Mueller : Trump is guilty of obstruction. Congress should handle it. Don't bother me again.

[Ray From Cleveland]

Trump is addressing our trade deficit. Other countries are (and have always) been tariffing our exports. Trump is only asking to make it more even.

In other words lets say you and I were alive many years ago, and we were both farmers. I would trade you a bushel of tomatoes for your bushel of grapefruits. As time went on, you kept getting away with me providing two bushels of tomatoes for your bushel of grapefruits, then three, then four.

China has been the worst offender in all this. They owe their economy to the American consumer, yet they've been screwing us all these years.

I don't like tariffs either, but what other option do we have to straighten this problem out but tariffs? After all, all our trading partners knew America was scared to death to address this problem. It won't be solved overnight either.

So let it play out for a year or two after the dust settles. If it doesn't work, then future leaders will have something to study so we don't do it again, or perhaps find a better way of doing it.

I don't understand what you expect China to do. China hasn’t been pushing down its currency to benefit Chinese exporters in years. Chinese companies do steal intellectual properties, however China has announced stringent regulations and laws to deal with IP theft. Of the 50 nations with most trade with the US, China ranks better than most these countries in protecting IP.

I suggest that the real problem behind the trade imbalance is not the lack of IP protection nor currency manipulation but the fact that Chinese companies are producing higher quality goods at lower prices.

Well then I don't know what kind of Chinese shit you are buying. China makes cheap crap. The reason it sells in America is because in most cases, we no longer care about quality, we care about prices.

A few of our customers went to China to buy their products or have their products shipped there for processing. Many quit using China because the workmanship was substandard. They kept having to ship all the rejects back, and have it shipped back to them after re-processing. It got quite cumbersome.

In the end, their customers became angry or they lost the customer altogether because of the waiting time. Even though a few bucks more, they actually did better dealing with American companies.

From personal experience, I would say China has gotten better. I used to hate picking up overseas freight because it was damaged most of the time. They would stack small crates on top of each other in a container. These crates weighed about 1,500 each. So the bottom crate always had 7,000 lbs on top of it, and it would crush on the way here. They simply didn't care.

Now when I pickup overseas freight, it's usually in good condition.

The Chinese make cheap crap but they also make some of the highest quality products in the world. Your beliefs reflects a long-standing view that products made in China are junk. This goes back to the time when China produces only the cheapest low end products. That is certainly not the case today. You can buy high quality Chinese products but you pay far more than the cheapest versions of the product. Last year I bought 4 braided 6 foot USB cables manufactured in China from Amazon and I paid $4.65. A year later one has failed. I could have bought quality cables made in China but I would have paid almost $4 each.

Today, the most reliable cell phones on the market according to consumer reports is the Apple iPhone and Samsung Galaxy. The Iphone is manufactured in China and over 75% of parts of the Samsung Galaxy is manufactured in China. If you have an operation today, you will likely find that much of surgical equipment is made in china. Where 30 years ago Chinese optics meant dime store binoculars and prizes in cereal boxes, today the Chinese are producing optics that come very close to best in world at a far lower price.

The chances are the most critical components in your computer, the CPU, Memory, or motherboard is manufactured in China. Today 90% of the motherboards in computers sold in the US are manufactured in China.

When you buy Chinese products you can buy cheap junk or more expensive quality products. It's the customers choice.

Believe it or not, the Chinese buy a lot of iPhones. But not all the parts are made in China. Most of their work is assembly. The design and technology comes out of California, and the actual parts of the phone come from all over the world.

Manufacturers like to produce close to their customers to minimize transportation costs. So it makes sense to have those phones assembled there. I've been an iPhone user for about four years now, and I never had a major problem with the phones. I have an iPhone X now.

