Mental illness

[eots]

how about you show me where I ever said if I had my way nobody could be treated with drugs if they choose to..seeing as you made the first accusation and I clearly stated my position in this thread or is that too logical for you

You have stated in numerous threads you actively try to prevent people from taking medication, you actively try to get those medications banned and you actively seek out people that are so sick their Doctors have taken the extreme steps of committing them involuntarily.

Trying to ban an entire class of medications clearly shows you want NO ONE, informed or otherwise taking them.

I have never said any of this or done any of this..I actively try to inform people of the dangers of these drugs..people actively seek my help of which I graciously volunteer and represent them at review panels ..which is their legal right...do you have a problem with patients exercising their legal rights ?? or informing themselves ?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

how about you show me where I ever said if I had my way nobody could be treated with drugs if they choose to..seeing as you made the first accusation and I clearly stated my position in this thread or is that too logical for you

You have stated in numerous threads you actively try to prevent people from taking medication, you actively try to get those medications banned and you actively seek out people that are so sick their Doctors have taken the extreme steps of committing them involuntarily.

Trying to ban an entire class of medications clearly shows you want NO ONE, informed or otherwise taking them.

I have never said any of this or done any of this..I actively try to inform people of the dangers of these drugs..people actively seek my help of which I graciously volunteer and represent them at review panels ..which is their legal right...do you have a problem with patients exercising their legal rights ?? or informing themselves ?

You did not post this?

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I am not saying some people don't feel profoundly depressed or enter into states of psychosis ..I am saying that so called medications are not the solution and in many ways do as much harm as good ..psychiatry is in the stone age and advances and funding are held back due to the billions of dollars involved in drugging people..these practices will seem as barbaric as lobotomy's in the not to distant future...a single dose of neuroleptics can cause life long movement disorders especially in woman and should be the last resort..not the first option

 

[KittenKoder]

Wrong way to go, provide facts and quotes of me presenting extreme views. You made the claim back it up. My position on mental issues and medication are quite clearly stated in the numerous threads I have talked about it in.

You chose to attack me now back the shit up.

No, I am offering you an opportunity to prove me wrong. You however have not, instead you just avoided the statement ans question completely. If you had answered it then I would have been able to see your stance clearer, however since you avoided it I will continue to hold my opinion of your stance as the same.

Medical practitioners have a lot invested in pushing their drugs as much as they can, even when they are unneeded, this is simple fact. The sad effect is that most of the people in the US are blind to what these drugs do, most have side effects that greatly outweigh the benefit, which is usually very small. Then there are antidepressant ... which have the common side effect of suicidal tendencies, which completely negates the benefit. Not to mention the fact that all medications cause liver damage, and too much liver damage means you will need the medical facilities even more and for the rest of your life, costing outrageous amounts. Yes, they want you on meds for everything, even though there are alternatives to hard drugs for most problems. A few mental problems, medication is the only way to let the person function, but most which are addressed (depression, emotional disorders, etc.) are symptoms, not causes, and the actual causes tend to be repressed emotions or experiences. Medications dull the memory and repress these causes instead of healing them, thus those who are on the meds are never healed, never whole, and NEVER healthy.

In other words, you lied, have no evidence and refuse to back up your claim, hey thanks for proving you are a dumb shit. I suspect you went looking and found nothing so instead have tried to change the claim.

Once again you claim I have an extreme position, yet you can not tell us what that extreme position is, you can not cite previous posts to back up your nonspecific claim and you have tried to change the claim to somehow me supporting a practice of over medication. Again with absolutely no evidence and no facts to back up your ignorant claim.

You want clarification from me? ask nicely and cease the personal insults and attacks. You have participated in the threads in question where I and Eots have had numerous conversations about mental health. You are labeling me from a personal dislike that has no bearing at all on my stated position on these issues.

Retract your insult and we can move forward. or provide actual evidence I ever said any of what you are implying. Hell you can not even articulate what my supposed extreme position is.

... and once again someone is being dishonest and accusing another of lying when it is not true. To lie one would have to know the truth, I was giving my opinion. Now you accuse me of attacking, when all I did was offer what I know as fact, with my opinion of you, but thank you for demonstrating that I was right in my opinion, you are an extremist. My opinion was not from any emotional attachment to you, in other words, I really don't care. I gave you a chance, you failed twice to prove my wrong, none of this was an attack, you just wanted it to be.

