New Scientific Evidence for the Existence of God

[Youwerecreated]

Still, no one is addressing the main question.

 

[Youwerecreated]

Excuse me but the part I quoted was not about pentacene was it? It was a reference to how long ago the image of an individual atom was captured.

That article delves into the fact that it has been easier to see individual atoms than is has molecules. as it says in the very first paragraph



Maybe you should read it before you assume I haven't.

Don't feel so smug now do you?

Are you missing my point of the post, all of those have to happen for your theory to be true.

Or unless i am mistaken of what you quoted.

What theory are you talking about.

You stated that scientists have never seen an atom. All I did was point out your error.

Well one person said ross said it ,and you're saying i said it can you point it out to me. If i am wrong i will admit it.If ross is wrong take it up with him he encourages emails.

 

[LaterTrader]

Beneficial mutations are rare do you disagree ? ALL MUTATIONS ARE EQUALLY POSSIBLE! Mutations are mutations, "beneficial" is determined by the evolutionary concept of "natural selection"! NATURAL SELECTION That is the concept of several random events happening simultaneously. I think you failed to comprehend that no one species, just as no one thunderstorm, no one snowstorm, no one volcanic eruption, happens in isolation. The same with mutations. Sorry you missed this point in science.



There are far more neutral and harmful mutations then beneficial mutations which makes the theory wrong.You need a net gain of beneficial information and thats not the case. There are over 4,500 genetic disorders and how many beneficial genes that came from a mutation ?


Mutated genes do not have a very good chance of surviving in the genepool. BULLSHIT.........depends upon the environment, and the actual mutation. 99% of mutations have ABSOLUTELY NO EFFECT upon the species!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Where do you folks manufacture facts? Some garage in Israel or Germany or Los Angeles? This is the kind of thinking that would have killed mulatto children born to white females. Very much filled with fallacies. (Actually, all WHITE children are descended from Africans, skin color is a beneficial mutation, a well-documented DNA evolutionary series, several thousand years to finish) to skin color. Light skinned people survive winters in disease ridden far northern areas of the planet MUCH MORE OFTEN AND BETTER than do darker skinned people, this "MUTATION" being beneficial for lighter skinned people in Norway, England, France, etc, about 30,000 (40-20K) years ago.

This is my last response for the last time until someone attempts to answer my question this thread should be dead soon.

......

Your question is foolish irrelevant, illogical and your concept of demanding answers from people who do NOT pay allegiance to YOUR order of demands for respect, without showing ANY respect for people who think differently, (more logically) than you do?

Hardly are you in a position to make DEMANDS upon other, more rational thinkers

 

[Youwerecreated]

That's pure BS because our days are getting longer, by 1 thousandth of a second every day, which is about a second every 3 years. So using your 6,000 year old Earth, a day was about 23 1/2 hours long during creation.

Well wait til we hit to the 25th hour.

I only am interested in the one question I posted, that only one person has attempted to answer and failed miserably, respectfully.

So after shooting down Ross' claim that if any ONE of his 42 "evidences" were off life would not exist, using the very example YOU chose, you want to cut and run.
Thank You.

Really where ?

The Extreme Precision of Physical Constants

Unless the force electromagnetism takes on a particular value, molecules won't happen. Take the nucleus of an atom. There's an electron orbiting that nucleus. If the force electromagnetism is too weak, the electron will not orbit the nucleus.

Electromagnetism

There won't be sufficient electromagnetic pull to keep that electron orbiting the nucleus. If electrons cannot orbit nuclei, then electrons cannot be shared so that nuclei can come together to form molecules. Without molecules, we have no life.

If the force electromagnetism is too strong, the nuclei will hang onto their electrons with such strength that the electrons will not be shared with adjoining nuclei and again, molecules will never form. Unless the force electromagnetism is fine-tuned to a particular value, the universe will have no molecules and no life.

Strong Nuclear Force

We also have a problem in getting the right atoms. Now take a neutron and a proton. Protons and neutrons are held together in the nucleus of an atom by the strong nuclear force, which is the strongest of the four forces of physics.

If the nuclear force is too strong, the protons and neutrons in the universe will find themselves stuck to other protons and neutrons, which means we have a universe devoid of Hydrogen.

Hydrogen is the element composed of the bachelor proton. Without Hydrogen, there's no life chemistry. It's impossible to conceive of life chemistry without Hydrogen.

