Moms are turning to crowdfunding to help pay for maternity leave

[dblack]

We live together, as a society, in a modern joined up world, we enjoy the benefits and should share the burden.

I agree. The question is whether government is the proper tool.

 

[Conservative65]

Why should a business owner or taxpayer be forced to pay for a woman to go off and have a kid? .....

Just another example of those supporting this thinking the choice to do so belongs solely to the woman while the costs of making that choice belongs to anyone but the one that made the choice.

That is infantile thinking. We live together, as a society, in a modern joined up world, we enjoy the benefits and should share the burden.

Infantile thinking is believing someone should be able to make a choice, tell you to butt out, then believe it's OK to demand those who were told to butt out to pay the price.

The problem with your view is those making the choices they can't afford are benefiting but not sharing the burden. I don't owe a woman a damn thing because she chooses to have kids she can't afford, tells me her choice to do so isn't my business then expects me to be one of those forced to help pay for something SHE chose to do.

 

[Conservative65]

We live together, as a society, in a modern joined up world, we enjoy the benefits and should share the burden.

I agree. The question is whether government is the proper tool.

What's sad is that the woman who makes the choice about her body has told the government to butt out of it then uses that same government to force others she told to butt out to pay for something she said was none of our business.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

We live together, as a society, in a modern joined up world, we enjoy the benefits and should share the burden.

I agree. The question is whether government is the proper tool.

I think that on the basic nuts and bolts of life the government,local or national, is best placed.Obviously subject to the will of the people.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Why should a business owner or taxpayer be forced to pay for a woman to go off and have a kid? .....

Just another example of those supporting this thinking the choice to do so belongs solely to the woman while the costs of making that choice belongs to anyone but the one that made the choice.

That is infantile thinking. We live together, as a society, in a modern joined up world, we enjoy the benefits and should share the burden.

Infantile thinking is believing someone should be able to make a choice, tell you to butt out, then believe it's OK to demand those who were told to butt out to pay the price.

The problem with your view is those making the choices they can't afford are benefiting but not sharing the burden. I don't owe a woman a damn thing because she chooses to have kids she can't afford, tells me her choice to do so isn't my business then expects me to be one of those forced to help pay for something SHE chose to do.

That womans child will save your life one day, or fight a war for you. We all benefit so we should all share the burden. Its not complicated.

 

[Conservative65]

Why should a business owner or taxpayer be forced to pay for a woman to go off and have a kid? .....

Just another example of those supporting this thinking the choice to do so belongs solely to the woman while the costs of making that choice belongs to anyone but the one that made the choice.

That is infantile thinking. We live together, as a society, in a modern joined up world, we enjoy the benefits and should share the burden.

Infantile thinking is believing someone should be able to make a choice, tell you to butt out, then believe it's OK to demand those who were told to butt out to pay the price.

The problem with your view is those making the choices they can't afford are benefiting but not sharing the burden. I don't owe a woman a damn thing because she chooses to have kids she can't afford, tells me her choice to do so isn't my business then expects me to be one of those forced to help pay for something SHE chose to do.

That womans child will save your life one day, or fight a war for you. We all benefit so we should all share the burden. Its not complicated.

She made the choice and told me to butt out. It's her responsibility not mine.

Or that child will be just like his mother and be a freeloader. You keep saying we should all share the burden but the fact that she demands helps proves she isn't sharing any of it.

 

[dblack]

We live together, as a society, in a modern joined up world, we enjoy the benefits and should share the burden.

I agree. The question is whether government is the proper tool.

I think that on the basic nuts and bolts of life the government,local or national, is best placed.Obviously subject to the will of the people.

Law enforcement isn't justified. These are questions of personal and social morality, not legal justice.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

We live together, as a society, in a modern joined up world, we enjoy the benefits and should share the burden.

I agree. The question is whether government is the proper tool.

I think that on the basic nuts and bolts of life the government,local or national, is best placed.Obviously subject to the will of the people.

Law enforcement isn't justified. These are questions of personal and social morality, not legal justice.

In the UK there are two levels of maternity pay. Statutory which is paid by the government out of tax money. And employer funded maternity.
The employer funded is not mandatory and depends on the employer.Good employers pay it.
The statutory pay is seen as vital in helping people have children as it helps to negate the loss of income during this period. I have never heard anybody criticise it.
As to forcing private firms to pay it I am not sure how that would work, especially for smaller employers. Some form of tax incentive might be better.

