Man tries to hire killer - to kill unborn baby

[nt250]

Roomy likes to show up drunk on weekends---he'll like you !

I love Roomy. Roomy is why I came here. He's an asshole, but he's my kind of asshole.

I thought you wanted to discuss this subject seriously. Instead you keep making personal remarks, or what you think are personal remarks, about me.

BTW, you failed my little test. The story that started this thread was about a boy who tried to hire someone to kill his pregnant girlfiend, or to kill the unborn baby. She's not dead.

 

[dilloduck]

I thought you wanted to discuss this subject seriously. .

Not with sociopaths !

 

[nt250]

Not with sociopaths !

Forgive me. Discuss it with all the conservatives who believe in limited government except when it comes abortion.

If you conservatives really want to do some good in this world, would you please see what you can do about regulating the penis enlargement industry. I keep getting these emails all the time telling me how I can make my penis bigger and it's just not working. They're oughta be a law.

 

[Nienna]

How many kids do you have? Spanking a kid in the middle of a tantrum is not exactly a good idea.

I have four kids. And spanking in the middle of a tantrum is usually a VERY good idea. It's very reassuring to the child.

 

[dmp]

How many kids do you have? Spanking a kid in the middle of a tantrum is not exactly a good idea.

Gats - who gave you such bad advice? Beating kids is the one SURE way they learn respect, and love, and discipline.

 

[nt250]

Gats - who gave you such bad advice? Beating kids is the one SURE way they learn respect, and love, and discipline.

Oh, right, I forgot.

I spanked my kid once. It worked great. She was so shocked it stopped her in her tracks. It wasn't during a tantrum, though. She was about three and she mouthed off at me. I forget exactly what she said, but I think she told me to "shut up" (I have no idea where she heard THAT from).

The second time I spanked her she started walking away and then turned around and said really sarcasticlly "that didn't hurt". I never spanked her again because I knew if I did I would have killed the little shit.

 

[jillian]

Oh, right, I forgot.

I spanked my kid once. It worked great. She was so shocked it stopped her in her tracks. It wasn't during a tantrum, though. She was about three and she mouthed off at me. I forget exactly what she said, but I think she told me to "shut up" (I have no idea where she heard THAT from).

The second time I spanked her she started walking away and then turned around and said really sarcasticlly "that didn't hurt". I never spanked her again because I knew if I did I would have killed the little shit.

I don't hit my son often, but when I do I hit him on the thigh because when I hit him on the butt he looks at me, laughs and says "that tickles, mom". Little freakazoid. lol...

As for hitting during a tantrum, I can't see how it's a good idea to hit an already out of control child. To be fair, though, I never had to deal with tantrums. I just get the eye-rolling and that look that says "jeeze, do I have to put up with this?" Ahhhhhhhhhh.... 9 year old! Gotta love it.

 

[jillian]

You're certainly entitled to your opinion.

We both are. The difference is you want to legislate yours into law and take away the ability of the rest of us to exercise our choice and our opinion.

Please explain how it is not scientific. Seems as if you are declaring it "religious" because that is the angle from which your argument best works.

No. It's because ultimately, it's a moral decision and my religious beliefs say that it's not a life. Yours says it is. Sounds like we should both have the right to our beliefs, no? Or is your belief system the final arbiter of the morality of the rest of us?

Still looking for scientific reasons why it is not a human life, not just "nuh-uh, because it isn't."

I could, but it would be a waste of my time to convince anyone who says abortion is murder that it is anything but. So I figure I'll not waste my time or yours.

Yes.

And there is the main reason that you and those who share your beliefs should never, ever, in a million years be able to impose your beliefs on the rest of us.

You asked what about your religious mores would "kill" the rest of us to have legislated... you just got your answer. You aren't pro-life. You're pro-birth. Under my fact pattern, it was likely that the babies and mom would be dead, but that was just peachy keen with you.

 

[nt250]

I don't hit my son often, but when I do I hit him on the thigh because when I hit him on the butt he looks at me, laughs and says "that tickles, mom". Little freakazoid. lol...

As for hitting during a tantrum, I can't see how it's a good idea to hit an already out of control child. To be fair, though, I never had to deal with tantrums. I just get the eye-rolling and that look that says "jeeze, do I have to put up with this?" Ahhhhhhhhhh.... 9 year old! Gotta love it.

Freakazoid, I love that. I think that should be the new biological definition of "child". Man, they can drive you so nuts, can't they?

I love to tell this story because it's a great example of how people who don't have kids are so unrealistically judmental with those of us who do.

In 1983 I saw the movie Terms Of Endearment in the theater. I thought Debra Winger was the worst example of a mother I had ever seen depicted on the screen, ever. There is a scene in the parking lot of a supermarket where Emma, Wingers character, is flirting with a man while her son, who is about 12, keeps interrupting them. She tells him sweetly "go wait over by the car, Honey" about 3 or 4 times, but he ignores her and keeps trying to get her away from the man. So she starts screaming at him "GO WAIT OVER BY THE CAR HONEY. NOW. NOW. NOW!!!"

Well, the theater just erupted in laughter and I sat there appalled. I did not find it the least bit funny. I could not for the life of me understand how anybody else in the theater thought it was funny. But it got a big laugh. I thought it was just horrible.

