not understanding the voter ID issue...

[Peach]

If--and I do say IF--you are a dishonest Democrat of COURSE you want more votes, not less. But responsible citizens want more RESPONSIBLE people to vote, not just more votes. And again, if you don't read or pay attention to what's going on, I simply don't have the time or inclination to educate you on were voter fraud is an issue or why the Democrats are fighting tooth and nail to make it much easier to commit voter fraud.

I want all ELIGIBLE Americans to vote(.)

and you define that eligibility, how?

Age 18, US citizen, and allowed under state law. Laws vary on restoration of felons' rights.

 

[gallantwarrior]

But currently people are voting for weeks ahead of the election at all sorts of places, and if they happen to not be on the roster, they are allowed to vote anyway. There is far too much opportunity to vote twice, to vote under assumed names, to shift whole voting blocks to a different precinct to ensure the election of some favored somebody, to vote for the dead, etc. etc. etc. UNLESS some effort is made to verify the identiy of the person voting.

If the 'old folks' can produce the necessary identification to sign up for their social security checks, to establish membership at the Senior Citizens center, or even get into the local courthouse, it is not an imposition for them to provide the same identification to vote.

Voting is a RIGHT, not a privilege. As long as affidavits are AVAILABLE, it should not be a large problem. But I had to cast a PROVISIONAL ballot in 2002 because my photo ID address differed from the roll address. WHY SHOULD ANYONE JUMP THROUGH HOOPS to exercise a RIGHT?

Because your rights come with reponsibility and your rights do not trump anybody else's right to a fair and honest election. If we went back to the old system, the waiting period between registration and election day was to allow you do deal with the very issue of a vhanged address. It gave you time to produce proof of your current address and get it changed on the roll. And it was expected that it was the duty of every citizen who expected to vote to be able to do so. If there wasn't time to get the address changed, then you would have to go back to your old precinct to vote however unhandy that might be. It underscored the serious obligation involved in casting your vote as a U.S. citizen.

The right to vote is a right so long as reasonable rules and regulations to ensure an honest vgte are followed. It should never be denied to any citizen who is willing to follow reasonable rules and regulation. It should not be a right to sidestep them.

It is impossible for some people to understand that with rights comes responsibilities.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Like ILLEGAL immigrants are rushing to polling places lined with police!

Illegals vote in droves in California. The ONLY police, are those there to vote.

There is ONE, and ONLY ONE reason to oppose voter ID, because you support election fraud.

Most democrats do.

 

[Peach]

Like ILLEGAL immigrants are rushing to polling places lined with police!

Illegals vote in droves in California. The ONLY police, are those there to vote.

There is ONE, and ONLY ONE reason to oppose voter ID, because you support election fraud.

Most democrats do.

Florida differs, police at polling places, NO DMV in my town. The registrar could issue the ID's, that should help, as does extended voting.

 

[kaz]

Like ILLEGAL immigrants are rushing to polling places lined with police!

Illegals vote in droves in California. The ONLY police, are those there to vote.

There is ONE, and ONLY ONE reason to oppose voter ID, because you support election fraud.

Most democrats do.

Yes, that is the only reason. Democrats know it too.

 

[gallantwarrior]

Because your rights come with reponsibility and your rights do not trump anybody elese's right to a fair and honest election. If we went back to the old system, the waiting period between registration and election day was to allow you do deal with the very issue of a vhanged address. It gave you time to produce proof of your current address and get it changed on the roll. And it was expected that it was the duty of every citizen who expected to vote to be able to do so.

The right to vote is a right so long as reasonable rules and regulations to ensure an honest vogte are followed. It should never be denied to any citizen who is willing to follow reasonable rules and regulation. It should not be a right to sidestep them.

Rules & regulations: SHOW ME YOUR PAPERS! I knew of a disabled woman, MY MOTHER, who had no photo ID, and a friend with a suspended license. WHY should VOTING be a task? Those masses of illegal voters exist only in the minds of those who want to suppress our foremost right, the RIGHT to vote.