 

[Arianrhod]

That womans child will save your life one day, or fight a war for you. We all benefit so we should all share the burden. Its not complicated.

I'm not certain how many other boards you frequent, but what you're experiencing on this board is what a bloke I know from Leeds describes as the "Internet hard man."

You get the impression that they're all eminently self-sufficient, that their mums plunked 'em in front of the telly and spent the day on the phone or doing their nails, so they're insanely jealous of future generations whose parents might have actually welcomed their arrival and tried to give them the best of their attention and affection.

These more fortunate infants will, it's assumed, grow up and take jobs - however stultifying - from the hard men, and that's their fear.

Climb the ladder and then kick it out from under anyone coming up after them.

I love the smell of desperation in the morning.

 

[Arianrhod]

We live together, as a society, in a modern joined up world, we enjoy the benefits and should share the burden.

I agree. The question is whether government is the proper tool.

I think that on the basic nuts and bolts of life the government,local or national, is best placed.Obviously subject to the will of the people.

Law enforcement isn't justified. These are questions of personal and social morality, not legal justice.

In the UK there are two levels of maternity pay. Statutory which is paid by the government out of tax money. And employer funded maternity.
The employer funded is not mandatory and depends on the employer.Good employers pay it.
The statutory pay is seen as vital in helping people have children as it helps to negate the loss of income during this period. I have never heard anybody criticise it.
As to forcing private firms to pay it I am not sure how that would work, especially for smaller employers. Some form of tax incentive might be better.

Imagine a world in which employers actually like their employees and want what's best for them.

Clearly not something the Hard Men are familiar with.

The underlying misogyny is a whole 'nother story.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

We live together, as a society, in a modern joined up world, we enjoy the benefits and should share the burden.

I agree. The question is whether government is the proper tool.

I think that on the basic nuts and bolts of life the government,local or national, is best placed.Obviously subject to the will of the people.

Law enforcement isn't justified. These are questions of personal and social morality, not legal justice.

In the UK there are two levels of maternity pay. Statutory which is paid by the government out of tax money. And employer funded maternity.
The employer funded is not mandatory and depends on the employer.Good employers pay it.
The statutory pay is seen as vital in helping people have children as it helps to negate the loss of income during this period. I have never heard anybody criticise it.
As to forcing private firms to pay it I am not sure how that would work, especially for smaller employers. Some form of tax incentive might be better.

Imagine a world in which employers actually like their employees and want what's best for them.

Clearly not something the Hard Men are familiar with.

The underlying misogyny is a whole 'nother story.

The job market is very much in the employers favour at the moment and the upshot of that is poor pay and conditions.Things will improve when people have a choice of jobs. Nothing is ever given out of a sense of what is right.

The argument I struggle with is that we are all individual self sufficient people, isolated and living on a mountain,drinking spring water and feeding off Elk.

"I havent got kids so why should I pay taxes for schools" ?

Its such a dishonest position. Almost as dishonest as a "pro lifer" saying

She made the choice and told me to butt out. It's her responsibility not mine.

They would deny the poor girl the choice in the first place.

 

[dblack]

We live together, as a society, in a modern joined up world, we enjoy the benefits and should share the burden.

I agree. The question is whether government is the proper tool.

I think that on the basic nuts and bolts of life the government,local or national, is best placed.Obviously subject to the will of the people.

Law enforcement isn't justified. These are questions of personal and social morality, not legal justice.

In the UK there are two levels of maternity pay. Statutory which is paid by the government out of tax money. And employer funded maternity.
The employer funded is not mandatory and depends on the employer.Good employers pay it.
The statutory pay is seen as vital in helping people have children as it helps to negate the loss of income during this period. I have never heard anybody criticise it.
As to forcing private firms to pay it I am not sure how that would work, especially for smaller employers. Some form of tax incentive might be better.

Imagine a world in which employers actually like their employees and want what's best for them.

Imagine a world where employers and employees decide for themselves what's best for them.

 

[Arianrhod]

Imagine a world where employers and employees decide for themselves what's best for them.

There is such a world, in the executive suite. Below that, only with rare exception. Them that's got shall get.