On the other hand, if we make the nuclear force slightly weaker, none of the protons and neutrons will stick together. All of the protons and neutrons will be bachelors, in which case the only element that would exist in the universe would be Hydrogen, and it's impossible to make life if all we've got is Hydrogen.

How sensitive must this strong nuclear force be designed for life to exist? It's so sensitive that if we were to make this force 3/10 of 1% stronger or 2% weaker, life would be impossible at any time in the universe.

Mass of the Proton and Neutron

We also have a problem with the protons and the neutrons themselves. The neutron is 0.138% more massive than the proton. Because of this, it takes a little more energy for the universe to make neutrons, as compared to protons. That's why in the universe of today we have seven times as many protons as neutrons.

If the neutron were 1/10th of 1% less massive than what we observe, then the universe would make so many neutrons that all of the matter in the universe would very quickly collapse into neutron stars and black holes, and life would be impossible.

If we made the neutron 1/10th of 1% more massive than what we observe, then the universe would make so few neutrons, that there wouldn't be enough neutrons to make Carbon, Oxygen, Nitrogen, Phosphorus, Potassium, etc. These are the elements that are essential for life. So, we must delicately balance that mass to within 1/10 th of 1%, or life is impossible.

Electrons

With electrons we see an even more sense of the balance. In order for life to exist in the universe, the force of gravity must be 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 (10 to the 40th power) times weaker than the force of electromagnetism. It's essential that the force of gravity be incredibly weak compared to the other three forces of physics.

Gravity

Yet planets, stars and galaxies will not form unless gravity is dominant in the universe, so the universe must be set up in such a way that the other forces of physics cancel out and leave gravity, the weakest of the forces, dominant.

It's necessary for the universe to be electrically neutral. The numbers of the positively charged particles must be equivalent to the numbers of negatively charged particles or else electromagnetism will dominate gravity, and stars, galaxies and planets will never form. If they don't form, then clearly life is impossible.

The numbers of electrons must equal the numbers of protons to better than one part of 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 (10 to the 37 th power). That number is so large that it's difficult for laymen to get a handle on it. So I compare that number with another very large number - the national debt.

The National Debt

The national debt stands at $5,000,000,000,000. One way to visualize this is to imagine we cover one square mile of land with dimes piles 17 inches high. We can pay off the entire national debt with a pile of dimes 17 inches high in one square mile.

That's truly a lot of dimes. Out national debt problem is serious. But to get 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, we would have to cover the entire North American continent with dimes, but 17 inches high won't do.

We'd have to cover the entire North American continent from here all the way to the moon. That's a 250,000-mile high pile of dimes covering 10,000,000 square miles, and you'd have to do that with a billion North American continents from here all the way to the moon. That is one chance in 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 (10 to the 37 th power).

To give you an idea, imagine that in those piles of billions of dimes, there's one dime colored red. If you were to randomly shuffle your way through those billions of dimes blindfolded, and you choose one dime, the odds that you would pick up that one red dime is one chance in 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 .

God's Fine-Tuning vs. Man's Fine-Tuning

Another way of looking at this incredible fine-tuning of the universe in this one characteristic is to compare it with the very best that we humans have achieved. It's not built yet, but towards the end of this year, a machine will come online at Cal Tech. This machine will have the capacity to make measurements to within one part in 100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 (10 to the 23rd power). The best machine man has ever designed.

But the very best machine that man has ever designed, with all of our money, technology and education, falls one hundred trillion times short of the level of fine-tuning that we see in just this one characteristic of the universe.

Purposefully, I didn't choose the best example. In my book, The Creator and the Cosmos, I describe two other characteristics of the universe that are much more fine-tuned than the balance of electrons to protons. Some of these characteristics reveal more than what I've described here.

If the universe is fine-tuned in one part to the 10 to the 37th power, one part in 10 to the 40th power and one part in 10 to the 55th power on three different characteristics, then that tells us that God must be personal; that He's not only transcendent, he's personal!

God: 100 Trillion Trillion Times More Precise than Man

Why do we say this? Because only a person is capable of fine-tuning to the degree that we've observed, and that person must be orders of magnitude more intelligent and creative than we human beings. One hundred trillion times more intelligent and creative than we human beings, just based on that one characteristic. But he's also creative and loving.

Earth: An Insignificant Speck?

When I was a young man, questioning the holy books of the religions of the world, I knew God must exist because of the Big Bang. There's a beginning, there must be a beginner. But I doubted that God was personal and caring because I felt that planet Earth was just an insignificant speck in the eyes of a God that created a hundred trillion stars. What could we matter to such an awesome God?

