New Scientific Evidence for the Existence of God

[Youwerecreated]

Not exactly new, but fully supported by science.My views will need to be adjusted just a little. I will post the link where you can listen to the audio version which i enjoyed thouroughly or you can read the entire article.


New Scientific Evidence for the Existence of God


A Seminal Presentation by Astrophysicist Dr. Hugh Ross, given in South Barrington, Illinois, April 16, 1994


Hugh Ross - Origin of the Universe

 

[Douger]

Here's a challenge "go and replenish the earth".
Lets see what you come up with. HINT: Don't ask the brainwashed hillbilly preacher.

 

[The_GiantNoodle]

Not exactly new, but fully supported by science.My views will need to be adjusted just a little. I will post the link where you can listen to the audio version which i enjoyed thouroughly or you can read the entire article.


New Scientific Evidence for the Existence of God


A Seminal Presentation by Astrophysicist Dr. Hugh Ross, given in South Barrington, Illinois, April 16, 1994


Hugh Ross - Origin of the Universe

This crap isnt supported by any Science. I was a born again Christian BTW. Nothing this guy said has any legitimate science to it. He making crap up and giving his opinion.

 

[nitroz]

how is that supported by science?

he took the theory and made it his own theory by adding jesus christ.....

 

[editec]

If there is "scientific" evidence for GOD, then that's the end of faith, hence the end of religion.

Here's a thought...if you looking for empirical evidence for GOD, you're NOT REALLY a Christian.

Because if you're seeking evidence of GOD, you don't understand the basic tenets THAT religon AT ALL.

 

[Dr.Drock]

YWC siding with a man who believes the Earth is 4.5 billion years old? YWC siding with a man who believes all those "absurd" and "crazy" dating methods?


What next, quoting and siding with Richard Dawkins?

 

[007]

1994 is "new?"

 

[Youwerecreated]

Not exactly new, but fully supported by science.My views will need to be adjusted just a little. I will post the link where you can listen to the audio version which i enjoyed thouroughly or you can read the entire article.


New Scientific Evidence for the Existence of God


A Seminal Presentation by Astrophysicist Dr. Hugh Ross, given in South Barrington, Illinois, April 16, 1994


Hugh Ross - Origin of the Universe

This crap isnt supported by any Science. I was a born again Christian BTW. Nothing this guy said has any legitimate science to it. He making crap up and giving his opinion.

You're not showing how he is wrong with anything he said. Rhetoric don't work when we are speaking of science does it ?

 

[Youwerecreated]

how is that supported by science?

he took the theory and made it his own theory by adding jesus christ.....

He broke it down for you.

 

[Dr.Drock]

Later Trader,

Dr. Ross is saying he takes no issue with fossil records and readily admits to 3 billion year old fossil records of species, but then ignores all that same logic and says fossil records from thousands of years of years ago leading to man are wrong and that we just poofed and showed up.

Very interesting to say the least.

 

[Youwerecreated]

Hugh Ross has been around for a long while, he was born in 1945. He's been publishing his Christian shoe-horn pablum in his books for many years. He's smart enough as a scientist in astrophysics to know that the uniformitarian concepts of chemical substances, (composition of stars, planets, moons, atoms, molecules etc), are proved, as well as concepts of light speed, distance in light years, etc.

So he is comfortable with age of Earth being 4.5 billion years, (not a Young Earth Creationist), but claims his Christian magic God placed human beings on this 4.5 billion year old planet "just a few thousand years ago". As an astrophysicist, Dr Ross seems to understand the principles of physics, (atomic theory,general relativity, alpha and gamma rays, etc etc.) He even seems to apply the concepts of physics to the formation of this Earth and other planets, to the undeniable geomorphological history of this planet, but then he goes off on his creationist "shoe horn" routine.

"There were 30,000 land mammals on planet Earth when God created Adam and Eve. There are only 15,000 remaining today. In just a few thousand years, 15,000 species of mammals have disappeared.
Admittedly, man has a lot to do with that."


Hugh Ross - Origin of the Universe


Man killed off 15,000 species of mammals "in just a few thousand years"? What did man do to accomplish THAT so quickly? I don't even want to imagine!


