Making Gasoline/Diesel More Afforedable

[Pogo]

Cap regular unleaded and diesel prices to 40 cents above taxes at the pump nationwide.

and guarantee limited availability.

Price controls have never failed to create shortages.

Make it more affordable?
Drop all the mandated mixtures, kill the alcohol requirements and reduce the taxes.

Fuel prices are controlled (uniform) in Brazil. I don't believe they have shortages.

 

[Mr. H.]

Where's my affordable food?
Record prices for groceries while agriculture exports hundreds of millions of metric tons of OUR food!
It ain't fair, I tells ya.

 

[JWBooth]

For now...

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/27/w...-regain-lost-swagger.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

 

[usmcstinger]

Natural gas will become the new fuel. In fact, most heavy duty equipment, power plants, big Earth Movers, farm machinery produced by CAT and John Deere are made to run on natural gas. A good number TAXi's in NYC have been running on natural gas for over 5 years. Warren Buffet is testing natural gas powered on the trains. A Ford 150 running on natural gas should be for sale soon. Natural gas is the cleanest fossil based fuel.

 

[Mr. H.]

For now...

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/27/w...-regain-lost-swagger.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Whoa, hold on a second. Brazil imports ethanol from the U.S.....

That is so fucking insane and typical of our agriculture industry. They've given it to us up the ass for decades. We pay them to do it, and thank them in the process.

After all... God made a farmer.

 

[Mr Natural]

Considering what it has to go through to get to the pump, it's astonishing that it doesn't cost a whole lot more than it does.

 

[KissMy]

Cap regular unleaded and diesel prices to 40 cents above taxes at the pump nationwide.

and guarantee limited availability.

Price controls have never failed to create shortages.

Make it more affordable?
Drop all the mandated mixtures, kill the alcohol requirements and reduce the taxes.

Fuel prices are controlled (uniform) in Brazil. I don't believe they have shortages.

That is because Brazil controlled price is above the market rate. They pay $5.26 a gallon for gas. If they dropped the price below market rates there would be a shortage. If the price was limited to 40 cents a gallon, production would halt & demand would soar. You would not be able to find a drop of gas anywhere in the country.

 

[KissMy]

Considering what it has to go through to get to the pump, it's astonishing that it doesn't cost a whole lot more than it does.

If we had to pay the $1 a gallon cost of defending our oil suppliers at the pump it would cost a lot more.

 

[JWBooth]

For now...

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/27/w...-regain-lost-swagger.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Whoa, hold on a second. Brazil imports ethanol from the U.S.....

That is so fucking insane and typical of our agriculture industry. They've given it to us up the ass for decades. We pay them to do it, and thank them in the process.

After all... God made a farmer.

and Congress made ethanol subsidies and mandates

 

[KissMy]

and Congress made ethanol subsidies and mandates

There is no ethanol subsidy. The so called ethanol subsidy was just lower tax on ethanol vs gas. Ethanol was still taxed just at a lower rate. This lower tax was eliminated in 2010. Ethanol is now taxed at the same rate. It cost us $1 a gallon to fight wars to secure our oil supply. Gas should be taxed a dollar a gallon higher than ethanol, but oil companies cried like a baby because the ethanol tax was 20 cents lower. They blasted the airwaves with anti-ethanol propaganda & crippling subsidy bullshit. The day that ethanol tax was raised gasoline price soared 40 cents a gallon at the pump because it decreased ethanol as a competitor to gasoline.

There was never a lower ethanol vs gas tax on exports, yet we exported billions of gallons at a profit up until last years drought. We were the worlds cheapest & largest ethanol producers. Brazil & Saudi Arabia were importing US ethanol like crazy & we were making a profit on it.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Considering what it has to go through to get to the pump, it's astonishing that it doesn't cost a whole lot more than it does.

If we had to pay the $1 a gallon cost of defending our oil suppliers at the pump it would cost a lot more.

