Nelson Mandela dead

[Asclepias]

R.C. do you notice anything odd about those who are cheering and praising Mandela for what he did before going to prison?
They are also the first to condemn Americans who would fight a tyrannical government here in America.

The big obvious difference is that the US government is a government of the peoples choosing. You go ahead with your silent cells. This isnt a video game.

The federal government no longer represents the will of the people.
You go ahead and think it does.

Mandela was fighting for a government that represented the will of his people. You keep thinking that some nuts with guns are going to overthrow the government put in place by the people that voted for it.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

The big obvious difference is that the US government is a government of the peoples choosing. You go ahead with your silent cells. This isnt a video game.

The federal government no longer represents the will of the people.
You go ahead and think it does.

Mandela was fighting for a government that represented the will of his people. You keep thinking that some nuts with guns are going to overthrow the government put in place by the people that voted for it.

So did Mandela take up arms against his government?
Was he also a nut with a gun or maybe it was the bombs he made.
So when was the last time this government did the will of the people?

 

[Asclepias]

The federal government no longer represents the will of the people.
You go ahead and think it does.

Mandela was fighting for a government that represented the will of his people. You keep thinking that some nuts with guns are going to overthrow the government put in place by the people that voted for it.

So did Mandela take up arms against his government?
Was he also a nut with a gun or maybe it was the bombs he made.
So when was the last time this government did the will of the people?

No he took up arms against a government not of his peoples choosing that stole land and colonized them. I dont follow SA government on a daily but I do remember when they elected Mandela.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Mandela was fighting for a government that represented the will of his people. You keep thinking that some nuts with guns are going to overthrow the government put in place by the people that voted for it.

So did Mandela take up arms against his government?
Was he also a nut with a gun or maybe it was the bombs he made.
So when was the last time this government did the will of the people?

No he took up arms against a government not of his peoples choosing that stole land and colonized them. I dont follow SA government on a daily but I do remember when they elected Mandela.

Not of his people? The people of South Africa or we talking about another country?
You do realize this government can do the same thing. Take everything you have and you not have any recourse. Eminent domain

 

[Asclepias]

So did Mandela take up arms against his government?
Was he also a nut with a gun or maybe it was the bombs he made.
So when was the last time this government did the will of the people?

No he took up arms against a government not of his peoples choosing that stole land and colonized them. I dont follow SA government on a daily but I do remember when they elected Mandela.

Not of his people? The people of South Africa or we talking about another country?
You do realize this government can do the same thing. Take everything you have and you not have any recourse. Eminent domain

Correct. South Africans did not ask white people to come steal their land and impose apartheid and a system of government that oppressed his people. Mandela fought against that type of government and fought for a government chosen democratically by his people. The people of South Africa.

I know the American government can claim eminent domain. What does that have to do with the topic?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

No he took up arms against a government not of his peoples choosing that stole land and colonized them. I dont follow SA government on a daily but I do remember when they elected Mandela.

Not of his people? The people of South Africa or we talking about another country?
You do realize this government can do the same thing. Take everything you have and you not have any recourse. Eminent domain

Correct. South Africans did not ask white people to come steal their land and impose apartheid and a system of government that oppressed his people. Mandela fought against that type of government and fought for a government chosen democratically by his people. The people of South Africa.

I know the American government can claim eminent domain. What does that have to do with the topic?

You made part of the topic when you said

a government not of his peoples choosing that stole land

The federal government no longer listen to the will of the people and can take everything you have.
Just like in South Africa.

 

[Black_Man1]

Why don't book a flight to South Africa and celebrate and yell that from the rooftops?


I'll donate a little change to get you started on your way!


In fact, let's all donate some money so all of you who are glad can go celebrate!???

 

[Asclepias]

Not of his people? The people of South Africa or we talking about another country?
You do realize this government can do the same thing. Take everything you have and you not have any recourse. Eminent domain

Correct. South Africans did not ask white people to come steal their land and impose apartheid and a system of government that oppressed his people. Mandela fought against that type of government and fought for a government chosen democratically by his people. The people of South Africa.

I know the American government can claim eminent domain. What does that have to do with the topic?

