Michael Vick released

[manifold]

so he merely tortured them for money?

So that makes it OK

No, but perhaps forgiveable.

there is no forgiveness for wanton cruelty.

what about just plain old cruelty?

 

[Ravi]

They are no more born fighters than any other dog. People have weird and uneducated ideas about biology and what constitutes a species of animal. Dogs have been domesticated for millennia. Dogs are dogs. Dog breeding is a very new practice and has not gone on long enough to have any significant effect on the species in terms of effecting the basic nature of the animal.

I've known plenty of pit bulls that were great family pets.

Angie, while I agree this guy is a doosh you are incorrect that dog breeders don't breed for certain traits and many of them don't care that they are passing down negative ones as long as the dog fits the buyer's notion of what they want the dog to be. I think the AKC is responsible for a lot of this with their shows...breeding for beauty in many dogs unfortunately also means that beauty is all that is valued and things like hip dysplasia become more intensified in successive generations.

Ditto with breeding dogs for dog fighting. You also seem to forget that the lifespan of dogs is short enough to destroy a breed in a few short generations.

A breed does not equal species, Ravi. Since most dog breeding is undocumented and can be done by anyone, there is very little evidence to support the notion that breeds are distinct controlled and determined entities. People like to see things that way, just like they think the human race is divided up in to subspecies.
I think you have read too much sensationalist journalism about pit bulls and forget that proper training and care are by far the largest determining factor in whether a dog will make a good pet or not. You can attempt to breed for specific physical characteristics but you will not always be successfull. Dogs have been man's best friend for millennia and to think that in a few short centuries you can turn them into a whole other species that preys upon humans rather than cooperates with them is a theory that has not been proved.

Not a whole other species, silly. A messed up breed of the species of canine. Are you going to sit there and tell me that you can't breed show dogs to have certain characteristics?

 

[del]

Michael Vick was released this morning from federal custody.

When and if he'll return to the NFL is to be determined.

What are your thoughts about that?

woof​

 

[Anguille]

Angie, while I agree this guy is a doosh you are incorrect that dog breeders don't breed for certain traits and many of them don't care that they are passing down negative ones as long as the dog fits the buyer's notion of what they want the dog to be. I think the AKC is responsible for a lot of this with their shows...breeding for beauty in many dogs unfortunately also means that beauty is all that is valued and things like hip dysplasia become more intensified in successive generations.

Ditto with breeding dogs for dog fighting. You also seem to forget that the lifespan of dogs is short enough to destroy a breed in a few short generations.

A breed does not equal species, Ravi. Since most dog breeding is undocumented and can be done by anyone, there is very little evidence to support the notion that breeds are distinct controlled and determined entities. People like to see things that way, just like they think the human race is divided up in to subspecies.
I think you have read too much sensationalist journalism about pit bulls and forget that proper training and care are by far the largest determining factor in whether a dog will make a good pet or not. You can attempt to breed for specific physical characteristics but you will not always be successfull. Dogs have been man's best friend for millennia and to think that in a few short centuries you can turn them into a whole other species that preys upon humans rather than cooperates with them is a theory that has not been proved.

Not a whole other species, silly. A messed up breed of the species of canine. Are you going to sit there and tell me that you can't breed show dogs to have certain characteristics?

You can't breed a companion, cooperative with humans species into a predator of humans species. At least it's never been done. And if it's possible it will take more that a couple of centuries and random breeding to do so.
We been through this before. You and mani ( mani in an especially emotional fashion) end up shouting hysterically that the pit bulls are are coming to eat our children.

 

[Ravi]

A breed does not equal species, Ravi. Since most dog breeding is undocumented and can be done by anyone, there is very little evidence to support the notion that breeds are distinct controlled and determined entities. People like to see things that way, just like they think the human race is divided up in to subspecies.
I think you have read too much sensationalist journalism about pit bulls and forget that proper training and care are by far the largest determining factor in whether a dog will make a good pet or not. You can attempt to breed for specific physical characteristics but you will not always be successfull. Dogs have been man's best friend for millennia and to think that in a few short centuries you can turn them into a whole other species that preys upon humans rather than cooperates with them is a theory that has not been proved.