Mass of the Universe

Astronomers have discovered that the total mass of the universe acts as a catalyst for nuclear fusion and the more massive the universe is, the more efficiently nuclear fusion operates in the cosmos. If the universe is too massive, the mass density too great, then very quickly all the matter in the universe is converted from Hydrogen into elements heavier than iron, which would render life impossible because the universe would be devoid of Carbon, Oxygen, Nitrogen, etc.

If the universe has too little mass, then fusion would work so inefficiently that all that the universe would ever produce would be Hydrogen, or Hydrogen plus a small amount of Helium. But there again, the Carbon and Oxygen we need for life would be missing.

What does this tell me about the Creator? That God so loved the human race that he went to the expense of building one hundred billion stars and carefully shaped and crafted those hundred billion trillion stars for the entire age of the universe, so that for this brief moment in time, we could have a nice place to live.

It's the same logic that my five and eight year old sons use on me. They measure my love for them by how much money I spend on the gifts that I buy for them. We can use the same kind of logic to draw the conclusion that the God who created the universe must love we human beings very much, given how much he spent on our behalf.

We live in a Special Solar System, Too

We can extend this argument of design from the universe to the solar system itself. When we look at the solar system, we discover that we have a heavenly body problem. It's not that easy to get the right galaxy.

Life can only happen on late born stars. If it's a first or second-generation star, then life is impossible because you don't yet have the heavy elements necessary for life chemistry. There's a narrow window of time in the history of the universe when life can happen.

If the universe is too old or too young, life is impossible. Only spiral galaxies produce stars late enough in their history that they can take advantage of the elements that are essential for life history, and only 6% of the galaxies in our universe are spiral galaxies. Of those 6%, you must go with galaxies that produce all of the elements that are essential for life. It's not that easy.

Besides Hydrogen and Helium, the other elements are made in the cores of super giant stars. Super giant stars burn up quickly; they're gone in a just a few million years. When they go through the final stages of burning up their fuel, they explode ashes into outer space, and future generations of stars will absorb those ashes.

Births & Deaths of Multiple Stars Required to have Metals in Earth's Crust

When those stars go through their burning phase, they will take that heavy element ash material. This time when they explode, they make a whole bunch of material, capable of forming rocky planets and supporting life chemistry.

But we want these supernovae exploding early in the history of the galaxy. We don't want them going off now. If the star Cereus goes Super Nova, we're in serious trouble because it's only eight light years away. It would exterminate life on our planet.

We observe in our galaxy that there was a burst of Super Nova explosions early in its history, but it tapered off to where it isn't a threat to life that is now in existence. The Super Nova explosions took place in the right quantity and in the right locations so that life could happen here on Earth.

What does location have to do with it? Life is impossible in the center of our galaxy, or in the heel of our galaxy. It's only possible at a distance 2/3 from the center of our galaxy.

Mormon Astronomy - Accurate or not?

That's why I'm not a Mormon. Mormons tell us that life originated on a master planet right smack at the center of our galaxy. That's probably also why I've never met a Mormon astronomer.

The stars at the center of our galaxy are jammed so tightly together that the mutual gravity would destroy the planetary orbits. Moreover, their synchrotron radiation would be destructive to life molecules. But we don't want to be too far away from the center, either. If we get too far away, then there aren't enough heavy elements from the exploded remains of supernovae to enable life chemistry to proceed.

There's one life essential element that the supernovae do not make, however, and that's Fluorine. Fluorine is made only on the surfaces of white dwarf binaries. A white dwarf is a burned out star. It's like a cinder in a fireplace, just glowing.

Orbiting this white dwarf is a star that hasn't yet exhausted its nuclear fuel. It's an ordinary star, like our Sun. The white dwarf has enough mass relative to the ordinary star orbiting around it that it is capable of pulling mass off of the surface of the ordinary star and dragging it down so that it falls on its surface. When that material falls on the surface of the while dwarf, it ignites some very interesting nuclear reactions that produce Fluorine.

We need a white dwarf binary whose gravitational interactions between the white dwarf and the ordinary star are such that a strong enough stellar wind is sent from the white dwarf to blast the Fluorine beyond the gravitational pull of both stars, putting it into outer space, so that future generations of stars can absorb it. Then we have enough Fluorine for life chemistry.

