Mental illness

[KittenKoder]

So the long and short of it is..if you are able to recognize what your problem is, and you find the med that makes you feel better, go with it. Why feel like crap if you don't have to?

On the other hand, if you know what your problem is, and you want to deal with it on your own, and can, successfully, do so, there is nothing wrong with that.

And as far as experimenting with drugs on children who are a little antsy (imagine, kids who are antsy) or sex offenders who are fucked up every way from Sunday, that's bullshit. It's much easier for a crazy person, who can't be cured or even soothed by medication, to live a life with symptoms he knows and can cope with on some level year in and year out than it is for that person to continually have to deal with new symptoms and side effects caused by meds arbitrarily and carelessly prescribed by doctors who are just guessing.

Meanwhile, those of us who have issues with things like pain can't get our asshole doctors to give us what we need to cope with a sore throat that lasts for 2 weeks, or 3 inch bone spurs in our backs.

Fucking doctors.

Welcome to the junky country ...

 

[editec]

If it were possible to be drug free and mentally healthy that would be ideal. Unfortunately, some are unable to benefit from psychotherapy without medication.

Exactly right

Eots is right about side effects.

Yes he (or she) is right.

They have to be monitored.

Sadly, I'm not sure that monitoring them really always makes much difference. Some of these drugs just have negative long term effects regardless of monitoring. Thorazine, for example, is going to cause problems if used for a long time.

I'm convinced my mother's early death at age 63 was related to long term haldol use.

I don't doubt it one bit.

Eots is wrong if he is against psych medication for others.

If that is his position (I'm not sure it really is...I Suspect RGS is, per usual, misinterpreting eots position) then yes, eots is wrong

We have choices, and some choose no medication, others finally find relief with medication.

If the choice is to be suicidal or completely disfuctional today, or doing nothing (and it is sadly often exactly that Hobson's choice) then one does have a hard choice to make, for sure.

When I was very ill, I choose medication.

Now that I am not so very ill, I choose not to take it precisely because I don't trust the long term effects of those meds, either.

Like many of you, I am convinced that the medical establishment is passing out too many psychotropic meds to far too many people...especially children!

 

[Sky Dancer]

I have considerable understanding of mental illness and the effects of medication from my professional work and from my personal experience with mentally ill relatives.

I suggest you debate the topic more and let us know why you have such an axe to grind on this issue rather than insulting those of us who are sincerely interested in benefiting people iwth mental illness.

don't send me neg reps and shitty little messages in private..back up your statements with facts.information..or not
you tell me of a death due to anti psychotics in one breath them support them in the next...that makes no sense

It is my perogative to neg rep your post I am sure you retaliated. You are welcome to print what I wrote in the rep, it's public domain. You insist on acting like you are the only person here who knows anything about mental illness and medication.

I have considerable experience in this field of study, both personal and professional. I am passionate about the topic. Yes taking any kind of drug has risk factors. When someone is born with brain problems organically then medication is a help to many of those individuals.

I lost both parents to mental illness and I have two sisters I'm estranged from due to their mental illnesses. I have worked in human service my whole career to help relieve suffering.

You have a view that is anti-medication, and I am telling you its a bias. There is plenty of evidence of people being helped by the combination of medication and therapy.

Medication has risks and should of course by prescribed by a competent doctor and monitnored and reassessed by patient and doctor for minimization of side effects and maximazation of benefit.

I have no opposition to the use of alternative therapies. But in my experience, someone with severe and persistent mental illness needs all three: medication, psychotherapy and adjunct alternative therapies like meditation, acupuncture, movment therapy and sometimes herbal remedies.

 

[Sky Dancer]

You doubt my mother died of long term haldol use, I disagree. I was there, you were not.


side effects of haldol (which is not prescribed much now):


Haldol
Cardiovascular Effects
Tachycardia, hypotension, and hypertension have been reported. QT prolongation and/or ventricular arrhythmias have also been reported, in addition to ECG pattern changes compatible with the polymorphous configuration of torsade de pointes, and may occur more frequently with high doses and in predisposed patients.

