Maybe God is...

[The Irish Ram]

Prophecy is proof. Man can't do it. The only one that can tell us the end from the beginning is someone capable of seeing the end from the beginning. So let's wave that Bible around. For instance, who would have believed that in the 21 Century, Christians would be beheaded for their beliefs? That Israel would be born in a day. That it would be surrounded by enemies, that Europe would unite.....
Wave the Bible around and see if there really was darkness on the earth for 3 hours during Christ's crucifixion, then read what the philosophers of the day attributed it to, and verify.
So, yeah you would be able to recognize God from an alien. No alien can forgive like God can.

 

[amrchaos]

I don't understand what doesn't make sense. We are made in the image of our Father. He is spirit, so are we. We are spirit wrapped in clay. The clay deteriorates. The spirit does not.
You never cease to exist. It is not after life, it is a continuation of your life. Nothing scary about that. And not believing that doesn't alter it.
This "life" is a vapor, and less than one second of your eternity. It is our basic training camp. It determines your status as you move forward.

You need to know Christian theology in order for the statement to make sense. Without some background in Christian theology--when the statement "stands alone"--It is self-contradictory.

Self-contradictory statements tend to make the person stating them seem a little unbalanced. If that is the result of a religion, people can become scared of it and its followers.

You are taking knowledge of your religion for granted. That is not the case for whomever you talk to.

Also, you know that the death of the physical body is what we normally call death. Christianity is not so dominate in your thinking that death, to you, just refers to the spirit. The fact you even talk about the spirit continuing means that you know what death generally means and what death in Christianity means.

Think about it. Are you really doing the "Holy Word" a favor when you present a part of the message that way?

 

[Avatar4321]

Or maybe God is exactly who He says He is. Why not ask Him?

 

[The Irish Ram]

I can use Christian theology and secular knowledge to prove the statement. It doesn't stand alone in either category. A lack of understanding causes the difference between a Christian's understanding of death and a non Christians understanding. The Bible clearly chronicles our make up and our itinerary, pre and post clay, but no one makes it clearer than Christ:

John 11:25
Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live,

And that is doing humanity a favor..........
I just relay the message.

And here is your itinerary:

John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

 

[amrchaos]

Prophecy is proof. Man can't do it. The only one that can tell us the end from the beginning is someone capable of seeing the end from the beginning. So let's wave that Bible around. For instance, who would have believed that in the 21 Century, Christians would be beheaded for their beliefs? That Israel would be born in a day. That it would be surrounded by enemies, that Europe would unite.....
Wave the Bible around and see if there really was darkness on the earth for 3 hours during Christ's crucifixion, then read what the philosophers of the day attributed it to, and verify.
So, yeah you would be able to recognize God from an alien. No alien can forgive like God can.

I thought Prophecy was predictions of the future that has yet to be full-filled.

And there are mainly three types of prophecies in the Bible.

The 1st type are prophecies that have been claimed to be fulfilled. Problem, it is a claim that it was actually a prophecy before being fulfilled.


The second are the ones that have yet to be fulfilled. Problem--we do not know if it will be fulfilled, and therefore remains a claim.

The third type, a prophecy that has been "fulfilled" and "witness". For instance, the claim that Israel was reformed in a day.

Problem--that was not the case of what actually happened. European Jews recolonized the area and basically had a national government running before the UN vote of recgonition. The setting up of that government actually took years.

Also, I thought the Messiah or God was the one to re-establish Israel "in a day". Unless we are now calling all Jews "God" and years "a day", I don't think that was the case either. Remember, you have to follow the prophecy word for word. Also, there was a lot more than the re-establishment of Israel.

Oh, and by the way. The Prophecy in the OT about the re-establishment of Israel really refers to after the destruction by the Babylonians. Was that really a fulfilled prophecy, or something stated after the fact? See type 1


What does seem true is that If the Jewish people ever lose Israel, they will eventually re-establish it.




Now Christians getting beheaded. Hmmm--was there ever a span of 100 years in which Christians did not get beheaded?