After all the other diversity developed on his 4.5 billion year old planet, (he got THAT right), then he just says that God guy decided, just a "few thousand years" ago, to place homo sapiens on this planet. Shazam!

Here is where his knowledge of biology seems to come up short. So he plugs in his "God gap". He was doing just fine with the astrophysical parts of the universe, he was doing fine with the formation of the planets. He was doing fine with his concept of the age of the Earth, with the chemical composition of the Earth prior to the Carboniferous period, and he even would agree that it was the emergence of large plants covering a land mass that is responsible for creating sufficient oxygen from CO2 to allow for mammalian species to develop, (350,000,000 years ago). But then there's his "God gap", all other plants and animals grew following the laws of geochemistry, geomorphology, (earthquakes mountain and volcanoes, etc), all conditions were made right for man to emerge. and chimps and cows and chickens and apple trees were all ready... just a few thousand (not million) years ago? Oh, because it has to agree with his Christianity story, and he must make it so that science cannot logically falsify the Christian Bible.

This is what we call "shoe-horning" science to fit religious beliefs. Christians are not alone as true believers in doing this here and there to fit in with their mythical stories. Buddhists and others believe we are all re-incarnated, (and will be again and again) but are perfectly okay with the scientific age of the Earth and modern scientific concepts of Earth's biodiversity. (Buddhists even believe we come back to Earth as different animals, but let's not go there right now, off topic.)

It doesn't matter how many science facts one fits in the paragraph along with the words Jesus Christ. Science is science, Christianity is a set of religious beliefs. No, Dr Ross, the 30,000 land mammals is NOT an ACCURATE ESTIMATE of the total number of species of mammals ever to have existed, IN ABOUT 300 hundred plus million years !!!! about 15,000 of which exist today. And, unfortunately, Dr Ross has got the math WRONG on the number of species of plants and animals ever to have existed on this planet.

Extinction is a natural phenomenon in Earth history, it happens, and it happens a lot!

"Of all the species that have lived on the Earth since life first appeared here 3 billion years ago, only about one in a thousand is still living today.All the others, the vast majority, became extinct, typically within ten million years or so of their first appearance. This large extinction rate has had an important influence on the evolution of life on Earth - the population and repopulation of an ecological niche by species after species allows for the testing of a much wider range of survival strategies than the slower process of phyletic transformation by which a species gradually adapts its morphology and behavior to its surroundings. This in turn has contributed greatly to the current level of biodiversity on the planet. There is nothing however to suggest that the species alive at present are special in any way. Presumably they too will become extinct within the next ten million years or so, and make way for successors themselves."

Mass extinction

Back to Dr Ross:

This Dr Ross is a creationist, just as much as any other creationist, he's just not a Young Earth Creationist. He prefers and sincerely is convinced of the science he studied to the Ph.D. level in Astrophysics. He probably likes being a professor in that field. He gets enormous respect fame and fortune with that title, mostly from non-scientists who buy his books. But he somehow has to keep believing in his Bible's creation of human beings story, without any science to go along with it. He just claims man appears here "just a few thousand years ago"!

He just ignores the scientific evidence for the existence of prior homo species. He ignores Neanderthal man, etc. He claims his God, AFTER 4,.5 BILLION years of waiting for the right moment, just plunks down on the planet someone who looks and acts and walks and talks like us, in Ross' words "just a few thousand years" ago!

In psychology, we call this phenomenon "cognitive dissonance", the feeling of uncomfortable tension which comes from holding two conflicting thoughts in the mind at the same time. He knows the Earth is 4.5 billion years old, (give or take), he knows the age of the stars in the universe, but he HAS to keep his Bible beliefs alive. So he "buys into" the creationist mythology with humans arriving on planet Earth "just a few thousand years ago"! Despite all the logical evidence, despite all the fossil record, despite the fossils of other hominoid species, (Neanderthal, Habilis, Australopithicus, etc.), he claims the Christian Bible as his authority for the length of time human beings like us have been around. Simply amazing! (Or simply a great book sales strategy!)

How does he get away with this? How does he (falsely) claim that evidence of other hominoid forms on the planet prior to Homo Sapiens "fills only one coffin full of bones"?
Well the OP's article cited was from 1994, and obviously that coffin would not be overflowing with bones of our pregenitors that are actually MILLIONS of years old ! That's why! But if you buy into the "just a few thousand years ago" mythology, having only one or two coffins to fill would be easy to disregard.