Designed in California, made in China: how the iPhone skews U.S. trade deficit - Reuters

While technology may be on a different level, China still produces the cheapest crap when it comes to household goods which is probably the heart of the deficit. We used to deliver to a company that made cat scan kinds of machines. They sold all over the world. We delivered wood there because our customer was one of the only places that had bark-free wood. The crates for the machines had to be bark-free to pass customs overseas. Bark is where insects can hide. Eventually, China found out how to produce bark-free wood, and our customer lost that account.

China produces what importers want. If importers want cheap junk, China will produce. If they want quality, China will produce. The problem is not China it is American consumers who will buy the cheapest crap on Amazon or other retailers hoping they get quality merchandise.

That is absolutely correct. People blame big business, union deterioration, Walmart. But the truth is it all boils down to the American consumer.

I'll never forget the time I went to our first discount store in the area. This was back in the early 80's when I was very young. What you did is fill out a slip, pay the cashier, and then wait behind a counter where products were coming down on a conveyer belt from the second floor to fill the orders.

Next to me was an elderly gentleman. He kept looking around and shaking his head almost like in disgust. He noticed me staring and felt compelled to explain.

He said "I'm from Europe. I always come here to visit my children and grandchildren at Christmas. I love America. My children are American, my grandchildren are American, but what I see going on here is very disturbing. You see, in Europe, if you have a baseball, it's the best baseball money can buy. You are proud of your baseball, you take care of your baseball. What is happening in America now is nobody cares if it's the best baseball, they care if they have a lot cheap baseballs. If this keeps up, this will be a huge problem in your country."

At the time, I just figured it was some old guy not knowing what he was talking about. As time went on and I seen changes, that old man was a genius.

 

[Flopper]

I don't understand what you expect China to do. China hasn’t been pushing down its currency to benefit Chinese exporters in years. Chinese companies do steal intellectual properties, however China has announced stringent regulations and laws to deal with IP theft. Of the 50 nations with most trade with the US, China ranks better than most these countries in protecting IP.

I suggest that the real problem behind the trade imbalance is not the lack of IP protection nor currency manipulation but the fact that Chinese companies are producing higher quality goods at lower prices.

Well then I don't know what kind of Chinese shit you are buying. China makes cheap crap. The reason it sells in America is because in most cases, we no longer care about quality, we care about prices.

A few of our customers went to China to buy their products or have their products shipped there for processing. Many quit using China because the workmanship was substandard. They kept having to ship all the rejects back, and have it shipped back to them after re-processing. It got quite cumbersome.

In the end, their customers became angry or they lost the customer altogether because of the waiting time. Even though a few bucks more, they actually did better dealing with American companies.

From personal experience, I would say China has gotten better. I used to hate picking up overseas freight because it was damaged most of the time. They would stack small crates on top of each other in a container. These crates weighed about 1,500 each. So the bottom crate always had 7,000 lbs on top of it, and it would crush on the way here. They simply didn't care.

Now when I pickup overseas freight, it's usually in good condition.

The Chinese make cheap crap but they also make some of the highest quality products in the world. Your beliefs reflects a long-standing view that products made in China are junk. This goes back to the time when China produces only the cheapest low end products. That is certainly not the case today. You can buy high quality Chinese products but you pay far more than the cheapest versions of the product. Last year I bought 4 braided 6 foot USB cables manufactured in China from Amazon and I paid $4.65. A year later one has failed. I could have bought quality cables made in China but I would have paid almost $4 each.

Today, the most reliable cell phones on the market according to consumer reports is the Apple iPhone and Samsung Galaxy. The Iphone is manufactured in China and over 75% of parts of the Samsung Galaxy is manufactured in China. If you have an operation today, you will likely find that much of surgical equipment is made in china. Where 30 years ago Chinese optics meant dime store binoculars and prizes in cereal boxes, today the Chinese are producing optics that come very close to best in world at a far lower price.

The chances are the most critical components in your computer, the CPU, Memory, or motherboard is manufactured in China. Today 90% of the motherboards in computers sold in the US are manufactured in China.