 

[KittenKoder]

You have stated in numerous threads you actively try to prevent people from taking medication, you actively try to get those medications banned and you actively seek out people that are so sick their Doctors have taken the extreme steps of committing them involuntarily.

Trying to ban an entire class of medications clearly shows you want NO ONE, informed or otherwise taking them.

I have never said any of this or done any of this..I actively try to inform people of the dangers of these drugs..people actively seek my help of which I graciously volunteer and represent them at review panels ..which is their legal right...do you have a problem with patients exercising their legal rights ?? or informing themselves ?

You did not post this?

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I am not saying some people don't feel profoundly depressed or enter into states of psychosis ..I am saying that so called medications are not the solution and in many ways do as much harm as good ..psychiatry is in the stone age and advances and funding are held back due to the billions of dollars involved in drugging people..these practices will seem as barbaric as lobotomy's in the not to distant future...a single dose of neuroleptics can cause life long movement disorders especially in woman and should be the last resort..not the first option

More proof that you only think in extremes, that does not say "do away with medications altogether" in any way.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

That is hilarious, you claim I am an extremest , you can not specify HOW I am an extremest, you can not provide one quote that supports your claim AND then demand I prove I am not an extremest.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I have never said any of this or done any of this..I actively try to inform people of the dangers of these drugs..people actively seek my help of which I graciously volunteer and represent them at review panels ..which is their legal right...do you have a problem with patients exercising their legal rights ?? or informing themselves ?

You did not post this?

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I am not saying some people don't feel profoundly depressed or enter into states of psychosis ..I am saying that so called medications are not the solution and in many ways do as much harm as good ..psychiatry is in the stone age and advances and funding are held back due to the billions of dollars involved in drugging people..these practices will seem as barbaric as lobotomy's in the not to distant future...a single dose of neuroleptics can cause life long movement disorders especially in woman and should be the last resort..not the first option

More proof that you only think in extremes, that does not say "do away with medications altogether" in any way.

Ya saying medications do not work and are no solution is not an extreme position and does not mean one that believes it would work to eliminate those drugs.

 

[eots]

You did not post this?

More proof that you only think in extremes, that does not say "do away with medications altogether" in any way.

Ya saying medications do not work and are no solution is not an extreme position and does not mean one that believes it would work to eliminate those drugs.

I clearly stated..a last resort...often do more harm than good..I never said they don't work ..you added that...sometimes dulling the Brian works just.. as sometimes lobotomy's worked or electroshock...but more often than not ..the person does not return to their past self or careers after entering psychosis and being treated with neuroleptic drugs..and therefore is ultimately not the solution ..any more than lobotomys where the solution...and ever word of it is true

 

[KittenKoder]

You did not post this?

More proof that you only think in extremes, that does not say "do away with medications altogether" in any way.

Ya saying medications do not work and are no solution is not an extreme position and does not mean one that believes it would work to eliminate those drugs.

You wanted proof you are an extremist in one post, yet here is the proof, he still didn't say that all medications should be done away with, and he is right in what he did say with:

"I am saying that so called medications are not the solution and in many ways do as much harm as good"

How do I know this? Simple, my own life. All my physical problems are because of mental meds, many of which were given when I was but a teenager, angsty and defiant as all teenagers were, but they diagnosed my normal behavior as being some mental disorder based on what my mother wanted. They made me take the meds (more my mother did but meh). So his assertion there is 100% correct, but it in no way says that they should do away with all meds, that was your projection of an extremist, black and white, binary style thinking.

 

[editec]

It seems obvious to me that often psychotropic drugs are often over proscribed.

Likewise it also seems obvious to me that psychotropic drugs can be very beneficial when dealing with mental conditions.

There's your middle ground.

Good medical practices are good, and bad medical practices are bad.

They both exist.

duh!

 

[RetiredGySgt]

It seems obvious to me that often psychotropic drugs are often over proscribed.

Likewise it also seems obvious to me that psychotropic drugs can be very beneficial when dealing with mental conditions.

There's your middle ground.

