Making Gasoline/Diesel More Afforedable

[Pogo]

and guarantee limited availability.

Price controls have never failed to create shortages.

Make it more affordable?
Drop all the mandated mixtures, kill the alcohol requirements and reduce the taxes.

Fuel prices are controlled (uniform) in Brazil. I don't believe they have shortages.

That is because Brazil controlled price is above the market rate. They pay $5.26 a gallon for gas. If they dropped the price below market rates there would be a shortage. If the price was limited to 40 cents a gallon, production would halt & demand would soar. You would not be able to find a drop of gas anywhere in the country.

OK, you just said "price controls have never failed to create shortages", so I gave an example that disproves it.
Now you wanna throw in all kinds of qualifiers as to "what would happen if".

So never means never, except when it doesn't?

You lose.

 

[KissMy]

Fuel prices are controlled (uniform) in Brazil. I don't believe they have shortages.

That is because Brazil controlled price is above the market rate. They pay $5.26 a gallon for gas. If they dropped the price below market rates there would be a shortage. If the price was limited to 40 cents a gallon, production would halt & demand would soar. You would not be able to find a drop of gas anywhere in the country.

OK, you just said "price controls have never failed to create shortages", so I gave an example that disproves it.
Now you wanna throw in all kinds of qualifiers as to "what would happen if".

So never means never, except when it doesn't?

You lose.

I Win! - You are an idiot. I never claimed "price controls have never failed to create shortages". Your confused & quoting JWBooth.

 

[Pogo]

That is because Brazil controlled price is above the market rate. They pay $5.26 a gallon for gas. If they dropped the price below market rates there would be a shortage. If the price was limited to 40 cents a gallon, production would halt & demand would soar. You would not be able to find a drop of gas anywhere in the country.

OK, you just said "price controls have never failed to create shortages", so I gave an example that disproves it.
Now you wanna throw in all kinds of qualifiers as to "what would happen if".

So never means never, except when it doesn't?

You lose.

I Win! - You are an idiot. I never claimed "price controls have never failed to create shortages". Your confused & quoting JWBooth.

uh- that means JWBooth is who I was talking to in the first place.
Should I run that by slower?

How do you "win" if it's not even your quote?

Sheeeesh.

 

[KissMy]

A peer reviewed study from Roger Stern of Princeton, shows it cost the US $7.3 trillion to defend the oil supply over the past 30 years. Why the hell do us tax payers have to pay for that. Oil companies should be taxed to pay for that.

We need to stop taxing ethanol until the oil companies pay for their true defense cost.

 

[Politico]

Wow so few have a clue how things work.

 

[freedombecki]

A peer reviewed study from Roger Stern of Princeton, shows it cost the US $7.3 trillion to defend the oil supply over the past 30 years. Why the hell do us tax payers have to pay for that. Oil companies should be taxed to pay for that.

We need to stop taxing ethanol until the oil companies pay for their true defense cost.

Obama already did that. He shut down America in the Gulf of Mexico. That wiped out $200 billion per year in American holdings and gave $200 billion to communist countries--Cuba, China, and Russia, who rest assured, moved right on in after Obama's unilateral shutdown of thousands of American jobs in and around the Gulf of Mexico, and all because they were not fastidious contributors to his election campaign.

The loss in private sector jobs was horrendous, plus it destroyed many mom-and-pop Gulf Coast eateries who were hit when workers no longer were there to buy lunch, breakfast, or dinner, for good.

Don't be fooled by fools, KissMy. Taking out a huge arm of the oil companies that drilling in the Gulf of Mexico more than made up for what we lost and was the reason why oil prices doubled by the time Obama started his second year.

He used BP to beat up America' South for not voting for him and not allowing his ACORN subsidiaries to infiltrate and corrupt the vote so he could win states he couldn't win by honest means.