But the evidence of more than just a coffin full of bones is mounting, dear Dr Ross!

The complete DNA sequencing of Neanderthal man, (last on this planet about 30,000 years ago, and probably our closest now extinct ancestral relative), shows striking similarities to Homo Sapiens, and almost identical sequencing to ours in 99%+ of his genome.

Well, we're beginning to get the picture here of Dr Ross, and the kind of talker he is.
He's like a used car salesman, telling us not to pay any attention to the high mileage, (or the bodies in the trunk). These are slick sales lines, they convince some buyers, but they are just a cover-up for the human species history in science that is clearly worthy of study. Dr Ross will convince you he's a legitimate scientist, he will give you 80% science from his vast astrophysical study. He will talk astronomy, geology, physics. But the last 20% will be the non-science from his Bible, complete with his warnings not to pay any attention to the science that disputes the Bible, the science that ("fills only one coffin full of bones").

Just as the magician focuses your attention away from what he's doing by waving one hand, he convinces you not to pay attention to the motion behind the curtain. And with the complete sequencing of humans and Neanderthal man, (not to mention other species), there is PLENTY of motion behind the curtain these days, motion Dr Ross wants you to ignore, like you can easily ignore what "fills only one coffin full of bones"! That's Dr. Ross at his most slick sales pitch best!

He's a flim flam artist, and he has found that he can sell more books to unsophisticated non-scientifically trained Bible followers than he can sell astrophysics texts to college grad students, simply because there are lots of people who WANT to believe their Bible is true, and will pay almost anything to get some "proof" from a scientist. The ill-informed and the gullible are many in our American society, just look around. The critical thinkers, the skeptics, the scientifically trained minds, not so many.

For those clearly curious about the formation of the universe and solar system, the Earth and other planets, for those who want to study the geomorphology of the planet, (volcanes, continental drift, tectonic plates, etc), for those who want to study the history of the evolution of biological species on this planet, I suggest you pay no attention to Dr Ross, and pay him no $ either for his books. Instead I suggest a trip to the local publica library. Ask the librarian to get you a good basic college textbook on any of those subjects. Ask for some videos or other material from a basic college course in planetary science, geologic history of the planet, history of life forms on Earth, etc. You'll learn a whole lot more and not get caught in the shoe-horn traps of non-scientific religious mythologies, no matter HOW "scientific" and appealing Dr Ross may look and sound, he's still preaching, not educating.

How did you address his claims ?i will be honest here, i don't know that much about this issue but it looks like Dr, Ross makes a very solid argument. And by the looks of the responses so far, i see nothing but Rhetoric.

This thread is gonna be evidence about God. It's time to reach the ones with truth, and convince them the schools are deliberately teaching there is God, when all evidence points to a creator.

 

[Youwerecreated]

If there is "scientific" evidence for GOD, then that's the end of faith, hence the end of religion.

Here's a thought...if you looking for empirical evidence for GOD, you're NOT REALLY a Christian.

Because if you're seeking evidence of GOD, you don't understand the basic tenets THAT religon AT ALL.

I never was a fan of religion,i believe religion has caused a very big number of people to fall away from God. In the book of revelations God speaks of babylon the great and with a thourough study you can see that babylon the great represents the empire of false man made religion.

He refers to her being the great harlot that got in bed with the nations and people became rich because of her. It will be shocking when he comes to the earth to judge and destroy her. That is why God yells loudly with the voice of the Archangel to get out of her my people.Unless you want to share in her plagues and desrtuction.

 

[Dr.Drock]

Later Trader,

Dr. Ross is saying he takes no issue with fossil records and readily admits to 3 billion year old fossil records of species, but then ignores all that same logic and says fossil records from thousands of years of years ago leading to man are wrong and that we just poofed and showed up.

Very interesting to say the least.

Classical cognitive dissonance, my friend !

Actually fossil records of Homo Habilis are 2+ milllion years old, and, yes, we have more than enough "bones to fill a coffin" (and the almost complete DNA sequencing from his/her teeth)! Homo Erectus, another SPECIES of HOMO, probably existed at roughly the same time period, and is most likely a direct example of SPECIATION, resulting from a progenitor of both SPECIES!