Not a whole other species, silly. A messed up breed of the species of canine. Are you going to sit there and tell me that you can't breed show dogs to have certain characteristics?

You can't breed a companion, cooperative with humans species into a predator of humans species. At least it's never been done. And if it's possible it will take more that a couple of centuries and random breeding to do so.
We been through this before. You and mani ( mani in an especially emotional fashion) end up shouting hysterically that the pit bulls are are coming to eat our children.

You might not realize it but dogs descended from wolves...



































































































WOOF!

 

[Anguille]

Not a whole other species, silly. A messed up breed of the species of canine. Are you going to sit there and tell me that you can't breed show dogs to have certain characteristics?

You can't breed a companion, cooperative with humans species into a predator of humans species. At least it's never been done. And if it's possible it will take more that a couple of centuries and random breeding to do so.
We been through this before. You and mani ( mani in an especially emotional fashion) end up shouting hysterically that the pit bulls are are coming to eat our children.

You might not realize it but dogs descended from wolves...



































































































WOOF!

Yet they aren't wolves.

Neither are we chimps.

Bigger woof and a howl at your pretensions to understanding biology.

 

[consrep]

ok, this man was prosecuted and served his sentence. give me a break. let the man play ball and leave him alone!!! OR, as a society, lets put the same amount of pressure and punishment on those sports figures who commit other crimes, such as stallworth, who served TWENTY-FOUR days in jail for hitting and KILLING a man while driving under the influence. is he on the news all the time? no. but we are inundated with hearing about michael vick and what a monster he is and how he will always be a monster. the justice system is flawed when one man's crime kills another human being and serves less time and gets punished less than the other man's crime which killed animals. (please don't get me wrong-i HATE what michael vick did, and he deserved to be punished.) but he has served his time.

 

[Ravi]

You can't breed a companion, cooperative with humans species into a predator of humans species. At least it's never been done. And if it's possible it will take more that a couple of centuries and random breeding to do so.
We been through this before. You and mani ( mani in an especially emotional fashion) end up shouting hysterically that the pit bulls are are coming to eat our children.

You might not realize it but dogs descended from wolves...



































































































WOOF!

Yet they aren't wolves.

Neither are we chimps.

Bigger woof and a howl at your pretensions to understanding biology.

But I thought you said it was impossible to breed a loving dog from a wild animal that didn't take to mankind?

 

[Luissa]

He's a thug because he was part of dogfighting ring? Bullshit.

I have no double standard for jocks. But you can address the double standard of the sentence he got because of his celebrity compared to the usual 30-60 days and a fine.

Unlike most of the rest of you bleeding hearts for vicious and cruel animals that exist to do one thing -- pit fight -- I haven't rendered a moral judgment.

I'm saying he paid his debt as was handed out by the court. The sentence didn't include "and to be persecuted for the rest of your natural life by bleeding hearts."

That, I agree with. The crack about leaving him in a pen with 2 of them was simply a smartass crack to the conversation going on at the time. However, I don't think 23 months is long enough for anyone.. If the standard is 30-90 days, I think that's even worse. Not nearly enough time to teach a lesson. If you're going by sentence time alone, yes he paid it.

Y'all are the type of people that would try to cure the plague by cutting off the lesions. Instead of persecuting one person, try getting off your butts and going to the rural South and Southwest and explaining to Mexicans and Blacks the immorality of it all. Because they don't see it. They don't care. It's entertainment and gambling to them, and it's BIG business.

Then there's the fact that some people just don't place the same value on animal life as they do human life.

What I really find interesting are the number of pro choice advocates in this thread bitching about dogfighting. I thought the whole reason it was okay to snuff out a life is because they don't consider it human yet?