Then why haven't you taken her down to the DMV to get a photo ID? It costs a few bucks, and then she has it. A photo ID does not have to be a driver's license. Or if you aren't willing to do that for her, I know at least a half dozen organization who would buy it for her just so that she would be eligible to vote. If she is too disabled to do that, then she is likely too disabled to go vote either so the issue is MOOT. Agreed? Unless you want to be able to go vote for her which you probably could do if you aren't required to show I.D.

Nobody can do much of anything in this country anymore without some means of identifying ourselves and proving we are who we are. Those incapable of identifying themselves are almost certainly not citizens of the USA and/or are people with the mental capacity to vote.

Of course there are folks who want such people to have EVERY opportunity to vote as that is the only way they can hope to be elected or re-elected to office.

That would be a question I would pose. How does she get to the polling place, if she's disabled? Oh, wait, someone probably ensures that her absentee ballot is cast. Nevermind. Otherwise, whoever chauffeurs Mom to cast her vote might consider assisting her to acquire appropriate ID.

 

[gallantwarrior]

Rules & regulations: SHOW ME YOUR PAPERS! I knew of a disabled woman, MY MOTHER, who had no photo ID, and a friend with a suspended license. WHY should VOTING be a task? Those masses of illegal voters exist only in the minds of those who want to suppress our foremost right, the RIGHT to vote.

Then why haven't you taken her down to the DMV to get a photo ID? It costs a few bucks, and then she has it. A photo ID does not have to be a driver's license. Or if you aren't willing to do that for her, I know at least a half dozen organization who would buy it for her just so that she would be eligible to vote. If she is too disabled to do that, then she is likely too disabled to go vote either so the issue is MOOT. Agreed? Unless you want to be able to go vote for her which you probably could do if you aren't required to show I.D.

Nobody can do much of anything in this country anymore without some means of identifying ourselves and proving we are who we are. Those incapable of identifying themselves are almost certainly not citizens of the USA and/or are people with the mental capacity to vote.

Of course there are folks who want such people to have EVERY opportunity to vote as that is the only way they can hope to be elected or re-elected to office.

She is deceased, DMV did not offer photo ID at the time of her death, except for DL's. MY VALID DL was rejected in 2002. Again, where is this mass of voter fraud? The problem is too many choose NOT to vote, not too many people voting.

You hit the nail on the head, many people choose not to vote. That's their choice. If they choose not to comply with regulations, that's their choice, too. Non-compliance has its consequences.

 

[Peach]

Rules & regulations: SHOW ME YOUR PAPERS! I knew of a disabled woman, MY MOTHER, who had no photo ID, and a friend with a suspended license. WHY should VOTING be a task? Those masses of illegal voters exist only in the minds of those who want to suppress our foremost right, the RIGHT to vote.

Then why haven't you taken her down to the DMV to get a photo ID? It costs a few bucks, and then she has it. A photo ID does not have to be a driver's license. Or if you aren't willing to do that for her, I know at least a half dozen organization who would buy it for her just so that she would be eligible to vote. If she is too disabled to do that, then she is likely too disabled to go vote either so the issue is MOOT. Agreed? Unless you want to be able to go vote for her which you probably could do if you aren't required to show I.D.

Nobody can do much of anything in this country anymore without some means of identifying ourselves and proving we are who we are. Those incapable of identifying themselves are almost certainly not citizens of the USA and/or are people with the mental capacity to vote.

Of course there are folks who want such people to have EVERY opportunity to vote as that is the only way they can hope to be elected or re-elected to office.

That would be a question I would pose. How does she get to the polling place, if she's disabled? Oh, wait, someone probably ensures that her absentee ballot is cast. Nevermind. Otherwise, whoever chauffeurs Mom to cast her vote might consider assisting her to acquire appropriate ID.

Family drove her. As for 2002, I did not know the two addresses were different; a corner house, some termed it X street, others, Y avenue.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Florida differs, police at polling places,

Is that infringing on the rights of King Shabazz?

NO DMV in my town.

No one drives in your town, no internet or autoclub either...

The registrar could issue the ID's, that should help, as does extended voting.

There is one and only one reason to oppose voter ID - the desire for election fraud.

Fraud is a big part of the democrats election strategy.