The list goes on and on; humans branched off from their common ancestor with chimpanzees about 5–7 million years ago. Dr Ross, like all other creationists, simply ignores whatever DNA, morphological, and fossil evidence doesn't fit his Biblical beliefs.

I wouldn't say all creationists are like that. More and more you have creationists ignoring what parts of the Bible go against science rather than vice versa, and I'm confident that trend will continue. I bet if you ask most creationists if there was ever a 450 foot wooden boat carrying 2 of every animal that's ever walked the earth (T Rex and moo cows side by side) I'm confident most would say absolutely not despite the Bible saying that happened.

It's just interesting that he says 3 billion year old fossil records are perfectly fine, but 300,000 year old fossil records are ridiculous and should be flat out ignored.

I can't dog him too much though despite his hypocrisy, I'm sure he's in a nicer house and drives a nicer car than me because of the sales from his hypocrisy lol.

 

[Youwerecreated]

YWC siding with a man who believes the Earth is 4.5 billion years old? YWC siding with a man who believes all those "absurd" and "crazy" dating methods?


What next, quoting and siding with Richard Dawkins?

Yes it is causing me to rethink some of my positions. It's just not this article ,i have been reading all i can on this issue.

I did look up some of the Hebrew words that he brought up, and he is right. The only place i differed with him was with the age of the universe and the earth. He is right we assume that creation was six twenty four hour periods.

I went to the bible to see how he broke it down, how he came up with the 4th day being when the days became 24 hour periods of time. the night and day representing 24 hours in day that we see now..

What also was interesting how he pointed to 42 evidences that showed life could not exist if they were not the way they were.That is evidence of a designer. I plan on adding much more evidence that took design to accomplish, it could not of happened by chance.

 

[Si modo]

Circular reasoning seasoned with scientific accuracies. Nothing more.

 

[Youwerecreated]

Later Trader,

Dr. Ross is saying he takes no issue with fossil records and readily admits to 3 billion year old fossil records of species, but then ignores all that same logic and says fossil records from thousands of years of years ago leading to man are wrong and that we just poofed and showed up.

Very interesting to say the least.

Classical cognitive dissonance, my friend ! Sometimes spotting the logical fallacies in creationist's arguments (as you just did) is easy as shooting fish in a barrel.

Actually fossil records of Homo Habilis are 2+ milllion years old, and, yes, we have more than enough "bones to fill a coffin" (and the almost complete DNA sequencing from his/her teeth)! Homo Erectus, another SPECIES of HOMO, probably existed at roughly the same time period, and is most likely a direct example of SPECIATION, resulting from a progenitor of both SPECIES!

The list goes on and on; humans branched off from their common ancestor with chimpanzees about 5–7 million years ago. Dr Ross, like all other creationists, simply ignores whatever DNA, morphological, and fossil evidence doesn't fit his Biblical beliefs.

I still don't trust the dating methods being reliable if they were they would not need to continue looking for new dating methods.

And i believe Dr.Ross said the oldest fossil they have in their possession is 24,000 years old.

He is also saying that creation of living organisms began 6 to 60 thousand years ago. That would also explain the land of Nod being around when cain was banished to it.

 

[Youwerecreated]

Circular reasoning seasoned with scientific accuracies. Nothing more.

Both sides require some circular reasoning to fill in the gaps.

 

[Youwerecreated]

For those of you with serious curiosity about how geology of the planet intersects with the evolution of life on Earth, particularly looking at oceanic islands, (formed from volcanoes, like Hawaii and the Galapagos) as opposed to continents and continental islands, (e.g.Europe and the British Isles)...here's an interesting reading from a wonderful geneticist. Why do species on the oceanic islands NOT correspond to those on continents?

Also, there are recommendations of several great books readily available at any major local public library at the beginning of the video.

‪Coyne makes chump change of Creationists‬‏ - YouTube


Here is that author in this video, in the first of a several part of video. Worth watching ALL of the segments.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=

There are almost as many disbelievers in evolution in the USA as in the fundamentalist Islamist country of Turkey!

I guess i am gonna have to break out more evidence to stop the rhetoric of the atheist.

 

[Youwerecreated]

1994 is "new?"