Then..... I became a mother. Now I see the humor in that scene. Kids will make you crazy.

 

[dmp]

This is a case where I see two glaring facts:

Jill and NT hit like girls.

Some parents here don't love their kids enough to spank them 'harder'.

(shrug).

a NINE year old throwing a tantrum?? Holy crap!! From that I can draw two OTHER facts:

The Kid's parents didn't love him/her enough to beat them when he/she was younger.

The kid will likely grow up to be a liberal.

 

[MtnBiker]

it's a moral decision and my religious beliefs say that it's not a life. Yours says it is.

Do you agree that any person who take the position that life begins at conception is only because of a religous belief?

 

[Nienna]

We both are. The difference is you want to legislate yours into law and take away the ability of the rest of us to exercise our choice and our opinion.

I want to take away the ability of women to wantonly kill unborn children. Your choices over your OWN bodies, I will defer to you.

No. It's because ultimately, it's a moral decision and my religious beliefs say that it's not a life. Yours says it is. Sounds like we should both have the right to our beliefs, no? Or is your belief system the final arbiter of the morality of the rest of us?

See, here's where you keep ignoring the SCIENTIFIC aspects of the debate.

I could, but it would be a waste of my time to convince anyone who says abortion is murder that it is anything but. So I figure I'll not waste my time or yours.

I'd like to call your bluff. I promise I won't consider it a waste of time. I would like to consider all scientific aspects of this debate. If you have more to add, I would be happy to take the time to consider them.

And there is the main reason that you and those who share your beliefs should never, ever, in a million years be able to impose your beliefs on the rest of us.

You asked what about your religious mores would "kill" the rest of us to have legislated... you just got your answer. You aren't pro-life. You're pro-birth. Under my fact pattern, it was likely that the babies and mom would be dead, but that was just peachy keen with you.

There are many successful examples of multiple births, some with more than 3 babies. One doctor doesn't know everything. I would get multiple opinions, then attempt to carry the children as long as possible in the hopes that one or more may live. Every attempt should be made to continue ALL the lives. Then, if those avenues are exhausted, most likely, something would occur naturally that would give an indication of the direction that should be taken.

However, "terminating one of the fetuses" would CERTAINLY end a life.

 

[Nienna]

Do you agree that any person who take the position that life begins at conception is only because of a religous belief?

Jillian doesn't want to address that issue. It shoots down her argument.

 

[nt250]

Jillian doesn't want to address that issue. It shoots down her argument.

It has everything to do with religion. You just keep using the word 'science" because as a religious person, you don't know the difference between science and religion because in your mind there IS no difference.

Seriously. Religous people really don't know the difference between science and their own religion. I've had many arguments over the years with religious people about prayer in public schools and without fail they always compare it to teaching an empirical subject. For some reason they almost always compare it to geometry.

"They teach geometry, don't they?" Well, of course they teach geometry. You got another theory of geometry that's better? Go for it. You want them to teach religion? Fine. Which one? Oh, right. Just yours. Well, if I think every school kid in this country should say a prayer to Satan, how would you like them apples, huh? Oh, that's a different story.

What I find most hypocritcal about pro-lifers is that they don't want other people playing God. Except them.

 

[Nienna]

It has everything to do with religion. You just keep using the word 'science" because as a religious person, you don't know the difference between science and religion because in your mind there IS no difference.

Seriously. Religous people really don't know the difference between science and their own religion. I've had many arguments over the years with religious people about prayer in public schools and without fail they always compare it to teaching an empirical subject. For some reason they almost always compare it to geometry.

"They teach geometry, don't they?" Well, of course they teach geometry. You got another theory of geometry that's better? Go for it. You want them to teach religion? Fine. Which one? Oh, right. Just yours. Well, if I think every school kid in this country should say a prayer to Satan, how would you like them apples, huh? Oh, that's a different story.

What I find most hypocritcal about pro-lifers is that they don't want other people playing God. Except them.

Okay, so what are the SCIENTIFIC arguments that would provide evidence that the "fetus" is not a live human baby?

 

[nt250]

Okay, so what are the SCIENTIFIC arguments that would provide evidence that the "fetus" is not a live human baby?

Stillbirth.

 

[Nienna]

Stillbirth.

Please explain how a stillborn child provides evidence that a LIVING fetus is not a human.

 

[nt250]

Please explain how a stillborn child provides evidence that a LIVING fetus is not a human.

If we had indefinate gestation, I'd wouldn't. But we don't.

 

[nt250]

Please explain how a stillborn child provides evidence that a LIVING fetus is not a human.

By the way, you should stick tothe "fetus is living" argument and forget the whole "human" argument. Women don't gestate cats, so you're really getting WAY off on this one.

 

[Dr Grump]

Okay, so what are the SCIENTIFIC arguments that would provide evidence that the "fetus" is not a live human baby?

Scientifically it is a fetus not a human baby. They are two different terms. One of the problems is when does a fetus become a baby? Peoples' opinions differ. And without a doubt, the vast majority of pro-lifers hold their opinions due to their religious belief - this board being but a prime example.