not understanding the voter ID issue...

[Foxfyre]

How can they not have an ID? Good question. Let us say that the person in question is a destitute single parent, make it a woman. Now let's put her downtown in a big city, one with a crummy public transportation system. So she hasn't got any money, hasn't got a car, and if there was a bus she couldn't afford to pay a babysitter while she took the half a day to go get the ID - whioch is what it would take at a minumum if public transportation has to be involved. Then let the state's DMV handle the ID issuing and put all of the DMV offices way out in the suburbs. In fact while you are at it close a couple of them, and concentrate the closings in areas that are heavily populated by Democrats. That is how its being done right this minute in Wisconsin. So now you know.

This assumes the kid is not old enough to be in school or that the parent can't get their kid babysat for a single day (or half day) by a family member or friend.

And if the single mom is that poor, is she really not on some sort of government assisstance (which requires ID)? If she isn't then she had to have an ID to get a job-- unless she makes all her money under the table?

Yup. Technically, she needs positive ID and a social security number to legally work. And if she is so poor she can't get the DMV or other location to get a photo ID, how likely is she to get to the polling place to cast a vote? But if she wants to vote, I wonder how many of those bleeding hearts that feel such compassion for her are willing to give her a ride to the DMV and hand her a $5 bill to get a photo ID?

A photo driver's license is just one of many forms of positive ID. I think all states now have photos on driver's licenses so that it can be used as positive ID and will issue a non-driver's license photo ID to anybody who doesn't want or can't qualify for a driver's license.

Saying that a photo ID would prevent the poor from voting is strictly a straw man argument and a lie.

It WILL do a lot to prevent ineligible persons from voting.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

First - please try to avoid partisan tripe when replying, I am looking for honest answers here..

So with the voter ID issue, its being claimed that poor/miniorities will be "disenfranchised" and prevented from voting since they some how get through life without an ID...

First off, how do you get through life without a driver's license --- driving, getting services many places, buying alcohol, etc all require it.

Also, people are comparing it to a poll tax as you have to pay for the ID, but honestly the IDs are under $10 and if you are so poor you cant afford $10 every 4 years to renew a license then you likely are on government subsidised living, which requires ID to get the associated service.

I honestly just don't understand the oppisition.

It's just one more "conservative"-hustle.

In Ohio......​

".....students who register to vote as Democrats are seeing their voter registrations routinely challenged by right wing groups for bogus reasons. This is intentional."​

Republican Desperation

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Voter ID laws are being put on the books around the country, in states with Republican administrations, for just one purpose. They are there to discourage the poor and otherwise disadvantaged from voting, to make it harder to them to have their voice in society. This is being done despite the fact that there have been fewer cases of voter fraud at the polling place in this country in the last decade than there have been cases of Jay-walking. The reason this is being done by Republicans is that they clearly understand that those people who are least able to obtain the proscribed ID are the most likely to vote for Democrats.

If the Republican have their way we will all end up as feudal peasants, it is the GOP dream; a very few of them lording over the vast majority of us.

They are there to discourage the poor and otherwise disadvantaged from voting....

.....and the dead, and don't forget the illegal.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

First - please try to avoid partisan tripe when replying, I am looking for honest answers here..

So with the voter ID issue, its being claimed that poor/miniorities will be "disenfranchised" and prevented from voting since they some how get through life without an ID...

First off, how do you get through life without a driver's license --- driving, getting services many places, buying alcohol, etc all require it.

There are many people who do not have a current driver's license. Not everyone owns a car, you know. And many old people do not drive.

Here's one example:
Voter thwarted in Waukesha for lack of ID - JSOnline

The sad thing about that particular case of a registered American citizen voter not being allowed to vote is that the Voter ID law wasn't even in effect yet, but she was still asked for Voter ID and did not have one, so she was not allowed to vote. Even if she had brought her driver's license, it was expired, so she would still have been denied if Voter ID law was in effect.

Bogus treatment of an American citizen.


You already have to prove your citizenship and eligibility to vote when you register to vote.

Voter ID is a solution looking for a problem. Proper management of the registered voter rolls would eliminate/catch all voter fraud. If dead people are voting, that can only be possible because their names have not been removed from the voter rolls. Voter ID won't remove dead people from the rolls. So the obvious solution is to clean up and properly maintain the rolls. If people truly cared about voter fraud involving dead people voting, they would be screaming at the registrars to do their jobs, not calling for Voter ID. If a registrar is not keeping accurate records, how well are they going to manage an additional requirement?