A Trillion Galaxies - but as far as physicists know, only ours can support life

Two American astrophysicists concluded about a year ago that rare indeed is the galaxy that has the right number of this special kind white dwarf binary pair in the right location, occurring at the right time, so that life can exist today. The universe contains a trillion galaxies. But ours may be the only one that has the necessary conditions for life to exist.

The right star is needed. We can't have a star any bigger than our Sun. The bigger the star, the more rapidly and erratically it burns its fuel. Our Sun is just small enough to keep a stable enough flame for a sufficient period of time to make life possible. If it were any bigger, we couldn't have life on planet Earth. If it were any smaller, we'd be in trouble, too.

Smaller stars are even more stable than our star, the Sun, but they don't burn as hot. In order to keep our planet at the right temperature necessary to sustain life, we'd have to bring the planet closer to the star.

Tidal Forces

The physicists in the audience realize that when you bring a planet closer to its star, the tidal interaction between the star and the planet goes up to the inverse fourth power to the distance separating them. For those of you who are not physicists, that means that all you have to do is bring that planet ever so much closer to the star, and the tidal forces could be strong enough to break the rotational period.

That's what happened to Mercury and Venus. Those planets are too close to the Sun; so close that their rotational periods have been broken, from several hours to several months.

Earth is just barely far enough away to avoid that breaking. We have a rotation period of once every 24 hours. If we wait much longer, it will be every 26 or 28 hours, because the Earth's rotation rate is slowing down.

Going back in history, we can measure the time when the Earth was rotating every 20 hours. When the Earth was rotating once every 20 hours, human life was not possible. If it rotates once every 28 hours, human life will not be possible. It can only happen at 24 hours.

Speed of Earth's Rotation

If the planet rotates too quickly, you get too many tornadoes and hurricanes. If it rotates too slowly, it gets too cold at night and too hot during the day. We don't want it to be 170 degrees during the day, nor do we want it to be below –100 at night, because that's not ideal for life.

We don't want lots of hurricanes and tornadoes, either. What we currently have is an ideal situation, and God plays this. He created us here at the ideal time.

We need the right Earth. If the Earth is too massive, it retains a bunch of gases such as Ammonia, Methane, Hydrogen and Helium in its atmosphere. These gases are not acceptable for life, at least, not for advanced life. But if it's not massive enough, it won't retain water. For life to exist on planet Earth, we need a huge amount of water, but we don't need a lot of ammonia and methane.

Remember high school chemistry? Methane's molecular weight 16, ammonia's molecular weight 17, water's molecular weight is 18. God so designed planet Earth that we keep lots of the 18, but we don't keep any of the 16 or the 17. The incredible fine-tuning of the physical characteristics of Earth is necessary for that.

Jupiter Necessary, too

We even have to have the right Jupiter. We wrote about this in our Facts and Faith newsletter a few issues back, but it was also discovered by American astrophysicists just this past year. Unless you have a very massive planet like Jupiter, five times more distant from the star than the planet that has life, life will not exist on that planet.

It takes a super massive planet like Jupiter, located where it is, to act as a shield, guarding the Earth from comic collisions. We don't want a comet colliding with Earth every week. Thanks to Jupiter, that doesn't happen.

What these astrophysicists discovered in their models of planetary formation was that it's a very rare star system indeed that produces a planet as massive as Jupiter, in the right location, to act as such a shield.

We Even Need the Right Moon

The Earth's moon system is that of a small planet being orbited by a huge, single moon. That huge, single moon has the effect of stabilizing the rotation axis of planet Earth to 23½ degrees. That's the ideal tilt for life on planet Earth.

The axis on planet Mars moves through a tilt from zero to 60 degrees and flips back and forth. If that were to happen on Earth, life would be impossible. Thanks to the Moon, it's held stable at 23 ½ degrees.

Just as with the universe, in the case of the solar system, we can attach numbers to these. In this case, I've chosen to be extremely conservative in my estimates. I would feel justified in sticking a few zeros between the decimal point and the one. I would feel justified in making this 20 percent, 10 percent, for example, and on down the line.

We Even Need the Right Number of Earthquakes

I've got so many characteristics here, and I let the Californians know that you have to have the right number of earthquakes. Not too many, not too few, or life is not possible. I share them with my wife, who doesn't like earthquakes, but I just tell her that when you feel a good jolt, that's when you have to thank God for his perfect providence.

At Least 41 Fine-Tuned Characteristics, to have One Planet that Supports Life

The bottom line to all of this is that we have 41 characteristics of the solar system that must be fine-tuned for life to exist. But even if the universe contains as many planets as it does stars, which is a gross overestimate in my opinion, that still leaves us with less than one chance in a billion trillion that you'd find even one planet in the entire universe with the capacity for supporting life.

