not understanding the voter ID issue...

[Peach]

Because your rights come with reponsibility and your rights do not trump anybody elese's right to a fair and honest election. If we went back to the old system, the waiting period between registration and election day was to allow you do deal with the very issue of a vhanged address. It gave you time to produce proof of your current address and get it changed on the roll. And it was expected that it was the duty of every citizen who expected to vote to be able to do so.

The right to vote is a right so long as reasonable rules and regulations to ensure an honest vogte are followed. It should never be denied to any citizen who is willing to follow reasonable rules and regulation. It should not be a right to sidestep them.

Rules & regulations: SHOW ME YOUR PAPERS! I knew of a disabled woman, MY MOTHER, who had no photo ID, and a friend with a suspended license. WHY should VOTING be a task? Those masses of illegal voters exist only in the minds of those who want to suppress our foremost right, the RIGHT to vote.

I don't know, last week a guy was offered Eric Holders ballot at a polling place and, he wasn't Eric Holder, he didn't look like him etc etc ....and see my post above....

Poorly trained poll workers are a problem that may take money to correct; many states are on tight budgets. But my experience was in a small county, if "voter ID" is available at the registrar's office it might lessen the chance of denial of valid votes.

 

[Foxfyre]

Voting is a RIGHT, not a privilege. As long as affidavits are AVAILABLE, it should not be a large problem. But I had to cast a PROVISIONAL ballot in 2002 because my photo ID address differed from the roll address. WHY SHOULD ANYONE JUMP THROUGH HOOPS to exercise a RIGHT?

Because your rights come with reponsibility and your rights do not trump anybody elese's right to a fair and honest election. If we went back to the old system, the waiting period between registration and election day was to allow you do deal with the very issue of a vhanged address. It gave you time to produce proof of your current address and get it changed on the roll. And it was expected that it was the duty of every citizen who expected to vote to be able to do so.

The right to vote is a right so long as reasonable rules and regulations to ensure an honest vogte are followed. It should never be denied to any citizen who is willing to follow reasonable rules and regulation. It should not be a right to sidestep them.

Rules & regulations: SHOW ME YOUR PAPERS! I knew of a disabled woman, MY MOTHER, who had no photo ID, and a friend with a suspended license. WHY should VOTING be a task? Those masses of illegal voters exist only in the minds of those who want to suppress our foremost right, the RIGHT to vote.

Then why haven't you taken her down to the DMV to get a photo ID? It costs a few bucks, and then she has it. A photo ID does not have to be a driver's license. Or if you aren't willing to do that for her, I know at least a half dozen organization who would buy it for her just so that she would be eligible to vote. If she is too disabled to do that, then she is likely too disabled to go vote either so the issue is MOOT. Agreed? Unless you want to be able to go vote for her which you probably could do if you aren't required to show I.D.

Nobody can do much of anything in this country anymore without some means of identifying ourselves and proving we are who we are. Those incapable of identifying themselves are almost certainly not citizens of the USA and/or are people with the mental capacity to vote.

Of course there are folks who want such people to have EVERY opportunity to vote as that is the only way they can hope to be elected or re-elected to office.

 

[Peach]

Because your rights come with reponsibility and your rights do not trump anybody elese's right to a fair and honest election. If we went back to the old system, the waiting period between registration and election day was to allow you do deal with the very issue of a vhanged address. It gave you time to produce proof of your current address and get it changed on the roll. And it was expected that it was the duty of every citizen who expected to vote to be able to do so.

The right to vote is a right so long as reasonable rules and regulations to ensure an honest vogte are followed. It should never be denied to any citizen who is willing to follow reasonable rules and regulation. It should not be a right to sidestep them.

Rules & regulations: SHOW ME YOUR PAPERS! I knew of a disabled woman, MY MOTHER, who had no photo ID, and a friend with a suspended license. WHY should VOTING be a task? Those masses of illegal voters exist only in the minds of those who want to suppress our foremost right, the RIGHT to vote.