When you buy Chinese products you can buy cheap junk or more expensive quality products. It's the customers choice.

Believe it or not, the Chinese buy a lot of iPhones. But not all the parts are made in China. Most of their work is assembly. The design and technology comes out of California, and the actual parts of the phone come from all over the world.

Manufacturers like to produce close to their customers to minimize transportation costs. So it makes sense to have those phones assembled there. I've been an iPhone user for about four years now, and I never had a major problem with the phones. I have an iPhone X now.

Designed in California, made in China: how the iPhone skews U.S. trade deficit - Reuters

While technology may be on a different level, China still produces the cheapest crap when it comes to household goods which is probably the heart of the deficit. We used to deliver to a company that made cat scan kinds of machines. They sold all over the world. We delivered wood there because our customer was one of the only places that had bark-free wood. The crates for the machines had to be bark-free to pass customs overseas. Bark is where insects can hide. Eventually, China found out how to produce bark-free wood, and our customer lost that account.

China produces what importers want. If importers want cheap junk, China will produce. If they want quality, China will produce. The problem is not China it is American consumers who will buy the cheapest crap on Amazon or other retailers hoping they get quality merchandise.

That is absolutely correct. People blame big business, union deterioration, Walmart. But the truth is it all boils down to the American consumer.

I'll never forget the time I went to our first discount store in the area. This was back in the early 80's when I was very young. What you did is fill out a slip, pay the cashier, and then wait behind a counter where products were coming down on a conveyer belt from the second floor to fill the orders.

Next to me was an elderly gentleman. He kept looking around and shaking his head almost like in disgust. He noticed me staring and felt compelled to explain.

He said "I'm from Europe. I always come here to visit my children and grandchildren at Christmas. I love America. My children are American, my grandchildren are American, but what I see going on here is very disturbing. You see, in Europe, if you have a baseball, it's the best baseball money can buy. You are proud of your baseball, you take care of your baseball. What is happening in America now is nobody cares if it's the best baseball, they care if they have a lot cheap baseballs. If this keeps up, this will be a huge problem in your country."

At the time, I just figured it was some old guy not knowing what he was talking about. As time went on and I seen changes, that old man was a genius.

I don't remember discounts stores working like that but I can see that might well be the case. We live in a throw away society today. We don't buy furniture any more to last a life time, we buy it for the home we live in and dispose of it when we move. We don't demand that our appliance last ten years and so they don't. When we buy small appliance or inexpensive electronics and it stops working in 6 months, we don't raise hell with the retailer, we just throw it away and buy another one. We are sending a message that we don't care about quality and retailers and manufactures are listening.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Well then I don't know what kind of Chinese shit you are buying. China makes cheap crap. The reason it sells in America is because in most cases, we no longer care about quality, we care about prices.

A few of our customers went to China to buy their products or have their products shipped there for processing. Many quit using China because the workmanship was substandard. They kept having to ship all the rejects back, and have it shipped back to them after re-processing. It got quite cumbersome.

In the end, their customers became angry or they lost the customer altogether because of the waiting time. Even though a few bucks more, they actually did better dealing with American companies.

From personal experience, I would say China has gotten better. I used to hate picking up overseas freight because it was damaged most of the time. They would stack small crates on top of each other in a container. These crates weighed about 1,500 each. So the bottom crate always had 7,000 lbs on top of it, and it would crush on the way here. They simply didn't care.

Now when I pickup overseas freight, it's usually in good condition.

The Chinese make cheap crap but they also make some of the highest quality products in the world. Your beliefs reflects a long-standing view that products made in China are junk. This goes back to the time when China produces only the cheapest low end products. That is certainly not the case today. You can buy high quality Chinese products but you pay far more than the cheapest versions of the product. Last year I bought 4 braided 6 foot USB cables manufactured in China from Amazon and I paid $4.65. A year later one has failed. I could have bought quality cables made in China but I would have paid almost $4 each.

