Male's right to abortion.

[BobPlumb]

so lets say they mess up, both agree that a child was not planned.

the woman gets the final say, she can either keep it and then expect payment via child sppt. or abort.

the man has zero choice, though each are equally responsible for the pregnancy, the man simply becomes a bystander; she can abort even if he wants it and will take responsibility in full, she can keep it even if he doesn't want responsibility, his part or ability to influence the decision in his favor is- zero. The woman's ability to influence the decision in her favor, either way, is total.

I think there is a fundamental inequity in that.

Take it up with God. He designed it that way, right?

If people waited until they were married to start popping out kids this wouldn't even be an issue. It all comes down to a complete lack of responsibility. As a man, don't put yourself in the situation and you won't have to worry about it.

I don't see how that addresses what I said

Also, God did not make abortion legal. So he did not designate it that way.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

The opinion of this god or that god is not germane. Nor does it matter that dead beat dad's break "god's" law as well as the law of the land. Yes, some go to jail which means they can't support their kids any better than when they were free. Many more just work under the table, off the books and keep on screwing more women and they keep right on waling away from their responsibility.

What is it the op is trying to say with this thread?

That men should not be responsible for pregnancies?

If they are not responsible for their offspring, then who is?

The state.

 

[BobPlumb]

The opinion of this god or that god is not germane. Nor does it matter that dead beat dad's break "god's" law as well as the law of the land. Yes, some go to jail which means they can't support their kids any better than when they were free. Many more just work under the table, off the books and keep on screwing more women and they keep right on waling away from their responsibility.

What is it the op is trying to say with this thread?

That men should not be responsible for pregnancies?

If they are not responsible for their offspring, then who is?

The state.

This op is purposing that men should be equal to women in being responsible for pregnancies. Not less responsible! Not more responsible! Equal!

 

[mamooth]

I purpose that if a fetus is not a baby, not a legally protected human life, then the male should be able to op out of his responsibility for the pregnancy. He should be able to legally inform the female that if she does not use the available contraception of abortion, then she is responsible for the child that is born as a consequence of the pregnancy.

Prochoice people, am I wrong? Why or why not?

Well, it has zilch to do with whether a fetus is a baby.

But, I agree. Men should be able to opt out.

That's just for single men. Marriage would be a legally binding promise by a man to accept paternity.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

The opinion of this god or that god is not germane. Nor does it matter that dead beat dad's break "god's" law as well as the law of the land. Yes, some go to jail which means they can't support their kids any better than when they were free. Many more just work under the table, off the books and keep on screwing more women and they keep right on waling away from their responsibility.

What is it the op is trying to say with this thread?

That men should not be responsible for pregnancies?

If they are not responsible for their offspring, then who is?

The state.

This op is purposing that men should be equal to women in being responsible for pregnancies. Not less responsible! Not more responsible! Equal!

Okay, but you seem to be saying men should be able screw around and walk away from the consequences of their actions.

No excuse for that and only real scum would do it.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

I purpose that if a fetus is not a baby, not a legally protected human life, then the male should be able to op out of his responsibility for the pregnancy. He should be able to legally inform the female that if she does not use the available contraception of abortion, then she is responsible for the child that is born as a consequence of the pregnancy.

Prochoice people, am I wrong? Why or why not?

Well, it has zilch to do with whether a fetus is a baby.

But, I agree. Men should be able to opt out.

That's just for single men. Marriage would be a legally binding promise by a man to accept paternity.

Actually, its men who have sex, married or not.

Those are the ones who cause pregnancies.

 

[BobPlumb]

The opinion of this god or that god is not germane. Nor does it matter that dead beat dad's break "god's" law as well as the law of the land. Yes, some go to jail which means they can't support their kids any better than when they were free. Many more just work under the table, off the books and keep on screwing more women and they keep right on waling away from their responsibility.

What is it the op is trying to say with this thread?

That men should not be responsible for pregnancies?

