Methods off preaching, conversion, spreading the Faith and religious tolerance

[MissileMan]

i like this right afforded by the geneva convention:

Part II. Humane Treatment

Art. 4. Fundamental guarantees

"3. Children shall be provided with the care and aid they require, and in particular: (a) they shall receive an education, including religious and moral education, in keeping with the wishes of their parents....",

www.genevaconventions.org

so since i live in california surrounded by a hostile force can i decalre myself a capture enemy combatant and demand that my child receive an education, including religious and moral education, in keeping with the wishes of their parents...."

barabar boxer i surrender.....teach my child about god

Take it up with the warden!

 

[Shattered]

(a) they shall receive an education, including religious and moral education, in keeping with the wishes of their parents...."

...in keeping with the wishes of their parents. If a parent wants someone ELSE to teach their children of religion, that's their perrogative. If the parent wishes against, that wish should be granted with just as much gusto as wishes "for"....

 

[freeandfun1]

...in keeping with the wishes of their parents. If a parent wants someone ELSE to teach their children of religion, that's their prerogative. If the parent wishes against, that wish should be granted with just as much gusto as wishes "for"....

did anybody say or elude otherwise?

I am confused... what point are you trying to make? I must assume that you are in agreement with what Manu posted then.

 

[Said1]

...in keeping with the wishes of their parents. If a parent wants someone ELSE to teach their children of religion, that's their perrogative. If the parent wishes against, that wish should be granted with just as much gusto as wishes "for"....

Parents and the religious education of their children is one thing, and the legitimacy of controlled speech in the work place is another. I'm confused about the education point myself.

 

[Shattered]

Merely that those that are "for" something should give the same consideration to those that are "against" it.. Equal consideration in all cases... If I don't want my child taught religion at school, that should be met with the same consideration as wanting my child taught religion at school... Make it an extracirricular activity that the parents have to fill out a permission slip for, if they'd like their child to participate.

The same should hold true in the workplace.. Discuss your extracirricular activities during break time; not during the time you're punched in.. Everybody gets what they want, nobody is made to feel excluded, and life goes on... If your employer states that such discussions are allowed, that's one thing.. But if your boss states that such discussions (and those of TV shows, sports, weather, etc.) are not to be discussed on company time for any reason, then that's the way it should be, without the insistence that some God-given "right" is being violated.

It's not so much "controlled speech" as it is condsideration for those around you who may, or may not hold the same views (it may be that such "consideration" is mandated by your employer)... At least during break times, you can choose to participate, or you can choose to take your break elsewhere. During working hours, you may not choose to work "elsewhere" - you're required to do specific things, in specific places, at specific times.

So yes, if that's what Manu was alluding to, then I agree with him. If he was stating that religion should be taught in school to all children, regardless of others wishes, then I disagree...

(If this is going to turn into a big bashfest, and fight, I'm not interested...If not...I am.)

 

[freeandfun1]

Merely that those that are "for" something should give the same consideration to those that are "against" it.. Equal consideration in all cases... If I don't want my child taught religion at school, that should be met with the same consideration as wanting my child taught religion at school... Make it an extracurricular activity that the parents have to fill out a permission slip for, if they'd like their child to participate.

The same should hold true in the workplace.. Discuss your extracurricular activities during break time; not during the time you're punched in.. Everybody gets what they want, nobody is made to feel excluded, and life goes on... If your employer states that such discussions are allowed, that's one thing.. But if your boss states that such discussions (and those of TV shows, sports, weather, etc.) are not to be discussed on company time for any reason, then that's the way it should be, without the insistence that some God-given "right" is being violated.

It's not so much "controlled speech" as it is consideration for those around you who may, or may not hold the same views (it may be that such "consideration" is mandated by your employer)... At least during break times, you can choose to participate, or you can choose to take your break elsewhere. During working hours, you may not choose to work "elsewhere" - you're required to do specific things, in specific places, at specific times.

So yes, if that's what Manu was alluding to, then I agree with him. If he was stating that religion should be taught in school to all children, regardless of others wishes, then I disagree...

(If this is going to turn into a big bashfest, and fight, I'm not interested...If not...I am.)

Why should we have to make the teaching of religion extra-curricular? Why not the opposite? I would argue there are probably many more that would want their kids taught religion (not any one faith, just the idea of it) in school than not.

Why not make the parent that DON'T want their kids taught about religion fill out a form stating such? Why is the onus always put on those that follow a Christian faith? This is another example of the minority overriding the rights of the majority.

 

[Shattered]

Why should we have to make the teaching of religion extra-curricular? Why not the opposite? I would argue there are probably many more that would want their kids taught religion (not any one faith, just the idea of it) in school than not.