This tells us that we're wasting valuable taxpayer money looking for intelligent life elsewhere in the universe. Worse than that, we're wasting valuable telescope time. In the words of William Proxmyer, “It would be far wiser looking for intelligent life in Washington than looking for it in other galaxies.”

Planet Earth: Not an Accident

It also tells us that God wasn't wandering throughout the vastness of the cosmos saying, “Wow, that's the best one, I'll use that”. No. With odds this remote, we must realize that God especially designed and crafted, through miraculous means, planet Earth, so that it would support life and human beings. Planet Earth is not an accident; it is a product of divine design.

I would also say that's true of life on Earth. The fossil record testifies of life beginning on planet Earth 3.8 billion years ago. Over those 3.8 billion years, we have more and more species of greater and greater complexity and greater and greater diversity. But there's no fossil tree. We have no evidence for the horizontal branches.


Hugh Ross - Origin of the Universe

 

[Youwerecreated]

Beneficial mutations are rare do you disagree ? ALL MUTATIONS ARE EQUALLY POSSIBLE! Mutations are mutations, "beneficial" is determined by the evolutionary concept of "natural selection"! NATURAL SELECTION That is the concept of several random events happening simultaneously. I think you failed to comprehend that no one species, just as no one thunderstorm, no one snowstorm, no one volcanic eruption, happens in isolation. The same with mutations. Sorry you missed this point in science.



There are far more neutral and harmful mutations then beneficial mutations which makes the theory wrong.You need a net gain of beneficial information and thats not the case. There are over 4,500 genetic disorders and how many beneficial genes that came from a mutation ?


Mutated genes do not have a very good chance of surviving in the genepool. BULLSHIT.........depends upon the environment, and the actual mutation. 99% of mutations have ABSOLUTELY NO EFFECT upon the species!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Where do you folks manufacture facts? Some garage in Israel or Germany or Los Angeles? This is the kind of thinking that would have killed mulatto children born to white females. Very much filled with fallacies. (Actually, all WHITE children are descended from Africans, skin color is a beneficial mutation, a well-documented DNA evolutionary series, several thousand years to finish) to skin color. Light skinned people survive winters in disease ridden far northern areas of the planet MUCH MORE OFTEN AND BETTER than do darker skinned people, this "MUTATION" being beneficial for lighter skinned people in Norway, England, France, etc, about 30,000 (40-20K) years ago.

This is my last response for the last time until someone attempts to answer my question this thread should be dead soon.

......

Your question is foolish irrelevant, illogical and your concept of demanding answers from people who do NOT pay allegiance to YOUR order of demands for respect, without showing ANY respect for people who think differently, (more logically) than you do?

Hardly are you in a position to make DEMANDS upon other, more rational thinkers

Oh boy,skin color is a benefit if you want to believe that go ahead. If you want to believe that bacteria building antibiotic resistance is a benefit go ahead. I believe you 're desperate and reaching.

So now tell me how this proves mutations will produce a destinct new organism ?

Do you understand the difference in adapting and Macro-evolution ?

 

[LaterTrader]

[quote=Youwerecreated;3943649]Not exactly new, but fully supported by science.My views will need to be adjusted just a little. I will post the link where you can listen to the audio version which i enjoyed thouroughly or you can read the entire article.


New Scientific Evidence for the Existence of God


A Seminal Presentation by Astrophysicist Dr. Hugh Ross, given in South Barrington, Illinois, April 16, 1994


Hugh Ross - Origin of the Universe[/quote]

[COLOR="DARK BLUE"]There is NO "NEW SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE"

There is only another con artist with a Ph.D. refuting ALL logical and factual evidence for evolution of biological species. and there is a poster here who:

REFUSES TO ENGAGE in DEBATE!
REFUTES FACTS ONLY with OPINION!
MAKES FUN of fellow POSTERS
REFUSES TO engage in logical thought
REFUSES TO read links, view and hear videos


I will be asking that such a dishonest, immature, illogical and disrespectful poster be banned from this site.

I will be circulating a petition for this to happen within the next 3-10 hours, on all forums, in all locations.

Dishonesty, and disingenuousnes should NOT be rewarded on these boards.

Who will join with me to get "YOUWERECREATED" IP number( sent to you if you request it) and geographic location (sent to you as well) removed permanently from here.