Today, the most reliable cell phones on the market according to consumer reports is the Apple iPhone and Samsung Galaxy. The Iphone is manufactured in China and over 75% of parts of the Samsung Galaxy is manufactured in China. If you have an operation today, you will likely find that much of surgical equipment is made in china. Where 30 years ago Chinese optics meant dime store binoculars and prizes in cereal boxes, today the Chinese are producing optics that come very close to best in world at a far lower price.

The chances are the most critical components in your computer, the CPU, Memory, or motherboard is manufactured in China. Today 90% of the motherboards in computers sold in the US are manufactured in China.

When you buy Chinese products you can buy cheap junk or more expensive quality products. It's the customers choice.

Believe it or not, the Chinese buy a lot of iPhones. But not all the parts are made in China. Most of their work is assembly. The design and technology comes out of California, and the actual parts of the phone come from all over the world.

Manufacturers like to produce close to their customers to minimize transportation costs. So it makes sense to have those phones assembled there. I've been an iPhone user for about four years now, and I never had a major problem with the phones. I have an iPhone X now.

Designed in California, made in China: how the iPhone skews U.S. trade deficit - Reuters

While technology may be on a different level, China still produces the cheapest crap when it comes to household goods which is probably the heart of the deficit. We used to deliver to a company that made cat scan kinds of machines. They sold all over the world. We delivered wood there because our customer was one of the only places that had bark-free wood. The crates for the machines had to be bark-free to pass customs overseas. Bark is where insects can hide. Eventually, China found out how to produce bark-free wood, and our customer lost that account.

China produces what importers want. If importers want cheap junk, China will produce. If they want quality, China will produce. The problem is not China it is American consumers who will buy the cheapest crap on Amazon or other retailers hoping they get quality merchandise.

That is absolutely correct. People blame big business, union deterioration, Walmart. But the truth is it all boils down to the American consumer.

I'll never forget the time I went to our first discount store in the area. This was back in the early 80's when I was very young. What you did is fill out a slip, pay the cashier, and then wait behind a counter where products were coming down on a conveyer belt from the second floor to fill the orders.

Next to me was an elderly gentleman. He kept looking around and shaking his head almost like in disgust. He noticed me staring and felt compelled to explain.

He said "I'm from Europe. I always come here to visit my children and grandchildren at Christmas. I love America. My children are American, my grandchildren are American, but what I see going on here is very disturbing. You see, in Europe, if you have a baseball, it's the best baseball money can buy. You are proud of your baseball, you take care of your baseball. What is happening in America now is nobody cares if it's the best baseball, they care if they have a lot cheap baseballs. If this keeps up, this will be a huge problem in your country."

At the time, I just figured it was some old guy not knowing what he was talking about. As time went on and I seen changes, that old man was a genius.

I don't remember discounts stores working like that but I can see that might well be the case. We live in a throw away society today. We don't buy furniture any more to last a life time, we buy it for the home we live in and dispose of it when we move. We don't demand that our appliance last ten years and so they don't. When we buy small appliance or inexpensive electronics and it stops working in 6 months, we don't raise hell with the retailer, we just throw it away and buy another one. We are sending a message that we don't care about quality and retailers and manufactures are listening.

I remember when I was a child watching the Andy Griffith show. They had a character named Emmett Clark. He was the appliance repairman. He fixed radios, toasters, blenders.......

At the time, the show reflected our lifestyle back then. We never threw anything out that could be repaired. My grandmother lived in the downstairs apartment of a double house with us. Her living room furniture was all covered in plastic. She and my grandfather didn't believe in air conditioning, and we used to sit on that furniture and sweat like all hell in the summer. But her theory was that when she died 30 years later, her children could inherit that furniture, so she was trying to preserve it for the next generation. It was ugly to boot!