Cases of sudden and unexpected death have been reported in association with the administration of Haldol. The nature of the evidence makes it impossible to determine definitively what role, if any, Haldol played in the outcome of the reported cases. The possibility that Haldol caused death cannot, of course, be excluded, but it is to be kept in mind that sudden and unexpected death may occur in psychotic patients when they go untreated or when they are treated with other antipsychotic drugs.
Haldol Side Effects | Drugs.com

My mother died suddenly her blood pressure dropped to zero, she dropped dead.


I still support the use of psych meds. If my mother hadn't been diagnosed with schizophrenia her psychotic symptoms would have likely resulted in some kind of violence or homelessness or both, which may also have killed her.

She was a missing person to me for 35 years.

 

[editec]

You doubt my mother died of long term haldol use, I disagree. I was there, you were not.

I wrote that I DON'T doubt that, Sky.

 

[Sky Dancer]

You doubt my mother died of long term haldol use, I disagree. I was there, you were not.

I wrote that I DON'T doubt that, Sky.

OK. Thank you for correcting me.

 

[editec]

You doubt my mother died of long term haldol use, I disagree. I was there, you were not.

I wrote that I DON'T doubt that, Sky.

OK. Thank you for correcting me.

No problema, amiga.

In fact, I had to check just to make sure that I hadn't typed the exact opposite of my intended meaning

I sometimes do that.

 

[geauxtohell]

Medical practitioners have a lot invested in pushing their drugs as much as they can, even when they are unneeded, this is simple fact.

Not true. Medical providers do not earn a commission on the drugs they prescribe. The goal is helping people to get well. Unfortunately, for chronic conditions, like diabetes, you can only delay the medication. You can't cure it (as of yet).

The sad effect is that most of the people in the US are blind to what these drugs do, most have side effects that greatly outweigh the benefit, which is usually very small.

That depends on the drug. Some SSRI's, like cymbalta are only 18% effective when you account for the placebo effect. Some drugs are very potent.

I do agree with your first statement when it comes to narcotics. IMO, Physicians do a lousy job of telling people they are being given opiates when they give them narcs and inadvertantly create addicts.

Then there are antidepressant ... which have the common side effect of suicidal tendencies, which completely negates the benefit.

What is not clear is if the medication or the underlying condition causes this problem. If Cymbalta is only 18% effective, than 82% of the depressed people on cymbalta are receiving now pharmacologic benefit from it. Once you account for the placebo effect (30%) less than half are. Thus, they are still depressed, though they think they are being treated for it.

Not to mention the fact that all medications cause liver damage,

Not true.

and too much liver damage means you will need the medical facilities even more and for the rest of your life, costing outrageous amounts.

Cirrhosis of the liver or liver failure overwhelmingly has two common etiologies: alcohol abuse and viral hepatitis.

Yes, they want you on meds for everything, even though there are alternatives to hard drugs for most problems.

Unfortunately, the "naturalist" movement's claims (assuming you are talking about that), never live up to scientific scrutiny.

A few mental problems, medication is the only way to let the person function, but most which are addressed (depression, emotional disorders, etc.) are symptoms, not causes, and the actual causes tend to be repressed emotions or experiences. Medications dull the memory and repress these causes instead of healing them, thus those who are on the meds are never healed, never whole, and NEVER healthy.

Which is why counseling should go hand and hand with psychiatric medication. The field of psychiatry has, regrettably gone away from this practice in favor of a more pharmacotherapy based practice. However, the field is trying to move back into a more balanced perspective of analysis and pharmacotherapy.

The bottom line is, though, if you don't want to utilize psyciatric medicine, you don't have too.

 

[geauxtohell]

sincerely..if you find these drugs work for you and physically you can tolerate them I am happy to hear that..but people need to be fully informed of all options and drugs should always be the last resort..and anyone choosing a different treatment should be given all the rights..options and respect they deserve..my role as an advocate is to support those seeking alternatives and that are unhappy with the results of medication and a firm belief that drugs should not be given without consent in a first psychotic episode...and there is sound reasoning to support this

I fully agree that a more informed patient is much better than the contra. I also am grateful that there are people who advocate for patient's rights.