We are sick and tired of people here to waste our time. We are here for serious, adult conversation, with people who actually read books, actually understand the adult concept of debate.

YOUWERECREATED obviuosly does NOT understand how to behave as an adult.

Join with me to eliminate this waste of time on our web site, such a waste of time. Adults deserve better than 8 year old's pettiness, and lack of depth in exposure. An 8 year old does better debating an adult, often times, about how late they can stay out on a weeknight in summer, than does YOUWERE CREATED, who refuses all challenges, refuses to actually read and watch videos, is locked into Biblical mythology, and never will bother to engage an adult, rational human being. Filled with pseudo-science, that poster, YOUWERECREATED, mocks all sense of rational argument, and denies common factual evidence, choosing uninformed opinion over well-established science.

Sent to ALL people who post on this forum, or on any forum where YOUWERECREATED posts. (I can do a search as well as any web site manager!)

Let's all come together to inform the web site managers here that YOUWERECREATED, wastes all our time, energy, and resources, and should be permanently denied entry to this web site.[/COLOR]

 

[edthecynic]

Well wait til we hit to the 25th hour.

I only am interested in the one question I posted, that only one person has attempted to answer and failed miserably, respectfully.

So after shooting down Ross' claim that if any ONE of his 42 "evidences" were off life would not exist, using the very example YOU chose, you want to cut and run.
Thank You.

One out of 42, if that is a football game you got whipped.

It was ROSS who said that if any ONE was off then no life would not exist. YOU then picked what YOU thought was the strongest argument, and I shot a hole through it big enough to drive a Mac Truck through, and then like a typical Neo-Superstitionist you moved the goal post and then claimed victory.
You fool no one!

 

[Youwerecreated]

Not exactly new, but fully supported by science.My views will need to be adjusted just a little. I will post the link where you can listen to the audio version which i enjoyed thouroughly or you can read the entire article.


New Scientific Evidence for the Existence of God


A Seminal Presentation by Astrophysicist Dr. Hugh Ross, given in South Barrington, Illinois, April 16, 1994


Hugh Ross - Origin of the Universe

There is NO "NEW SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE"

There is only another con artist with a Ph.D. refuting ALL logical and factual evidence for evolution of biological species. and there is a poster here who:

REFUSES TO ENGAGE in DEBATE!
REFUTES FACTS ONLY with OPINION!
MAKES FUN of fellow POSTERS
REFUSES TO engage in logical thought
REFUSES TO read links, view and hear videos


I will be asking that such a dishonest, immature, illogical and disrespectful poster be banned from this site.

I will be circulating a petition for this to happen within the next 3-10 hours, on all forums, in all locations.

Dishonesty, and disingenuousnes should NOT be rewarded on these boards.

Who will join with me to get "YOUWERECREATED" IP number( sent to you if you request it) and geographic location (sent to you as well) removed permanently from here.

We are sick and tired of people here to waste our time. We are here for serious, adult conversation, with people who actually read books, actually understand the adult concept of debate.

YOUWERECREATED obviuosly does NOT understand how to behave as an adult.

Join with me to eliminate this waste of time on our web site and on our planet. Such scum is such a waste of time.

Lady you have proven to be a very bitter person that can't seem to stand anything that contradicts your religion.

If they think i should leave that is their call.

If so this is just another example of someone trying to shut down the truth.

Take your so called B.S. degrees and shove them where the sun don't shine. I think you're a fraud. I challenged you to produce your credentials and i would present mine, what did you do ,you disappeared.

By the way i would put my school for the sciences up against yours any day. The University of Arizona. But you already new that though didn't you. So where did get your so called B.S. degrees ?

I take that back you probably are the queen of BS.

 

[Youwerecreated]

So after shooting down Ross' claim that if any ONE of his 42 "evidences" were off life would not exist, using the very example YOU chose, you want to cut and run.
Thank You.

One out of 42, if that is a football game you got whipped.

It was ROSS who said that if any ONE was off then no life would not exist. YOU then picked what YOU thought was the strongest argument, and I shot a hole through it big enough to drive a Mac Truck through, and then like a typical Neo-Superstitionist you moved the goal post and then claimed victory.
You fool no one!

Yeah right.

 

[Youwerecreated]

All the smoke and mirrors, how can a fraud preacher present such a simple question that all the atheists can't admit it's evidence of an intelligent designer.

