Nelson Mandela dead

[Derideo_Te]

No, Mandela didn't, but his group did. Whether the gov was trying to use his denouncing of the violence as a political tool or not, he still should have. He could have used that opportunity to denounce the violence and the violence conducted by the government.

Unrealistic because the Apartheid regime would have censored what he said.

"Inspired by Fidel Castro's 26th of July Movement in the Cuban Revolution, in 1961 Mandela co-founded Umkhonto we Sizwe ("Spear of the Nation", abbreviated MK) with Sisulu and the communist Joe Slovo. Becoming chairman of the militant group, he gained ideas from illegal literature on guerilla warfare by Mao and Che Guevara. Officially separate from the ANC, in later years MK became the group's armed wing." I would say that at least Mao and Castro were some of the "greatest" influences. Mao is the most troubling considering he murdered millions.

Guilt by association now?

The events in the 1980s took place 25 years after he was made "chairman" and he was incommunicado for most of the time. He wasn't the only person reading those books and he most certainly wasn't training anyone on how to "kill millions".

Like I already said, my opinion is not yet decided. He should not be separated from the group he created.

Sounds to me as though you already have!

 

[SGT_Kat]

Unrealistic because the Apartheid regime would have censored what he said.

Guilt by association now?

The events in the 1980s took place 25 years after he was made "chairman" and he was incommunicado for most of the time. He wasn't the only person reading those books and he most certainly wasn't training anyone on how to "kill millions".

Like I already said, my opinion is not yet decided. He should not be separated from the group he created.

Sounds to me as though you already have!

I hold this standard for all leaders.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Like I already said, my opinion is not yet decided. He should not be separated from the group he created.

Sounds to me as though you already have!

I hold this standard for all leaders.

Define the attributes of leaders.

 

[SGT_Kat]

Sounds to me as though you already have!

I hold this standard for all leaders.

Define the attributes of leaders.

Being accountable for what you started for one thing.

 

[Derideo_Te]

I hold this standard for all leaders.

Define the attributes of leaders.

Being accountable for what you started for one thing.

You don't understand what leadership entails and yet you hold Mandela to some some arbitrary standard of your own making. Have a nice day.

 

[Unkotare]

The only parallel between the US and South Africa exists when it comes to the overthrow of an oppressive government that was not elected by the people was the Revolutionary War. In that respect Mandela is like George Washington. Your attempt to allege that the US government no longer represents the will of the people will be reported if you persist in trying to deflect from the OP.

So a government that does not represent the will of the people and creates laws that strip it citizens of their rights is ok and should not be brought down?
OH and who controls the U.S. election system?

XXXXXX .

Personal references to violence are counterproductive and likely to lead off-topic again.


Despite his endurance, forbearance, and symbolic significance, I fail to see how Mandela was like George Washington. Not an apt comparison, I think.

 

[R.C. Christian]

Not even remotely comparable.

 

[Unkotare]

An interesting take:

The Angry Man



Think Again: Nelson Mandela

 

[bigrebnc1775]

The only parallel between the US and South Africa exists when it comes to the overthrow of an oppressive government that was not elected by the people was the Revolutionary War. In that respect Mandela is like George Washington. Your attempt to allege that the US government no longer represents the will of the people will be reported if you persist in trying to deflect from the OP.

So a government that does not represent the will of the people and creates laws that strip it citizens of their rights is ok and should not be brought down?
OH and who controls the U.S. election system?

You are stuck in a loop. XXXXXXX Your impending war against the US government elected by the people has nothing to do with Mandela's fight to overthrow a government imposed on his people.

Lot of bull shit in this post^^^^^^^
So you think a government that does not listen to the will of the people is a government worth keeping?

 

[theliq]

So a government that does not represent the will of the people and creates laws that strip it citizens of their rights is ok and should not be brought down?
OH and who controls the U.S. election system?

You are stuck in a loop. Have the nearest person to you smack you in the back of the head. .

Personal references to violence are counterproductive and likely to lead off-topic again.


Despite his endurance, forbearance, and symbolic significance, I fail to see how Mandela was like George Washington. Not an apt comparison, I think.