Then why haven't you taken her down to the DMV to get a photo ID? It costs a few bucks, and then she has it. A photo ID does not have to be a driver's license. Or if you aren't willing to do that for her, I know at least a half dozen organization who would buy it for her just so that she would be eligible to vote. If she is too disabled to do that, then she is likely too disabled to go vote either so the issue is MOOT. Agreed? Unless you want to be able to go vote for her which you probably could do if you aren't required to show I.D.

Nobody can do much of anything in this country anymore without some means of identifying ourselves and proving we are who we are. Those incapable of identifying themselves are almost certainly not citizens of the USA and/or are people with the mental capacity to vote.

Of course there are folks who want such people to have EVERY opportunity to vote as that is the only way they can hope to be elected or re-elected to office.

She is deceased, DMV did not offer photo ID at the time of her death, except for DL's. MY VALID DL was rejected in 2002. Again, where is this mass of voter fraud? The problem is too many choose NOT to vote, not too many people voting.

 

[Foxfyre]

Rules & regulations: SHOW ME YOUR PAPERS! I knew of a disabled woman, MY MOTHER, who had no photo ID, and a friend with a suspended license. WHY should VOTING be a task? Those masses of illegal voters exist only in the minds of those who want to suppress our foremost right, the RIGHT to vote.

Then why haven't you taken her down to the DMV to get a photo ID? It costs a few bucks, and then she has it. A photo ID does not have to be a driver's license. Or if you aren't willing to do that for her, I know at least a half dozen organization who would buy it for her just so that she would be eligible to vote. If she is too disabled to do that, then she is likely too disabled to go vote either so the issue is MOOT. Agreed? Unless you want to be able to go vote for her which you probably could do if you aren't required to show I.D.

Nobody can do much of anything in this country anymore without some means of identifying ourselves and proving we are who we are. Those incapable of identifying themselves are almost certainly not citizens of the USA and/or are people with the mental capacity to vote.

Of course there are folks who want such people to have EVERY opportunity to vote as that is the only way they can hope to be elected or re-elected to office.

She is deceased, DMV did not offer photo ID at the time of her death, except for DL's. MY VALID DL was rejected in 2002. Again, where is this mass of voter fraud? The problem is too many choose NOT to vote, not too many people voting.

The DMV has offered photo ID certainly since voter registration laws have been relaxed and voting has become the mishmash of lenient systems that it has come. When the rules and regs were much tigher and did require people who wanted to vote to take the responsibility to make themselves eliginble to do so, voter fraud was not so much of a problem. It still happened but not in huge swarms as it can happen now in tight elections.

If you aren't aware of the voter fraud issues in this country, I don't have time to infomr you here. I suggest that you read up on the tactics, the problems with double registration and how that is used to swing tight elections in certain precincts, etc. etc. etc. I myself have witnessed the disvcovery of a dead person voting when somebody noted a name that was signed in that shouldn't have been. That was when no Photo ID was required. No reports of that happening once Photo ID was required.

Again, why would you object to insurance that elections are fair and impartial? Are you one of the folks who really does want to rig elections? I honestly can't think of any reason to not ensure the honesty of elections other than wanting opportunity for dishonest elections.

 

[kaz]

I would suggest she get to the DMV the same way she gets to the voting booth. I mean if voting is so important to her and all......

Actually she still probably has an ID because most states offer them for free and without it she can't do a whole heck of a lot of things she would need to be able to do if she has her own place to live and kids. And she's not going to vote. Democrats know it's Democrats who commit by far the most fraud, that's why they fight this tooth and nail.

 

[Peach]

Then why haven't you taken her down to the DMV to get a photo ID? It costs a few bucks, and then she has it. A photo ID does not have to be a driver's license. Or if you aren't willing to do that for her, I know at least a half dozen organization who would buy it for her just so that she would be eligible to vote. If she is too disabled to do that, then she is likely too disabled to go vote either so the issue is MOOT. Agreed? Unless you want to be able to go vote for her which you probably could do if you aren't required to show I.D.

Nobody can do much of anything in this country anymore without some means of identifying ourselves and proving we are who we are. Those incapable of identifying themselves are almost certainly not citizens of the USA and/or are people with the mental capacity to vote.