 

[Youwerecreated]

So after shooting down Ross' claim that if any ONE of his 42 "evidences" were off life would not exist, using the very example YOU chose, you want to cut and run.
Thank You.

One out of 42, if that is a football game you got whipped.

It was ROSS who said that if any ONE was off then no life would not exist. YOU then picked what YOU thought was the strongest argument, and I shot a hole through it big enough to drive a Mac Truck through, and then like a typical Neo-Superstitionist you moved the goal post and then claimed victory.
You fool no one!

Hmm, you can't point out what you supposedly shot down ?

Because i am not seeing what you are talking about.

 

[Youwerecreated]

Not exactly new, but fully supported by science.My views will need to be adjusted just a little. I will post the link where you can listen to the audio version which i enjoyed thouroughly or you can read the entire article.


New Scientific Evidence for the Existence of God


A Seminal Presentation by Astrophysicist Dr. Hugh Ross, given in South Barrington, Illinois, April 16, 1994


Hugh Ross - Origin of the Universe

There is NO "NEW SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE"

There is only another con artist with a Ph.D. refuting ALL logical and factual evidence for evolution of biological species. and there is a poster here who:

REFUSES TO ENGAGE in DEBATE!
REFUTES FACTS ONLY with OPINION!
MAKES FUN of fellow POSTERS
REFUSES TO engage in logical thought
REFUSES TO read links, view and hear videos


I will be asking that such a dishonest, immature, illogical and disrespectful poster be banned from this site.

I will be circulating a petition for this to happen within the next 3-10 hours, on all forums, in all locations.

Dishonesty, and disingenuousnes should NOT be rewarded on these boards.

Who will join with me to get "YOUWERECREATED" IP number( sent to you if you request it) and geographic location (sent to you as well) removed permanently from here.

We are sick and tired of people here to waste our time. We are here for serious, adult conversation, with people who actually read books, actually understand the adult concept of debate.

YOUWERECREATED obviuosly does NOT understand how to behave as an adult.

Join with me to eliminate this waste of time on our web site and on our planet. Such scum is such a waste of time.

 

[Youwerecreated]

So after shooting down Ross' claim that if any ONE of his 42 "evidences" were off life would not exist, using the very example YOU chose, you want to cut and run.
Thank You.

One out of 42, if that is a football game you got whipped.

It was ROSS who said that if any ONE was off then no life would not exist. YOU then picked what YOU thought was the strongest argument, and I shot a hole through it big enough to drive a Mac Truck through, and then like a typical Neo-Superstitionist you moved the goal post and then claimed victory.
You fool no one!

What are you talking about ? really this is childish,spit it out child.

 

[Youwerecreated]

Lady you have proven to be a very bitter person that can't seem to stand anything that contradicts your religion.

If they think i should leave that is their call.

If so this is just another example of someone trying to shut down the truth.

Take your so called B.S. degrees and shove them where the sun don't shine. I think you're a fraud. I challenged you to produce your credentials and i would present mine, what did you do ,you disappeared.

By the way i would put my school for the sciences up against yours any day. The University of Arizona. But you already new that though didn't you. So where did get your so called B.S. degrees ?

I take that back you probably are the queen of BS.

You MIGHT find out that tomorrow morning you do NOT have access to this web site, and that you are being sued for millions for your allegations against me.

If you were a smart person, you would stop posting now, because your IP address and your childish posts have been recorded for the last 15 days. If you ever threatened any human being living in the USA, ( as I recall you have done at your IP address) you could face millions in fines, time in jail, and your IP address can be investigated for any other crimes which might have been committed from that address.

You are in deep deep trouble, by the way I(we) are man an woman, and we have 1000+ threatening posts from your IP address..lots of evidence that will be admitted in a court, so if you want to make a fool of yourself and spend 5 years in prison for your posts, threats, and factual failures, slanderous statements......go for it!!! Continue to post this evening! The FBI will be watching you! Contiue

You still don't have an asnwer for the question

There was no threats to anyone except the truth,you really need to lay off of the meds.

 

[Si modo]

Beneficial mutations are rare do you disagree ? ALL MUTATIONS ARE EQUALLY POSSIBLE! Mutations are mutations, "beneficial" is determined by the evolutionary concept of "natural selection"! NATURAL SELECTION That is the concept of several random events happening simultaneously. I think you failed to comprehend that no one species, just as no one thunderstorm, no one snowstorm, no one volcanic eruption, happens in isolation. The same with mutations. Sorry you missed this point in science.