In over two centuries of voting in America, there is not one case of fraud which could not be solved or caught by proper voter registration management.

Therefore, one can only conclude that since Voter ID is unnecessary for the purpose of ensuring only authorized American citizens vote, then its TRUE purpose is obviously something else. It is very strange to hear UnConservatives calling for new and unneccessary laws. That's the job description of liberals, not conservatives. So Voter ID does not pass the smell test.


Don't drink the bongwater.

Voter ID won't remove dead people from the rolls.

No, but it will stop the dead people from voting.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

First - please try to avoid partisan tripe when replying, I am looking for honest answers here..

So with the voter ID issue, its being claimed that poor/miniorities will be "disenfranchised" and prevented from voting since they some how get through life without an ID...

First off, how do you get through life without a driver's license --- driving, getting services many places, buying alcohol, etc all require it.

Also, people are comparing it to a poll tax as you have to pay for the ID, but honestly the IDs are under $10 and if you are so poor you cant afford $10 every 4 years to renew a license then you likely are on government subsidised living, which requires ID to get the associated service.

I honestly just don't understand the oppisition.

I'm confused as to what your question is.

Are you asking how anyone can physically survive without driving?


or are you asking how many eligible voters likely will not be able to vote if voter id laws are passed?



I can answer both:

1) Believe it or not, the automobile is not a vital part of the human biology. Although millions of people would appear to be inseparable from their ever growing automobiles, in fact, the human being is quite capable of surviving without aid of the automobile. Examples can be found worldwide. In the United States, the most noteworthy examples would be in large metropolitan areas. In a place such as New York City, millions of people get around using something called "public transportation". In fact, its downright inconvenient for most people of moderate and low income to even own cars in such areas.


2) Hundreds of thousands or even millions, many many orders of magnitude greater than the number of illegal votes that would be prevented by such laws.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

She is deceased, DMV did not offer photo ID at the time of her death, except for DL's. MY VALID DL was rejected in 2002. Again, where is this mass of voter fraud? The problem is too many choose NOT to vote, not too many people voting.

The DMV has offered photo ID certainly since voter registration laws have been relaxed and voting has become the mishmash of lenient systems that it has come. When the rules and regs were much tigher and did require people who wanted to vote to take the responsibility to make themselves eliginble to do so, voter fraud was not so much of a problem. It still happened but not in huge swarms as it can happen now in tight elections.

If you aren't aware of the voter fraud issues in this country, I don't have time to infomr you here. I suggest that you read up on the tactics, the problems with double registration and how that is used to swing tight elections in certain precincts, etc. etc. etc. I myself have witnessed the disvcovery of a dead person voting when somebody noted a name that was signed in that shouldn't have been. That was when no Photo ID was required. No reports of that happening once Photo ID was required.

Again, why would you object to insurance that elections are fair and impartial? Are you one of the folks who really does want to rig elections? I honestly can't think of any reason to not ensure the honesty of elections other than wanting opportunity for dishonest elections.

I want MORE votes, not less. And I have not heard of voter fraud in my area, only rigid rules that almost kept ME from voting. Where is voter fraud an issue?

Chicago.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Voter ID laws are being put on the books around the country, in states with Republican administrations, for just one purpose. They are there to discourage the poor and otherwise disadvantaged from voting, to make it harder to them to have their voice in society.

....And, it's lookin' like FLORIDA is in-play, again.....

.....AS USUAL!!!!!!!

 

[freedombecki]

Voter ID laws are being put on the books around the country, in states with Republican administrations, for just one purpose. They are there to discourage the poor and otherwise disadvantaged from voting, to make it harder to them to have their voice in society.

....And, it's lookin' like FLORIDA is in-play, again.....

.....AS USUAL!!!!!!!

Sheeze. Dead people cannot vote anymore, and the libbies go crazy.

 

[rdean]

First - please try to avoid partisan tripe when replying, I am looking for honest answers here..

So with the voter ID issue, its being claimed that poor/miniorities will be "disenfranchised" and prevented from voting since they some how get through life without an ID...

First off, how do you get through life without a driver's license --- driving, getting services many places, buying alcohol, etc all require it.