However, "alternatives" that haven't meet scientific scrutiny are not real alternatives. This is my problem with alternative medicine in general. Before you can offer alternatives, there should be hard medical based evidence to support your claims. It is not enough to point out the problems inherent to western medicine. Western medicine is, by design, extremely critical of itself, as it should be. Alternative medicine needs to to establish some of it's own claims and there are numerous cases of severe patient harm being done at the hands of holistic "doctors".

Case in point, our dental school had a woman present with a mass in her pallet. They biopsied it and found out it was a weird primary ductal carcinoma (like breast cancer) and set her up with chemo and radiation.

Instead of that, she went to a naturalistic "doctor" and he shot her mass up with baking soda for a year. When she re-presented to the dental school, the mass virtually occluded her throat and her prognosis was weeks.

Now tell me how "alternative" medicine benefitted her?

 

[eots]

I would like to point out all of the information I have posted is from qualified psychiatrist and major university's and medical institutions not holistic sites... most of them published in the American journal of psychiatry and other well know psychiatric periodicals..and done with large numbers of patients and control groups over a number of years..I am not anti-medication..I am however anti drug company propaganda.. drug company's like any corporation have but one agenda and that is profit and growth not the best interest of the individual...I would strongly encourage anyone on these medications or with a sincere concern in the best interest of those who are.. to read the information in these studies ..psychiatrist are just people and I have often been appalled with many psychiatrist that have done nothing to stay current with new studies and approaches other than drug company funded seminars in their many years of practice and all true learning and passion stopped the day they got their degree


PsychRights®
Law Project for
Psychiatric Rights

Neuroleptics and Chronic Mental Illness

 

[AllieBaba]

So the long and short of it is..if you are able to recognize what your problem is, and you find the med that makes you feel better, go with it. Why feel like crap if you don't have to?

On the other hand, if you know what your problem is, and you want to deal with it on your own, and can, successfully, do so, there is nothing wrong with that.

And as far as experimenting with drugs on children who are a little antsy (imagine, kids who are antsy) or sex offenders who are fucked up every way from Sunday, that's bullshit. It's much easier for a crazy person, who can't be cured or even soothed by medication, to live a life with symptoms he knows and can cope with on some level year in and year out than it is for that person to continually have to deal with new symptoms and side effects caused by meds arbitrarily and carelessly prescribed by doctors who are just guessing.

Meanwhile, those of us who have issues with things like pain can't get our asshole doctors to give us what we need to cope with a sore throat that lasts for 2 weeks, or 3 inch bone spurs in our backs.

Fucking doctors.

Welcome to the junky country ...

Yes, well, as I told the assholes who didn't want to treat my tooth abcesses (3 of them) and who accused me of "med seeking" when I'd run out of pain meds and call for more...

"Fix my fucking teeth and I'll stop asking you for fucking meds."

Same thing with the two-week sore throat. Have gone through one cycle of antibiotics, which didn't alleviate the pain until the 4th day after I started them....and after which I'd taken the prescribed regiment resulted in an even worse sore throat starting Sunday. Back to the dr. on Monday, "gosh, I don't know, come in tomorrow for some blood work and here are a few pain pills. Take 3 a day." Sorry, 300 mg of tylenol with 30 mg of codeine doesn't last 8 hours. 2 last four to six.

Today's thursday, still don't have meds, sore throat (did I tell you my dad died of cancer of the larnyx?) continues to worsen, and I received a vague message from the clinic saying, "gosh, don't know why your throat is giving you so much trouble. don't take too much tylenol, maybe try some motrin."

Hey asshole, I TOLD you guys, 3 times now, I've been taking motrin, aspirin, regular tylenol and the ty 3s while they lasted, switching them off and taking the motrin with the tylenol (which works really well, btw). Give me some fucking pain meds, and give me a dosage that is actually calculated to bring relief. Fucking 1 pill every 8 hours. Are they serious?