 

[Arianrhod]

I agree. The question is whether government is the proper tool.

I think that on the basic nuts and bolts of life the government,local or national, is best placed.Obviously subject to the will of the people.

Law enforcement isn't justified. These are questions of personal and social morality, not legal justice.

In the UK there are two levels of maternity pay. Statutory which is paid by the government out of tax money. And employer funded maternity.
The employer funded is not mandatory and depends on the employer.Good employers pay it.
The statutory pay is seen as vital in helping people have children as it helps to negate the loss of income during this period. I have never heard anybody criticise it.
As to forcing private firms to pay it I am not sure how that would work, especially for smaller employers. Some form of tax incentive might be better.

Imagine a world in which employers actually like their employees and want what's best for them.

Clearly not something the Hard Men are familiar with.

The underlying misogyny is a whole 'nother story.

The job market is very much in the employers favour at the moment and the upshot of that is poor pay and conditions.Things will improve when people have a choice of jobs. Nothing is ever given out of a sense of what is right.

The argument I struggle with is that we are all individual self sufficient people, isolated and living on a mountain,drinking spring water and feeding off Elk.

"I havent got kids so why should I pay taxes for schools" ?

Its such a dishonest position. Almost as dishonest as a "pro lifer" saying

She made the choice and told me to butt out. It's her responsibility not mine.

They would deny the poor girl the choice in the first place.

The odd thing is, maybe I'm just surrounded by more intelligent people, but I don't encounter these "Me, ME, MEEEEEEE!" types IRL. Well, at least not as adults. The average four-year-old seems to think the universe revolves around them, but they're disabused of that concept fairly quickly.

So the conclusion we draw is that these "hard men" only exist on the Internet. IRL, they're probably browbeaten, friendless, and desperate to vote for a bully like Trump.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

I wonder if helping people when they need it might be cheaper in the long run than telling them to eff off ?

"if they need it" is an interesting term.

Having a baby is a stressful time. Science has shown us that it is mainly women who have babies. If men had babies there would be a law giving us a year off on full pay.

You are a woman ?

No,why would you think that ?

You seem to speak for what it is like to have a baby.

My wife was generally back in stride a week after a new child (no time off for me).

Men would not have children.....we are to wimpy.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Why should a business owner or taxpayer be forced to pay for a woman to go off and have a kid? .....

Just another example of those supporting this thinking the choice to do so belongs solely to the woman while the costs of making that choice belongs to anyone but the one that made the choice.

That is infantile thinking. We live together, as a society, in a modern joined up world, we enjoy the benefits and should share the burden.

Not at the point of a gun.

 

[dblack]

Imagine a world where employers and employees decide for themselves what's best for them.

There is such a world, in the executive suite. Below that, only with rare exception. Them that's got shall get.

So you can't imagine such a thing? What's wrong with employees taking the jobs that suite their needs? Why is it any of your business how someone else is compensated by an employer? Is there any limit to your desire to control others?

 

[Arianrhod]

Imagine a world where employers and employees decide for themselves what's best for them.

There is such a world, in the executive suite. Below that, only with rare exception. Them that's got shall get.

So you can't imagine such a thing? What's wrong with employees taking the jobs that suite their needs? Why is it any of your business how someone else is compensated by an employer? Is there any limit to your desire to control others?

I've never been to the executive suite. I have no power to control others. You, on the other hand, seem to have a serf's adulation of the master class.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Why should a business owner or taxpayer be forced to pay for a woman to go off and have a kid? .....

Just another example of those supporting this thinking the choice to do so belongs solely to the woman while the costs of making that choice belongs to anyone but the one that made the choice.

That is infantile thinking. We live together, as a society, in a modern joined up world, we enjoy the benefits and should share the burden.

Not at the point of a gun.

Obviously I am too much of a "libtard" to own a gun.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Imagine a world where employers and employees decide for themselves what's best for them.

There is such a world, in the executive suite. Below that, only with rare exception. Them that's got shall get.

However, there ARE exceptions Arianrhod. One of the reasons that I spent 20 years in the military was for the benefits. Full medical, dental and vision for both me and my family, as well as 12 weeks maternity leave for women, 6 weeks maternity leave for men every time they have a child, and 30 days paid vacation per year for everyone.

When I finally retired, I saw how badly the civilian sector gets boned when it comes to benefits.