Also, people are comparing it to a poll tax as you have to pay for the ID, but honestly the IDs are under $10 and if you are so poor you cant afford $10 every 4 years to renew a license then you likely are on government subsidised living, which requires ID to get the associated service.

I honestly just don't understand the oppisition.

When I was a kid, many people in rural areas were delivered by a midwife. Many have never had a birth certificate. They lived in their communities their entire lives. Everyone knows who they are. In 60 years they never had a problem voting.

And college kids who are attending college out of state.

This is a well thought out plan to strip as many Americans who might not vote Republican from their right to vote. It's a brilliant, but evil, strategy.

It's only matched by what Republicans have done to the post office. In 2006, the lame duck Republicans passed a bill that the post office must fund it's retirement and other benefits 75 years into the future. The idea is once they fail, insist they are bankrupt and then move their function to the private industry. This will help squeeze money from the American people and some Blue states rely on the Post Office for voting, especially in the rural areas. Another insidious plan to disenfranchise millions of Democratic voters.

When you look at what Republicans are doing, it's clear it's all about turning America into a kind of poor and ignorant Christian Taliban. They deny it and insist they just want to be fair, but they lie so much and so often, no one really believes it. Not even them. Not really.

 

[rdean]

Voter ID laws are being put on the books around the country, in states with Republican administrations, for just one purpose. They are there to discourage the poor and otherwise disadvantaged from voting, to make it harder to them to have their voice in society.

....And, it's lookin' like FLORIDA is in-play, again.....

.....AS USUAL!!!!!!!

Sheeze. Dead people cannot vote anymore, and the libbies go crazy.

As the Republican primaries showed, when it comes to ballot stuffing and losing ballots, no one does better than Republicans.

So, let's summarize. There are millions of votes. Someone would have to walk in to a voting place and have the ID of someone else. Hope no one is there who knows that person and all for a single vote. And if they are caught, it's a 5 year prison term. All that for a vote? Besides Republicans, who could believe that?

Of course not. It's just Republicans practicing voter suppression and then lying they aren't. I can't name something they don't lie about.

 

[Peach]

First - please try to avoid partisan tripe when replying, I am looking for honest answers here..

So with the voter ID issue, its being claimed that poor/miniorities will be "disenfranchised" and prevented from voting since they some how get through life without an ID...

First off, how do you get through life without a driver's license --- driving, getting services many places, buying alcohol, etc all require it.

Also, people are comparing it to a poll tax as you have to pay for the ID, but honestly the IDs are under $10 and if you are so poor you cant afford $10 every 4 years to renew a license then you likely are on government subsidised living, which requires ID to get the associated service.

I honestly just don't understand the oppisition.

When do you need a driver's license for buying alcohol lol

Becuase there is no need for ID. They are forcing more and more minorities to get one when they dont need to. Most them dont have a car and dont drive, so why would they need a license. They are also no major problems with voter fruad. If nothing is broken why are you trying to fix it. the world is made of evil white racist republicans thats trying to destory black people.

The disabled often have no need for ID, and many with photo ID misplace the card on occasion. The sole purpose of the ID addicts is to suppress "unfavorable" votes. There are not tens of thousands, or even thousands, of illegal workers braving LE contact to cast ballots.

American voters are being put through a marathon, in some places, just to vote. Once again, I was almost denied the right to vote in 2002, because of address difference. It should not be a difficult process TO vote, as our nation will not exist without the franchise. Just as the old saying "better a one hundred guilty men go free, than one innocent man convicted"--better 100 illegal votes that one legal vote denied.

 

[rdean]

First - please try to avoid partisan tripe when replying, I am looking for honest answers here..

So with the voter ID issue, its being claimed that poor/miniorities will be "disenfranchised" and prevented from voting since they some how get through life without an ID...

First off, how do you get through life without a driver's license --- driving, getting services many places, buying alcohol, etc all require it.

Also, people are comparing it to a poll tax as you have to pay for the ID, but honestly the IDs are under $10 and if you are so poor you cant afford $10 every 4 years to renew a license then you likely are on government subsidised living, which requires ID to get the associated service.

I honestly just don't understand the oppisition.

When do you need a driver's license for buying alcohol lol

Becuase there is no need for ID. They are forcing more and more minorities to get one when they dont need to. Most them dont have a car and dont drive, so why would they need a license. They are also no major problems with voter fruad. If nothing is broken why are you trying to fix it. the world is made of evil white racist republicans thats trying to destory black people.