Of course there are folks who want such people to have EVERY opportunity to vote as that is the only way they can hope to be elected or re-elected to office.

She is deceased, DMV did not offer photo ID at the time of her death, except for DL's. MY VALID DL was rejected in 2002. Again, where is this mass of voter fraud? The problem is too many choose NOT to vote, not too many people voting.

The DMV has offered photo ID certainly since voter registration laws have been relaxed and voting has become the mishmash of lenient systems that it has come. When the rules and regs were much tigher and did require people who wanted to vote to take the responsibility to make themselves eliginble to do so, voter fraud was not so much of a problem. It still happened but not in huge swarms as it can happen now in tight elections.

If you aren't aware of the voter fraud issues in this country, I don't have time to infomr you here. I suggest that you read up on the tactics, the problems with double registration and how that is used to swing tight elections in certain precincts, etc. etc. etc. I myself have witnessed the disvcovery of a dead person voting when somebody noted a name that was signed in that shouldn't have been. That was when no Photo ID was required. No reports of that happening once Photo ID was required.

Again, why would you object to insurance that elections are fair and impartial? Are you one of the folks who really does want to rig elections? I honestly can't think of any reason to not ensure the honesty of elections other than wanting opportunity for dishonest elections.

I want MORE votes, not less. And I have not heard of voter fraud in my area, only rigid rules that almost kept ME from voting. Where is voter fraud an issue?

 

[Foxfyre]

She is deceased, DMV did not offer photo ID at the time of her death, except for DL's. MY VALID DL was rejected in 2002. Again, where is this mass of voter fraud? The problem is too many choose NOT to vote, not too many people voting.

The DMV has offered photo ID certainly since voter registration laws have been relaxed and voting has become the mishmash of lenient systems that it has come. When the rules and regs were much tigher and did require people who wanted to vote to take the responsibility to make themselves eliginble to do so, voter fraud was not so much of a problem. It still happened but not in huge swarms as it can happen now in tight elections.

If you aren't aware of the voter fraud issues in this country, I don't have time to infomr you here. I suggest that you read up on the tactics, the problems with double registration and how that is used to swing tight elections in certain precincts, etc. etc. etc. I myself have witnessed the disvcovery of a dead person voting when somebody noted a name that was signed in that shouldn't have been. That was when no Photo ID was required. No reports of that happening once Photo ID was required.

Again, why would you object to insurance that elections are fair and impartial? Are you one of the folks who really does want to rig elections? I honestly can't think of any reason to not ensure the honesty of elections other than wanting opportunity for dishonest elections.

I want MORE votes, not less. And I have not heard of voter fraud in my area, only rigid rules that almost kept ME from voting. Where is voter fraud an issue?

If--and I do say IF--you are a dishonest Democrat of COURSE you want more votes, not less. But responsible citizens want more RESPONSIBLE people to vote, not just more votes. And again, if you don't read or pay attention to what's going on, I simply don't have the time or inclination to educate you on were voter fraud is an issue or why the Democrats are fighting tooth and nail to make it much easier to commit voter fraud.

 

[UpAndAbout]

She is deceased, DMV did not offer photo ID at the time of her death, except for DL's. MY VALID DL was rejected in 2002. Again, where is this mass of voter fraud? The problem is too many choose NOT to vote, not too many people voting.

The DMV has offered photo ID certainly since voter registration laws have been relaxed and voting has become the mishmash of lenient systems that it has come. When the rules and regs were much tigher and did require people who wanted to vote to take the responsibility to make themselves eliginble to do so, voter fraud was not so much of a problem. It still happened but not in huge swarms as it can happen now in tight elections.

If you aren't aware of the voter fraud issues in this country, I don't have time to infomr you here. I suggest that you read up on the tactics, the problems with double registration and how that is used to swing tight elections in certain precincts, etc. etc. etc. I myself have witnessed the disvcovery of a dead person voting when somebody noted a name that was signed in that shouldn't have been. That was when no Photo ID was required. No reports of that happening once Photo ID was required.

Again, why would you object to insurance that elections are fair and impartial? Are you one of the folks who really does want to rig elections? I honestly can't think of any reason to not ensure the honesty of elections other than wanting opportunity for dishonest elections.