Good medical practices are good, and bad medical practices are bad.

They both exist.

duh!

They are not interested in that. EOTS wants to convince everyone meds never work and Kittenkoder is all about make false claims and then providing no evidence and demanding those she accused to prove they are not what she claimed they were.

There is no middle ground for either.

I have made clear my position over and over. Some people can be treated without medication and some people need meds. Some of the people that need meds also need someone to make them take them.

Eots attacks anyone that says meds work, yet he wants us to believe he does not oppose medication use. He states they are NEVER the solution but wants us to believe he does not mind when people take them.

The problem we have now is that this society is looking for easy fixes. Way to many kids are diagnosed with mental problems when they do not have them and are JUST being the crazy kids that we all know. However SOME kids need medical attention and are mentally ill. Some may need meds, the problem is there really are few medications that work for kids because their brain is constantly changing. If you read most anti depressants they STATE that they are not for the young at all. In fact they can and do cause the very problem they are proscribed for in young people.

My local facility went from treating mostly adults with a geriatric wing into mostly treating children in the last 12 years. All because the current generation of parents want easy fixes and do not want to deal with growing changing children.

The solution is not to claim kids do not need treatment or to deny medication works. The solution is to stop parents and practitioners from diagnosing growing children with no real medical condition with them as an easy fix rather then proper parenting. And it definitely is not to claim medication does not work in adults and insist all adults that have mental problems just need to tough it out.

For some people there is no other solution then medication.

 

[editec]

Yes, I am aware that some people on this board object to drug theapy for mental problems.

They either don't know what the fuck they're talking about or they're trolls.

 

[eots]

Yes, I am aware that some people on this board object to drug theapy for mental problems.

They either don't know what the fuck they're talking about or they're trolls.

what the fuck do you know...

 

[eots]

It seems obvious to me that often psychotropic drugs are often over proscribed.

Likewise it also seems obvious to me that psychotropic drugs can be very beneficial when dealing with mental conditions.

There's your middle ground.

Good medical practices are good, and bad medical practices are bad.

They both exist.

duh!

They are not interested in that. EOTS wants to convince everyone meds never work and Kittenkoder is all about make false claims and then providing no evidence and demanding those she accused to prove they are not what she claimed they were.

There is no middle ground for either.

I have made clear my position over and over. Some people can be treated without medication and some people need meds. Some of the people that need meds also need someone to make them take them.

Eots attacks anyone that says meds work, yet he wants us to believe he does not oppose medication use. He states they are NEVER the solution but wants us to believe he does not mind when people take them.

The problem we have now is that this society is looking for easy fixes. Way to many kids are diagnosed with mental problems when they do not have them and are JUST being the crazy kids that we all know. However SOME kids need medical attention and are mentally ill. Some may need meds, the problem is there really are few medications that work for kids because their brain is constantly changing. If you read most anti depressants they STATE that they are not for the young at all. In fact they can and do cause the very problem they are proscribed for in young people.

My local facility went from treating mostly adults with a geriatric wing into mostly treating children in the last 12 years. All because the current generation of parents want easy fixes and do not want to deal with growing changing children.

The solution is not to claim kids do not need treatment or to deny medication works. The solution is to stop parents and practitioners from diagnosing growing children with no real medical condition with them as an easy fix rather then proper parenting. And it definitely is not to claim medication does not work in adults and insist all adults that have mental problems just need to tough it out.

For some people there is no other solution then medication.

where did anyone ever say tough it out...and how much knowledge or awareness do you have in regards to alternative therapy's ...what alternative therapy's did you attempt before being medicated...honestly

 

[Sky Dancer]

If it were possible to be drug free and mentally healthy that would be ideal. Unfortunately, some are unable to benefit from psychotherapy without medication.

Eots is right about side effects. They have to be monitored. I'm convinced my mother's early death at age 63 was related to long term haldol use.

Eots is wrong if he is against psych medication for others.

We have choices, and some choose no medication, others finally find relief with medication.

 

[eots]

If it were possible to be drug free and mentally healthy that would be ideal. Unfortunately, some are unable to benefit from psychotherapy without medication.

Eots is right about side effects. They have to be monitored. I'm convinced my mother's early death at age 63 was related to long term haldol use.

