Moms are turning to crowdfunding to help pay for maternity leave

[dblack]

We're not debating whether it's good for parents to be with their children. We're debating whether we have the right to work for companies that don't offer paid maternity leave as a benefit.

So you're concerned that you might be "forced" to work for a company that does offer paid maternity leave? How do you perceive that would affect you?

You are quite determined to make this some kind of weird personal thing, aren't you?

To reiterate, I'm not concerned about personal repercussions. I'm arguing against the continuing encroachment on our economic freedom. Government shouldn't be involved in mandating how we're compensated.

If you could explain why paid maternity leave encroaches on your freedom, it might help.

It's dictating what sort of benefits an employer must offer. If someone prefers, for example, to receive higher pay rather than a bunch of "benefits" that they have no use for, they should be able to negotiate for that. Laws that mandate what benefits an employer must offer offer take away that option.

Is this thing on? ...

 

[Arianrhod]

We're not debating whether it's good for parents to be with their children. We're debating whether we have the right to work for companies that don't offer paid maternity leave as a benefit.

So you're concerned that you might be "forced" to work for a company that does offer paid maternity leave? How do you perceive that would affect you?

You are quite determined to make this some kind of weird personal thing, aren't you?

To reiterate, I'm not concerned about personal repercussions. I'm arguing against the continuing encroachment on our economic freedom. Government shouldn't be involved in mandating how we're compensated.

If you could explain why paid maternity leave encroaches on your freedom, it might help.

It's dictating what sort of benefits an employer must offer. If someone prefers, for example, to receive higher pay rather than a bunch of "benefits" that they have no use for, they should be able to negotiate for that. Laws that mandate what benefits an employer must offer offer take away that option.

Is this thing on? ...

Then an intelligent employer would be aware of the likelihood of such legislation being passed and would adjust his/her corporate philosophy accordingly.

Or just bribe a Congressman.

 

[dblack]

We're not debating whether it's good for parents to be with their children. We're debating whether we have the right to work for companies that don't offer paid maternity leave as a benefit.

So you're concerned that you might be "forced" to work for a company that does offer paid maternity leave? How do you perceive that would affect you?

You are quite determined to make this some kind of weird personal thing, aren't you?

To reiterate, I'm not concerned about personal repercussions. I'm arguing against the continuing encroachment on our economic freedom. Government shouldn't be involved in mandating how we're compensated.

If you could explain why paid maternity leave encroaches on your freedom, it might help.

It's dictating what sort of benefits an employer must offer. If someone prefers, for example, to receive higher pay rather than a bunch of "benefits" that they have no use for, they should be able to negotiate for that. Laws that mandate what benefits an employer must offer offer take away that option.

Is this thing on? ...

Then an intelligent employer would be aware of the likelihood of such legislation being passed and would adjust his/her corporate philosophy accordingly.

Or just bribe a Congressman.

Well, yeah. That's what this shit tends to produce. But what does that have (at all) to do with my comment?

 

[Arianrhod]

So you're concerned that you might be "forced" to work for a company that does offer paid maternity leave? How do you perceive that would affect you?

You are quite determined to make this some kind of weird personal thing, aren't you?

To reiterate, I'm not concerned about personal repercussions. I'm arguing against the continuing encroachment on our economic freedom. Government shouldn't be involved in mandating how we're compensated.

If you could explain why paid maternity leave encroaches on your freedom, it might help.

It's dictating what sort of benefits an employer must offer. If someone prefers, for example, to receive higher pay rather than a bunch of "benefits" that they have no use for, they should be able to negotiate for that. Laws that mandate what benefits an employer must offer offer take away that option.

Is this thing on? ...

Then an intelligent employer would be aware of the likelihood of such legislation being passed and would adjust his/her corporate philosophy accordingly.

Or just bribe a Congressman.

Well, yeah. That's what this shit tends to produce. But what does that have (at all) to do with my comment?

Cause and effect.