And as I'll tell them when I stop by after lunch....I'll stop harassing you when you give me something that fucking allows me to talk without pain, to sleep without pain, and to go on my vacation tomorrow without having to pull into Portland and spend three hours waiting in an ER for someone to see me.

 

[AllieBaba]

Psychotherapy is a waste of time on the severely mentally ill....or even those who just don't want it in the first place.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Psychotherapy is a waste of time on the severely mentally ill....or even those who just don't want it in the first place.

No it isn't. The severely mentally ill benefit from dual diagnosis treatment approaches in pspsychotherapy and whatever medication allows it to work.

That doesn't mean some of them don't cotinue to be disabled as a result of their mental illnesses.

 

[geauxtohell]

I would like to point out all of the information I have posted is from qualified psychiatrist and major university's and medical institutions not holistic sites... most of them published in the American journal of psychiatry and other well know psychiatric periodicals..and done with large numbers of patients and control groups over a number of years..I am not anti-medication..I am however anti drug company propaganda.. drug company's like any corporation have but one agenda and that is profit and growth not the best interest of the individual...I would strongly encourage anyone on these medications or with a sincere concern in the best interest of those who are.. to read the information in these studies ..psychiatrist are just people and I have often been appalled with many psychiatrist that have done nothing to stay current with new studies and approaches other than drug company funded seminars in their many years of practice and all true learning and passion stopped the day they got their degree


PsychRights®
Law Project for
Psychiatric Rights

Neuroleptics and Chronic Mental Illness

Of course your studies are from legitimate sources. As I pointed out to you, medicine as a whole is tremendously critical of itself. That is not inherent to psychiatry or any field of medicine. You will find studies critical of the status quo in every field of medicine, because ultimately the patient benefits from that. Critique doesn't equate to consensus, however, and the standards of practice are based off of consensus.

As I stated earlier, it would be nice to see alternative medicine subject itself to the same scrutiny. It does not. It's best tactic is to point it's finger at psychiatry, and offer no workable (by workable, I mean supported by legitimate medical evidence and not anecdotes) alternatives. That's the problem. If alternative medicine could prove that chewing dandilions pulled people out of depression, than physicians would be writing scripts for dandilions.

It's too easy to scapegoat Psychiatry and "Big Pharm" (I agree with some of your sentiments about the medical profession and pharmaceuticals). It's much hard to offer real alternatives.

That being said, what are your alternatives?

I ask because, depending on who you talk to, the alternative can be anything from clearing "toxins" to "phetons from Lord Xenu".

 

[geauxtohell]

So the long and short of it is..if you are able to recognize what your problem is, and you find the med that makes you feel better, go with it. Why feel like crap if you don't have to?

On the other hand, if you know what your problem is, and you want to deal with it on your own, and can, successfully, do so, there is nothing wrong with that.

And as far as experimenting with drugs on children who are a little antsy (imagine, kids who are antsy) or sex offenders who are fucked up every way from Sunday, that's bullshit. It's much easier for a crazy person, who can't be cured or even soothed by medication, to live a life with symptoms he knows and can cope with on some level year in and year out than it is for that person to continually have to deal with new symptoms and side effects caused by meds arbitrarily and carelessly prescribed by doctors who are just guessing.

Meanwhile, those of us who have issues with things like pain can't get our asshole doctors to give us what we need to cope with a sore throat that lasts for 2 weeks, or 3 inch bone spurs in our backs.

Fucking doctors.

Welcome to the junky country ...

Yes, well, as I told the assholes who didn't want to treat my tooth abcesses (3 of them) and who accused me of "med seeking" when I'd run out of pain meds and call for more...

"Fix my fucking teeth and I'll stop asking you for fucking meds."

Same thing with the two-week sore throat. Have gone through one cycle of antibiotics, which didn't alleviate the pain until the 4th day after I started them....and after which I'd taken the prescribed regiment resulted in an even worse sore throat starting Sunday. Back to the dr. on Monday, "gosh, I don't know, come in tomorrow for some blood work and here are a few pain pills. Take 3 a day." Sorry, 300 mg of tylenol with 30 mg of codeine doesn't last 8 hours. 2 last four to six.

