Mubarak stepping down.

[High_Gravity]

Proof?

He loves Egypt. I most certainly understand his feelings. He is tied to the land.

I love America but if I had millions of people protesting against me I would get the fuck out. Love for country can't save you from the angry lynch mobs.

That's why you can't understand him. You are not him. Step out of you and look at him. Then you will begin to understand him.

Read up on this man HG. Otherwise you lose his context and only insert your own.

I'm only saying what I would do but you are right I don't know much about Mubarak, I should read more.

 

[Ropey]

I'm only saying what I would do but you are right I don't know much about Mubarak, I should read more.

And for you, you are right.

For me?

I will be buried in Israel. After all, I lost some of a lung and stomach there. I didn't have to go there. I could have lost all of me there. Or found all of me there?

For Hosni Mubarak? He will do his best to stay in Egypt. If forced out, then he will be buried in Egypt when he dies. He does not want to leave Egypt at all.

 

[PoliticalChic]

At this point though, I see only the Muslim Brotherhood beginning to revitalize what was once banned.

They've remained active in Egyptian politics throughout their existence and in spite of official bans. As for what will change, their candidates may now identify themselves as members of the Ikhwan instead of running as independents.

I mean, didn't anyone learn from the West Bank elections? Democracy to attempted coup in one fell swoop.

You forgot to mention that this coup preempted a Zionist-orchestrated Fatah takeover. Or perhaps you didn't forget.

1. The Nazis were largely responsible for the creation of Egypt’s Muslim Brotherhood, the first modern mass movement of political Islam (1928): they hoped to use the Brotherhood against the British in the Middle East. Paul Berman, “Terror and Liberalism,” p. 60,
and John Loftus, ‘The Muslim Brotherhood, The Muslim Brotherhood, Nazis and Al-Qaeda

a. Hassan al-Banna, the founder of the Muslim Brotherhood, was a devout admirer of Adolf Hitler. FrontPage Magazine - Islamo-Fascism Denial

2. Islamism also has roots in Marxist-Leninist philosophy. Turkish journalist Mustafa Akyol has written about the influence of Marxism on the godfathers of Islamism, Sayyid Qutb, Muslim Brotherhood theoretician, and Sayyid Abul A’la Maududi, major 20th century Islamist thinker, and Ali Shariati, the 'ideologue of the Iranian Revolution'. Akyol wrote in ‘Bolshevism in a Headdress,’ that many ex-Marxists joined the Islamists.


3. "Haj Amin al-Husseini escaped to Egypt and formed a bloody-minded alliance with the founder of the Muslim Brotherhood, Hassan al-Banna (the grandfather of Tariq Ramadan). Al-Banna welcomed Husseini to Egypt and called him “the hero who challenged an empire and fought Zionism with the help of Hitler and Germany. Germany and Hitler are gone but Amin al-Husseini will continue the struggle.” Berman describes the Nazi plan (in which Husseini would play a key role) for the physical destruction of the Jewish community in Palestine after Rommel’s expected victory at El-Alamein. Rommel’s defeat aborted the plan, but al-Banna’s Muslim Brotherhood fought side by side with the mufti’s cadres in the 1948 Arab and Palestinian war against Israel with the same goal of destruction in mind. The Muslim Brotherhood is alive and well today, with hundreds of thousands of followers in many parts of the world. In Gaza, the movement is called Hamas, and its charter mimes the World War II symbiosis between Nazi eliminationist anti-Semitism and radical Islamism."
The Intellectuals Keep Flying by Sol Stern, City Journal 21 October 2010

 

[signelect]

This is what we get with ego and a major power propping you up, plus paying your bills. He probably need to steal some more aid money before it goes.

 

[Kalam]

Proof?

Diplomats fear US wants to arm Fatah for 'war on Hamas' - Times Online
http://www.icej.org/article/vanity_fair_bush_approved_plan_to_oust_hamas

If Hamas had planned to seize control of the Gaza Strip, it would have been easy enough for them to do so long before the summer of 2007.

 

[Ropey]

Proof?

Diplomats fear US wants to arm Fatah for 'war on Hamas' - Times Online
http://www.icej.org/article/vanity_fair_bush_approved_plan_to_oust_hamas

If Hamas had planned to seize control of the Gaza Strip, it would have been easy enough for them to do so long before the summer of 2007.

Diplomats fear? Links to no cite?

That's your proof?

And an "If" conjecture tied to a postulated fear Kalam?

You can do better.

 

[saveliberty]

Come on Obama, just give Mubarak the season courtside Lakers tickets and let's be done with this.

 

[Jos]

I'm only saying what I would do but you are right I don't know much about Mubarak, I should read more.

And for you, you are right.

For me?

I will be buried in Israel. After all, I lost some of a lung and stomach there. I didn't have to go there. I could have lost all of me there. Or found all of me there?