Why do you think President Obama is known by both sides as one of the Ten most corrupt politicians who ever lived in America? I'd give anything to say he was one of the best that people looked up to, but he is the Poster Boy for making America a Marxist (in a spread the wealth of other people) and his Sharia-friendly state. Maybe that's what some Americans want now, but it's not what I care for. I think America needs private sector jobs. When you turn all receipts for a country in to a one-world situation, it will revert back to being a dog-eat-dog world in which someone outside our borders decides what kind of slavery it has in store for free men and women.

When Russia did that, more than twenty million people died as the replacements for the Czar handed death warrants to workers by taking their productivity away from them and leaving them with not even so much as a loaf of bread, starving them to death, literally. I've seen some say the human life toll was as high as one hundred million, but most of those who actually went by the official body count agree it's twenty million. There is still a faction that said the count was corrupt and that it is higher, but it's a little hard to prove a death when birth certificates and death certificates alike are destroyed. The Bolsheviks killed untold numbers of their fellow Russians over jealousy of their ownership of private property and loyalty to old ways.

The EU would rather talk about how Americans killed the native Americans off when in fact, it was the Spanish Conquistadors, the British Army, certain French patrols, and only certain American Presidents, namely Andrew Jackson and his followers, did that. The EU doesn't hold its own feet to the fire for pandemic religious persecution massacres, tribal warfare and genocides, etc. that it wiped out all written information on them during Renaissance times to excuse itself forever from such deeds. They are liberals. Like Sandy Berger, if you get rid of the incriminating evidence showing you made a mistake, well, you just didn't do the deed since prosecutors have nothing to go on. Their pretense of never having harmed other human groups is basically a self-serving lie. The wealthy whose prodigy joined religious groups disagreeing with the monarch-du-jour were sent to America where their pilgrimage and servitude of poorly-paid labor would at least continue their line, and they wouldn't be bothered with the family disgrace of having children disagreeing with leaders, often weak puppets due to their birth into ruling families and susceptibility to following strong political forces within their sundry nations. Well, that's just my humble opinion. Carry on, but people living today had very little to do with what happened 400 years ago and even up through the present in most cases.

And the Oil Companies have repaid their debts in addition to being targets of opportunists in government like President Barack Obama.

 

[Sunshine]

A peer reviewed study from Roger Stern of Princeton, shows it cost the US $7.3 trillion to defend the oil supply over the past 30 years. Why the hell do us tax payers have to pay for that. Oil companies should be taxed to pay for that.

We need to stop taxing ethanol until the oil companies pay for their true defense cost.

Obama already did that. He shut down America in the Gulf of Mexico. That wiped out $200 billion per year in American holdings and gave $200 billion to communist countries--Cuba, China, and Russia, who rest assured, moved right on in after Obama's unilateral shutdown of thousands of American jobs in and around the Gulf of Mexico, and all because they were not fastidious contributors to his election campaign.

The loss in private sector jobs was horrendous, plus it destroyed many mom-and-pop Gulf Coast eateries who were hit when workers no longer were there to buy lunch, breakfast, or dinner, for good.

Don't be fooled by fools, KissMy. Taking out a huge arm of the oil companies that drilling in the Gulf of Mexico more than made up for what we lost and was the reason why oil prices doubled by the time Obama started his second year.

He used BP to beat up America' South for not voting for him and not allowing his ACORN subsidiaries to infiltrate and corrupt the vote so he could win states he couldn't win by honest means.

Why do you think President Obama is known by both sides as one of the Ten most corrupt politicians who ever lived in America? I'd give anything to say he was one of the best that people looked up to, but he is the Poster Boy for making America a Marxist (in a spread the wealth of other people) and his Sharia-friendly state. Maybe that's what some Americans want now, but it's not what I care for. I think America needs private sector jobs. When you turn all receipts for a country in to a one-world situation, it will revert back to being a dog-eat-dog world in which someone outside our borders decides what kind of slavery it has in store for free men and women.