Pit bulls aren't human.

And before YOU, dis, screech at me, I am aware that you are not pro-choice.

What Michael Vick did was against the law, abortion is legal!
And it is alittle different to abort a fetus at say eight weeks when it feels no pain than sticking a dog into a ring with it's mouth duck tape shut so you can build the ego of another dog.
And if I used your same arguement, no Pro Life person has the right to be for capital punishment because someone on death row is still a human no matter what they did.
I call bullshit on your straw man arguement!

 

[Dis]

A bunch of crap. Your ignorance is showing, Gunny.

It is a bunch of crap, some of those same Pitts that he had fighting have been retrained and rehabilitated, Because they are born fighters doesn't mean they must be. A lot of people really won't have any other dog.

They are no more born fighters than any other dog. People have weird and uneducated ideas about biology and what constitutes a species of animal. Dogs have been domesticated for millennia. Dogs are dogs. Dog breeding is a very new practice and has not gone on long enough to have any significant effect on the species in terms of effecting the basic nature of the animal.

I've known plenty of pit bulls that were great family pets.

Knowing pits that were "great family pets" does not change the fact that they ARE specifically bred to fight, whether we like it or not. It's been done for so long now that it IS a natural instinct with them, and whether or not they're "family" dogs, the fact is *anything can make them snap and revert back to form.*

 

[Anguille]

You might not realize it but dogs descended from wolves...



































































































WOOF!

Yet they aren't wolves.

Neither are we chimps.

Bigger woof and a howl at your pretensions to understanding biology.

But I thought you said it was impossible to breed a loving dog from a wild animal that didn't take to mankind?

 

[Dis]

That, I agree with. The crack about leaving him in a pen with 2 of them was simply a smartass crack to the conversation going on at the time. However, I don't think 23 months is long enough for anyone.. If the standard is 30-90 days, I think that's even worse. Not nearly enough time to teach a lesson. If you're going by sentence time alone, yes he paid it.

Y'all are the type of people that would try to cure the plague by cutting off the lesions. Instead of persecuting one person, try getting off your butts and going to the rural South and Southwest and explaining to Mexicans and Blacks the immorality of it all. Because they don't see it. They don't care. It's entertainment and gambling to them, and it's BIG business.

Then there's the fact that some people just don't place the same value on animal life as they do human life.

What I really find interesting are the number of pro choice advocates in this thread bitching about dogfighting. I thought the whole reason it was okay to snuff out a life is because they don't consider it human yet?

Pit bulls aren't human.

And before YOU, dis, screech at me, I am aware that you are not pro-choice.

What Michael Vick did was against the law, abortion is legal!
And it is alittle different to abort a fetus at say eight weeks when it feels no pain than sticking a dog into a ring with it's mouth duck tape shut so you can build the ego of another dog.
And if I used your same arguement, no Pro Life person has the right to be for capital punishment because someone on death row is still a human no matter what they did.
I call bullshit on your straw man arguement!

You missed his whole point with the pro-choice crowd. He didn't differentiate between legal, and illegal. He said pro-choice people think it's ok to snuff out a life because it's *not human*, so he doesn't understand why they have a problem with this, as the dog is *not human* either.

See now?

 

[Anguille]

It is a bunch of crap, some of those same Pitts that he had fighting have been retrained and rehabilitated, Because they are born fighters doesn't mean they must be. A lot of people really won't have any other dog.

They are no more born fighters than any other dog. People have weird and uneducated ideas about biology and what constitutes a species of animal. Dogs have been domesticated for millennia. Dogs are dogs. Dog breeding is a very new practice and has not gone on long enough to have any significant effect on the species in terms of effecting the basic nature of the animal.

I've known plenty of pit bulls that were great family pets.