 

[gallantwarrior]

The DMV has offered photo ID certainly since voter registration laws have been relaxed and voting has become the mishmash of lenient systems that it has come. When the rules and regs were much tigher and did require people who wanted to vote to take the responsibility to make themselves eliginble to do so, voter fraud was not so much of a problem. It still happened but not in huge swarms as it can happen now in tight elections.

If you aren't aware of the voter fraud issues in this country, I don't have time to infomr you here. I suggest that you read up on the tactics, the problems with double registration and how that is used to swing tight elections in certain precincts, etc. etc. etc. I myself have witnessed the disvcovery of a dead person voting when somebody noted a name that was signed in that shouldn't have been. That was when no Photo ID was required. No reports of that happening once Photo ID was required.

Again, why would you object to insurance that elections are fair and impartial? Are you one of the folks who really does want to rig elections? I honestly can't think of any reason to not ensure the honesty of elections other than wanting opportunity for dishonest elections.

I want MORE votes, not less. And I have not heard of voter fraud in my area, only rigid rules that almost kept ME from voting. Where is voter fraud an issue?

If--and I do say IF--you are a dishonest Democrat of COURSE you want more votes, not less. But responsible citizens want more RESPONSIBLE people to vote, not just more votes. And again, if you don't read or pay attention to what's going on, I simply don't have the time or inclination to educate you on were voter fraud is an issue or why the Democrats are fighting tooth and nail to make it much easier to commit voter fraud.

I would think that honest people on both sides of the aisle would demand fair elections and positive identification of those casting votes. Both sides accuse the other of voter fraud. That is why it is so suspicious that, while one side wishes identification of voters be codified, the other side complains and constantly offers anecdotal evidence why positive identification measure should not be implemented.

 

[gallantwarrior]

I want MORE votes, not less. And I have not heard of voter fraud in my area, only rigid rules that almost kept ME from voting. Where is voter fraud an issue?

If--and I do say IF--you are a dishonest Democrat of COURSE you want more votes, not less. But responsible citizens want more RESPONSIBLE people to vote, not just more votes. And again, if you don't read or pay attention to what's going on, I simply don't have the time or inclination to educate you on were voter fraud is an issue or why the Democrats are fighting tooth and nail to make it much easier to commit voter fraud.

I want all ELIGIBLE Americans to vote(.)

Just how do you suggest we differentiate those eligible and those who are not?

 

[Uncensored2008]

I would think that honest people on both sides of the aisle would demand fair elections and positive identification of those casting votes. Both sides accuse the other of voter fraud. That is why it is so suspicious that, while one side wishes identification of voters be codified, the other side complains and constantly offers anecdotal evidence why positive identification measure should not be implemented.

Democrats don't want fair and honest elections, they want to win.

Fraud is a long standing part of democrats campaign.

 

[Peach]

I want MORE votes, not less. And I have not heard of voter fraud in my area, only rigid rules that almost kept ME from voting. Where is voter fraud an issue?

If--and I do say IF--you are a dishonest Democrat of COURSE you want more votes, not less. But responsible citizens want more RESPONSIBLE people to vote, not just more votes. And again, if you don't read or pay attention to what's going on, I simply don't have the time or inclination to educate you on were voter fraud is an issue or why the Democrats are fighting tooth and nail to make it much easier to commit voter fraud.

I would think that honest people on both sides of the aisle would demand fair elections and positive identification of those casting votes. Both sides accuse the other of voter fraud. That is why it is so suspicious that, while one side wishes identification of voters be codified, the other side complains and constantly offers anecdotal evidence why positive identification measure should not be implemented.

AFFIDAVITS at precincts, AND ID supplied at registration would help; I misplace my DL once every few months. I gather no other poster does.

 

[Uncensored2008]

AFFIDAVITS at precincts, AND ID supplied at registration would help; I misplace my DL once every few months. I gather no other poster does.

I assume the affidavits should be in Spanish?

 

[gallantwarrior]

How can they not have an ID? Good question. Let us say that the person in question is a destitute single parent, make it a woman. Now let's put her downtown in a big city, one with a crummy public transportation system. So she hasn't got any money, hasn't got a car, and if there was a bus she couldn't afford to pay a babysitter while she took the half a day to go get the ID - whioch is what it would take at a minumum if public transportation has to be involved. Then let the state's DMV handle the ID issuing and put all of the DMV offices way out in the suburbs. In fact while you are at it close a couple of them, and concentrate the closings in areas that are heavily populated by Democrats. That is how its being done right this minute in Wisconsin. So now you know.[/QUO

I would suggest she get to the DMV the same way she gets to the voting booth. I mean if voting is so important to her and all......