Today's thursday, still don't have meds, sore throat (did I tell you my dad died of cancer of the larnyx?) continues to worsen, and I received a vague message from the clinic saying, "gosh, don't know why your throat is giving you so much trouble. don't take too much tylenol, maybe try some motrin."

Hey asshole, I TOLD you guys, 3 times now, I've been taking motrin, aspirin, regular tylenol and the ty 3s while they lasted, switching them off and taking the motrin with the tylenol (which works really well, btw). Give me some fucking pain meds, and give me a dosage that is actually calculated to bring relief. Fucking 1 pill every 8 hours. Are they serious?

And as I'll tell them when I stop by after lunch....I'll stop harassing you when you give me something that fucking allows me to talk without pain, to sleep without pain, and to go on my vacation tomorrow without having to pull into Portland and spend three hours waiting in an ER for someone to see me.

Not to be rude, but I work up outpatients for Drs. as part of my education in an inner city hospital, and I would assume the same thing about you and convey it to my physician.

Drs. are getting pretty tight with their Narc (opiate based pain killers) script and when a patient comes in and insists that the only thing that can treat their pain is a narc, it automatically raises red flags. When the patient says they are going to hassel you until you give them what they want, it's a foregone conclusion.

I am just telling you this from my perspective. I don't know you or your medical history personally, so I am not making a judgement.

BTW, going to different Drs. to get a certain pain medication, is also frowned upon and Drs. regularly check out what other scripts you have been written from other institutions. I am in the midwest and have had hospitals in Washington state fax me medical records for this very reason.

 

[eots]

[ That's the problem. If alternative medicine could prove that chewing dandilions pulled people out of depression, than physicians would be writing scripts for dandilions.

unfortunately this is not the case as dandelions do not require a prescription and can not be patented and billions and billions of dollars would be lost so dandelin studies and information would be suppressed and discredited .. thats just how it is...sad but true

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_iXApBeT5s[/ame]

 

[eots]

In 1975 while studying for my diploma in Behavioral Science, I read a book by Dr. Abram Hoffer telling me that schizophrenia could be cured by large amounts of niacin and vitamin C. Having been well indoctrinated by allopathic medicine in my training as a registered nurse, I really didn't believe it. However, I gave the book to my girlfriend whose son was diagnosed with schizophrenia as a young teenager. She also didn't believe it. Now, some 26 years later, with a son of mine diagnosed six years ago with the label of paranoid schizophrenia, through grace, I have come to know that schizophrenia, and other so-called mental illnesses are really biochemical imbalances which can be balanced with dietary changes and supplements. I now know, on looking back on my son's life, that he was biochemically imbalanced almost from his birth. In the past I felt sad and angry that I trusted allopathic medicine totally, without question. Now I just want the joy of telling everyone I can that THERE IS HOPE AND SCHIZOPHRENIA CAN BE CURED. IT IS A BIOCHEMICAL IMBALANCE.

SCHIZOPHRENIA - THERE IS HOPE AND SCHIZOPHRENIA CAN BE CURED. IT IS A BIOCHEMICAL IMBALANCE

 

[Sky Dancer]

In 1975 while studying for my diploma in Behavioral Science, I read a book by Dr. Abram Hoffer telling me that schizophrenia could be cured by large amounts of niacin and vitamin C. Having been well indoctrinated by allopathic medicine in my training as a registered nurse, I really didn't believe it. However, I gave the book to my girlfriend whose son was diagnosed with schizophrenia as a young teenager. She also didn't believe it. Now, some 26 years later, with a son of mine diagnosed six years ago with the label of paranoid schizophrenia, through grace, I have come to know that schizophrenia, and other so-called mental illnesses are really biochemical imbalances which can be balanced with dietary changes and supplements. I now know, on looking back on my son's life, that he was biochemically imbalanced almost from his birth. In the past I felt sad and angry that I trusted allopathic medicine totally, without question. Now I just want the joy of telling everyone I can that THERE IS HOPE AND SCHIZOPHRENIA CAN BE CURED. IT IS A BIOCHEMICAL IMBALANCE.