There are far more neutral and harmful mutations then beneficial mutations which makes the theory wrong.You need a net gain of beneficial information and thats not the case. There are over 4,500 genetic disorders and how many beneficial genes that came from a mutation ?


Mutated genes do not have a very good chance of surviving in the genepool. BULLSHIT.........depends upon the environment, and the actual mutation. 99% of mutations have ABSOLUTELY NO EFFECT upon the species!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Where do you folks manufacture facts? Some garage in Israel or Germany or Los Angeles? This is the kind of thinking that would have killed mulatto children born to white females. Very much filled with fallacies. (Actually, all WHITE children are descended from Africans, skin color is a beneficial mutation, a well-documented DNA evolutionary series, several thousand years to finish) to skin color. Light skinned people survive winters in disease ridden far northern areas of the planet MUCH MORE OFTEN AND BETTER than do darker skinned people, this "MUTATION" being beneficial for lighter skinned people in Norway, England, France, etc, about 30,000 (40-20K) years ago.

This is my last response for the last time until someone attempts to answer my question this thread should be dead soon.

......

Your question is foolish irrelevant, illogical and your concept of demanding answers from people who do NOT pay allegiance to YOUR order of demands for respect, without showing ANY respect for people who think differently, (more logically) than you do?

Hardly are you in a position to make DEMANDS upon other, more rational thinkers

Oh boy,skin color is a benefit if you want to believe that go ahead. If you want to believe that bacteria building antibiotic resistance is a benefit go ahead. I believe you 're desperate and reaching.

So now tell me how this proves mutations will produce a destinct new organism ?

Do you understand the difference in adapting and Macro-evolution ?

You were already told how that happens - horizontal (lateral) gene transfer.

 

[edthecynic]

Well wait til we hit to the 25th hour.

I only am interested in the one question I posted, that only one person has attempted to answer and failed miserably, respectfully.

So after shooting down Ross' claim that if any ONE of his 42 "evidences" were off life would not exist, using the very example YOU chose, you want to cut and run.
Thank You.

Really where ?

The Extreme Precision of Physical Constants


Going back in history, we can measure the time when the Earth was rotating every 20 hours. When the Earth was rotating once every 20 hours, human life was not possible. If it rotates once every 28 hours, human life will not be possible. It can only happen at 24 hours.

Hugh Ross - Origin of the Universe

Human life existed millions of years ago when days were much shorter than 20 hours.
Time for Neo-Superstitionists to move the goalposts again.

 

[Sky Dancer]

You don't get it Ed.

God created the universe in seven days. Put that in your scientific pipe and smoke it.

 

[Youwerecreated]

So after shooting down Ross' claim that if any ONE of his 42 "evidences" were off life would not exist, using the very example YOU chose, you want to cut and run.
Thank You.

Really where ?

The Extreme Precision of Physical Constants


Going back in history, we can measure the time when the Earth was rotating every 20 hours. When the Earth was rotating once every 20 hours, human life was not possible. If it rotates once every 28 hours, human life will not be possible. It can only happen at 24 hours.

Hugh Ross - Origin of the Universe

Human life existed millions of years ago when days were much shorter than 20 hours.
Time for Neo-Superstitionists to move the goalposts again.

Ok i do remember that,i was just listening to the audio.

What is your proof human life existed millions of years ago ?

 

[Youwerecreated]

Your question is foolish irrelevant, illogical and your concept of demanding answers from people who do NOT pay allegiance to YOUR order of demands for respect, without showing ANY respect for people who think differently, (more logically) than you do?

Hardly are you in a position to make DEMANDS upon other, more rational thinkers

Oh boy,skin color is a benefit if you want to believe that go ahead. If you want to believe that bacteria building antibiotic resistance is a benefit go ahead. I believe you 're desperate and reaching.

So now tell me how this proves mutations will produce a destinct new organism ?

Do you understand the difference in adapting and Macro-evolution ?

You were already told how that happens - horizontal (lateral) gene transfer.

Informational genes are less likely to be horizontally transferred so how is that making your point ?

 

[Si modo]

Oh boy,skin color is a benefit if you want to believe that go ahead. If you want to believe that bacteria building antibiotic resistance is a benefit go ahead. I believe you 're desperate and reaching.

So now tell me how this proves mutations will produce a destinct new organism ?

Do you understand the difference in adapting and Macro-evolution ?

You were already told how that happens - horizontal (lateral) gene transfer.

Informational genes are less likely to be horizontally transferred so how is that making your point ?

Link?