Zone1 Mandelbrot Sets -- Proof of God?

[Libby von H]

why is that more important what allegedly jesus claimed about himself - which was for them never the issue - rather what the prevailing religion said about itself, hereditary idolatry and the false commandments of the liar moses among them which is the true events of the 1st century, jesus's refutation of judaism.

and those others that gave their lives for the paradisian goal of liberation theology, self determination as the true path to judgement and admission by a free sprite to the everlasting.

Nothing is proof of anyting when you deal with beings who are not just intellect but also WILL.

Belief​

“Man can be compelled to do a good many things. There are a good many other things he can do in a halfhearted fashion, as it were, against his will. But belief can never be halfhearted. One can believe only if one wishes to. Perhap the credibility of a given person will be revealed to me so persuasively that I cannot help but think: It is wrong not to believe him; I “must” believe him. But this last step can be taken only in complete freedom, and that means that it can also not be taken. There may be plenty of compelling arguments for a man’s cedibility; but no argument can force us to believe him.
The unanimity of statements on this point is astonishing; and the agreement ranges all the way from Augustine and Thomas to Kierkegaard, Newman and Andre Gide. Augustine’s phrase from the Commentary on John is famous; “Nemo credit nisi volens”: No one believes except of his own free will.

 

[BackAgain]

no comment

Better that way.

 

[BackAgain]

The question was why you say such a stupid nonsense although you know this is wrong. It is very clear what I said: The Romans crucified the Jew Jesus. The washing obsession of Pontius Pilate changes nothing in this fact. Also the pardon of Barabbas does not change this fact. Sure is it an interesting question why Pontius did do this while he was not convinced it is the right thing to do.

A short time ago for example I listened to a story of a German politician who once had in the Soviet state GDR a leading job in their ministry of cultural affairs. He tried to change something in the wrong way they made politics. His colleague - a woman - informed the Stasi and so he lost immediatelly his job. When he saw her a last time he asked her: "Why did you do so? I always thought we are friends and have the same understanding of humanity." She answered: "You are right. But if I had not informed the Stasi then I had not been a good Commie."

You’re silly.

 

[zaangalewa]

Both men had been involved in duels in the past. Hamilton had been involved in more than a dozen affairs of honor[5] prior to his fatal encounter with Burr ...

Do you like to say Alexander Hamiliton murdered other men in duels? I read nothing about such an absurde behavior from him. He seemed to be an intelligent men.

 

[zaangalewa]

You’re silly

Aha. And ding agreed with you. ... hmm ... Perhaps the USA is indeed a much more strange country than I ever thought ...

 

[zaangalewa]

Alexander Hamilton's Religion: A Temperate Example For Today's Fractured World

Which Hamilton -- the pious Christian, the deist, the skeptic, the religious free-marketeer -- would pass judgment on the secular/religious debates of contemporary America?

www.huffpost.com

Washington's military aide-de-camp and later his cabinet consigliere, Hamilton fell comfortably into an appropriate patrician deism, an easy fit with his long standing skepticism toward institutionalized religion. In shaping a fledgling new nation, it was religious fanaticism that Hamilton found most threatening:

"The world has been scourged with many fanatical sects in religion who, inflamed by sincere but mistaken zeal, have perpetuated under the idea of serving God the most atrocious crimes" (Hamilton, unpublished report on "The Cause of France" see Chernow, p.​

In place of fanaticism and state-sanctioned religion, Hamilton saw economic gain in a fair and open religious free-market. Manufacturers could be lured to America not only because of cheaper labor, lower taxes and better access to raw materials, but also by America's personal liberties, including not just religious tolerance but "a perfect equality of religious privileges" (from Report on the Subject of Manufacturers Dec. 5, 1791).

?

 

[zaangalewa]

...

Hamilton was not Catholic

?

 

[BackAgain]

Aha. And ding agreed with you. ... hmm ... Perhaps the USA is indeed a much more strange country than I ever thought ...

Nah. You’re just more strange than you’re capable of comprehending.

 

[zaangalewa]

Nah. You’re just more strange than you’re capable of comprehending.

