Marxist, Communism, Socialism and Capitalism

[dblack]

Do you know why people still talk about Marxism? As a cautionary tale of where unregulated predatory capitalism leads it rings true. Socialist movements exist in every former colonial hellhole that found the new local oligarchy to be just as harsh.

People still talk about Marxism because it has a very appealing sales pitch. It promises to "empower" people who currently don't have much power in society.

Promises, promises.

 

[occupied]

People still talk about Marxism because it has a very appealing sales pitch. It promises to "empower" people who currently don't have much power in society.

Promises, promises.

Seriously. Learn something about Marxism as the economic philosophy it is. Trying to make it into an active agenda or policy of some kind is to totally miss the point. Marx was sure that capitalists would push the industrial world to collapse then all the socialist stuff would happen out of necessity. Still something that rings true when the economy collapses and no one but the government has the wherewithal to do anything about it.

 

[dblack]

Seriously. Learn something about Marxism as the economic philosophy it is.

I've learned as much about marxism as I can stomach.

Trying to make it into an active agenda or policy of some kind is to totally miss the point.

There seem to be lots of people, many who call themselves marxists, who are also missing the point.

Marx was sure that capitalists would push the industrial world to collapse then all the socialist stuff would happen out of necessity. Still something that rings true when the economy collapses and no one but the government has the wherewithal to do anything about it.

In my view, government should have no power to control the economy. Controlling the economy is controlling people, dictating their decisions regarding trade and employment. Government should keep the peace. We can resolve social problems without resorting to force.

 

[Red Front]

Seriously. Learn something about Marxism as the economic philosophy it is. Trying to make it into an active agenda or policy of some kind is to totally miss the point. Marx was sure that capitalists would push the industrial world to collapse then all the socialist stuff would happen out of necessity. Still something that rings true when the economy collapses and no one but the government has the wherewithal to do anything about it.

It's public funds that save capitalism every 7 to 12 years, like clockwork. Boom and bust business cycles are endemic to capitalism, as well as cronyism. Those who assert that the supposed "invisible hand" of the "free market" will self-regulate the economy, show complete disregard for the devastating effects of market adjustments and disruptions, that could potentially last years and if not resolved by the government would result in economic depressions, tens of millions of people unemployed and social unrest that could escalate to a civil war.

 

[occupied]

I've learned as much about marxism as I can stomach.

There seem to be lots of people, many who call themselves marxists, who are also missing the point.

In my view, government should have no power to control the economy. Controlling the economy is controlling people, dictating their decisions regarding trade and employment. Government should keep the peace. We can resolve social problems without resorting to force.

The government must control the economy for the sake of social stability and the assurance that all this will still be here in the future.

 

[dblack]

The government must control the economy for the sake of social stability and the assurance that all this will still be here in the future.

Yeah. They used to say the same thing about religion. Fortunately, we got over that.

 

[Red Front]

I've learned as much about marxism as I can stomach.

There seem to be lots of people, many who call themselves marxists, who are also missing the point.

In my view, government should have no power to control the economy. Controlling the economy is controlling people, dictating their decisions regarding trade and employment. Government should keep the peace. We can resolve social problems without resorting to force.

No child labor laws, no regulations in chemical plants or factories where people risk their health and lives in close proximity to hazardous materials and machinery, no regulations for restaurants, to maintain a certain standard of cleanliness in their kitchens, no laws against false advertisement, no labor rights, no construction permits, codes or building safety standards, fire-safety codes..etc. Your laissez-faire policies will create a nightmare dystopia.

The government plays a crucial role in various aspects of the economy. Here are some of the ways the government supports the economy, allowing it to function:

1. Monetary System: The government, specifically the central bank, controls the monetary system. This includes printing money, controlling inflation, setting interest rates, and monitoring the financial health of the country.
2. Establishing Laws and Regulations: The government establishes and enforces laws and regulations that govern economic transactions. These include laws related to property rights, contracts, consumer protections, competition, labor rights, and more.
3. Infrastructure Development: The government invests in and maintains the infrastructure that allows for economic activity, such as roads, bridges, airports, seaports, public transit, electric grids, water and sewer systems, and more.
4. Education: By funding public education, the government ensures a trained and educated workforce, which is key for economic development and competitiveness.
5. Research and Development: Governments often fund research and development efforts that can lead to innovation and technological advancements, which are key drivers of economic growth.
6. Providing Public Services: The government provides essential public services that aren't typically provided by the private sector, including law enforcement, fire protection, waste management, public health services, and more.
7. Trade Policy: The government sets trade policy, negotiating trade agreements with other countries, setting tariffs, and enforcing trade laws and regulations.
8. Maintaining Economic Stability: Through fiscal policy (taxation and government spending) and monetary policy, the government works to maintain economic stability, reducing the severity of economic downturns and managing inflation.
9. Regulating Financial Markets: The government oversees and regulates financial markets, working to prevent fraudulent practices and maintain consumer confidence.
10. Social Security: The government provides safety nets such as social security, unemployment insurance, and food assistance programs, which can help people maintain their spending during economic downturns, reducing the severity and length of recessions.
11. Healthcare: In many countries, the government plays a role in providing or regulating healthcare, which contributes to the overall health and productivity of the population.

Without these roles played by the government, the economy would collapse.

In the context of historical development, the government has often played a key role in fostering economic growth. For example, in the United States, government investments in infrastructure, education, research and development, and the military have all helped to drive economic development and industrialization. And, government-created financial institutions and policies were crucial in the creation and maintenance of the country's monetary system.

 

[occupied]

Yeah. They used to say the same thing about religion. Fortunately, we got over that.