But since this article there has been further evidence confirming what is said in this article. That is the evidence no one is responding to.

That is what creationist do, they look at the evidence and the explanations the evolutionist give, and it's usually not that difficult to poke holes in their theories.

 

[Youwerecreated]

Hugh Ross has been around for a long while, he was born in 1945. He's been publishing his Christian shoe-horn pablum in his books for many years. He's smart enough as a scientist in astrophysics to know that the uniformitarian concepts of chemical substances, (composition of stars, planets, moons, atoms, molecules etc), are proved, as well as concepts of light speed, distance in light years, etc.

So he is comfortable with age of Earth being 4.5 billion years, (not a Young Earth Creationist), but claims his Christian magic God placed human beings on this 4.5 billion year old planet "just a few thousand years ago". As an astrophysicist, Dr Ross seems to understand the principles of physics, (atomic theory,general relativity, alpha and gamma rays, etc etc.) He even seems to apply the concepts of physics to the formation of this Earth and other planets, to the undeniable geomorphological history of this planet, but then he goes off on his creationist "shoe horn" routine.

"There were 30,000 land mammals on planet Earth when God created Adam and Eve. There are only 15,000 remaining today. In just a few thousand years, 15,000 species of mammals have disappeared.
Admittedly, man has a lot to do with that."


Hugh Ross - Origin of the Universe


Man killed off 15,000 species of mammals "in just a few thousand years"? What did man do to accomplish THAT so quickly? I don't even want to imagine!


After all the other diversity developed on his 4.5 billion year old planet, (he got THAT right), then he just says that God guy decided, just a "few thousand years" ago, to place homo sapiens on this planet. Shazam!

Here is where his knowledge of biology seems to come up short. So he plugs in his "God gap". He was doing just fine with the astrophysical parts of the universe, he was doing fine with the formation of the planets. He was doing fine with his concept of the age of the Earth, with the chemical composition of the Earth prior to the Carboniferous period, and he even would agree that it was the emergence of large plants covering a land mass that is responsible for creating sufficient oxygen from CO2 to allow for mammalian species to develop, (350,000,000 years ago). But then there's his "God gap", all other plants and animals grew following the laws of geochemistry, geomorphology, (earthquakes mountain and volcanoes, etc), all conditions were made right for man to emerge. and chimps and cows and chickens and apple trees were all ready... just a few thousand (not million) years ago? Oh, because it has to agree with his Christianity story, and he must make it so that science cannot logically falsify the Christian Bible.

This is what we call "shoe-horning" science to fit religious beliefs. Christians are not alone as true believers in doing this here and there to fit in with their mythical stories. Buddhists and others believe we are all re-incarnated, (and will be again and again) but are perfectly okay with the scientific age of the Earth and modern scientific concepts of Earth's biodiversity. (Buddhists even believe we come back to Earth as different animals, but let's not go there right now, off topic.)

It doesn't matter how many science facts one fits in the paragraph along with the words Jesus Christ. Science is science, Christianity is a set of religious beliefs. No, Dr Ross, the 30,000 land mammals is NOT an ACCURATE ESTIMATE of the total number of species of mammals ever to have existed, IN ABOUT 300 hundred plus million years !!!! about 15,000 of which exist today. And, unfortunately, Dr Ross has got the math WRONG on the number of species of plants and animals ever to have existed on this planet.

Extinction is a natural phenomenon in Earth history, it happens, and it happens a lot!

"Of all the species that have lived on the Earth since life first appeared here 3 billion years ago, only about one in a thousand is still living today.All the others, the vast majority, became extinct, typically within ten million years or so of their first appearance. This large extinction rate has had an important influence on the evolution of life on Earth - the population and repopulation of an ecological niche by species after species allows for the testing of a much wider range of survival strategies than the slower process of phyletic transformation by which a species gradually adapts its morphology and behavior to its surroundings. This in turn has contributed greatly to the current level of biodiversity on the planet. There is nothing however to suggest that the species alive at present are special in any way. Presumably they too will become extinct within the next ten million years or so, and make way for successors themselves."