The problem is that you speak out a lot of bullshit. And for me it's totally unimportant what i say to this bullshit. Even words like "God" or "USA" seem only to be empty phrases for US-Americans as all other words too. Nothing seems to be important when US-Americans use words. The only important thing seems to be the own opinion - independent from any reality and/or spirituality. You and your whole nation is lost in egocentrism, isn't it?

 

[zaangalewa]

 

[BreezeWood]

The unanimity of statements on this point is astonishing;

their notoriety as well -

a bit surreptitious ...

those you mention -

Augustine and Thomas to Kierkegaard, Newman and Andre Gide. Augustine’s phrase from the Commentary on John is famous; “Nemo credit nisi volens”: No one believes except of his own free will.

their own free will ...

libby, have you found those tablets yet - the ones the liar moses claimed were etched in the heavens their commandments - and their story of the serpent ... those too, weren't they believers as you seem to be -

kid yourself not in every way possible jesus is the refutation of judaism. for true believers.

than your friends who refer the day as - good friday - the joke really is on them.

 

[LibertyKid]

was jesus their leader or merely one of a spontaneous and doomed movement

I think C.S. Lewis was somewhat right when he said that Jesus is either a liar, a lunatic, or Lord. What history does know is that Jesus was a real man. Many of his followers and early church believed in Jesus, or the apostles teachings, so much so, they were willing to be martyred. Look at Paul, I believe a member of the Sanhedrin, a Roman citizen. Paul had no logical reason to believe a liar or a lunatic? Why give up so much? Why endure so much? For a fraud? And that can be said for the many many thousands of other Christians.

 

[BreezeWood]

I think C.S. Lewis was somewhat right when he said that Jesus is either a liar, a lunatic, or Lord.

kid yourself not in every way possible jesus is the refutation of judaism. for true believers.

lewis obviously is a christian - the middle confluence seems to escape him.

is it possible jesus was a deist (not specific monotheistic) w/ heavenly premonitions as what is good vs evil than the christian religion of - servitude and denial ... their beliefs and those that gave their lives in the 1st century - are not who wrote the 4th century christian bible those were - roman = christian.

the lunatics {sic} are not jesus rather those in the 4th century that wrote the christian bible and those who believe the lies of moses and abraham.

* seems someone is a liar between lewis and paradisians - the religion of antiquity, a&e - noah - final judgement vs the three desert religions.

 

[Grumblenuts]

Women And Religion: Sexism In The Christian Tradition by Barbara G. Walker (Jan/Feb 1998) - Freedom From Religion Foundation

This speech was delivered on December 6, 1997, at the 20th annual convention of the Freedom From Religion Foundation in Tampa, Florida.Sometimes, when...

ffrf.org

for the vast majority of human history on this planet, the only recognized deity was the Mother Goddess.

Is it "the Mother Goddess" you vaguely refer to by

the religion of antiquity

?

 

[LibertyKid]

lewis obviously is a christian - the middle confluence seems to escape him.

is it possible jesus was a deist (not specific monotheistic) w/ heavenly premonitions as what is good vs evil than the christian religion of - servitude and denial

Maybe? It's plausible. I'm not going to box a god into a man made book.

... their beliefs and those that gave their lives in the 1st century - are not who wrote the 4th century christian bible those were - roman = christian.

Agreed

* seems someone is a liar between lewis and paradisians - the religion of antiquity, a&e - noah - final judgement vs the three desert religions.

Is it fair to call Lewis a liar? Maybe not. He was a former Atheist who converted and provides valuable philosophical view points on Christianity. But by no means do I state that Lewis is 100% correct. Only that he provides good discourse.

Between the 1st and 3rd Centuries, true Christianity was lost IMO. Christianity was then wrapped up in a box (the Bible), by the RCC, and then used as a way to control the masses for centuries. Not very Jesus if you ask me.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

​

Alexander Hamilton wrote: “In place of fanaticism and state-sanctioned religion, Hamilton saw economic gain in a fair and open religious free-market. Manufacturers could be lured to America not only because of cheaper labor, lower taxes and better access to raw materials, but also by America's personal liberties, including not just religious tolerance but "a perfect equality of religious privileges" (from Report on the Subject of Manufacturers” Dec. 5, 1791).​

FYI to Grumblenuts America is a nation founded upon European settlers settling by seizure of nearly absolutely free land that was highly suited to the business of agriculture and family farming and ranching like The Ponderosa and eventually to the extraction of minerals from under the ground.