Knowing pits that were "great family pets" does not change the fact that they ARE specifically bred to fight, whether we like it or not. It's been done for so long now that it IS a natural instinct with them, and whether or not they're "family" dogs, the fact is *anything can make them snap and revert back to form.*

DIS FAIL

See Ravi for details.

 

[Dis]

They are no more born fighters than any other dog. People have weird and uneducated ideas about biology and what constitutes a species of animal. Dogs have been domesticated for millennia. Dogs are dogs. Dog breeding is a very new practice and has not gone on long enough to have any significant effect on the species in terms of effecting the basic nature of the animal.

I've known plenty of pit bulls that were great family pets.

Knowing pits that were "great family pets" does not change the fact that they ARE specifically bred to fight, whether we like it or not. It's been done for so long now that it IS a natural instinct with them, and whether or not they're "family" dogs, the fact is *anything can make them snap and revert back to form.*

DIS FAIL

See Ravi for details.

No fail, and I do not need to see Ravi for anything. Just because you're posting on emotion rather than actual fact doesn't change what is.

I don't agree that he served enough of a term, and I think he's a complete and utter dick. But, that doesn't change what these dogs are bred for. I've seen some nice ones, and I've seen the reality of them snapping. Fact is, you have no way of knowing for 100% sure the cute little puppy you get isn't going to go ballistic on you at some point in it's life. I've even seen half pit, and half shepherd snap on someone...

What is, is. No amount of "feel-goodism" is going to change that.

 

[Anguille]

And yeah, when the same people in this thread never have anything to say about people being murdered, but get their panties in a wad over vicious animals that shouldn't exist to begin with, I'd call that retarded.

I didn't see anywhere in this thread that you had any compassion for these dogs. You called them nothing but tools earlier. Before you go lecturing people about compassion and changing the topic to veer the way you want it to, let me ask, do you have any of your own?

 

[Anguille]

Knowing pits that were "great family pets" does not change the fact that they ARE specifically bred to fight, whether we like it or not. It's been done for so long now that it IS a natural instinct with them, and whether or not they're "family" dogs, the fact is *anything can make them snap and revert back to form.*

DIS FAIL

See Ravi for details.

No fail, and I do not need to see Ravi for anything. Just because you're posting on emotion rather than actual fact doesn't change what is.

I don't agree that he served enough of a term, and I think he's a complete and utter dick. But, that doesn't change what these dogs are bred for. I've seen some nice ones, and I've seen the reality of them snapping. Fact is, you have no way of knowing for 100% sure the cute little puppy you get isn't going to go ballistic on you at some point in it's life. I've even seen half pit, and half shepherd snap on someone...

What is, is. No amount of "feel-goodism" is going to change that.

What are your facts? You're just another victim of fear mongering. No dog is 100% safe. Nothing feel goodish about speaking out against misguided attempts to make dog and human contacts safer, such a breed based laws against certain dogs. The Center for Disease Control, The Society for the Prevention Of Cruelty to Animals and major veterinary organizations have all come out in opposition to them as they do nothing to make anyone any safer and they detract from the need to prosecute animal abusers under the laws we already have and from keeping people focused on what really is effective in keeping violent dog/ human interactions at a minimum, ie proper training and care.

 

[Dis]

DIS FAIL

See Ravi for details.

No fail, and I do not need to see Ravi for anything. Just because you're posting on emotion rather than actual fact doesn't change what is.

I don't agree that he served enough of a term, and I think he's a complete and utter dick. But, that doesn't change what these dogs are bred for. I've seen some nice ones, and I've seen the reality of them snapping. Fact is, you have no way of knowing for 100% sure the cute little puppy you get isn't going to go ballistic on you at some point in it's life. I've even seen half pit, and half shepherd snap on someone...

What is, is. No amount of "feel-goodism" is going to change that.