If they are not responsible for their offspring, then who is?

The state.

This op is purposing that men should be equal to women in being responsible for pregnancies. Not less responsible! Not more responsible! Equal!

Okay, but you seem to be saying men should be able screw around and walk away from the consequences of their actions.

No excuse for that and only real scum would do it.

Hmmmmmm... Abortion...walking away from consequencies of actions.........

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

The opinion of this god or that god is not germane. Nor does it matter that dead beat dad's break "god's" law as well as the law of the land. Yes, some go to jail which means they can't support their kids any better than when they were free. Many more just work under the table, off the books and keep on screwing more women and they keep right on waling away from their responsibility.

What is it the op is trying to say with this thread?

That men should not be responsible for pregnancies?

If they are not responsible for their offspring, then who is?

The state.

He’s trying to say he doesn’t understand what a false equivalence fallacy is, otherwise he wouldn’t have started the thread.

 

[BobPlumb]

Or perhaps you do not recognize true equalivance. Let's skip the "Is so -- is not" argument and agree to disagree.

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

It is the position of prochoice people that abortion is not murder. The fetus before viability outside the womb does not have a right to life that trumps the will of the potential mother. Thus, the pregnant female may legally use abortion as a method of birth control if she decides that she does not want the responsibilities of a child for any reason. She may even get an abortion against the wishes of the potential father.

However, if the male does not want a child, the female can go through with the pregnancy anyway. The male currently has no choice at this point but the female does. The male could be on the hook for 18 years of child support if the female has the baby.

I purpose that if a fetus is not a baby, not a legally protected human life, then the male should be able to op out of his responsibility for the pregnancy. He should be able to legally inform the female that if she does not use the available contraception of abortion, then she is responsible for the child that is born as a consequence of the pregnancy.

Prochoice people, am I wrong? Why or why not?

There is no 'right' to murder anyone. Be it a female who engages in coitus, conceiving a child as a result, or a male who does the same.

With that said, the responsibility for conception is SOLELY the responsibility of the female.

If she chooses to murder her child, she's solely responsible for that as well, and she will endure the consequences, which at the very least is a life of depression and regret. Except in the case of the sociopaths. They're just worthless across the board.

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

The opinion of this god or that god is not germane. Nor does it matter that dead beat dad's break "god's" law as well as the law of the land. Yes, some go to jail which means they can't support their kids any better than when they were free. Many more just work under the table, off the books and keep on screwing more women and they keep right on waling away from their responsibility.

What is it the op is trying to say with this thread?

That men should not be responsible for pregnancies?

If they are not responsible for their offspring, then who is?

The state.

The Female is solely responsible for their CHOICES. The state has absolutely NO Responsibility to the female or her children. None, ZERO, Nada.

 

[BlackSand]

Okay, but you seem to be saying men should be able screw around and walk away from the consequences of their actions.

No excuse for that and only real scum would do it.

At least we know how you feel about women who have abortions as the result of an unwanted pregnancy now ... Thanks for clarifying that.

.

 

[Noomi]

It is the position of prochoice people that abortion is not murder. The fetus before viability outside the womb does not have a right to life that trumps the will of the potential mother. Thus, the pregnant female may legally use abortion as a method of birth control if she decides that she does not want the responsibilities of a child for any reason. She may even get an abortion against the wishes of the potential father.

However, if the male does not want a child, the female can go through with the pregnancy anyway. The male currently has no choice at this point but the female does. The male could be on the hook for 18 years of child support if the female has the baby.

I purpose that if a fetus is not a baby, not a legally protected human life, then the male should be able to op out of his responsibility for the pregnancy. He should be able to legally inform the female that if she does not use the available contraception of abortion, then she is responsible for the child that is born as a consequence of the pregnancy.

Prochoice people, am I wrong? Why or why not?