I would agree with that, let there be places where the required voter ID is available in every voting precinct and I have no problem at all with the requirement. But the thing is that there are one hell of a lot more voting precincts than there are places to get the Id. So while our lady could, in just about any city in the country, easily walk to the voting place which would likely be within blocks of her, the same can not be said for Id issuing authorities. I believe that I've read that in one of the northern great-lakes area states there are actually only three places in the entire state where ID can be obtained. There were more before the law but the Governor of that state saw fit to close the ones in heavily democratic areas. It is just one more way those filthy bastards have found to corrupt our nation.

Honestly, if the "lady" in question was too lazy to work, too lazy to obtain ID, do you really think she'd be motivated to walk to the polling location?

 

[Uncensored2008]

Honestly, if the "lady" in question was too lazy to work, too lazy to obtain ID, do you really think she'd be motivated to walk to the polling location?

For a rock of cocaine for every vote cast for Obama? Damn right she'll be motivated.

 

[kaz]

Honestly, if the "lady" in question was too lazy to work, too lazy to obtain ID, do you really think she'd be motivated to walk to the polling location?

Oh, she'd walk thirty miles through the blinding snow with newspapers on her feet for shoes with a baby on her back and under each arm to vote. It's just the working and getting an ID she was too lazy to do...

 

[Uncensored2008]

Asking democrats not to engage in fraud in an election is like asking a Marine not to use his rifle in a war.

Voter ID takes away the main weapon of the democrats, fraud.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

So with the voter ID issue, its being claimed that poor/miniorities will be "disenfranchised" and prevented from voting since they some how get through life without an ID...

First off, how do you get through life without a driver's license --- driving, getting services many places, buying alcohol, etc all require it.

However difficult to imagine, there are people who have no driver’s license, they obviously do not drive, they rely on public transportation, family, friends.

But that’s not the issue.

The issue is there is no evidence that ‘fraud’ via ID is of such a scale as to have altered the outcome of any election, consequently there is nothing to justify an ID requirement; indeed, research has determined that ‘fraud’ via ID is virtually non-existent:

The "voter fraud" cry has been increasingly used to justify policies that suppress legitimate voters. But the cry is baseless; allegations of voter fraud—especially polling place impersonation fraud—almost always prove to be inflated or inaccurate. The Brennan Center carefully examines allegations of fraud to get at the truth behind the claims. The truth of the matter is that voter fraud—votes knowingly cast by ineligible individuals—is exceedingly rare; one is more likely to be struck by lightning than to commit voter fraud.

Allegations of Voter Fraud | Brennan Center for Justice

Also, people are comparing it to a poll tax as you have to pay for the ID, but honestly the IDs are under $10 and if you are so poor you cant afford $10 every 4 years to renew a license then you likely are on government subsidised living, which requires ID to get the associated service.

One is not required to provide a photo ID to apply for public assistance, only a SSN which is verified via Numident.

Otherwise, remember that voting is a fundamental right, it is often afforded a higher standard of judicial review, and the burden is greater on government to limit that right. Therefore, any inappropriate limitation of that right, however inadvertent or well-intentioned, is anathema to our most basic principles of a representative democracy.

I honestly just don't understand the oppisition.

Review the information in the link above, consider it in the context of a fundamental right, the lack of evidence in support of ID laws, and the possibility of unwarranted restriction of that fundamental right.

 

[inALIENable]

Voter ID laws are being put on the books around the country, in states with Republican administrations, for just one purpose. They are there to discourage the poor and otherwise disadvantaged from voting, to make it harder to them to have their voice in society. . ..

This the dumbest thing I've heard so far this week. Did you mistype or are you trying to bullshit us or make a funny?

How does having an ID make anything harder? I would think NOT having an ID would make everything in life harder and would result in a lot of discouragement (can't cash checks, can't travel, can't obtain housing, can't get job, etc.).

Who are you trying to fool, the stupid people?