 

[dblack]

You are quite determined to make this some kind of weird personal thing, aren't you?

To reiterate, I'm not concerned about personal repercussions. I'm arguing against the continuing encroachment on our economic freedom. Government shouldn't be involved in mandating how we're compensated.

If you could explain why paid maternity leave encroaches on your freedom, it might help.

It's dictating what sort of benefits an employer must offer. If someone prefers, for example, to receive higher pay rather than a bunch of "benefits" that they have no use for, they should be able to negotiate for that. Laws that mandate what benefits an employer must offer offer take away that option.

Is this thing on? ...

Then an intelligent employer would be aware of the likelihood of such legislation being passed and would adjust his/her corporate philosophy accordingly.

Or just bribe a Congressman.

Well, yeah. That's what this shit tends to produce. But what does that have (at all) to do with my comment?

Cause and effect.

What???

It's weird. Certain concepts just bounce off your head. In particular, it seems like anything regarding personal liberty "does not compute" for you. And they you start talking about something else instead.

 

[Arianrhod]

If you could explain why paid maternity leave encroaches on your freedom, it might help.

It's dictating what sort of benefits an employer must offer. If someone prefers, for example, to receive higher pay rather than a bunch of "benefits" that they have no use for, they should be able to negotiate for that. Laws that mandate what benefits an employer must offer offer take away that option.

Is this thing on? ...

Then an intelligent employer would be aware of the likelihood of such legislation being passed and would adjust his/her corporate philosophy accordingly.

Or just bribe a Congressman.

Well, yeah. That's what this shit tends to produce. But what does that have (at all) to do with my comment?

Cause and effect.

What???

It's weird. Certain concepts just bounce off your head. In particular, it seems like anything regarding personal liberty "does not compute" for you. And they you start talking about something else instead.

What's weird is that no one else in this forum seems to have a problem understanding me.

 

[dblack]

It's dictating what sort of benefits an employer must offer. If someone prefers, for example, to receive higher pay rather than a bunch of "benefits" that they have no use for, they should be able to negotiate for that. Laws that mandate what benefits an employer must offer offer take away that option.

Is this thing on? ...

Then an intelligent employer would be aware of the likelihood of such legislation being passed and would adjust his/her corporate philosophy accordingly.

Or just bribe a Congressman.

Well, yeah. That's what this shit tends to produce. But what does that have (at all) to do with my comment?

Cause and effect.

What???

It's weird. Certain concepts just bounce off your head. In particular, it seems like anything regarding personal liberty "does not compute" for you. And they you start talking about something else instead.

What's weird is that no one else in this forum seems to have a problem understanding me.

See what I mean? My post says nothing at all about an inability to understand you. You just fling shit at the wall and pretend you made a point.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Good employers will find ways to incentivise staff and maternity pay is a good way to show that you care.

 

[Arianrhod]

See what I mean? My post says nothing at all about an inability to understand you.

The entire tenor of your replies to me indicates it, however.

Good employers will find ways to incentivise staff and maternity pay is a good way to show that you care.

Exactly. So what are we to conclude from the fact that a certain segment of Americans just don't get that? Are they predominantly male and childless, ergo resentful of what they see as a "special privilege" (again, I'd invite any one of them to walk the floor all night with a colicky infant, or sit in the ER while the kid howls in pain from otitis and say honestly that of course they'd be able to show up at work and be functional the next day)? Or are they so oppressed in the workplace that it never occurs to them that there's some wiggle room?

 

[dblack]

Good employers will find ways to incentivise staff and maternity pay is a good way to show that you care.

Exactly. And there are plenty of other ways. No mandate is required.

 

[dblack]

So what are we to conclude from the fact that a certain segment of Americans just don't get that?

First you'd have to prove that people "just don't get that". Opposing government mandates isn't the same thing as opposing the things they mandate. That's a tricky concept for a small mind to grasp, but it's true. No one is saying paid maternity leave is a bad thing. We're just saying government shouldn't be telling us what benefits we want.