What are your facts? You're just another victim of fear mongering. No dog is 100% safe. Nothing feel goodish about speaking out against misguided attempts to make dog and human contacts safer, such a breed based laws against certain dogs. The CDC, The SPA And major veterinary organizations have all come out in opposition to them as they do nothing to make anyone any safer and they detract from the need to prosecute animal abusers under the laws we already have and from keeping people focused on what really is effective in keeping violent dog/ human interactions at a minimum, ie proper training and care.

Where on earth do you get "fear" from?

 

[Anguille]

Honestly, Angie, I don't understand your hard-headedness on this topic.

I friend of mine was singing the praises of her pit the other day...after it got annoyed at her little yorkie, picked it up in it's teeth and flung it around like a toy.

That dog would be toast if it were mine.

Cuz I did a little research instead of relying on old wive's tales and anecdotes on message boards. Why do you think I would consider you a better expert on safety with dogs than organisations that have actualy researched the issue?

Also, none of the stuff you say about breeding and the domestication of animals makes any scientific sense.

Some of you people who think pit bulls came from the devil have the same delusions about other breeds. You think golden retrievers are lambs. You are doing yourselves a major disservice when you think that a dog is a robot and that genes make some dogs evil and others saintly.

Because of misguided bans on pit bulls in some towns people have had to put their perfectly innocent pets to sleep or move or give them away. Dogs that have done no one to any harm. Meanwhile nothing is done in these towns to prevent animal abuse and neglect which is the real cause of vicious dogs. No one is any safer after these stupid laws are enacted.

 

[Dis]

Honestly, Angie, I don't understand your hard-headedness on this topic.

I friend of mine was singing the praises of her pit the other day...after it got annoyed at her little yorkie, picked it up in it's teeth and flung it around like a toy.

That dog would be toast if it were mine.

Cuz I did a little research instead of relying on old wive's tales and anecdotes on message boards. Why do you think I would consider you a better expert on safety with dogs than organisations that have actualy researched the issue?

Also, none of the stuff you say about breeding and the domestication of animals makes any scientific sense.

Some of you people who think pit bulls came from the devil have the same delusions about other breeds. You think golden retrievers are lambs. You are doing yourselves a major disservice when you think that a dog is a robot and that genes make some dogs evil and others saintly.

Because of misguided bans on pit bulls in some towns people have had to put their perfectly innocent pets to sleep or move or give them away. Dogs that have done no one to any harm. Meanwhile nothing is done in these towns to prevent animal abuse and neglect which is the real cause of vicious dogs. No one is any safer after these stupid laws are enacted.

Oh, NOW you believe in the devil, when it serves to back your little rant..

Fact is, ANY dog is prone to flipping it's lid. Those bred specifically to be attack dogs, or fight dogs are MORE prone to it, whether you like it or not.

 

[Anguille]

Honestly, Angie, I don't understand your hard-headedness on this topic.

I friend of mine was singing the praises of her pit the other day...after it got annoyed at her little yorkie, picked it up in it's teeth and flung it around like a toy.

That dog would be toast if it were mine.

Cuz I did a little research instead of relying on old wive's tales and anecdotes on message boards. Why do you think I would consider you a better expert on safety with dogs than organisations that have actualy researched the issue?

Also, none of the stuff you say about breeding and the domestication of animals makes any scientific sense.

Some of you people who think pit bulls came from the devil have the same delusions about other breeds. You think golden retrievers are lambs. You are doing yourselves a major disservice when you think that a dog is a robot and that genes make some dogs evil and others saintly.

Because of misguided bans on pit bulls in some towns people have had to put their perfectly innocent pets to sleep or move or give them away. Dogs that have done no one to any harm. Meanwhile nothing is done in these towns to prevent animal abuse and neglect which is the real cause of vicious dogs. No one is any safer after these stupid laws are enacted.

Oh, NOW you believe in the devil, when it serves to back your little rant..

Fact is, ANY dog is prone to flipping it's lid. Those bred specifically to be attack dogs, or fight dogs are MORE prone to it, whether you like it or not.

Maybe I'm too subtle for you. I don't believe in the devil.