Not the world, just half the US.

 

[Clementine]

First - please try to avoid partisan tripe when replying, I am looking for honest answers here..

So with the voter ID issue, its being claimed that poor/miniorities will be "disenfranchised" and prevented from voting since they some how get through life without an ID...

First off, how do you get through life without a driver's license --- driving, getting services many places, buying alcohol, etc all require it.

Also, people are comparing it to a poll tax as you have to pay for the ID, but honestly the IDs are under $10 and if you are so poor you cant afford $10 every 4 years to renew a license then you likely are on government subsidised living, which requires ID to get the associated service.

I honestly just don't understand the oppisition.

My daughter needed an ID to get a summer job and she paid $4 for it. It's no big deal at all. The only roadblock to getting it would have been a lack of birth certificate and therein lies the problem for illegal aliens. No one else would have any issue. We are all given a birth certificate and if we lose it, another can be obtained easily. If people are upset at the minimal cost, perhaps they should protest their local governments who impose a fee for obtaining our own legal documents.

I would think a person needs ID when they apply at the welfare office. We need IDs for virtually everything, including renting a home. I simply don't buy the fact that there are a large group of citizens who have never rented, bought a home, had a bank account, served in the military or visited a military base, got a credit card, wrote a check, purchased alcohol or cigarettes, got a fishing or hunting license or flew in an airplane. There are many everyday circumstances that require an ID and it boggles the mind to imagine any citizen not having some kind of legal identification.

Does ACORN require people to show ID when they help them register to vote? Or do they simply allow people to fill the forms in however they want with no proof whatsoever? If that is the case, then how on earth would fraud be detected? I doubt that there are any meaningful methods of detecting fraud and would guess most instances of voter fraud will never be known. If having a legal ID is not required, then how else can we know who is even voting?

I would think it's very rare for someone not to have an ID. Most of us register to vote via motor voter. Do the folks who don't acquire a driver's license or ID bother to register to vote?

I feel that requiring ID to prove the ballot you are using belongs to you, as a citizen, serves to protect your right to vote and not the other way around. Only illegals will be stopped, but nothing will stop any citizen from voting, except themselves.

The argument that it makes it difficult for minorities does not hold water, unless those minorities happen to be here illegally.

 

[Foxfyre]

If folks don't want to go to the trouble to get an ID, then they shouldn't expect to be able to vote. They should need an ID to vote. If they have no other need for an ID--and I can't imagine that being the case for anybody this day and age, disabled or not--and they don't want to vote, then by all means, don't get an ID. The cost of a photo ID is less than a pack of cigarettes or a bag of pork rinds, and I'm sure you folks who are so concerned about the hardship on somebody could certainly afford the $4 or $5 bucks it would cost to help them out.

If somebody honestly wants to vote and honestly can't afford a photo ID, I would buy them one in a heartbeat. Wouldn't you?

 

[Uncensored2008]

I'm confused as to what your question is.

Are you asking how anyone can physically survive without driving?


or are you asking how many eligible voters likely will not be able to vote if voter id laws are passed?



I can answer both:

Unfortunately, you can't be truthful .

1) Believe it or not, the automobile is not a vital part of the human biology. Although millions of people would appear to be inseparable from their ever growing automobiles, in fact, the human being is quite capable of surviving without aid of the automobile. Examples can be found worldwide. In the United States, the most noteworthy examples would be in large metropolitan areas. In a place such as New York City, millions of people get around using something called "public transportation". In fact, its downright inconvenient for most people of moderate and low income to even own cars in such areas.

So you oppose cars casting a vote for Obama?

2) Hundreds of thousands or even millions, many many orders of magnitude greater than the number of illegal votes that would be prevented by such laws.

ROFL

The lies you frauds float are funny.

One of the standard lying points that frauds like to float is "old people will be unable to vote because they don't drive."

Uh sparky, how do they cash their social security check? That requires ID, as does filling a medicare prescription.

Next standard lie from the voter fraud squad; "da po will be disenfranchazized."

So how do they cash the welfare check? How do they get the food stamp card? The WIC vouchers?

THERE IS ONE, and only one reason to oppose voter ID, because you promote election fraud.