 

[amrchaos]

I can use Christian theology and secular knowledge to prove the statement. It doesn't stand alone in either category. A lack of understanding causes the difference between a Christian's understanding of death and a non Christians understanding. The Bible clearly chronicles our make up and our itinerary, pre and post clay, but no one makes it clearer than Christ:

John 11:25
Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live,

And that is doing humanity a favor..........
I just relay the message.

And here is your itinerary:

John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

Hold it--are you saying that Christian theology is the sole source of defining Death?

Where is the "secular" definition?

Is it the one in John 11:25, because that is talking about physical death(through death of the physical body) and the "spiritual life through the belief in Jesus" as defined by Christianity.

The fact that Jesus suppose to have made the distinction means that Jesus knows what death is meant normally.


John 5:24 also makes reference to Christian belief that believers will continue to live(as a spirit) after they physically die. There is, again, an implied distinction between physical death and spiritual life.

I think what you are missing in your Biblical proof is the argument that there is no difference between the life of the body and the life of the spirit. The thing is, the NT has to make that distinction in order to talk about the afterlife.

Quoting your Bible actually proves my case--you need the NT to gain what is meant by your statement of living after dying.

If it stands alone, without information from the NT, it is a self contradictory. I don't know why you don't understand that or how showing me that Jesus makes the same distinction is proof?.

 

[The Irish Ram]

I am pretty sure you know the secular def. of death. It's when the doctor, says, "The heart has stopped pumping, there is no brain activity, time to pull the plug." The Bible takes it to the next level as only the Bible can.
Prophecy is history before it happens, like, "you will be taken captive for 70 years", "They will pierce His hands and feet." and so on. 25% of the Bible is prophesied.

As for Israel, it is exactly what happened. Not only that it happened, it happened on the day it was prophesied to happen.
The Jews went to sleep on May 14th, as Jews. They woke up on the 15th, a Nation.
Why Israel became a nation when it did to the very day. Bible Prophecy Numbers 1260 x 2 years.

 

[The Irish Ram]

You do not need the New Testament to explain what happens upon death. Even the OT Temple priests were divided into 2 categories, those who believed in resurrection, and those who didn't.

Here is Paul defining the 2 old testament beliefs:

Acts 23:6

6 Now when Paul perceived that one part were Sadducees and the other Pharisees, he cried out in the council, “Brothers, I am a Pharisee, a son of Pharisees. It is with respect to the hope and the resurrection of the dead that I am on trial.”

Paul was in agreement with the Pharisees, and not the Sudducees. Pharisees believed in life after death. And they believed it long before Christ proved it.

 

[THE LIGHT]

Take note that even amongst God's Chosen People, few have lived up Avraham, Yitzchak, Yaakov, Moshe, David, Solomon.
In many ways, Adam and Eve's failure (by dint of Free Will) signaled a significant degree of failure in God's intent.
The Mishnah and Talmud are the result of the input of very few individuals.

I have to work now.
Do not hesitate to comment or ask questions.

Jesus Christ was the lamb slain from the foundation of the earth, the stars that were set in the heavens declare the plan of God, and the names of Adam through Noah spell out the plan of salvation. Moreover, God is eternal therefore nothing can take him by surprise. The finished work of the cross was by no means a knee jerk reaction to Adam's fall.

 

[THE LIGHT]

Premise: God exists. But God isn't what we think of it as being but rather...Begin speculation.

- God isn't what our religions describe it being. It's something bigger, grander, vaster, and more mind-numbingly complicated. A being which can create worlds, and the whole of the universe isn't gonna pluck a hair over what an individual does. I'd think such a being will view life as a whole rather than as individuals like with sinners/not sinners. When we examine simple life like spores and fungus, we don't say 'that's a 'good spore' or that's a evil fungus. It's all just spores or fungus. So it likely would be with a God. Any 'god' who did feel certain ways about life differentiating between good or bad life would not then be anyone worth worshipping because it's biased and petty. You really think "God" cares more about religion x, y, or z than the rest of life?

- Maybe while God exists, it isn't sentient at all like we are. Maybe what we've taken to calling God is simply a force of nature naturally extant in this universe? Some kind of manifestation of life existing in the universe which results from the sum of all life everywhere. A kind of group-think manifestation. Quantum mechanics states we alter the physical reality of a particle simply by observing it. So what happens when many observe the same thing? What happens when an entire universe of living things observes the night sky? Do we all create stars and planets because we expect to see stars and planets up there?