You made part of the topic when you said

a government not of his peoples choosing that stole land

The federal government no longer listen to the will of the people and can take everything you have.
Just like in South Africa.

The American government was voted in by Americans. The South African government was imposed on the natives. They didn't vote for it. Do you get the difference?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Correct. South Africans did not ask white people to come steal their land and impose apartheid and a system of government that oppressed his people. Mandela fought against that type of government and fought for a government chosen democratically by his people. The people of South Africa.

I know the American government can claim eminent domain. What does that have to do with the topic?

You made part of the topic when you said

a government not of his peoples choosing that stole land

The federal government no longer listen to the will of the people and can take everything you have.
Just like in South Africa.

The American government was voted in by Americans. The South African government was imposed on the natives. They didn't vote for it. Do you get the difference?

Regardless of who voted or what. It's a matter of representation. The U.S. government no longer represents the will of the people.

 

[Asclepias]

You made part of the topic when you said

The federal government no longer listen to the will of the people and can take everything you have.
Just like in South Africa.

The American government was voted in by Americans. The South African government was imposed on the natives. They didn't vote for it. Do you get the difference?

Regardless of who voted or what. It's a matter of representation. The U.S. government no longer represents the will of the people.

Which has what to do with the topic? Mandela is a hero and rightfully so for fighting against a government put in place by foreign invaders. You and your splinter cells want to overthrow a government voted in by it citizens. 2 vastly different things if you are searching for the same praise Mandela deserves for his accomplishments vs your day dreams.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

The American government was voted in by Americans. The South African government was imposed on the natives. They didn't vote for it. Do you get the difference?

Regardless of who voted or what. It's a matter of representation. The U.S. government no longer represents the will of the people.

Which has what to do with the topic? Mandela is a hero and rightfully so for fighting against a government put in place by foreign invaders. You and your splinter cells want to overthrow a government voted in by it citizens. 2 vastly different things if you are searching for the same praise Mandela deserves for his accomplishments vs your day dreams.

Stop changing the subject, when your point of view has been countered. And then say what does it have to do with the topic. A government put in place by foreign invaders, is no different than a government that no longer represents the will of the people.
You can't cheer Mandela and turn around and condemn Americans for doing the exact same thing for the same reason.

 

[Asclepias]

Regardless of who voted or what. It's a matter of representation. The U.S. government no longer represents the will of the people.

Which has what to do with the topic? Mandela is a hero and rightfully so for fighting against a government put in place by foreign invaders. You and your splinter cells want to overthrow a government voted in by it citizens. 2 vastly different things if you are searching for the same praise Mandela deserves for his accomplishments vs your day dreams.

Stop changing the subject, when your point of view has been countered. And then say what does it have to do with the topic. A government put in place by foreign invaders, is no different than a government that no longer represents the will of the people.
You can't cheer Mandela and turn around and condemn Americans for doing the exact same thing for the same reason.

That only works if they are doing the exact same thing as Mandela did which they are not as I already explained to you. You never countered my point of view you just changed the subject trying to drum up support for your planned overthrow of the US government. The whole entire point is that Mandela was a freedom fighter. You are not but think you are.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Which has what to do with the topic? Mandela is a hero and rightfully so for fighting against a government put in place by foreign invaders. You and your splinter cells want to overthrow a government voted in by it citizens. 2 vastly different things if you are searching for the same praise Mandela deserves for his accomplishments vs your day dreams.

Stop changing the subject, when your point of view has been countered. And then say what does it have to do with the topic. A government put in place by foreign invaders, is no different than a government that no longer represents the will of the people.
You can't cheer Mandela and turn around and condemn Americans for doing the exact same thing for the same reason.

That only works if they are doing the exact same thing as Mandela did which they are not as I already explained to you. You never countered my point of view you just changed the subject trying to drum up support for your planned overthrow of the US government. The whole entire point is that Mandela was a freedom fighter. You are not but think you are.

You're the one that keeps changing the subject when countered.
Stop putting words into the subject that I have not stated.

Now back to our little discussion
What is the difference between the government you described in South Africa and the one I described?