When Russia did that, more than twenty million people died as the replacements for the Czar handed death warrants to workers by taking their productivity away from them and leaving them with not even so much as a loaf of bread, starving them to death, literally. I've seen some say the human life toll was as high as one hundred million, but most of those who actually went by the official body count agree it's twenty million. There is still a faction that said the count was corrupt and that it is higher, but it's a little hard to prove a death when birth certificates and death certificates alike are destroyed. The Bolsheviks killed untold numbers of their fellow Russians over jealousy of their ownership of private property and loyalty to old ways.

The EU would rather talk about how Americans killed the native Americans off when in fact, it was the Spanish Conquistadors, the British Army, certain French patrols, and only certain American Presidents, namely Andrew Jackson and his followers, did that. The EU doesn't hold its own feet to the fire for pandemic religious persecution massacres, tribal warfare and genocides, etc. that it wiped out all written information on them during Renaissance times to excuse itself forever from such deeds. They are liberals. Like Sandy Berger, if you get rid of the incriminating evidence showing you made a mistake, well, you just didn't do the deed since prosecutors have nothing to go on. Their pretense of never having harmed other human groups is basically a self-serving lie. The wealthy whose prodigy joined religious groups disagreeing with the monarch-du-jour were sent to America where their pilgrimage and servitude of poorly-paid labor would at least continue their line, and they wouldn't be bothered with the family disgrace of having children disagreeing with leaders, often weak puppets due to their birth into ruling families and susceptibility to following strong political forces within their sundry nations. Well, that's just my humble opinion. Carry on, but people living today had very little to do with what happened 400 years ago and even up through the present in most cases.

And the Oil Companies have repaid their debts in addition to being targets of opportunists in government like President Barack Obama.

I was down to the Gulf last October, there is still evidence of the oil spill. And they were still 'sifting sand' so to speak trying to salvage what businesses where left that depend on tourism.

 

[freedombecki]

A peer reviewed study from Roger Stern of Princeton, shows it cost the US $7.3 trillion to defend the oil supply over the past 30 years. Why the hell do us tax payers have to pay for that. Oil companies should be taxed to pay for that.

We need to stop taxing ethanol until the oil companies pay for their true defense cost.

Obama already did that. He shut down America in the Gulf of Mexico. That wiped out $200 billion per year in American holdings and gave $200 billion to communist countries--Cuba, China, and Russia, who rest assured, moved right on in after Obama's unilateral shutdown of thousands of American jobs in and around the Gulf of Mexico, and all because they were not fastidious contributors to his election campaign.

The loss in private sector jobs was horrendous, plus it destroyed many mom-and-pop Gulf Coast eateries who were hit when workers no longer were there to buy lunch, breakfast, or dinner, for good.

Don't be fooled by fools, KissMy. Taking out a huge arm of the oil companies that drilling in the Gulf of Mexico more than made up for what we lost and was the reason why oil prices doubled by the time Obama started his second year.

He used BP to beat up America' South for not voting for him and not allowing his ACORN subsidiaries to infiltrate and corrupt the vote so he could win states he couldn't win by honest means.

Why do you think President Obama is known by both sides as one of the Ten most corrupt politicians who ever lived in America? I'd give anything to say he was one of the best that people looked up to, but he is the Poster Boy for making America a Marxist (in a spread the wealth of other people) and his Sharia-friendly state. Maybe that's what some Americans want now, but it's not what I care for. I think America needs private sector jobs. When you turn all receipts for a country in to a one-world situation, it will revert back to being a dog-eat-dog world in which someone outside our borders decides what kind of slavery it has in store for free men and women.

When Russia did that, more than twenty million people died as the replacements for the Czar handed death warrants to workers by taking their productivity away from them and leaving them with not even so much as a loaf of bread, starving them to death, literally. I've seen some say the human life toll was as high as one hundred million, but most of those who actually went by the official body count agree it's twenty million. There is still a faction that said the count was corrupt and that it is higher, but it's a little hard to prove a death when birth certificates and death certificates alike are destroyed. The Bolsheviks killed untold numbers of their fellow Russians over jealousy of their ownership of private property and loyalty to old ways.

