New Orleans

[trobinett]

If I may wade through the shit in here for a second....

Please, "wade" right in.

while the aftermath of Katrina will be a blight on Bush's legacy it also stands to mention how very incompetent Ray Nagin has been. Now, if the people keep electing him then so be it but his performance during the crisis was no better than Bush's or Brownie's. This far after the matter I don't have a lot of faith in Blanco either. There really is no point in pointing fingers at poor leadership in the white house when the dems who controlled the state and city were no more impressive. The entire affair was indicative of failure.

You, and I seem to be on the same page.

While it's necessary to help those in need it is also necessary to do so smartly while minimizing abuse of the system. I'm reminded of millionaires collecting insurance on homes built in locations that are clearly a hazard. The left doesn't seem to have a lot of sympathy for those victims of natural disasters but ant to give new orleans a blank check? who didn't know that southern LA was sitting dangerously below water level before building there? I mean, I want Madri Gras back with a vengeance too but Katrina was not the fault of those acting charitable.

Again, in complete agreement, well put.

I could make a joke comparing NO to Pompeii but I think you get my drift without having to do so.

We'll see.............

 

[SpidermanTuba]

Fuck you dip shit!

How bout YOU going down to New Orleans, and explaining to a bunch of fucking lunatics, that the gravy train has come to an end?

These are NOT productive citizens of this country, hell man, they aren't even productive citizens of New Orleans, and that's saying something.

They are seeing the cozy little world they lived in all these years yanked out from under them, and there fucking pissed off.

FUCK THEM, and free lunch wagon they road in on.

The welfare state has born these people, and the citizens of this country has a duty to cut their fucking heads off.

New Orleans seems like a good place to start.

Not true. The poor of New Orleans are the heartbeat of the culture here. The poor disproportionately produce more musicians and more artists than the rest of the city. In fact, what makes New Orleans unique among southern cities is that its predominantly poor, black population dominates the culture, from its food to its music to its traditions and artwork - and has for well over a century. Subsidized housing allows for the working poor, who might otherwise not be able to afford housing in the city, the ability to live here. Without it, the poor will not stay and not return, resulting in a decline of the cities unique culture. This would be a loss to any nation which values civilization. The effects are already witnessed by the decline in the number of professional musicians residing and performing in the city, as well as the smaller numbers of the various social groups responsible for carrying out the local traditions, such as the Mardi Gras Indian tribes. Potential tourists, however, should not look upon this as a reason to not visit. In fact, events which are normally excruciatingly crowed - such as Mardi Gras or the New Orleans Jazz and Heritage Festival - are less crowded and in fact more enjoyable because of it.

Plus its a great place to go watch Les Miles and the LSU Fighting Tigers kick the shit out of inferior opponents such as Notre Dame and Ohio State.

 

[AllieBaba]

So...you're proposing keeping them as PETS because POOR PEOPLE MAKE BETTER MUSICIANS???

Honestly. I don't even know what to say to that.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

So...you're proposing keeping them as PETS because POOR PEOPLE MAKE BETTER MUSICIANS???

Honestly. I don't even know what to say to that.

Where did I say the word 'pets' ? Nowhere. Nor did I use any of its synonyms. So obviously, that's not what I'm proposing.

Do you ordinarily put words into people's mouths, or do you do it only when you can't come up with a worthy counterargument?

 

[AllieBaba]

"The poor disproportionately produce more musicians and more artists than the rest of the city. In fact, what makes New Orleans unique among southern cities is that its predominantly poor, black population dominates the culture, from its food to its music to its traditions and artwork - and has for well over a century. Subsidized housing allows for the working poor, who might otherwise not be able to afford housing in the city, the ability to live here. Without it, the poor will not stay and not return, resulting in a decline of the cities unique culture. This would be a loss to any nation which values civilization."

Sounds like breeding pets to me. You don't want them to move on..you want to keep them in the poor housing in the poor city so the rich people can enjoy their music.

Keep that population in the cities! Don't let them out! Us cityfolk like our poor people food and music! We don't want somebody else to get them!

You can call it putting words into your mouth. Though you'll notice I didn't attribute those words to you.

A more civilized person would call it "paraphrasing".

But what do I know?

 

[trobinett]

Not true. The poor of New Orleans are the heartbeat of the culture here. The poor disproportionately produce more musicians and more artists than the rest of the city. In fact, what makes New Orleans unique among southern cities is that its predominantly poor, black population dominates the culture, from its food to its music to its traditions and artwork - and has for well over a century. Subsidized housing allows for the working poor, who might otherwise not be able to afford housing in the city, the ability to live here. Without it, the poor will not stay and not return, resulting in a decline of the cities unique culture. This would be a loss to any nation which values civilization. The effects are already witnessed by the decline in the number of professional musicians residing and performing in the city, as well as the smaller numbers of the various social groups responsible for carrying out the local traditions, such as the Mardi Gras Indian tribes. Potential tourists, however, should not look upon this as a reason to not visit. In fact, events which are normally excruciatingly crowed - such as Mardi Gras or the New Orleans Jazz and Heritage Festival - are less crowded and in fact more enjoyable because of it.

Plus its a great place to go watch Les Miles and the LSU Fighting Tigers kick the shit out of inferior opponents such as Notre Dame and Ohio State.

Well stated, AND presented.

I see your point, and I'm prepared to agree, to a point.

The poor disproportionately produce more musicians and more artists than the rest of the city.

Is this your "gut" feeling, or is there research data on this assertion?