 

[Darkwind]

How can they not have an ID? Good question. Let us say that the person in question is a destitute single parent, make it a woman. Now let's put her downtown in a big city, one with a crummy public transportation system. So she hasn't got any money, hasn't got a car, and if there was a bus she couldn't afford to pay a babysitter while she took the half a day to go get the ID - whioch is what it would take at a minumum if public transportation has to be involved. Then let the state's DMV handle the ID issuing and put all of the DMV offices way out in the suburbs. In fact while you are at it close a couple of them, and concentrate the closings in areas that are heavily populated by Democrats. That is how its being done right this minute in Wisconsin. So now you know.

You're scenario is completely unrealistic. First, a homeless woman living on the streets who is destitute would NOT have a child that needed babysitting because that child would have either been taken away, or provide a good reason for the safety net to kick in.

And guess what she will need to get government aid?

That's right. An ID.

Every state requires some form of ID to get government services.

At every turn to this debate, the talking points that people will lose their voice in our society has been shot down and shown to be false.

There simply is NO downside to having an ID to vote.

 

[Uncensored2008]

The disabled often have no need for ID,

Right, because when they go to cash their SSI check no one cares about ID.

OH WAIT...

More pro-fraud bullshit.

and many with photo ID misplace the card on occasion.

Well, there you go. I suggest that you pro-fraud folk start a campaign to remove the requirement that ID be used to cash SSI checks or withdraw funds.

You're disenfranchising the poor...

The sole purpose of the ID addicts is to suppress "unfavorable" votes.

The "unfavorable" votes being the fraudulent ones.

You of the pro-fraud camp believe them necessary to keeping your party in power.

There are not tens of thousands, or even thousands, of illegal workers braving LE contact to cast ballots.

ROFL

You pro-fraud types are a hoot. Why would illegals care about law enforcement contact? We don't enforce our immigration laws, illegals don't fear our LEO's, why would they?

American voters are being put through a marathon, in some places, just to vote.

ROFL

Yeah, showing an ID - damn, it's not like renting a video..

Once again, I was almost denied the right to vote in 2002, because of address difference.

ID might have helped.

It should not be a difficult process TO vote, as our nation will not exist without the franchise.

Why not? Why should choosing the leaders of this nation NOT take a minimal level of effort, or dare I say it, thought?

Look, you are desperate to ensure fraud continues because it serves your party, but the level of argumentation you offer (rather, that the hate sites you parrot offer) is spurious at best.

Just as the old saying "better a one hundred guilty men go free, than one innocent man convicted"--better 100 illegal votes that one legal vote denied.

Is that right?

Is that the goal of you pro-fraud advocates? 100 fraudulent votes for Obama for every legitimate vote?

 

[LogikAndReazon]

We understand perfectly..............The folks unable to obtain identification are the perfect candidates to understand and help decide whats best for their fellow citizens and the country

Maybe we can lower the voting age to five, to be fair.....................

 

[Foxfyre]

We understand perfectly..............The folks unable to obtain identification are the perfect candidates to understand and help decide whats best for their fellow citizens and the country

Maybe we can lower the voting age to five, to be fair.....................

The best thing we can do for the 'poor and disadvantaged' is to start treating them like everybody else. As long as they are treated like a group of cattle to keep a certain group of politicians in power, there is every incentive to promise them a brighter future while keeping them poor.

Let everybody pay at least some taxes on what they earn.
Let everybody be expected to get themselves to the county clerk's office to register to vote.
Let everybody be expected to go to their assigned precinct voting place to vote.
Let everybody be expected to show that they are who they say they are before they vote.
And let everybody be expected to take responsibility for and be accountable for the choices they make.

Do that and we will see this country begin to be restored to the greatness it once was.

The ONLY reason to not have a photo ID when you vote is to make fraud easier to commit and to make it easier to keep opportunists instead of public servants in office.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

If folks don't want to go to the trouble to get an ID, then they shouldn't expect to be able to vote. They should need an ID to vote.

Where does the Constitution say that?

If they have no other need for an ID--and I can't imagine that being the case for anybody this day and age, disabled or not--and they don't want to vote, then by all means, don't get an ID.

Of course you can't imagine it, you can't imagine anything outside of your tiny little world. Like most right wingers, you are continuously perplexed by the very notion that there are people who are not exactly like you. Anyone who can't live and think like you do just doesn't even count - to the point where they shouldn't even get to vote.