Eots is wrong if he is against psych medication for others.

We have choices, and some choose no medication, others finally find relief with medication.

it is a little more complicated than that due to the billions of dollars involved and the corporate influence..there have been amazing results with schizophrenia and so called bi-polar disorder in non-drug therapy's but they are without question stifled by lobbyist and drug company's..what many people do not realise is that most people if not drugged will come out of psychosis..and if not drugged 60% historical will only ever have one psychotic episode...with drugs that number is almost zero that experience only one psych episode
in countrys where drug therapy is not available these statistic remain approximately the same today..but I have no interest in denying any adult any drug they desire be it to their benefit or not

 

[Diuretic]

If the causes of a mental illness (for a particular person I mean) are organic then surely using drug therapy is appropriate. Take depression, if it can be alleviated using SSRIs then shouldn't they be used? I don't mean in isolation, I would think they would be okay along with CBT or some other behavioural therapy. But I wouldn't have a problem with someone trying a behaviour therapy before using drug therapy.

Like many things there's no clear answer. One thing I would throw out though is how many "mental illness" cases are socially and not medically constructed? That might be a bit ambiguous. I'm referring to "normal". Let me give an example.

Who hears voice in their head? No, that wasn't a typo, I mean "voice".

It's normal isn't it?

So if you hear more than one voice in your head and you know that the voices are really just your mind operating on you is that an illness? Or is it only an illness when the voices compel some sort of dangerous or unwarranted behaviour?

 

[eots]

This article was cited in the British Medical Journal, Vol. 328/414, February, 2004:

Maintaining people with schizophrenia on neuroleptics (the accepted standard care) may actually be doing them a disservice. According to a 50 year review, long term treatment worsens long term outcomes, and up to 40% of people would do better without neuroleptics. Initiation of treatment only after a subsequent episode and helping patients who are stabilised on neuroleptics to gradually withdraw from them would increase recovery rates and reduce the proportion of patients who become chronically ill (Medical Hypotheses 2004;62:5-13).
Neuroleptics and Chronic Mental Illness

 

[eots]

12. Assen Jablensky, "Schizophrenia: manifestations, incidence and course in different cultures, A World Health Organization ten-country study," Psychological Medicine, suppl. 20 (1992), 1-95. [Note: at least the last page is missing]

The second WHO organization study of this type was called the Determinants of Outcome of Severe Mental Disorders. It involved 1379 patients from 10 countries, and was designed as a follow-up study to the International Pilot Study of Schizophrenia. The patients in this study were first-episode patients, and 86% had been ill fewer than 12 months. This study confirmed the findings of the first: two-year outcomes were much better for the patients in the poor countries. In broad terms, 37 percent of the patients in the poor countries (India, Nigeria and Colombia) had a single psychotic episode and then fully recovered; another 26.7% of the patients in the poor countries had two or more psychotic episodes but still were in "complete remission" at the end of the two years. In other words, 63.7% of the patients in the poor countries were doing fairly well at the end of two years. In contrast, only 36.9% of the patients in the U.S. and six other developed countries were doing fairly well at the end of two years. The researchers concluded that "being in a developed country was a strong predictor of not attaining a complete remission."

http://psychrights.org/research/Digest/Chronicity/who2.pdf

 

[editec]

Yes, I am aware that some people on this board object to drug theapy for mental problems.

They either don't know what the fuck they're talking about or they're trolls.

what the fuck do you know...

I know that when it comes to contibuting anything worth reading you're at the back of the pack, eots.

Still, I presume you're just doing the very best you can with the limited resources god gave you, Lad.

Now run along and play, sonny, the grownups are trying to have a conversation.

There's a good boy.

 

[eots]

Yes, I am aware that some people on this board object to drug theapy for mental problems.

They either don't know what the fuck they're talking about or they're trolls.

what the fuck do you know...

I know that when it comes to contibuting anything worth reading you're at the back of the pack, eots.

Still, I presume you're just doing the very best you can with the limited resources god gave you, Lad.

Now run along and play, sonny, the grownups are trying to have a conversation.

There's a good boy.

ya thats what I thought ..basicaly nothing but uninformed and unsubstaiated babble that offers.... nothing