The EU would rather talk about how Americans killed the native Americans off when in fact, it was the Spanish Conquistadors, the British Army, certain French patrols, and only certain American Presidents, namely Andrew Jackson and his followers, did that. The EU doesn't hold its own feet to the fire for pandemic religious persecution massacres, tribal warfare and genocides, etc. that it wiped out all written information on them during Renaissance times to excuse itself forever from such deeds. They are liberals. Like Sandy Berger, if you get rid of the incriminating evidence showing you made a mistake, well, you just didn't do the deed since prosecutors have nothing to go on. Their pretense of never having harmed other human groups is basically a self-serving lie. The wealthy whose prodigy joined religious groups disagreeing with the monarch-du-jour were sent to America where their pilgrimage and servitude of poorly-paid labor would at least continue their line, and they wouldn't be bothered with the family disgrace of having children disagreeing with leaders, often weak puppets due to their birth into ruling families and susceptibility to following strong political forces within their sundry nations. Well, that's just my humble opinion. Carry on, but people living today had very little to do with what happened 400 years ago and even up through the present in most cases.

And the Oil Companies have repaid their debts in addition to being targets of opportunists in government like President Barack Obama.

I was down to the Gulf last October, there is still evidence of the oil spill. And they were still 'sifting sand' so to speak trying to salvage what businesses where left that depend on tourism.

There was a complete Media shutdown of causes of the problem, Obama wouldn't let BP investigators look into it and used American resources to block them from even finding evidence of the source. No reports of Greenpeace or other ships in the area is available to us, it's all been shut down due to "security" reasons. I smell a rat, but it's just a smell, nothing more. It's one thing to blame someone for something, but to prevent them from even looking into the matter after you've sent them a montrocious bill is beneath reproach. You used to have to prove malfeasance. Now, you only allow that if it is politically expedient to your re-election.

Transparency, thy name is not President Obama.

Sunshine, your point is most well-received. Pardon me if I'm a little on the perniciously skeptical side, but we're still in for one discovery after another when the onus is removed from investigators looking into this if Sandy Burger's boys are less than perfect removing eraser dust. Sandy Burger--the guy caught removing Clinton doings from the National ARchives a few years later for which he was convicted in court and had to do public service and pay a little fine. In order to send him the message he wasn't to do that again, Hillary Clinton let this sleight-of-hand info-removal artist be her campaign manager when she ran for President and gave him access to her after she became State Department Secretary. Just sayin.'

And the American press/infomercial corps increases the size of their blinders every day.

 

[Wyatt earp]

A peer reviewed study from Roger Stern of Princeton, shows it cost the US $7.3 trillion to defend the oil supply over the past 30 years. Why the hell do us tax payers have to pay for that. Oil companies should be taxed to pay for that.

We need to stop taxing ethanol until the oil companies pay for their true defense cost.

No like I said before, the rest of the world should be sent a bill for the U.S. Navy defending their oil as well as ours. They world is a bunch of freeloaders....

 

[Mr. H.]

What kills me is that we were "defending the oil supply" under Clinton, when oil was $10/barrel and gasoline was $1/gallon. That fuckwad allowed foreign countries to dump their commodity on our markets at below cost, destroying the hydrocarbon industries.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Gasoline, in America, is subsidized to keep the price artificially low.
If Americans stopped using gas the oil companies would simply sell it on the spot market, world wide, for over ten dollars a gallon. They would make tremendous profits if they didn't sell in the USA at all.

Ethanol is not a "water based" product. The empirical formula for Ethanol is: C2H6O
It combines readily with water but the Ethanol can be removed from the water through a controlled temperature increase to approximately 140F leaving the water behind in a liquid state as the Ethanol evaporates out and is recovered through condensation. This can be done in a "cracking" tower just as products are separated from crude oil but it can also be accomplished through the use of a simple "reflux" still.
Ethanol is not corrosive to most metals. It is a solvent that will clean most metals of oxidation and adding Ethanol to a rusted fuel system will result in the rust being dislodged and carried with the fuel to the injectors or carburetor. If the fuel system is flushed prior to the addition of Ethanol the rust deposits can be eliminated completely. Ethanol does not degrade flexible fuel lines. Any fuel line in current use is not affected adversly by Ethanol.