As a matter of living with a bothersome conscience for the taking of land from the people who held the rights to it for tens of thousands of years, it was best assuaged in church teaching that Jesus Christ the Son of God wants us to have it all.

Alexander Hamilton tried a death bed conversion to Christianity but we will never know if he was successful.

The Legacy of America's First Veterans - The American Revolution Institute

This lesson on Revolutionary War veterans teaches middle and high school students about the fate of the thousands of Americans who fought for independence.

www.americanrevolutioninstitute.org

Here is an interesting tidbit about Hamilton’s decision to screw the revolutionary war veterans out of being paid for their service that defeated the British Army.

https://moar-media-production.s3.amazonaws.com/e59123b7-49b7-4ca2-886f-4c00761e06d2/Document_100520_Thematic_Overview_Leadership_A_Ham.pdf

WHO SHOULD GET PAID?

Despite years serving in the army, Hamilton later issued financial plans as Secretary of the Treasury that put great pressure on his fellow veterans.

Strapped for cash during the War, the states and Continental Congress issued bonds and pay slips (government IOUs) to civilians and soldiers who supported the war effort. In the years following the war, these IOUs lost value in the deflated economy. Many poor veterans had a difficult choice to make: wait for their pay slips to reach full value, which could take years, or sell them for cash at a reduced value. Many veterans sold their pay slips to buy food and clothing. Merchants purchased the IOUs from veterans, at reduced prices, under their belief that they would eventually redeem them at full value.
As Secretary of the Treasury, Hamilton felt it was important for the newly established Federal Government to pay its debts. The question was, who would the government pay? The veterans who were issued the payslips? Or the merchants who purchased them from the veterans?

Although he himself was a veteran and had commanded some of these men who now found themselves facing financial hardship, Hamilton argued that the government should pay the bearer (holder) of the IOU. Although some, including James Madison, felt the government should honor its veterans by issuing the pay promised to them, Hamilton felt this sort of treatment would undermine the faith of businesses and wealthier Americans in their new government. Hamilton wanted to reward those who had taken a risk and invested in the financial success of the United States.

THEMATIC OVERVIEW
www.AmRevMuseum.org © Museum of the American Revolution

 

[Grumblenuts]

I've had many of the same experiences as this fine lady:

I plan to soon listen to her talk about "indefinite causal structures" which I bet ties right into this topic.

The other thing that happened was that the more I saw of the foundations of physics, the more I became convinced that most of the research there wasn't based on sound scientific principles.

 

[Grumblenuts]

Eh, appears I would have lost that bet. Turns out she's still just another spacetime cadet after all. Still interesting listening. I'll give her another ten years or so to really wake up.

 

[BreezeWood]

Is it "the Mother Goddess" you vaguely refer to by

?

other than your standard fair, whats your point ... grumbles.

"The independence of women and the equalization of their rights have come only little by little; every step has been gained in defiance of the Church and the teachings of the Scriptures, and in no way through their aid."

those awful books, the three desert - religions - are the sum total of the heavenly garden as raped by mankind.

the paradisians, jesus and those others included are no where found in those - religions and as prevailing as the mythological goddess claimed by grumblenuts.

 

[Grumblenuts]

other than your standard fair, whats your point ... grumbles.

To get a simple, straightforward response to my question:

Is it "the Mother Goddess" you vaguely refer to by

"the religion of antiquity"?
Yes? No?.. still waiting.. Guess not, but still don't know?

Provided background:

for the vast majority of human history on this planet, the only recognized deity was the Mother Goddess.

the paradisians, jesus and those others included are no where found in those - religions and as prevailing as the mythological goddess claimed by grumblenuts.

Sorry, I simply can't parse that with confidence.

Again, it was Barbara G. Walker (not me) who claimed "the Mother Goddess" was "the only recognized deity" for "the vast majority of human history."

Do you believe her? Yes? No?
Who are "the paradisians"?