope not to. But we are ready.

We can’t go back down right now. We can not put the pistol away. The opponent is threatening us with his gun. We have to be ready.

Now if Putin fires off one nuke. Even a little one. Every nuclear power goes to the equivalent of DEFCON 2. Everyone is pointing the pistol. And everyone is ready. And everyone is worried that if they aren’t first. They won’t get a chance.

Now imagine this scene with human men. And women. All shouting and threatening each other. All shouting at the others to put the gun down. All shouting and scared. All getting tired. The stress making each click of the clock seem to take longer. All enduring for hours.

They’ll be sleeping in bunkers. If they sleep. Hoping their bunkers are deep enough, strong enough to withstand a direct hit.

All the time their advisors are shouting we have to act before they do. If we do, we can catch them with their nukes in the ground. We can get them before they have a chance at a full launch. We can use our weapons for a quick strike.

Imagine the pressure. Knowing that every enemy Nuke you stop before it launches saves hundreds of thousands. Maybe even millions of lives. Lives of your citizens. Lives of your people.

Someone will launch. Someone will pull the trigger. We are human. We can’t handle that kind of stress for long. We can’t endure that sort of brinksmanship indefinitely. Someone will give the order. Someone will launch the nukes.

That is the situation we are in. Pistols out. Pointing at the ground. Safety on, but ready to be snapped off.

The "good" news is that we were as high as DEFCON 2 during the Cuban Missile Crisis, so it is at least possible that a situation can calm down from that.

 

[Batcat]

Using a ICBM or any form of Nuclear device would cause this.

I truly believe his reasoning to go after the reactors was to get them and use them as a threat…

Perhaps if Putin is as seriously ill as some rumors suggest, he has decided to go out with a big bang.

 

[SavannahMann]

The "good" news is that we were as high as DEFCON 2 during the Cuban Missile Crisis, so it is at least possible that a situation can calm down from that.

Well if we went through the Cuban Missile Crisis today, the nukes would fly.

First. We don’t have Kennedy and Khrushchev in charge. We have Biden and Putin.

Second. The crisis was managed with a secret back room deal that didn’t make the press for years. Today such deals would be secret for about eight minutes before Twitter had a million threads going.

I could give other reasons. But for now. Let’s just agree that the Cuban Missile Crisis today, would result in nuclear war.

 

[ESay]

1. Iran is a bit different. If Iran gets a nuke and delivery missiles, the Sauds will want them too. Would they buy from the US or Russia? Israel's trigger finger might get too itchy to even let Iran get a real nuke. Iran's security isn't an issue. There is no Saddam who would invade them.

2. Russia has to abandon its policy of eliminating Zelensky's regime, because its a sovereign nation whose people are defending it amazingly well. Sooner or later Puti needs to face the music, he lost.

3. You may be right that the Russian people see the war as between Russia and the US with the Ukes as proxies. The Russian body bags and bad economy may show them that "those Ukrainian grapes are probably sour anyway".

1. Iranian nuclear program has become an idea fix for the Iranian regime. They see it as a vital part of Iran's security. Similar is with the Russian regime. Securing Ukraine in their sphere of influence is seen as a vital point of Russia's security.

I didn't try to justify the Iranian program or something like that. I tried, with an example with Iran, to point out that the Putin's regime also has their idea fix and they pursue that not matter what happens.

2. The main Putin's demand was 'denazification' of Ukraine. With this he wanted to eliminate the current Ukrainian government (not necessarily physically) and impose a puppet regime. He didn't manage to do this because his blitzkrieg on Kiev failed.

Whether there will be a second try, who knows. There are various estimates.

3. What Russian population thinks is of little significance. State propaganda and 'law enforcement' forces will do their job.

 

[Silver Cat]

The higher the alert level the thinner the margin for error.

DEFCON 3, Round House Or Yellow Alert Level

Defcon 3, - round house or yellow alert status level.

www.defconlevel.com

Currently we are at DEFCON 3. Officially that means the Air Force is on heightened alert. Ready to scramble within 15 minutes.

But what are they ready to scramble. Yes. Fighters to intercept incoming flights. But also nuclear armed bombers. The old B-52’s and other bombers. All loaded with nuclear warheads.

The armed forces are at heightened alert.

So let’s talk about those five levels. How can we picture or imagine them to better understand.

DEFCON 5. The pistol is in the holster. The safety is on. The safety or retention strap is snapped. Your hand is not on the gun.

DEFCON 4. Hand on the pistol. Safety on. Retention strap unsnapped. You are ready to pull. But the pistol is still in the holster.

DEFCON 3. Pistol out of the holster. Safety on. Thumb on safety switch. Pistol pointed at ground. Finger off trigger.