The production of ethanol in the USA uses largely feed grade corn and not the corn you serve with your dinner. The production has two major by-products. 1. A high protein feed that contains more protein than corn does pound for pound. 2. A high nitrogen fertilizer that is a better fertilizer than that produced by the distillation of petroleum products. If the value of all three products are calculated then Ethanol production is more cost efficient from the ground to the pump than petroleum products.

If an engine is designed to take advantage of the octane capabilities of ethanol it can be as efficient as current engines designed to run on gasoline and the Ethanol engine will produce more power for the same displacement.

Corn is a poor product to make into Ethanol. There are many others that produce more of all three components per acre with less cost.
example:
Jeruselum Artichokes can produce a perenial crop (never take the bulbs out of the ground) that converts to 2000 gallons per acre per year (with two harvests per year of the stalk only).

Alcohol can be made locally by individuals while gasoline cannot.
A 5 acre plot can produce 10000 gallons of Ethanol each year which converts to 12000 gallons of fuel.

So sorry still wrong.... Ethanol is water based. Oil don't have water in it 200 proof Ethanol does.

Pure (undenatured) anhydrous (200 proof/100%) ethyl alcohol. Meets USP and Multicompendial specifications. Used in research, healthcare, industrial, and production applications as a cleaner, solvent, and reagent. 200 proof ethanol is commonly referred to as "anhydrous." Koptec's water specification is less than 0.1%.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Cap regular unleaded and diesel prices to 40 cents above taxes at the pump nationwide.

Nationwide affordable gasoline.
Both gallons.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The list also includes heating oil which is a big budget item for the middle class. Ethanol is an expensive additive to gas and it's nothing but a feel-good promotion. Ethanol lowers octane and it costs more to grow than it saves in energy.

what I read it keeps gas a buck lower.
Ethanol Keeps Gasoline Prices $1.09 Cheaper | RFA: Renewable Fuels Association

OMG! That's hilarious. And wrong.
Why not mandate 30% ethanol, we'll save $3.27 per gallon!
So silly.

 

[KissMy]

The list also includes heating oil which is a big budget item for the middle class. Ethanol is an expensive additive to gas and it's nothing but a feel-good promotion. Ethanol lowers octane and it costs more to grow than it saves in energy.

what I read it keeps gas a buck lower.
Ethanol Keeps Gasoline Prices $1.09 Cheaper | RFA: Renewable Fuels Association

OMG! That's hilarious. And wrong.
Why not mandate 30% ethanol, we'll save $3.27 per gallon!
So silly.

You are wrong! Ethanol was lowering gasoline prices at the pump by 25% that equals $1 a gallon on $4 gas. We can't mandate 30% ethanol because shortage & imbalances will cause prices to rise. 10% ethanol was only mandated to replace MTBE because it contaminated the water supply.

There use to be lower taxes on ethanol at the pump. But since idiots in congress raised ethanol taxes December 31, 2011 the price you pay for gas & ethanol skyrocketed 45 cents a gallon. Enjoy bending over & taking it up the wallet even more at the pump. Ethanol held gasoline prices down over $1 a gallon. If you idiots keep on believing the garbage the oil companies keep spewing & ban ethanol, gas price will increase another $1 a gallon to stay permanently over $5 a gallon.

Note the price spike in gasoline at the pump when taxes were raised on ethanol on December 31, 2011. Enjoy the higher prices you tax & spend idiots!

We produce enough ethanol to supply 15% of the gasoline in this country. That means E85 sales were over 5% of pump sales & that competition was holding gasoline prices down. Since the ethanol tax increase made it less competitive it caused the ethanol storage to swell & production falling since 1/1/2012. Gasoline demand has increased by 5% since that time.