We used to refill our cigarette lighters with fluid. Today we throw them away. We used to replace razor blades in our shavers, today they are plastic and we throw them away. We used to put film in our cameras, today they are all disposable, and we throw them away. We used to take our milk bottles, beer bottles, pop bottles back to the store to get our refund back. Today we throw all that away. We used to have diaper services to bring mothers fresh diapers and take the soiled ones to be cleaned. Today all diapers are disposable, and they are tossed in the garbage.

 

[Flopper]

The Chinese make cheap crap but they also make some of the highest quality products in the world. Your beliefs reflects a long-standing view that products made in China are junk. This goes back to the time when China produces only the cheapest low end products. That is certainly not the case today. You can buy high quality Chinese products but you pay far more than the cheapest versions of the product. Last year I bought 4 braided 6 foot USB cables manufactured in China from Amazon and I paid $4.65. A year later one has failed. I could have bought quality cables made in China but I would have paid almost $4 each.

Today, the most reliable cell phones on the market according to consumer reports is the Apple iPhone and Samsung Galaxy. The Iphone is manufactured in China and over 75% of parts of the Samsung Galaxy is manufactured in China. If you have an operation today, you will likely find that much of surgical equipment is made in china. Where 30 years ago Chinese optics meant dime store binoculars and prizes in cereal boxes, today the Chinese are producing optics that come very close to best in world at a far lower price.

The chances are the most critical components in your computer, the CPU, Memory, or motherboard is manufactured in China. Today 90% of the motherboards in computers sold in the US are manufactured in China.

When you buy Chinese products you can buy cheap junk or more expensive quality products. It's the customers choice.

Believe it or not, the Chinese buy a lot of iPhones. But not all the parts are made in China. Most of their work is assembly. The design and technology comes out of California, and the actual parts of the phone come from all over the world.

Manufacturers like to produce close to their customers to minimize transportation costs. So it makes sense to have those phones assembled there. I've been an iPhone user for about four years now, and I never had a major problem with the phones. I have an iPhone X now.

Designed in California, made in China: how the iPhone skews U.S. trade deficit - Reuters

While technology may be on a different level, China still produces the cheapest crap when it comes to household goods which is probably the heart of the deficit. We used to deliver to a company that made cat scan kinds of machines. They sold all over the world. We delivered wood there because our customer was one of the only places that had bark-free wood. The crates for the machines had to be bark-free to pass customs overseas. Bark is where insects can hide. Eventually, China found out how to produce bark-free wood, and our customer lost that account.

China produces what importers want. If importers want cheap junk, China will produce. If they want quality, China will produce. The problem is not China it is American consumers who will buy the cheapest crap on Amazon or other retailers hoping they get quality merchandise.

That is absolutely correct. People blame big business, union deterioration, Walmart. But the truth is it all boils down to the American consumer.

I'll never forget the time I went to our first discount store in the area. This was back in the early 80's when I was very young. What you did is fill out a slip, pay the cashier, and then wait behind a counter where products were coming down on a conveyer belt from the second floor to fill the orders.

Next to me was an elderly gentleman. He kept looking around and shaking his head almost like in disgust. He noticed me staring and felt compelled to explain.

He said "I'm from Europe. I always come here to visit my children and grandchildren at Christmas. I love America. My children are American, my grandchildren are American, but what I see going on here is very disturbing. You see, in Europe, if you have a baseball, it's the best baseball money can buy. You are proud of your baseball, you take care of your baseball. What is happening in America now is nobody cares if it's the best baseball, they care if they have a lot cheap baseballs. If this keeps up, this will be a huge problem in your country."

At the time, I just figured it was some old guy not knowing what he was talking about. As time went on and I seen changes, that old man was a genius.

I don't remember discounts stores working like that but I can see that might well be the case. We live in a throw away society today. We don't buy furniture any more to last a life time, we buy it for the home we live in and dispose of it when we move. We don't demand that our appliance last ten years and so they don't. When we buy small appliance or inexpensive electronics and it stops working in 6 months, we don't raise hell with the retailer, we just throw it away and buy another one. We are sending a message that we don't care about quality and retailers and manufactures are listening.