Now, let's see how this point gets twisted around in your head to something entirely unrelated. Go!

 

[Arianrhod]

So what are we to conclude from the fact that a certain segment of Americans just don't get that?

First you'd have to prove that people "just don't get that". Opposing government mandates isn't the same thing as opposing the things they mandate. That's a tricky concept for a small mind to grasp, but it's true. No one is saying paid maternity leave is a bad thing. We're just saying government shouldn't be telling us what benefits we want.

Now, let's see how this point gets twisted around in your head to something entirely unrelated. Go!

I wouldn't want to interrupt this fascinating conversation you're having with yourself.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Good employers will find ways to incentivise staff and maternity pay is a good way to show that you care.

Exactly. And there are plenty of other ways. No mandate is required.

Well thats a conversation for Americans. What sort of country you want to be and all that.

On a personal note I think its a bit extreme to expect a woman to use her holiday time to have a baby. By definition that is discriminatory.

 

[dblack]

So what are we to conclude from the fact that a certain segment of Americans just don't get that?

First you'd have to prove that people "just don't get that". Opposing government mandates isn't the same thing as opposing the things they mandate. That's a tricky concept for a small mind to grasp, but it's true. No one is saying paid maternity leave is a bad thing. We're just saying government shouldn't be telling us what benefits we want.

Now, let's see how this point gets twisted around in your head to something entirely unrelated. Go!

I wouldn't want to interrupt this fascinating conversation you're having with yourself.

Nice! Total evasion. FTW!

 

[dblack]

Good employers will find ways to incentivise staff and maternity pay is a good way to show that you care.

Exactly. And there are plenty of other ways. No mandate is required.

Well thats a conversation for Americans. What sort of country you want to be and all that.

No, it's a conversation for the two people involved. It's no one else's business.

 

[Arianrhod]

Exactly. And there are plenty of other ways. No mandate is required.

It's like dealing with a recalcitrant adolescent. You give him so many chances to clean his room and get good grades on his own, and when he's still lying there glued to his iPod and ignoring you, you drop the hammer.

 

[dblack]

Exactly. And there are plenty of other ways. No mandate is required.

It's like dealing with a recalcitrant adolescent. You give him so many chances to clean his room and get good grades on his own, and when he's still lying there glued to his iPod and ignoring you, you drop the hammer.

Wow...

 

[ABikerSailor]

You know, when I was in the Navy, there were times that I would hear the single guys bitching about some of the married guys and gals getting maternity leave.

My response was simple. Give birth, or have a newborn come into YOUR house and tell me you don't need some extra time to recuperate and take care of the new one.

Most of them would shut up after that.

And yeah..................I was one of those single guys most of my Naval career, but I understood the need for certain things.

If the military is capable of allowing 12 weeks off for the mother and 6 weeks off for the father of newborns, why can't businesses do that? Most of the rest of the Western world does so as well.

When it comes to stuff like vacation, the civilian populace of America gets screwed every time. For 20 years in the Navy, I got 30 days paid leave (paid at my current rank) EVERY YEAR. You could carry over 60 days into the next fiscal year, but if you were over 60, you lost anything from 61 on.

Europeans get 30 days paid vacation as well each year.

American civilians? 2 weeks per year, if you have a really good job with really good benefits. Minimum wage job? Forget about it.

 

[Katzndogz]

When did everyone's sex life become the financial burden for everyone else? The very people screaming the loudest about staying out of their bedrooms want to shift payment to everyone close enough to get hit by the flung shit.

Pay for my baby. Give me aids drugs. The free clinic better give me penicillin for the clap and don't forget the disability pay. When the fuck did society have to underwrite the sex lives of every snail talented enough reach the pavement?

Stay in your bedrooms and stop trying to hide the rest of us under the bed.

 

[Arianrhod]

When did everyone's sex life become the financial burden for everyone else?

What "financial burden" do you perceive here?