Mass extinction

Back to Dr Ross:

This Dr Ross is a creationist, just as much as any other creationist, he's just not a Young Earth Creationist. He prefers and sincerely is convinced of the science he studied to the Ph.D. level in Astrophysics. He probably likes being a professor in that field. He gets enormous respect fame and fortune with that title, mostly from non-scientists who buy his books. But he somehow has to keep believing in his Bible's creation of human beings story, without any science to go along with it. He just claims man appears here "just a few thousand years ago"!

He just ignores the scientific evidence for the existence of prior homo species. He ignores Neanderthal man, etc. He claims his God, AFTER 4,.5 BILLION years of waiting for the right moment, just plunks down on the planet someone who looks and acts and walks and talks like us, in Ross' words "just a few thousand years" ago!

In psychology, we call this phenomenon "cognitive dissonance", the feeling of uncomfortable tension which comes from holding two conflicting thoughts in the mind at the same time. He knows the Earth is 4.5 billion years old, (give or take), he knows the age of the stars in the universe, but he HAS to keep his Bible beliefs alive. So he "buys into" the creationist mythology with humans arriving on planet Earth "just a few thousand years ago"! Despite all the logical evidence, despite all the fossil record, despite the fossils of other hominoid species, (Neanderthal, Habilis, Australopithicus, etc.), he claims the Christian Bible as his authority for the length of time human beings like us have been around. Simply amazing! (Or simply a great book sales strategy!)

How does he get away with this? How does he (falsely) claim that evidence of other hominoid forms on the planet prior to Homo Sapiens "fills only one coffin full of bones"?
Well the OP's article cited was from 1994, and obviously that coffin would not be overflowing with bones of our pregenitors that are actually MILLIONS of years old ! That's why! But if you buy into the "just a few thousand years ago" mythology, having only one or two coffins to fill would be easy to disregard.

But the evidence of more than just a coffin full of bones is mounting, dear Dr Ross!

The complete DNA sequencing of Neanderthal man, (last on this planet about 30,000 years ago, and probably our closest now extinct ancestral relative), shows striking similarities to Homo Sapiens, and almost identical sequencing to ours in 99%+ of his genome.

Well, we're beginning to get the picture here of Dr Ross, and the kind of talker he is.
He's like a used car salesman, telling us not to pay any attention to the high mileage, (or the bodies in the trunk). These are slick sales lines, they convince some buyers, but they are just a cover-up for the human species history in science that is clearly worthy of study. Dr Ross will convince you he's a legitimate scientist, he will give you 80% science from his vast astrophysical study. He will talk astronomy, geology, physics. But the last 20% will be the non-science from his Bible, complete with his warnings not to pay any attention to the science that disputes the Bible, the science that ("fills only one coffin full of bones").

Just as the magician focuses your attention away from what he's doing by waving one hand, he convinces you not to pay attention to the motion behind the curtain. And with the complete sequencing of humans and Neanderthal man, (not to mention other species), there is PLENTY of motion behind the curtain these days, motion Dr Ross wants you to ignore, like you can easily ignore what "fills only one coffin full of bones"! That's Dr. Ross at his most slick sales pitch best!

He's a flim flam artist, and he has found that he can sell more books to unsophisticated non-scientifically trained Bible followers than he can sell astrophysics texts to college grad students, simply because there are lots of people who WANT to believe their Bible is true, and will pay almost anything to get some "proof" from a scientist. The ill-informed and the gullible are many in our American society, just look around. The critical thinkers, the skeptics, the scientifically trained minds, not so many.

For those clearly curious about the formation of the universe and solar system, the Earth and other planets, for those who want to study the geomorphology of the planet, (volcanes, continental drift, tectonic plates, etc), for those who want to study the history of the evolution of biological species on this planet, I suggest you pay no attention to Dr Ross, and pay him no $ either for his books. Instead I suggest a trip to the local publica library. Ask the librarian to get you a good basic college textbook on any of those subjects. Ask for some videos or other material from a basic college course in planetary science, geologic history of the planet, history of life forms on Earth, etc. You'll learn a whole lot more and not get caught in the shoe-horn traps of non-scientific religious mythologies, no matter HOW "scientific" and appealing Dr Ross may look and sound, he's still preaching, not educating.

Do you not see that the atheistic evolutionist are doing the same thing ?

Do you not realize that Darwin and most of the influential advocates of Darwism and Neo Darwinism are doing the very same thing ? their God is secularism.