 

[Asclepias]

Stop changing the subject, when your point of view has been countered. And then say what does it have to do with the topic. A government put in place by foreign invaders, is no different than a government that no longer represents the will of the people.
You can't cheer Mandela and turn around and condemn Americans for doing the exact same thing for the same reason.

That only works if they are doing the exact same thing as Mandela did which they are not as I already explained to you. You never countered my point of view you just changed the subject trying to drum up support for your planned overthrow of the US government. The whole entire point is that Mandela was a freedom fighter. You are not but think you are.

You're the one that keeps changing the subject when countered.
Stop putting words into the subject that I have not stated.

Now back to our little discussion
What is the difference between the government you described in South Africa and the one I described?

Don't change the subject again. This is not about your cause. Its about Mandela and what he did. Are you really having that hard of a time time reading and comprehending what the difference was?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

That only works if they are doing the exact same thing as Mandela did which they are not as I already explained to you. You never countered my point of view you just changed the subject trying to drum up support for your planned overthrow of the US government. The whole entire point is that Mandela was a freedom fighter. You are not but think you are.

You're the one that keeps changing the subject when countered.
Stop putting words into the subject that I have not stated.

Now back to our little discussion
What is the difference between the government you described in South Africa and the one I described?

Don't change the subject again. This is not about your cause. Its about Mandela and what he did. Are you really having that hard of a time time reading and comprehending what the difference was?

I'm not changing the subject. I find it interesting that you praise mandela for his actions but turn around and condemn Americans for doing the same thing.

 

[BDBoop]

 

[Peterf]

Another aspect that it not being told is why and how Mandela reluctantly decided to use force. The why is because of Sharpeville. About 5000 blacks were holding a peaceful protest against the new passbook laws when the police opened fire on the crowd without any provocation. At least 65 were killed and many more injured. That was the why but when it came to the how Mandela insisted that they attack only infrastructure and not people. They went after remote substations and buildings at night when no one was around. This policy then transformed in the 1980's into the passive resistance that made the nation essentially ungovernable.

As far the violence that was done to people that was primarily the South African Police's doing. However over time there were splinter groups of blacks that took more violent action. This violence on both sides is documented in the Truth and Reconciliation Commission transcripts. It is worth reading some samples to get an idea of both the magnitude and how it transformed the nation and brought closure to the ugliness of the Apartheid era. That too was something that belongs as a lasting aspect of Mandela's Legacy.

The terrible Sharpeville massacre, where 65 were killed, certainly had a big effect on Mr Mandela.

Last year 34 striking African miners were murdered by the Police who opened fire on them without any provocation. Don't those who pretend that all is now sweetness and light in the New South Africa.

You must have missed all of my posts where I point out that South Africa is a libertarian paradise these days!

Maybe I didn't miss them. You know it could be that I consider Jacob Zuma's regime to be oppressive, not 'libertarian'.

 

[Asclepias]

You're the one that keeps changing the subject when countered.
Stop putting words into the subject that I have not stated.

Now back to our little discussion
What is the difference between the government you described in South Africa and the one I described?

Don't change the subject again. This is not about your cause. Its about Mandela and what he did. Are you really having that hard of a time time reading and comprehending what the difference was?

I'm not changing the subject. I find it interesting that you praise mandela for his actions but turn around and condemn Americans for doing the same thing.

What makes you think its the same thing besides the fact that both were/are governments? Mandela fought to install a government for his people in place of one not voted in by his people. We live where the complete and total opposite is true. How are you missing that? Like really....I want to know.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Don't change the subject again. This is not about your cause. Its about Mandela and what he did. Are you really having that hard of a time time reading and comprehending what the difference was?

I'm not changing the subject. I find it interesting that you praise mandela for his actions but turn around and condemn Americans for doing the same thing.

What makes you think its the same thing besides the fact that both were/are governments? Mandela fought to install a government for his people in place of one not voted in by his people. We live where the complete and total opposite is true. How are you missing that? Like really I want to know.

the government does not represent the will of the people, it hasn't for a long time and it's getting worse. How are you missing that? An installed government is no different than a government that does not represent the will of the people.

 

[BDBoop]

And conversely, if you don't have justice on your side, you will be defeated - like the confederacy.