Cometh the time Unko......Cometh the MAN.....Both are(were) Brilliant Statesmen that no one can Deny......steve...No Comparison Needed.

 

[Peterf]

Our founders engaged in arson, lynching and tar and feathering of those who remained loyal to the crown.

The - few? - lynchings of loyalists were targeted murder not indiscriminate murder and not, therefore, terrorism. And not, of course, aimed directly at the British.

The actions of the Sons of Liberty would classify them as terrorists under the definition that you applied to Mandela and the ANC.

OK, I'll take your word for it: the 'Sons of Liberty' were terrorists. As is anyone who seeks to indiscriminately kill to inspire terror.

 

[Peterf]

George Washington was considered to be a terrorist by the British yanno...

​

No I don't know. I think you are just making this up. I've never seen anything to support your statement.

 

[Peterf]

My opinion on the man is still up in the air. I didn't know much about his so I've been doing a lot of research (I will not make an opinion on any person with out first learning about them). I do agree that his fight against the apartheid was very justified. The apartheid was pure evil. I commend his initial effort to keep the revolution non-violent.

However, there are some connections that have me worried. His greatest influences were Karl Marx, Friedrich Engels, Vladimir Lenin, Joseph Stalin and Mao Zedong. He had connections with many communist parties and was inspired by Fidel Castro's 26th of July Movement in the Cuban Revolution to create the Umkhonto we Sizwe (MK). The MK at first only targeted gov and military installations, but started killing civilians in the 1980s. Mandela refuse to denounce these crimes against humanity by a group he started.

Again, I must learn more before I come to any conclusions about the man.

You are wrong about his "greatest influences". He was raised a Christian and never reconciled his faith with communism. You might want to do some research in that direction.

Both Stalin and Hitler were raised as Christians. The former was for a time a student at an Orthodox seminary. (And so was I but let's leave that to one side).

 

[Derideo_Te]

My opinion on the man is still up in the air. I didn't know much about his so I've been doing a lot of research (I will not make an opinion on any person with out first learning about them). I do agree that his fight against the apartheid was very justified. The apartheid was pure evil. I commend his initial effort to keep the revolution non-violent.

However, there are some connections that have me worried. His greatest influences were Karl Marx, Friedrich Engels, Vladimir Lenin, Joseph Stalin and Mao Zedong. He had connections with many communist parties and was inspired by Fidel Castro's 26th of July Movement in the Cuban Revolution to create the Umkhonto we Sizwe (MK). The MK at first only targeted gov and military installations, but started killing civilians in the 1980s. Mandela refuse to denounce these crimes against humanity by a group he started.

Again, I must learn more before I come to any conclusions about the man.

You are wrong about his "greatest influences". He was raised a Christian and never reconciled his faith with communism. You might want to do some research in that direction.

Both Stalin and Hitler were raised as Christians. The former was for a time a student at an Orthodox seminary. (And so was I but let's leave that to one side).

Godwin's law confirms your lack of credibility.

 

[paperview]

 

[Pennywise]

President Barrack Ochimpy just delivered more self-aggrandizing vomit, shouting like the perpetual community organizer, reflecting on Mandeada only long enough to put the spotlight back on hisownself.

To be an American today, is to hang one's head like a retarded cripple with a cleft lip.

 

[Pennywise]

This just in- Nelson Mandella still dead. Back to you, Bob.

 

[wavingrl]

Obama shook Raul Castro's hand. CNN has already explained--given the circumstances --it would have been awkward to do otherwise.

That is enough for me.

 

[paperview]

Today is the first day in my life

my loving, wonderful father

is no longer on this earth.

He is up in the heavens with Mandela.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Mandela did something that few others in his circumstances would have done.

When given the opportunity he forgave his enemies.

As president Mandela had the power to extract reparations for what was done to himself and millions of others by the Apartheid regime.

But instead he forgave them and offered the hand of friendship and peace.

That is what Jesus would have done.

And that is why Mandela will always be remembered as a great man. He arose above and beyond the hatred. He reached out to his oppressors and embraced them. He treated them with respect as human beings.

Above all Mandela has shown us a way to overcome our own petty differences. We too can put the past aside and move forward together in friendship and peace.