What you "think" about God does not change who he is. God is who he is regardless of what we think he is.

No, God does not care about religion x, y, or z nor does he care about religion a, b or c which you are trying to create. God cares about having a personal relationship with you, Delta, through his Son, Yashua.

 

[petro]

God was a middle school student who created the universe as a science fair project. It took third place and currently exists in a small box in her parents' attic.

On this. I see no reason to separate science and religion. Based on the physical rules and nature of the Universe it would stand to reason that any God or higher intelligence(for those who can't handle the term God) would be a scientist. Many in the scientific community still observe religious views and see a design element to what they observe in nature. I have yet to hear that 100% of those in the sciences automatically get registered with the Atheists.
No human as of yet can explain true creation. All science or religion does is raise more questions for me than answers. Even the Big Bang theory, yes still a theory, raises the question of where did the singularity come from? What was before it or outside of it? The same questions could be said of God also. Those who think they have all the answers on either side of the fence are delusional. Humankind may never know the true answer and it is pure folly to believe that you will ever change a persons world view or faith based upon your "all knowing" view of the Universe whether wrapped in science or religion.

 

[THE LIGHT]

God cares about you and I so much that he sent his Son to die on a cross of wood, yet made the very hill on which it stood. Because of Yashua's eternal nature it could be said that it was physically impossible for those nails to hold his hands to that cross. What held him to that cross was the love he had for you and I. His desire is to have you back as a son. He is waiting with open arms and will be running to meet you. Will you return?

 

[THE LIGHT]

On this. I see no reason to separate science and religion. Based on the physical rules and nature of the Universe it would stand to reason that any God or higher intelligence(for those who can't handle the term God) would be a scientist. Many in the scientific community still observe religious views and see a design element to what they observe in nature. I have yet to hear that 100% of those in the sciences automatically get registered with the Atheists.
No human as of yet can explain true creation. All science or religion does is raise more questions for me than answers. Even the Big Bang theory, yes still a theory, raises the question of where did the singularity come from? What was before it or outside of it? The same questions could be said of God also. Those who think they have all the answers on either side of the fence are delusional. Humankind may never know the true answer and it is pure folly to believe that you will ever change a persons world view or faith based upon your "all knowing" view of the Universe whether wrapped in science or religion.

Truth exists and is therefore worth pursuing. Some people don't like truth because it shatters their presuppositions. The mere fact that you are on this message board posting proves that you feel there is a truth worth fighting for.

 

[MaxGrit]

"God" is the omnipotent (all powerful) all omniscient (all knowing) and omnibenevolent (all loving) trinity of "the father the son and the holy spirit". You can find God revealed in His Holy word.

Omnibenevolence (from Latin omni- meaning "all", and benevolent, meaning "good") is defined as "unlimited or infinite benevolence".

However, the phrases "perfect goodness" or "moral perfection" are often preferred because of the difficulties in defining what exactly constitutes 'infinite benevolence'.

 

[PratchettFan]

God was a middle school student who created the universe as a science fair project. It took third place and currently exists in a small box in her parents' attic.

On this. I see no reason to separate science and religion. Based on the physical rules and nature of the Universe it would stand to reason that any God or higher intelligence(for those who can't handle the term God) would be a scientist. Many in the scientific community still observe religious views and see a design element to what they observe in nature. I have yet to hear that 100% of those in the sciences automatically get registered with the Atheists.
No human as of yet can explain true creation. All science or religion does is raise more questions for me than answers. Even the Big Bang theory, yes still a theory, raises the question of where did the singularity come from? What was before it or outside of it? The same questions could be said of God also. Those who think they have all the answers on either side of the fence are delusional. Humankind may never know the true answer and it is pure folly to believe that you will ever change a persons world view or faith based upon your "all knowing" view of the Universe whether wrapped in science or religion.

I agree. And as long as we are in the dark we may as well believe whatever pleases us. It is folly to worry about what others believe.