Ethanol is still replacing 10% of gasoline so it still holds down prices but ending the ethanol tax break most certainly increased the price by 45 cents at the pump. I do know it was holding gas prices down by at least 25%. Here is how I can prove it.

In the winter the demand for heating-oil/diesel-fuel is high & gasoline is low. That makes gasoline a bi-product from the barrels of crude oil they refine into heating oil. So the gas price dropped below & heating-oil/diesel-fuel would rise above gasoline every winter.

The exact opposite happened every summer.

In the summer the demand for gasoline is high & heating-oil/diesel-fuel is low. That makes heating-oil/diesel-fuel a bi-product from the barrels of crude oil they refine into gasoline. So the heating-oil/diesel-fuel price dropped below & gasoline would rise above heating-oil/diesel-fuel every winter.

Before the big rise in Ethanol production this translated into gasoline being at least 25% higher than diesel-fuel at the pump in the summer & diesel-fuel costing at least 25% more than gasoline in the winter.

Now in the past 4 years since ethanol production ramped up gasoline prices never even get as high as diesel-fuel even in the summer. At current prices that means Ethanol is holding Gasoline prices at the pump down by at least a $1 a gallon. Last years drought plus this years corn seed shortage & to cold & wet planting season has stopped ethanol exports & triggered importing for the first time. Gas prices are higher because of less ethanol competition.

 

[Mr. H.]

Ethanol contaminates water supplies, ma'am.
Methanol was replaced because it was strong-armed out of the equation by Agricultural interests.

Ethanol is a bill of goods, rammed through by Agriculture and farm-state politicians.
Then it was given a guaranteed 10% market share.
Pretty sweet deal for the poor little American Farmer.

GOD MADE A FARMER!

​

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

what I read it keeps gas a buck lower.
Ethanol Keeps Gasoline Prices $1.09 Cheaper | RFA: Renewable Fuels Association

OMG! That's hilarious. And wrong.
Why not mandate 30% ethanol, we'll save $3.27 per gallon!
So silly.

You are wrong! Ethanol was lowering gasoline prices at the pump by 25% that equals $1 a gallon on $4 gas. We can't mandate 30% ethanol because shortage & imbalances will cause prices to rise. 10% ethanol was only mandated to replace MTBE because it contaminated the water supply.

There use to be lower taxes on ethanol at the pump. But since idiots in congress raised ethanol taxes December 31, 2011 the price you pay for gas & ethanol skyrocketed 45 cents a gallon. Enjoy bending over & taking it up the wallet even more at the pump. Ethanol held gasoline prices down over $1 a gallon. If you idiots keep on believing the garbage the oil companies keep spewing & ban ethanol, gas price will increase another $1 a gallon to stay permanently over $5 a gallon.

Note the price spike in gasoline at the pump when taxes were raised on ethanol on December 31, 2011. Enjoy the higher prices you tax & spend idiots!

We produce enough ethanol to supply 15% of the gasoline in this country. That means E85 sales were over 5% of pump sales & that competition was holding gasoline prices down. Since the ethanol tax increase made it less competitive it caused the ethanol storage to swell & production falling since 1/1/2012. Gasoline demand has increased by 5% since that time.

Ethanol is still replacing 10% of gasoline so it still holds down prices but ending the ethanol tax break most certainly increased the price by 45 cents at the pump. I do know it was holding gas prices down by at least 25%. Here is how I can prove it.

In the winter the demand for heating-oil/diesel-fuel is high & gasoline is low. That makes gasoline a bi-product from the barrels of crude oil they refine into heating oil. So the gas price dropped below & heating-oil/diesel-fuel would rise above gasoline every winter.

The exact opposite happened every summer.

In the summer the demand for gasoline is high & heating-oil/diesel-fuel is low. That makes heating-oil/diesel-fuel a bi-product from the barrels of crude oil they refine into gasoline. So the heating-oil/diesel-fuel price dropped below & gasoline would rise above heating-oil/diesel-fuel every winter.