For Hosni Mubarak? He will do his best to stay in Egypt. If forced out, then he will be buried in Egypt when he dies. He does not want to leave Egypt at all.

But your heart belongs in Canada?

 

[Mini 14]

Mubarak is done, whether he wants to admit it or not.

The Egyptian people want him gone, and he is losing the support of the military.

As I said earlier, I do not believe he will be in power, nor Egypt, through the weekend.

And if he is still in Egypt, he likely will not be breathing.

This isn't just a "difference of political philosophies," it is a revolution. Until now, it has been relatively non-violent. Soon, I expect the military to offer Mubarak safe escort out of the country, and if he declines, they will let the People of Egypt have him to serve their own (proper) justice.

It is beginning to appear, to me at least, that Mubarak is insane at worst, and narcissistically paranoid at best.

But whatever, his time in Egypt is almost up.

 

[Kalam]

1. The Nazis were largely responsible for the creation of Egypt’s Muslim Brotherhood, the first modern mass movement of political Islam (1928): they hoped to use the Brotherhood against the British in the Middle East. Paul Berman, “Terror and Liberalism,” p. 60,
and John Loftus, ‘The Muslim Brotherhood, The Muslim Brotherhood, Nazis and Al-Qaeda

No, they weren't. The Ikhwan was founded during a time when Hitler was on bad terms with the authorities and spending time in the Bavarian mountains. The Nazi party itself was having trouble with recruitment and wouldn't become notably powerful until after the stock market crashed. Please try to rely on sources that at least make an attempt to appear unbiased.

a. Hassan al-Banna, the founder of the Muslim Brotherhood, was a devout admirer of Adolf Hitler. FrontPage Magazine - Islamo-Fascism Denial

Also an outright lie that can only be found in unscholarly, blatantly propagandistic publications. Hassan al-Banna was opposed to racism and critical of all non-Muslim forces and causes, including those of Europe during World War II. Taken directly from "Toward the Light":

The modern nations have paid close attention to this and have been founded on these principles: we see that Mussolini’s Fascism, Hitler’s Nazism, and Stalin’s Communism are based on pure militarism. But there is a vast difference between all of these and the militarism of Islam, for the Islam which has sanctified the use of force has also preferred peace.

....

‘Commit no treachery, do not exceed the bounds, do not mutilate, do not kill women, children, and the aged, do not cut down fruit-bearing trees, and do not finish off the wounded. You will come across people who lead lives of devotion in hermitages: leave them and that to which they devote themselves, in peace.’

This was the military power of Islam, the guardians of justice, law and order. As for the present military might of Europe, everyone knows that it is an army of injustice and greed. Which of the two sides is more upright and magnanimous?​

2. Islamism also has roots in Marxist-Leninist philosophy. Turkish journalist Mustafa Akyol has written about the influence of Marxism on the godfathers of Islamism, Sayyid Qutb, Muslim Brotherhood theoretician, and Sayyid Abul A’la Maududi, major 20th century Islamist thinker, and Ali Shariati, the 'ideologue of the Iranian Revolution'. Akyol wrote in ‘Bolshevism in a Headdress,’ that many ex-Marxists joined the Islamists.

Directly from the introduction of Ma'alim fi'l-Tariq:

Democracy in the West has become infertile to such an extent that it is borrowing from the systems of the Eastern bloc, especially in the economic system, under the name of socialism. It is the same with the Eastern bloc. Its social theories, foremost among which is Marxism, in the beginning attracted not only a large number of people from the East but also from the West, as it was a way of life based on a creed. But now Marxism is defeated on the plane of thought, and if it is stated that not a single nation in the world is truly Marxist, it will not be an exaggeration. On the whole this theory conflicts with man's nature and his needs. This ideology prospers only in a degenerate society or in a society which has become cowed as a result of some form of prolonged dictatorship. But now, even under these circumstances, its materialistic economic system is failing, although this was the only foundation on which its structure was based. Russia, which is the leader of the communist countries, is itself suffering from shortages of food. Although during the times of the Tsars Russia used to produce surplus food, it now has to import food from abroad and has to sell its reserves of gold for this purpose. The main reason for this is the failure of the system of collective farming, or, one can say, the failure of a system which is against human nature.​

As for Maududi, some have suggested that his view of history shares some basic similarities with Hegelian and Marxist conflict theory, though he was explicitly critical of both thinkers. To suggest that his ideology has roots in "Marxism-Leninism", however, moves beyond disingenuous and is simply another lie. "Marxism" is first and foremost an economic theory that Maududi certainly did not subscribe to. I have interest in speaking about Shari'ati other than to point out the silliness of conflating Sunni and Shi'i political ideologies, which are fundamentally different.