I would only add, that don't you think it's worth it, to see if the scaling back of the welfare poor, and the resulting decrease in crime, might NOT effect the talent base as you suggest?

 

[SpidermanTuba]

"The poor disproportionately produce more musicians and more artists than the rest of the city. In fact, what makes New Orleans unique among southern cities is that its predominantly poor, black population dominates the culture, from its food to its music to its traditions and artwork - and has for well over a century. Subsidized housing allows for the working poor, who might otherwise not be able to afford housing in the city, the ability to live here. Without it, the poor will not stay and not return, resulting in a decline of the cities unique culture. This would be a loss to any nation which values civilization."

Sounds like breeding pets to me. You don't want them to move on..you want to keep them in the poor housing in the poor city so the rich people can enjoy their music.

Keep that population in the cities! Don't let them out! Us cityfolk like our poor people food and music! We don't want somebody else to get them!

You can call it putting words into your mouth. Though you'll notice I didn't attribute those words to you.

A more civilized person would call it "paraphrasing".

But what do I know?

You are suggesting I want to forcibly keep the poor in New Orleans. That's putting words in my mouth, because I didn't say, nor suggest that. When you want to argue with my actual viewpoints, instead of the ones you fabricate for the purpose of shooting down, let me know.

 

[AllieBaba]

If I'm putting words in your mouth, I'll say, "So and so says", nitwit.

If you're getting confused, just say so. But what you said reads as superior and condescending, and to hear anybody claim that living in tenement housing is "good" for the poor, while at the same time stating they want the poor to stick around because they make good music and good food makes me a little sick.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

Well stated, AND presented.

I see your point, and I'm prepared to agree, to a point.



Is this your "gut" feeling, or is there research data on this assertion?

I would only add, that don't you think it's worth it, to see if the scaling back of the welfare poor, and the resulting decrease in crime, might NOT effect the talent base as you suggest?

Its neither a 'gut' feeling nor something supporting by formal research (that I know of), its just common sense developed by living here.

Define 'welfare poor'? You can't just 'scale back' poverty, if it that were true we'd just scale it back to zero. Some of the housing projects in this city need to go, but they should be replaced as quickly as possible. There are more people who want to move back home to this city than who can. The city's economy can't recover without tourism coming back, but the tourism is supported by the culture, which is supported in large part by the lower class. Hence it would be a net positive to help people return, and for a lot of people, simply finding a place they can afford to rent is all they need to come back. There plenty of jobs, the problem is that rents have skyrocketed since the storm due to repair costs, increased insurance costs, and the reduction in supply of rental units due to the destruction.

 

[AllieBaba]

And the answer is...cheap, quickly built housing to rope those poor folks back.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

If I'm putting words in your mouth, I'll say, "So and so says", nitwit.

If you're getting confused, just say so. But what you said reads as superior and condescending, and to hear anybody claim that living in tenement housing is "good" for the poor, while at the same time stating they want the poor to stick around because they make good music and good food makes me a little sick.

I'm having trouble finding where I addressed anything having to do with my personal wants or desires, nor did I say anything about tenement housing. Again - you're putting words in my mouth. Seems its utterly impossible for you to argue without inventing things that I didn't say. You have yet to speak to anything I actually said, and your entire argument, based on lies about what I said, ignores the fact that there are thousands of people who WANT to move back to this city.

Superior and condescending to whom? Are you a former resident of New Orleans subsidized housing?

 

[SpidermanTuba]

And the answer is...cheap, quickly built housing to rope those poor folks back.

Why do you think that's the answer? And why would they need roping in, if they want to come back?

 

[BaronVonBigmeat]

The lady in the video is Sharon Jasper. Aside from the video, she was also featured in a story by the New Orleans Times-Picayune, covering the plight of New Orleans' poor.

Sharon Jasper, a former St. Bernard complex resident presented by activists Tuesday as a victim of changing public housing policies, took a moment before the start of the City Hall protest to complain about her subsidized private apartment, which she called a "slum." A HANO voucher covers her rent on a unit in an old Faubourg St. John home, but she said she faced several hundred dollars in deposit charges and now faces a steep utility bill.

"I'm tired of the slum landlords, and I'm tired of the slum houses," she said.

Pointing across the street to an encampment of homeless people at Duncan Plaza, Jasper said, "I might do better out here with one of these tents."

Jasper, who later allowed a photographer to tour the subsidized apartment, also complained about missing window screens, a slow leak in a sink, a warped back door and a few other details of a residence that otherwise appeared to have been recently renovated.

Oh the horrors! A...leaking sink! A back door that doesn't shut right! It's almost like...my grandmother's house! How will she ever get by??? Perhaps a 60" HDTV will be of some consolation.



more info

 

[AllieBaba]

Why do you think that's the answer? And why would they need roping in, if they want to come back?

I was being fascetious. In response to this:

"Subsidized housing allows for the working poor, who might otherwise not be able to afford housing in the city, the ability to live here. Without it, the poor will not stay and not return, resulting in a decline of the cities unique culture. This would be a loss to any nation which values civilization."

 

[trobinett]

The lady in the video is Sharon Jasper. Aside from the video, she was also featured in a story by the New Orleans Times-Picayune, covering the plight of New Orleans' poor.


Oh the horrors! A...leaking sink! A back door that doesn't shut right! It's almost like...my grandmother's house! How will she ever get by??? Perhaps a 60" HDTV will be of some consolation.



more info

Good piece BVB !