Before the big rise in Ethanol production this translated into gasoline being at least 25% higher than diesel-fuel at the pump in the summer & diesel-fuel costing at least 25% more than gasoline in the winter.

Now in the past 4 years since ethanol production ramped up gasoline prices never even get as high as diesel-fuel even in the summer. At current prices that means Ethanol is holding Gasoline prices at the pump down by at least a $1 a gallon. Last years drought plus this years corn seed shortage & to cold & wet planting season has stopped ethanol exports & triggered importing for the first time. Gas prices are higher because of less ethanol competition.

You are wrong! Ethanol was lowering gasoline prices at the pump by 25% that equals $1 a gallon on $4 gas.

How does adding 10% ethanol lower the price 25%? Show me your math.

There use to be lower taxes on ethanol at the pump. But since idiots in congress raised ethanol taxes December 31, 2011 the price you pay for gas & ethanol skyrocketed 45 cents a gallon.

If ethanol rose 45 cents, that would raise the price of E10, 4.5 cents.

We produce enough ethanol to supply 15% of the gasoline in this country.

Why not make it easier to drill for oil, and eat our food, instead of burning it?

At current prices that means Ethanol is holding Gasoline prices at the pump down by at least a $1 a gallon.

That's an awesome theory! Let's end the mandate, if it makes sense economically, they'll still use it.

 

[KissMy]

OMG! That's hilarious. And wrong.
Why not mandate 30% ethanol, we'll save $3.27 per gallon!
So silly.

You are wrong! Ethanol was lowering gasoline prices at the pump by 25% that equals $1 a gallon on $4 gas. We can't mandate 30% ethanol because shortage & imbalances will cause prices to rise. 10% ethanol was only mandated to replace MTBE because it contaminated the water supply.

There use to be lower taxes on ethanol at the pump. But since idiots in congress raised ethanol taxes December 31, 2011 the price you pay for gas & ethanol skyrocketed 45 cents a gallon. Enjoy bending over & taking it up the wallet even more at the pump. Ethanol held gasoline prices down over $1 a gallon. If you idiots keep on believing the garbage the oil companies keep spewing & ban ethanol, gas price will increase another $1 a gallon to stay permanently over $5 a gallon.

Note the price spike in gasoline at the pump when taxes were raised on ethanol on December 31, 2011. Enjoy the higher prices you tax & spend idiots!

We produce enough ethanol to supply 15% of the gasoline in this country. That means E85 sales were over 5% of pump sales & that competition was holding gasoline prices down. Since the ethanol tax increase made it less competitive it caused the ethanol storage to swell & production falling since 1/1/2012. Gasoline demand has increased by 5% since that time.

Ethanol is still replacing 10% of gasoline so it still holds down prices but ending the ethanol tax break most certainly increased the price by 45 cents at the pump. I do know it was holding gas prices down by at least 25%. Here is how I can prove it.

In the winter the demand for heating-oil/diesel-fuel is high & gasoline is low. That makes gasoline a bi-product from the barrels of crude oil they refine into heating oil. So the gas price dropped below & heating-oil/diesel-fuel would rise above gasoline every winter.

The exact opposite happened every summer.

In the summer the demand for gasoline is high & heating-oil/diesel-fuel is low. That makes heating-oil/diesel-fuel a bi-product from the barrels of crude oil they refine into gasoline. So the heating-oil/diesel-fuel price dropped below & gasoline would rise above heating-oil/diesel-fuel every winter.

Before the big rise in Ethanol production this translated into gasoline being at least 25% higher than diesel-fuel at the pump in the summer & diesel-fuel costing at least 25% more than gasoline in the winter.

Now in the past 4 years since ethanol production ramped up gasoline prices never even get as high as diesel-fuel even in the summer. At current prices that means Ethanol is holding Gasoline prices at the pump down by at least a $1 a gallon. Last years drought plus this years corn seed shortage & to cold & wet planting season has stopped ethanol exports & triggered importing for the first time. Gas prices are higher because of less ethanol competition.

You are wrong! Ethanol was lowering gasoline prices at the pump by 25% that equals $1 a gallon on $4 gas.