I want MORE votes, not less. And I have not heard of voter fraud in my area, only rigid rules that almost kept ME from voting. Where is voter fraud an issue?

What "rigid rules" kept you from voting? Requiring you to be a resident of the county and state for so long?

 

[Vel]

There are many people who do not have a current driver's license. Not everyone owns a car, you know. And many old people do not drive.

Here's one example:
Voter thwarted in Waukesha for lack of ID - JSOnline

The sad thing about that particular case of a registered American citizen voter not being allowed to vote is that the Voter ID law wasn't even in effect yet, but she was still asked for Voter ID and did not have one, so she was not allowed to vote.


You already have to prove your citizenship and eligibility to vote when you register to vote. Voter ID is a solution looking for a problem. Proper management of the registered voter rolls would eliminate/catch all voter fraud. In over two centuries of voting in America, there is not one case of fraud which could not be solved or caught by proper voter registration management.

Therefore, one can only conclude that since Voter ID is unnecessary for the purpose of ensuring only authorized American citizens vote, then its TRUE purpose is obviously something else.

Don't drink the bongwater.

But currently people are voting for weeks ahead of the election at all sorts of places, and if they happen to not be on the roster, they are allowed to vote anyway. There is far too much opportunity to vote twice, to vote under assumed names, to shift whole voting blocks to a different precinct to ensure the election of some favored somebody, to vote for the dead, etc. etc. etc. UNLESS some effort is made to verify the identiy of the person voting.

If the 'old folks' can produce the necessary identification to sign up for their social security checks, to establish membership at the Senior Citizens center, or even get into the local courthouse, it is not an imposition for them to provide the same identification to vote.

Voting is a RIGHT, not a privilege. As long as affidavits are AVAILABLE, it should not be a large problem. But I had to cast a PROVISIONAL ballot in 2002 because my photo ID address differed from the roll address. WHY SHOULD ANYONE JUMP THROUGH HOOPS to exercise a RIGHT?

Why should anyone have to show I.D to buy a gun? Under our constitution, you have the RIGHT to bear arms. It's not any different to have to identify yourself to utilize one right as it is another.

 

[Peach]

The DMV has offered photo ID certainly since voter registration laws have been relaxed and voting has become the mishmash of lenient systems that it has come. When the rules and regs were much tigher and did require people who wanted to vote to take the responsibility to make themselves eliginble to do so, voter fraud was not so much of a problem. It still happened but not in huge swarms as it can happen now in tight elections.

If you aren't aware of the voter fraud issues in this country, I don't have time to infomr you here. I suggest that you read up on the tactics, the problems with double registration and how that is used to swing tight elections in certain precincts, etc. etc. etc. I myself have witnessed the disvcovery of a dead person voting when somebody noted a name that was signed in that shouldn't have been. That was when no Photo ID was required. No reports of that happening once Photo ID was required.

Again, why would you object to insurance that elections are fair and impartial? Are you one of the folks who really does want to rig elections? I honestly can't think of any reason to not ensure the honesty of elections other than wanting opportunity for dishonest elections.

I want MORE votes, not less. And I have not heard of voter fraud in my area, only rigid rules that almost kept ME from voting. Where is voter fraud an issue?

If--and I do say IF--you are a dishonest Democrat of COURSE you want more votes, not less. But responsible citizens want more RESPONSIBLE people to vote, not just more votes. And again, if you don't read or pay attention to what's going on, I simply don't have the time or inclination to educate you on were voter fraud is an issue or why the Democrats are fighting tooth and nail to make it much easier to commit voter fraud.

I want all ELIGIBLE Americans to vote(.)

 

[Peach]

But currently people are voting for weeks ahead of the election at all sorts of places, and if they happen to not be on the roster, they are allowed to vote anyway. There is far too much opportunity to vote twice, to vote under assumed names, to shift whole voting blocks to a different precinct to ensure the election of some favored somebody, to vote for the dead, etc. etc. etc. UNLESS some effort is made to verify the identiy of the person voting.