Do you have a solution to the problem of greed? The only thing that can keep ruthless exploitation at bay is the power of the government.

 

[Red Front]

Yeah. They used to say the same thing about religion. Fortunately, we got over that.

The economy isn't a religion.

 

[psikeyhackr]

Related:

Amusing at least. Did capitalism invent technology or did technology invent capitalism?

Was John D. Rockefeller a capitalist? What technology did he invent compared to Henry Ford and Thomas Edison.

Do our biases about Capitalism confuse our analysis of economic power games?

 

[psikeyhackr]

Do you have a solution to the problem of greed? The only thing that can keep ruthless exploitation at bay is the power of the government.

Is the problem greed or insane greed? Is there a significant difference.

Does sufficient wealth inspire a lust for Power in some people?

 

[psikeyhackr]

The economy isn't a religion.

But people develop religious attitudes about it. Even hiding information that might disturb the minds of the faithful.

Don't tell the consumers about the depreciation of durable consumer goods. They might want to know accounting.

 

[occupied]

Is the problem greed or insane greed? Is there a significant difference.

Does sufficient wealth inspire a lust for Power in some people?

It is apparent. What else is there after you have more than you can ever spend?

 

[dblack]

The economy isn't a religion.

No, but, like religion, it involves personal value decisions that government has no business dictating. And, like religion, control of the economy vastly expands the power of the state.

 

[Red Front]

No, but, like religion, it involves personal value decisions that government has no business dictating. And, like religion, control of the economy vastly expands the power of the state.

What do you mean by "personal value decisions"? If there's a religion that allows men to marry nine-year-old girls, should the government stop that? On what grounds do you assert that the government can't interfere with the "personal value decisions" of religious fanatics, who justify pedophilia or some other heinous act? The government has the right to govern, and to enforce laws that regulate commerce.

You have no problem with privately owned business enterprises that are run like little totalitarian regimes, dictating whatever they want upon their employees. At least our government holds elections. When was the last time anyone voted in an election at their workplace? Never.

 

[dblack]

What do you mean by "personal value decisions"? If there's a religion that allows men to marry nine-year-old girls, should the government stop that? On what grounds do you assert that the government can't interfere with the "personal value decisions" of religious fanatics, who justify pedophilia or some other heinous act? The government has the right to govern, and to enforce laws that regulate commerce

Jesus fuck. Another groomer witchhunt? You sickos are everywhere. We're talking about free trade, not pedophilia.

You have no problem with privately owned business enterprises that are run like little totalitarian regimes, dictating whatever they want upon their employees.

Nope. Because they lack the key power of government. They can't force anything on an employee that the employee doesn't agree to. The employee can always walk away.

At least our government holds elections. When was the last time anyone voted in an election at their workplace? Never.

Perhaps you've noticed, but our elections are a complete shit show lately. There's just no reason to force everyone conform to the whim of the majority. If some people want to work for a corporation you don't like, that should be their right. Just as it should be your right to tell that corporation to get lost.

If government is your employer, the only employer, you don't have that right. You might get to vote, but you're stuck with whatever the majority decides.

 

[Red Front]

Jesus fuck. Another groomer witchhunt? You sickos are everywhere. We're talking about free trade, not pedophilia.

Nope. Because they lack the key power of government. They can't force anything on an employee that the employee doesn't agree to. The employee can always walk away.

Perhaps you've noticed, but our elections are a complete shit show lately. There's just no reason to force everyone conform to the whim of the majority. If some people want to work for a corporation you don't like, that should be their right. Just as it should be your right to tell that corporation to get lost.

If government is your employer, the only employer, you don't have that right. You might get to vote, but you're stuck with whatever the majority decides.

Jesus fuck. Another groomer witchhunt? You sickos are everywhere. We're talking about free trade, not pedophilia.

You got triggered huh? You're arguing that the government doesn't have the right to dictate over people's "personal values", yet there are some values that are detestable, if not criminal, hence the government can and should "dictate" and interfere, in certain cases. There are religions, that approve of young girls being married off to men. There's the Fundamentalist Mormon polygamy cult in Arizona and there are Muslims who marry their young, underaged daughters off to men, hence who cares what their "personal values" are when those values are warped and immoral. Right? Do you agree? The government should prohibit child abuse, correct?

Nope. Because they lack the key power of government. They can't force anything on an employee that the employee doesn't agree to. The employee can always walk away.

No, not true. The employee can't just walk away, because they need to pay their bills and their healthcare insurance is tied to their employer. So it's not as easy as simply "walking away". More, there's no democracy in the workplace, yet you as a supposed "champion" of liberty, are completely indifferent to it. Why? Because you're not really a lover of freedom, you're just pretending to be.

Perhaps you've noticed, but our elections are a complete shit show lately. There's just no reason to force everyone conform to the whim of the majority.

At least our government holds elections. As far as democracy being the "whim of the majority", I prefer that to the whim of the minority. You defend the hubris and greed of a small group of wealthy elites at the expense of the public good. Provided the minority's human rights are protected by law, the majority vote should always determine government policy. If you're holding a minority opinion then get to work, providing good arguments as to why people should adopt your point of view. Present your case and let the marketplace of ideas determine which political stance holds the highest value and favor. It's that simple.

 

[Ringo]

I don't mind being lost. Sometimes I prefer it.

I think they did it too:

 

[dblack]

You got triggered huh?

You bet I am. You chickenshit motherfuckers throwing this shit around can just fuck right off and. Get busy!

 

[Red Front]

You bet I am. You chickenshit motherfuckers throwing this shit around can just fuck right off and. Get busy!