SCHIZOPHRENIA - THERE IS HOPE AND SCHIZOPHRENIA CAN BE CURED. IT IS A BIOCHEMICAL IMBALANCE

I'm happy you've had a positive outcome in your family. I did not have one in mine. I completely disagree with your whole campaign to eliminate medication for people with psychiatric illness.

There are variations in people with these diagnoses and they are not 'so-called' mental illnesses. If you cared about others you would allow for the truth, that not all therapies work for all individuals and we would be aliies instead of enemies.

I suspect you get some kind of commission for herb sales or conspiracy agenda, eots.

 

[geauxtohell]

well first off anyone on antidepressants that starts to display any mania or psychosis should be taken off the drug not given an additional medication like a anti psychotic as the anti-depressant can without question be the cause..countless times i have seen an anti psychotic added to the medication as opposed to ceasing the anti-depressant..also there is strong evidence that patients psychosis fair far better by being stabilized with antipsychoticsfor only a short term then ceasing the medication instead of life long use of the drugs..relapse and hospitalization statiscally appears to be substantially less using this approach..also first episodes of psychosis should be treated with non-neuroleptic sedation and safe sanctuary along with psychotherapy as with this approach a significant amount of patients come out of the psychotic state with only the one episode once patients have entered in to treatment with neuroleptics the likelihood of further psychotic episodes increases and they are almost certain to have several relapses in their life time also diet.. vitamin therapy , psychotherapy lifestyle changes can greatly improve the mental state with many people...in fact one of the most successful recoveries I have ever seen was through this approach...and the fact that in control studies people in even sever psychosis improve dramatically with placebos can not be overlooked and this phenomenon requires more study than it has received..a single episode of mania or psycosis should not be presnted to the patient as a life sentence of medication as it often is

It sounds like your issue is with the severly mentally ill, not the average person using SSRI's to manage depression.

I agree with you about therapy to an extent.

I disagree with your statement that vitamins are therapeutic or curative in this instance, as there is not real evidence to support that (which is the truth. Individuals might have written "tell all" books here and there and you can tote those out, but they haven't been successful in proving their claims either).

Keep in mind that it takes SSRIs about a month to work and wear off, as people have to re-synthesize their receptors and catecholamines.

 

[geauxtohell]

In 1975 while studying for my diploma in Behavioral Science, I read a book by Dr. Abram Hoffer telling me that schizophrenia could be cured by large amounts of niacin and vitamin C. Having been well indoctrinated by allopathic medicine in my training as a registered nurse, I really didn't believe it. However, I gave the book to my girlfriend whose son was diagnosed with schizophrenia as a young teenager. She also didn't believe it. Now, some 26 years later, with a son of mine diagnosed six years ago with the label of paranoid schizophrenia, through grace, I have come to know that schizophrenia, and other so-called mental illnesses are really biochemical imbalances which can be balanced with dietary changes and supplements. I now know, on looking back on my son's life, that he was biochemically imbalanced almost from his birth. In the past I felt sad and angry that I trusted allopathic medicine totally, without question. Now I just want the joy of telling everyone I can that THERE IS HOPE AND SCHIZOPHRENIA CAN BE CURED. IT IS A BIOCHEMICAL IMBALANCE.

SCHIZOPHRENIA - THERE IS HOPE AND SCHIZOPHRENIA CAN BE CURED. IT IS A BIOCHEMICAL IMBALANCE

Damn right Schizophrenia is a biochemical imbalance. The best evidence is that schizophrenics have an vast over-abundance of dopamine in their thalamus (like reverse parkisons).

While I am glad this nurse had a good outcome, niacin and Vitamin C (vitamin C is water soluble, so if you take too much of it, you simply excrete it BTW) have not been shown to improve Schizophrenia.

Like I said, individual anecdotes don't equate to a cure.

I wish it were as easy as giving people niacin and Vitamin C.

BTW, studies show that nicotine attenuates the symptoms of schizophrenia (which is why a large number of them smoke). Should we start handing out cigarettes?

After all, those are natural.