DEFCON 2. Pistol pointed at head of your opponent. Safety off. Finger off of trigger.

DEFCON 1. Finger on trigger. Shooting is imminent.

It is a set series of stages. Each one has a slimmer margin for error. Right now. The pistol is out of the holster and we are ready to bring it into play. We hope not to. But we are ready.

We can’t go back down right now. We can not put the pistol away. The opponent is threatening us with his gun. We have to be ready.

Now if Putin fires off one nuke. Even a little one. Every nuclear power goes to the equivalent of DEFCON 2. Everyone is pointing the pistol. And everyone is ready. And everyone is worried that if they aren’t first. They won’t get a chance.

Now imagine this scene with human men. And women. All shouting and threatening each other. All shouting at the others to put the gun down. All shouting and scared. All getting tired. The stress making each click of the clock seem to take longer. All enduring for hours.

They’ll be sleeping in bunkers. If they sleep. Hoping their bunkers are deep enough, strong enough to withstand a direct hit.

All the time their advisors are shouting we have to act before they do. If we do, we can catch them with their nukes in the ground. We can get them before they have a chance at a full launch. We can use our weapons for a quick strike.

Imagine the pressure. Knowing that every enemy Nuke you stop before it launches saves hundreds of thousands. Maybe even millions of lives. Lives of your citizens. Lives of your people.

Someone will launch. Someone will pull the trigger. We are human. We can’t handle that kind of stress for long. We can’t endure that sort of brinksmanship indefinitely. Someone will give the order. Someone will launch the nukes.

That is the situation we are in. Pistols out. Pointing at the ground. Safety on, but ready to be snapped off.

The problem is if you have your hand on the gun in the holster, but your vis-a-vis has his pistol already out of his holster, pointed at your hand or head. The situation becomes even more ugly, if he is wearing helmet and bodyarmor and you are not, he has medi-kit to heal his wounds and you have not. Yes, you still have a chance to kill him, he knows it, but it is not MAD anymore. The game becomes winnable and you both know it. It's a pretty different position for the negotiations.

 

[eagle1462010]

The problem is if you have your hand on the gun in the holster, but your vis-a-vis has his pistol already out of his holster, pointed at your hand or head. The situation becomes even more ugly, if he is wearing helmet and bodyarmor and you are not, he has medi-kit to heal his wounds and you have not. Yes, you still have a chance to kill him, he knows it, but it is not MAD anymore. The game becomes winnable and you both know it. It's a pretty different position for the negotiations.

Anyone who thinks a nuclear War is winnable............is a Freaking Idiot.

 

[Silver Cat]

Anyone who thinks a nuclear War is winnable............is a Freaking Idiot.

Really? Nuclear war is possible because it is winnable.

Nuclear war with China or Russia a 'real possibility,' STRATCOM commander warns

The head of U.S. Strategic Command is calling for reimagining methods of deterring aggressive action from rivals such as China and Russia, including the "real possibility" of nuclear war.

www.foxnews.com

 

[petro]

Really? Nuclear war is possible because it is winnable.

Nuclear war with China or Russia a 'real possibility,' STRATCOM commander warns

The head of U.S. Strategic Command is calling for reimagining methods of deterring aggressive action from rivals such as China and Russia, including the "real possibility" of nuclear war.

www.foxnews.com

Nothing in that link talks about a nuclear war being winnable.
Only that it is a possibility.
Fucking insanity no matter how you look at it.

Regardless, the constant talk by our media about it is stupid reckless fear mongering.

Ukraine isn't worth it.

 

[SavannahMann]

Anyone who thinks a nuclear War is winnable............is a Freaking Idiot.

You see it this way. And I admit there is some validity to your argument. But let’s imagine it as Military Theoreticians will.

Imagine it this way. You are in a fist fight. You are going to get hit. You are going to take some hits. The person who will win is the one who takes the least damage.

You see it as if you take one hit. One nuke. You have lost. They see it as calculable casualties. And as long as we suffer fewer than they do. It is possible to win.

This is where the theories on tactical versus strategic come into play. You can drop a small Nuke on a base. You may not destroy the entire base. But you deny the resources there because of radiation.

The same would happen at any road or rail hub. You deny the location to the enemy.

The psychological effect can’t be ignored either. The idea that an enemy who is nukes would be demoralized.

 

[JimH52]

Pootin is an evil man, whos i probably fighting a life ending disease. But he is not crazy enough, yet, to launch a nuclear attack on Ukraine or anyone. Because he will be signing a death warrant for himself and millions of Russians. There better be someone in the Kremlin that will talk this guy down.