Why not make the parent that DON'T want their kids taught about religion fill out a form stating such? Why is the onus always put on those that follow a Christian faith? This is another example of the minority overriding the rights of the majority.

In either case, it should be the parents final decision, and nobody elses. If that means the child not partaking should have their parents fill out a permission slip, so be it. The end result is the same.

This isn't another example of the minority over-riding anything - that statement was purely picky, intended to get a rise out of someone. You know perfectly well it makes no difference to me who has to fill out said form so long as nobody is forced into participating.

 

[Gem]

freeandfun makes an excellent point.

In the world we live in today, where wars are being fought by people who think they are doing God's/Allah's will.
Are we doing a disservice to our younger generations by NOT teaching them about the religions of the world? Should we be teaching Intro to Islam/Christianity/Judaism/Buddhism/Shintoism/Taoism/Hinduism/Etc. as some sort of elective during their junior and senior years in high school?

They could be taught from a completely non-preaching standpoint...simply from a "this is what these people believe...this is where their beliefs come from." Parent who choose to have their children opt out can put them in other electives, Creative Writing, Underwater Basket Weaving, etc. But those who think that giving their children a background in what people around the world believe, and what some people are fighting, dying and killing for would be able to....

 

[freeandfun1]

In either case, it should be the parents final decision, and nobody elses. If that means the child not partaking should have their parents fill out a permission slip, so be it. The end result is the same.

This isn't another example of the minority over-riding anything - that statement was purely picky, intended to get a rise out of someone. You know perfectly well it makes no difference to me who has to fill out said form so long as nobody is forced into participating.

And Manu's point was that even the Geneva Convention says that it should be up to the parents, and so he was saying, based on the GC, he he wants his kids taught religion. That was the point he was making and I agree with it.

(he was being sarcastic. as you know, many libs say that in Iraq, we have to live by the GC, yet they won't live by it here..... another one of those double standards of the left).

 

[Shattered]

And Manu's point was that even the Geneva Convention says that it should be up to the parents, and so he was saying, based on the GC, he he wants his kids taught religion. That was the point he was making and I agree with it.

(he was being sarcastic. as you know, many libs say that in Iraq, we have to live by the GC, yet they won't live by it here..... another one of those double standards of the left).

Then as previously stated, I agree with him.

 

[freeandfun1]

freeandfun makes an excellent point.

In the world we live in today, where wars are being fought by people who think they are doing God's/Allah's will.
Are we doing a disservice to our younger generations by NOT teaching them about the religions of the world? Should we be teaching Intro to Islam/Christianity/Judaism/Buddhism/Shintoism/Taoism/Hinduism/Etc. as some sort of elective during their junior and senior years in high school?

They could be taught from a completely non-preaching standpoint...simply from a "this is what these people believe...this is where their beliefs come from." Parent who choose to have their children opt out can put them in other electives, Creative Writing, Underwater Basket Weaving, etc. But those who think that giving their children a background in what people around the world believe, and what some people are fighting, dying and killing for would be able to....

Thanks Gem. But unfortunately, it has already been shown that the libs are willing to teach Judaism, Islam, etc. in schools, they just don't want Christianity being taught. Look at that school district in California last year that had their students take Muslim names for a day and practice Islamic beliefs out of an attempt to "understand" them. If you tried that but replaced Muslim/Islamic with Christian, you would be tarred and feathered.

 

[Gem]

freeandfun,

I know about these programs, and to a great extent I have no problem with them (until they start requiring children to participate in order to pass, or require children to pray to Allah - which I have read about in some programs), but I DO have a problem with not making Christianity part of a mini-lesson on religion in general...Christianity, Judaism, and Islam...and I would add a few of the much "lesser known in our part of the world" religions.

Its an example of the anti-Christian bias overtaking our public schools, and its a shame, because we could make learning about ALL religions part of an elective program of education.

 

[freeandfun1]

freeandfun,

I know about these programs, and to a great extent I have no problem with them (until they start requiring children to participate in order to pass, or require children to pray to Allah - which I have read about in some programs), but I DO have a problem with not making Christianity part of a mini-lesson on religion in general...Christianity, Judaism, and Islam...and I would add a few of the much "lesser known in our part of the world" religions.

Its an example of the anti-Christian bias overtaking our public schools, and its a shame, because we could make learning about ALL religions part of an elective program of education.

I agree. I have studied many religions and it is interesting and enlightening. They just need to be equal across the board. And they should try to act like Christianity had NO ROLE in the founding of this GREAT Nation.

 

[MissileMan]

Thanks Gem. But unfortunately, it has already been shown that the libs are willing to teach Judaism, Islam, etc. in schools, they just don't want Christianity being taught. Look at that school district in California last year that had their students take Muslim names for a day and practice Islamic beliefs out of an attempt to "understand" them. If you tried that but replaced Muslim/Islamic with Christian, you would be tarred and feathered.