How does adding 10% ethanol lower the price 25%? Show me your math.

There use to be lower taxes on ethanol at the pump. But since idiots in congress raised ethanol taxes December 31, 2011 the price you pay for gas & ethanol skyrocketed 45 cents a gallon.

If ethanol rose 45 cents, that would raise the price of E10, 4.5 cents.

We produce enough ethanol to supply 15% of the gasoline in this country.

Why not make it easier to drill for oil, and eat our food, instead of burning it?

At current prices that means Ethanol is holding Gasoline prices at the pump down by at least a $1 a gallon.

That's an awesome theory! Let's end the mandate, if it makes sense economically, they'll still use it.

Show your math? What a retard! Prices & percentage change in supply are not linear.

If 100 people want 100 gallons of gas but suddenly there is only 95 gallons available, prices don't just rise 5%. They rise until 5% can't afford gas.

A 45 cent tax hike on a competitors product means demand will drive your price up 45 cents before consumers demand the competition product again. The 4.5 cent increase was only for the 10% mixed in the gas, the rest was from E85 being completive until gas rose 40 cents.

Corn Ethanol creates more food than Corn alone does. Prior to ethanol the corn was just fed to livestock. Livestock evolved as foragers, not raw corn eaters. Animals eating corn emit methane gas & pass most of the nourishment of the corn out into manure that emits methane & pollutes water. Methane is 15 times worse on the environment as CO2. Ethanol plants grind, cook & use enzymes to breakdown corn into energy & protein. Ethanol plants turn all the starch in corn that animals emit into the atmosphere as methane, into Ethanol before feeding it. All the corn protein (that builds muscle steak & hamburger in animals) remains as a highly digestible ethanol plant by-product called DDG livestock feed that grows animals 25% faster on 30% less feed than corn or grass does. The fact is if you are in livestock production, you can not be competitive unless you are feeding Ethanol DDG Feed! Also ethanol plants run on waste heat from power plants & steel mills. They do not consume raw energy to generate Ethanol. The real EROEI for Corn Ethanol is 3 to 1 which is higher than Oil from Canada's Tar Sands.

Steel refineries waste heat create steam that spins a turbine that generates electricity that powers the grid & ethanol plant. The exhaust from the steam turbine heats the mash at the ethanol plant. The waste heat from the ethanol plant heats greenhouses that grow food. The ethanol mash is only heated for fermentation & no longer heated to a boil to distill it. Ethanol is evacuated from the mash. Other ethanol plants are built next to a Natural Gas Turbine Power plant. The waste heat from the Power plants NG Turbine went to a boiler & made steam to power a steam turbine that generated power for the grid & power plant. The heat from boiler vent stack & exhausted steam from turbine heated the mash for fermentation & ethanol was evacuated from the mash. Heat from the mash heated buildings.

 

[Mr. H.]

Let's keep it simple folks.
This was a sham from day one. Don't try to manicure the bullshit.

 

[KissMy]

Let's keep it simple folks.
This was a sham from day one. Don't try to manicure the bullshit.

Please explain the 45 cent rise in gasoline when ethanol got a 45 cent tax hike. Please explain why gasoline used to be 25% higher than diesel this time of year prior to ethanol, but is now lower than diesel.

Note the price spike in gasoline at the pump when taxes were raised on ethanol on December 31, 2011.

 

[Mr. H.]

Let's keep it simple folks.
This was a sham from day one. Don't try to manicure the bullshit.

Please explain the 45 cent rise in gasoline when ethanol got a 45 cent tax hike.

Note the price spike in gasoline at the pump when taxes were raised on ethanol on December 31, 2011.

Me? Why?

I've followed this program from its infancy.

There is a singular purpose to this program- get that extra bushel of grain to market, and line the pockets of agriculture.

I like ya, Ms. My. But I have an intense disdain for the agriculture industry. They railroaded this bullshit based on shady science and lie after lie. Screw them and their cock-eyed schemes.