3. "Haj Amin al-Husseini escaped to Egypt and formed a bloody-minded alliance with the founder of the Muslim Brotherhood, Hassan al-Banna (the grandfather of Tariq Ramadan). Al-Banna welcomed Husseini to Egypt and called him “the hero who challenged an empire and fought Zionism with the help of Hitler and Germany. Germany and Hitler are gone but Amin al-Husseini will continue the struggle.”

I find absolutely no reference to this either in al-Banna's memoirs nor in any of several books about his life and the history of the Ikhwan. All of the references to this statement point to one 2009 book which cites an OSS report -- I am unable to find any trace of this report or any other reference to it and will assume that this is simply another fabrication unless I'm shown credible evidence that suggests otherwise.

Rommel’s defeat aborted the plan, but al-Banna’s Muslim Brotherhood fought side by side with the mufti’s cadres in the 1948 Arab and Palestinian war against Israel with the same goal of destruction in mind. The Muslim Brotherhood is alive and well today, with hundreds of thousands of followers in many parts of the world. In Gaza, the movement is called Hamas, and its charter mimes the World War II symbiosis between Nazi eliminationist anti-Semitism and radical Islamism."

The claim that the charter is "Nazi" and "eliminationist" is as dishonest as everything else in your calumnious litany of a post. From the charter, article 31:

"The Islamic Resistance Movement is a humanistic movement. It takes care of human rights and is guided by Islamic tolerance when dealing with the followers of other religions. It does not antagonize anyone of them except if it is antagonized by it or stands in its way to hamper its moves and waste its efforts.

Under the wing of Islam, it is possible for the followers of the three religions - Islam, Christianity and Judaism - to coexist in peace and quiet with each other. Peace and quiet would not be possible except under the wing of Islam."​

It's painfully obvious that you haven't familiarized yourself with any of the figures or movements you're attempting to discuss and are merely repeating aspersions printed by anti-Muslim and Zionist purveyors of propaganda.

 

[Kalam]

Diplomats fear? Links to no cite?

That's your proof?

And an "If" conjecture tied to a postulated fear Kalam?

You can do better.

We'll assume for the sake of your argument that the statements attributed to Wursmer are completely inaccurate. Do you agree or disagree that sending tens of millions of dollars in munitions to one faction during a period of tenuous peace is likely to provoke a response from its rivals?

 

[syrenn]

Damn Kalam, where have you been?

 

[Kalam]

Damn Kalam, where have you been?

Busy with studies and some other things. I can't post as much these days but I do like to come back now and then to argue with everyone.

 

[Mini 14]

It seems Mubarak's announcement today that he will not seek reelection has further incensed the Egyptian People.

I expect it to explode in the next 2-3 days. It is going to be a bloody weekend in Egypt.

 

[syrenn]

Damn Kalam, where have you been?

Busy with studies and some other things. I can't post as much these days but I do like to come back now and then to argue with everyone.

I know you do.

I was wondering where you were and when you were going to show up considering whats been going on the past week. I sorta figured you were busy with life.

 

[Kalam]

It seems Mubarak's announcement today that he will not seek reelection has further incensed the Egyptian People.

I expect it to explode in the next 2-3 days. It is going to be a bloody weekend in Egypt.

I sure hope not. El Baradei certainly isn't worth dying over.

 

[Kalam]

Damn Kalam, where have you been?

Busy with studies and some other things. I can't post as much these days but I do like to come back now and then to argue with everyone.

I know you do.

I was wondering where you were and when you were going to show up considering whats been going on the past week. I sorta figured you were busy with life.

If all of this Middle Eastern regime change business continues to spread then I guess I'll have to stick around for a while.

 

[saveliberty]

Busy with studies and some other things. I can't post as much these days but I do like to come back now and then to argue with everyone.

I know you do.

I was wondering where you were and when you were going to show up considering whats been going on the past week. I sorta figured you were busy with life.

If all of this Middle Eastern regime change business continues to spread then I guess I'll have to stick around for a while.

I'd appreciate it.

 

[Ropey]

Diplomats fear? Links to no cite?

That's your proof?

And an "If" conjecture tied to a postulated fear Kalam?

You can do better.

We'll assume for the sake of your argument that the statements attributed to Wursmer are completely inaccurate. Do you agree or disagree that sending tens of millions of dollars in munitions to one faction during a period of tenuous peace is likely to provoke a response from its rivals?

But that hasn't been proven.

Of course it is likely to provoke a response, but a lie told would provoke the same response. A lie or unproven source will elicit the same response from those being told the lie (as truth). Some believe the lie even though they know the lie to be untrue.

Which is what I think you mean when you mentioned before that I might think I knew something?

Back at you Kalam.

Nice try though.

 

[Kalam]

I know you do.

I was wondering where you were and when you were going to show up considering whats been going on the past week. I sorta figured you were busy with life.

If all of this Middle Eastern regime change business continues to spread then I guess I'll have to stick around for a while.

I'd appreciate it.

Thanks.