If the 'old folks' can produce the necessary identification to sign up for their social security checks, to establish membership at the Senior Citizens center, or even get into the local courthouse, it is not an imposition for them to provide the same identification to vote.

Voting is a RIGHT, not a privilege. As long as affidavits are AVAILABLE, it should not be a large problem. But I had to cast a PROVISIONAL ballot in 2002 because my photo ID address differed from the roll address. WHY SHOULD ANYONE JUMP THROUGH HOOPS to exercise a RIGHT?

Why should anyone have to show I.D to buy a gun? Under our constitution, you have the RIGHT to bear arms. It's not any different to have to identify yourself to utilize one right as it is another.

"A well armed MILITIA....." seems to have escaped you.

 

[gallantwarrior]

First - please try to avoid partisan tripe when replying, I am looking for honest answers here..

So with the voter ID issue, its being claimed that poor/miniorities will be "disenfranchised" and prevented from voting since they some how get through life without an ID...

First off, how do you get through life without a driver's license --- driving, getting services many places, buying alcohol, etc all require it.

There are many people who do not have a current driver's license. Not everyone owns a car, you know. And many old people do not drive.

Here's one example:
Voter thwarted in Waukesha for lack of ID - JSOnline

The sad thing about that particular case of a registered American citizen voter not being allowed to vote is that the Voter ID law wasn't even in effect yet, but she was still asked for Voter ID and did not have one, so she was not allowed to vote. Even if she had brought her driver's license, it was expired, so she would still have been denied if Voter ID law was in effect.

Bogus treatment of an American citizen.


You already have to prove your citizenship and eligibility to vote when you register to vote.

Voter ID is a solution looking for a problem. Proper management of the registered voter rolls would eliminate/catch all voter fraud. If dead people are voting, that can only be possible because their names have not been removed from the voter rolls. Voter ID won't remove dead people from the rolls. So the obvious solution is to clean up and properly maintain the rolls. If people truly cared about voter fraud involving dead people voting, they would be screaming at the registrars to do their jobs, not calling for Voter ID. If a registrar is not keeping accurate records, how well are they going to manage an additional requirement?

In over two centuries of voting in America, there is not one case of fraud which could not be solved or caught by proper voter registration management.

Therefore, one can only conclude that since Voter ID is unnecessary for the purpose of ensuring only authorized American citizens vote, then its TRUE purpose is obviously something else. It is very strange to hear UnConservatives calling for new and unneccessary laws. That's the job description of liberals, not conservatives. So Voter ID does not pass the smell test.


Don't drink the bongwater.

In the meantime, when questioned ballots must be investigated, what happens if the outcome turns the election? Does the presumptive victor keep the office, or does the actual winner assume the position? Elections have consequences, or so I've heard.

 

[Foxfyre]

I want MORE votes, not less. And I have not heard of voter fraud in my area, only rigid rules that almost kept ME from voting. Where is voter fraud an issue?

If--and I do say IF--you are a dishonest Democrat of COURSE you want more votes, not less. But responsible citizens want more RESPONSIBLE people to vote, not just more votes. And again, if you don't read or pay attention to what's going on, I simply don't have the time or inclination to educate you on were voter fraud is an issue or why the Democrats are fighting tooth and nail to make it much easier to commit voter fraud.

I want all ELIGIBLE Americans to vote(.)

So do I IF they wish to vote. It should not be mandatory. But having the person to vote show ID is the ONLY reasonable, simple, easy, and non oppressive way to ensure that ONLY ELIGIBLE American citizens vote.

 

[Vel]

Voting is a RIGHT, not a privilege. As long as affidavits are AVAILABLE, it should not be a large problem. But I had to cast a PROVISIONAL ballot in 2002 because my photo ID address differed from the roll address. WHY SHOULD ANYONE JUMP THROUGH HOOPS to exercise a RIGHT?

Why should anyone have to show I.D to buy a gun? Under our constitution, you have the RIGHT to bear arms. It's not any different to have to identify yourself to utilize one right as it is another.

"A well armed MILITIA....." seems to have escaped you.