I remember when I was a child watching the Andy Griffith show. They had a character named Emmett Clark. He was the appliance repairman. He fixed radios, toasters, blenders.......

At the time, the show reflected our lifestyle back then. We never threw anything out that could be repaired. My grandmother lived in the downstairs apartment of a double house with us. Her living room furniture was all covered in plastic. She and my grandfather didn't believe in air conditioning, and we used to sit on that furniture and sweat like all hell in the summer. But her theory was that when she died 30 years later, her children could inherit that furniture, so she was trying to preserve it for the next generation. It was ugly to boot!

We used to refill our cigarette lighters with fluid. Today we throw them away. We used to replace razor blades in our shavers, today they are plastic and we throw them away. We used to put film in our cameras, today they are all disposable, and we throw them away. We used to take our milk bottles, beer bottles, pop bottles back to the store to get our refund back. Today we throw all that away. We used to have diaper services to bring mothers fresh diapers and take the soiled ones to be cleaned. Today all diapers are disposable, and they are tossed in the garbage.

And the world has changed, both good and bad.

 

[hadit]

Most important thing said: MUELLER: 'If we had had confidence that the president clearly did not commit a crime, we would have said so'

MUELLER: 'If we had had confidence that the president clearly did not commit a crime, we would have said so.'

I know you guys aren't big on logic and reason, but the logical conclusion from Mueller's statement is that if Mueller had had confidence that Trump clearly *did* commit a crime, he would have said so. But he did not. He did not say so. In fact, he specifically said he could find no evidence that Trump or any of his senior people colluded with Russians to affect the election.

You can't make the one statement without clearly requiring the other statement. The logical corollary to Mueller's statement is that if he had found clear evidence of collusion, he would have said so.

I know you guys aren't big on logic and reason, but the logical conclusion from Mueller's statement is that if Mueller had had confidence that Trump clearly *did* commit a crime, he would have said so.

Not at all, cap'n logic.

Mueller said very clearly why he would not, dope. If you couldn't lie, you would have nothing to say.

Hear Robert Mueller's full statement - CNN Video

Mueller said congress should handle it.

Where the hell is congress?

Congress need to shit or get off the pot.

.

Democrats want a campaign issue. If they impeach now and Trump survives, they face not only an electorate tired of their games, but an enraged Trump who isn't afraid to fight dirty and has a lot of power. I think they'll hold off until the campaign, then act all outraged and stuff about it. Of course, it'll be old news by then.

 

[Zorro!]

So confident he didnt want to do it under oath......LLMMAAOOOO

You guys need to make up your minds. Was Mueller after Trump or did he exonerate him?

Yes and no.
The absence of evidence isn't an exoneration to Mueller, because he wasn't selected to exonerate Trump.

You don't seem to be able to be logical about this.
Mueller was after Trump.....and because of that he chose not to exonerate him.
Again......a prosecutor's job is to prove his case.....not prove innocence.
The burden of proof lies with the prosecution.....and because proof wasn't found (nor existed) the case is closed.

That's right and the American People know it:

Poll: Plurality of Republicans believe the Mueller report totally exonerated Trump on obstruction of justice



Heh.

 

[Zorro!]

So confident he didnt want to do it under oath......LLMMAAOOOO

You guys need to make up your minds. Was Mueller after Trump or did he exonerate him?

Yes and no.
The absence of evidence isn't an exoneration to Mueller, because he wasn't selected to exonerate Trump.

You don't seem to be able to be logical about this.
Mueller was after Trump.....and because of that he chose not to exonerate him.
Again......a prosecutor's job is to prove his case.....not prove innocence.
The burden of proof lies with the prosecution.....and because proof wasn't found (nor existed) the case is closed.

Exactly, our innocence is our presumed state, not something bestowed on us by a crooked prosecutor like Dirty Bob.