I am on your side, provided the man walks away as SOON as the woman says she is pregnant. If he stays with her until her due date, and then decides to leave, too bad.
The woman might carry the baby, but its her choice as to whether to give birth. If she can't afford to raise it on her own, she has no business demanding money, IMO.

Fair is fair. The man should have the right to opt out.

 

[Asclepias]

I think missing in all this is the fact that the woman actually carries the child in her body during this period hence the extra legal right to abort the pregnancy.

 

[Noomi]

I think missing in all this is the fact that the woman actually carries the child in her body during this period hence the extra legal right to abort the pregnancy.

Men believe they have the right to control her body, though. Their sperm is more important than the fact that she uses her body for nine months to create that baby.

 

[thanatos144]

Being female does not mean you are born with the right to kill babies

tapatalk post

 

[Faun]

It is the position of prochoice people that abortion is not murder. The fetus before viability outside the womb does not have a right to life that trumps the will of the potential mother. Thus, the pregnant female may legally use abortion as a method of birth control if she decides that she does not want the responsibilities of a child for any reason. She may even get an abortion against the wishes of the potential father.

However, if the male does not want a child, the female can go through with the pregnancy anyway. The male currently has no choice at this point but the female does. The male could be on the hook for 18 years of child support if the female has the baby.

I purpose that if a fetus is not a baby, not a legally protected human life, then the male should be able to op out of his responsibility for the pregnancy. He should be able to legally inform the female that if she does not use the available contraception of abortion, then she is responsible for the child that is born as a consequence of the pregnancy.

Prochoice people, am I wrong? Why or why not?

Sure, you can avoid your personal responsibility while the woman you impregnated is pregnant ... but once she has the baby, you are both financially responsible.

 

[Faun]

Being female does not mean you are born with the right to kill babies

tapatalk post

No babies are being killed.

 

[Faun]

But should the male have the right to op out of the responsibility to be a parent before the fetus becomes a child. The mother has this right through abortion. If not, then why without using arguments that would also be against a woman's right to abortion?


For those of you that are against abortion but for abortion being legal, then you can also be against a male opting out of the responsibility of being a parent while the"child" is a fetus, but be for the male being legally able to do this.

P.S. Don't restate what the law currently is, state what you think it should be and why.

There is no ‘responsibility’ for the father to ‘opt out of’ prior to birth in the first place; once the child is born both parents are equally responsible. And if the parents aren’t living together the law addresses the rights and responsibilities of the custodial parent and the non-custodial parent.

This is why the issue of the responsibilities of the soon-to-be non-custodial parent are in no way related to the issue of abortion.

Yes they are related. A female can decide to avoid the responsibilities of being a parent by having an abortion. Of course a male cannot have an abortion for obvious biological reasons, but shouldn't he also be able to op out of the responsibility. The fetus is not yet a child so there is still a window of time to make a decision......at least there is for the female.

The time for men to opt out is when they put a condom on.

 

[Faun]

So, women should be 100% responsible for a live birth even though the male is 50% responsible for the pregnancy?

This is what dead beat dads believe and, on a very practical level, they're correct.

IMO, both men and women have sovereign rights over their own bodies. They also have responsibility for their actions and equal responsibility for their children.

If you don't want to support your children, don't make them. Take responsibility for what you say and do.

imho theres an equal share of responsibility, if men don't want a baby don't make them , ok, agreed and the same applies for a woman, there is no abrogation of responsibility for her either. NO means NO, right?

so lets say they mess up, both agree that a child was not planned.

the woman gets the final say, she can either keep it and then expect payment via child sppt. or abort.

the man has zero choice, though each are equally responsible for the pregnancy, the man simply becomes a bystander; she can abort even if he wants it and will take responsibility in full, she can keep it even if he doesn't want responsibility, his part or ability to influence the decision in his favor is- zero. The woman's ability to influence the decision in her favor, either way, is total.

I think there is a fundamental inequity in that.

That stems from the fundamental inequality of biology. When a man can get pregnant, then he will have the ability to abort the pregnancy or carry to term.