No, it did not. And neither did ," the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

 

[kaz]

Voting is a RIGHT, not a privilege. As long as affidavits are AVAILABLE, it should not be a large problem. But I had to cast a PROVISIONAL ballot in 2002 because my photo ID address differed from the roll address. WHY SHOULD ANYONE JUMP THROUGH HOOPS to exercise a RIGHT?

Why should anyone have to show I.D to buy a gun? Under our constitution, you have the RIGHT to bear arms. It's not any different to have to identify yourself to utilize one right as it is another.

"A well armed MILITIA....." seems to have escaped you.

Actually it's a "regulated' militia. But your point is still not clear. A militia when it was written was a reference to locals who defended their community. There was no definition offered beyond that, but militias were not defined by government. If you had one house without neighbors, I don't think they meant that you were screwed for self defense under the amendment. So I'm not sure what point you have there.

 

[Trajan]

I want MORE votes, not less. And I have not heard of voter fraud in my area, only rigid rules that almost kept ME from voting. Where is voter fraud an issue?

If--and I do say IF--you are a dishonest Democrat of COURSE you want more votes, not less. But responsible citizens want more RESPONSIBLE people to vote, not just more votes. And again, if you don't read or pay attention to what's going on, I simply don't have the time or inclination to educate you on were voter fraud is an issue or why the Democrats are fighting tooth and nail to make it much easier to commit voter fraud.

I want all ELIGIBLE Americans to vote(.)

and you define that eligibility, how?

 

[Lovebears65]

I dont understand it either. If they are so poor they cant get an ID then they are on assistance that requires you to have ID to get it.. IT is an OXYMORON

 

[Peach]

If--and I do say IF--you are a dishonest Democrat of COURSE you want more votes, not less. But responsible citizens want more RESPONSIBLE people to vote, not just more votes. And again, if you don't read or pay attention to what's going on, I simply don't have the time or inclination to educate you on were voter fraud is an issue or why the Democrats are fighting tooth and nail to make it much easier to commit voter fraud.

I want all ELIGIBLE Americans to vote(.)

So do I IF they wish to vote. It should not be mandatory. But having the person to vote show ID is the ONLY reasonable, simple, easy, and non oppressive way to ensure that ONLY ELIGIBLE American citizens vote.

If all poll workers are well trained, AND affidavits are available, then it should not create problems.

 

[1_Old_Man]

How can they not have an ID? Good question. Let us say that the person in question is a destitute single parent, make it a woman. Now let's put her downtown in a big city, one with a crummy public transportation system. So she hasn't got any money, hasn't got a car, and if there was a bus she couldn't afford to pay a babysitter while she took the half a day to go get the ID - whioch is what it would take at a minumum if public transportation has to be involved. Then let the state's DMV handle the ID issuing and put all of the DMV offices way out in the suburbs. In fact while you are at it close a couple of them, and concentrate the closings in areas that are heavily populated by Democrats. That is how its being done right this minute in Wisconsin. So now you know.[/QUO

I would suggest she get to the DMV the same way she gets to the voting booth. I mean if voting is so important to her and all......

I would agree with that, let there be places where the required voter ID is available in every voting precinct and I have no problem at all with the requirement. But the thing is that there are one hell of a lot more voting precincts than there are places to get the Id. So while our lady could, in just about any city in the country, easily walk to the voting place which would likely be within blocks of her, the same can not be said for Id issuing authorities. I believe that I've read that in one of the northern great-lakes area states there are actually only three places in the entire state where ID can be obtained. There were more before the law but the Governor of that state saw fit to close the ones in heavily democratic areas. It is just one more way those filthy bastards have found to corrupt our nation.

 

[kaz]

I want all ELIGIBLE Americans to vote(.)

So do I IF they wish to vote. It should not be mandatory. But having the person to vote show ID is the ONLY reasonable, simple, easy, and non oppressive way to ensure that ONLY ELIGIBLE American citizens vote.

If all poll workers are well trained, AND affidavits are available, then it should not create problems.

So if you're trained and a guy walks up to you and says he's Steve, you're going to know he's not Steve? How are you going to do that?

And are you saying actually that you'd give poll workers the power to turn people away if they don't believe someone is who they say they are?