What would be the point of having a Christian "awareness" class where a majority of the students are probably Christian? We had theme days like this when I was in school, but it was Mexican Day, or Chinese Day, etc. They were designed to make learning about another culture more entertaining than just reading out of a book.

 

[Said1]

Merely that those that are "for" something should give the same consideration to those that are "against" it.. Equal consideration in all cases... If I don't want my child taught religion at school, that should be met with the same consideration as wanting my child taught religion at school... Make it an extracirricular activity that the parents have to fill out a permission slip for, if they'd like their child to participate.

You make it sound as though teaching religion is going to brainwash your children. If they are in a public school, isn't the material presented in a way that teaches about cultural differences, instead of the correct "path".

The same should hold true in the workplace.. Discuss your extracirricular activities during break time; not during the time you're punched in.. Everybody gets what they want, nobody is made to feel excluded, and life goes on... If your employer states that such discussions are allowed, that's one thing.. But if your boss states that such discussions (and those of TV shows, sports, weather, etc.) are not to be discussed on company time for any reason, then that's the way it should be, without the insistence that some God-given "right" is being violated.

It's not so much "controlled speech" as it is condsideration for those around you who may, or may not hold the same views (it may be that such "consideration" is mandated by your employer)... At least during break times, you can choose to participate, or you can choose to take your break elsewhere. During working hours, you may not choose to work "elsewhere" - you're required to do specific things, in specific places, at specific times.

Idle chit chat while at work is usually frowned upon, sure., that's a no brainer. On the other hand, most employers who enforce PC policies regarding what they feel is appropriate discussion do include break time. By doing this, they are assuming their employees are unable to think for themselves, and use good judgement. Sure, there is always the odd moron who can't keep their pie hole shut, but the actions of one or two people should not dictate policy for an entire company for fear of legal action.

(If this is going to turn into a big bashfest, and fight, I'm not interested...If not...I am.)

BTW, this isn't a bash fest. Discourse is part of the variety that is the spice of life.

 

[Shattered]

You make it sound as though teaching religion is going to brainwash your children. If they are in a public school, isn't the material presented in a way that teaches about cultural differences, instead of the correct "path".

I think it depends on the "teacher".. There are very few teachers that don't put some kind of personal bias into their teachings. With personal bias, there can't really be "open education" (for lack of a better word).. The lessons are going to slant more one way than the other..

Idle chit chat while at work is usually frowned upon, sure., that's a no brainer. On the other hand, most employers who enforce PC policies regarding what they feel is appropriate discussion do include break time. By doing this, they are assuming their employees are unable to think for themselves, and use good judgement. Sure, there is always the odd moron who can't keep their pie hole shut, but the actions of one or two people should not dictate policy for an entire company for fear of legal action.

If breaks are paid by the company, then I'd have to say the employer has the right to dictate policy on what can be discussed.. Not saying it's 100% *right*, but... However, if breaks are unpaid, it's my opinion that it's essentially the employees own personal time, and they should be able to do pretty much as they see fit, so long as no harm comes to anyone around them, and/or company property, and they're not breaking any laws.. I guess simple common sense would come into play.

BTW, this isn't a bash fest. Discourse is part of the variety that is the spice of life.

I agree.. But I think "discourse" (for the most part) was lacking yesterday.. That was more like a schoolyard brawl, IMO.

 

[Said1]

I think it depends on the "teacher".. There are very few teachers that don't put some kind of personal bias into their teachings. With personal bias, there can't really be "open education" (for lack of a better word).. The lessons are going to slant more one way than the other..j

Slant? In a secular school? Maybe here and there, but I think you're kids would be safe learning about certain customs and religions without fear of bias.

If breaks are paid by the company, then I'd have to say the employer has the right to dictate policy on what can be discussed.. Not saying it's 100% *right*, but... However, if breaks are unpaid, it's my opinion that it's essentially the employees own personal time, and they should be able to do pretty much as they see fit, so long as no harm comes to anyone around them, and/or company property, and they're not breaking any laws.. I guess simple common sense would come into play.

I wouldn't be breaking any laws by using common sense and discussing religion in a polite non-threatening manner despite company policy either.

I agree.. But I think "discourse" (for the most part) was lacking yesterday.. That was more like a schoolyard brawl, IMO.

Agreed, but that's what the ignore button is for too.

 

[Shattered]

We have an "ignore" feature??? Hook me up!

 

[Said1]

We have an "ignore" feature??? Hook me up!

I forget where it is exactly, I think you can access in your pm box.

 

[UsaPride]

I forget where it is exactly, I think you can access in your pm box.

It's in the UserCP, on the left hand side towards the bottom.