I stll dont know why we just dont send the bill to China,Great Britian, Australia, New Zealand .............I dont see their Aircraft carrier fleets defending the shipping lanes around the middle east and in the Pacific and Atlantic

 

[Mr. H.]

and Congress made ethanol subsidies and mandates

There is no ethanol subsidy. The so called ethanol subsidy was just lower tax on ethanol vs gas. Ethanol was still taxed just at a lower rate. This lower tax was eliminated in 2010. Ethanol is now taxed at the same rate. It cost us $1 a gallon to fight wars to secure our oil supply. Gas should be taxed a dollar a gallon higher than ethanol, but oil companies cried like a baby because the ethanol tax was 20 cents lower. They blasted the airwaves with anti-ethanol propaganda & crippling subsidy bullshit. The day that ethanol tax was raised gasoline price soared 40 cents a gallon at the pump because it decreased ethanol as a competitor to gasoline.

"Fighting wars to secure oil supply" is convoluted logic. Always has been.

What oil companies primarily "cried" about was the mandated blending and retailing of ethanol. And the guaranteed 15% market that was handed agriculture- on a platter.

Methanol was railroaded out of the picture by agriculture interests to clear the way for their little pet project to be rammed down consumers' gullets.

The entire ethanol program was based on pro-ethanol propaganda:
a) It will result in cleaner air. Bullshit.
b) It will reduce imports. Bullshit.
c) It will result in higher prices for the poor little farmers' pocketbooks. BINGO

As if diverting 40% of corn acreage to ethanol production isn't enough to satisfy that greedy industry, so much of the shit is made that we export 20% of it!

Was THAT part of the intent when this program was introduced? No it wasn't.

Farm state votes. That's what it's all about. Do the Hokey Pokey and turn yerself around.

 

[KissMy]

Oil companies have many states banning Tesla car sales. They are cry babies!

Tesla is the only company to completely pay back all government DOE loans. Their stock is up 400% in 6 months. Big oil is trying to shut them down.

 

[JWBooth]

Oil companies have many states banning Tesla car sales. They are cry babies!

Tesla is the only company to completely pay back all government DOE loans. Their stock is up 400% in 6 months. Big oil is trying to shut them down.

Link?

 

[KissMy]

Oil companies have many states banning Tesla car sales. They are cry babies!

Tesla is the only company to completely pay back all government DOE loans. Their stock is up 400% in 6 months. Big oil is trying to shut them down.

Link?

Tesla Repays Department of Energy Loan Nine Years Early

Colorado baned Tesla sales & now North Carolina is trying to do the same.

Forbes: North Carolina's Threat To Tesla Likely Unconstitutional

Tesla stock (TSLA) topped $110 yesterday! It's up 400% in 6 months

 

[JWBooth]

Oil companies have many states banning Tesla car sales. They are cry babies!

Tesla is the only company to completely pay back all government DOE loans. Their stock is up 400% in 6 months. Big oil is trying to shut them down.

Link?

Tesla Repays Department of Energy Loan Nine Years Early

Colorado baned them & now North Carolina is trying.

Forbes: North Carolina's Threat To Tesla Likely Unconstitutional

Tesla stock (TSLA) topped $110 yesterday! It's up 400% in 6 months

What I see here is a threat to the direct marketing model in selling the cars, not a ban of the cars. Is this the problem in Colorado as well, the report linked does not mention a ban there.

 

[bornright]

Big oil is a monopoly. There's only one way to effectively control a monopoly. Regulate the shit out of them.

Are you saying the fuel alternatives pushed so strongly for by Obama's administration are just talk? A lot of our money has gone in to prop these companies up. Competition is what we need. What you seek would put us all a foot. The oil companies could wait us out until we threw Obama or whoever else came up with such an idea out on their ear.

The year was 2005.

Are you telling me that the Bush administration over regulated the oil industry?

Like I said the only thing we need is competition with an inexpensive efficient fuel that can stand by itself without the government having to hold it up. The trouble is we are still waiting.

 

[KissMy]

Link?

Tesla Repays Department of Energy Loan Nine Years Early

Colorado baned them & now North Carolina is trying.

Forbes: North Carolina's Threat To Tesla Likely Unconstitutional

Tesla stock (TSLA) topped $110 yesterday! It's up 400% in 6 months

What I see here is a threat to the direct marketing model in selling the cars, not a ban of the cars. Is this the problem in Colorado as well, the report linked does not mention a ban there.

Sure - And Rockefeller paying for prohibition was not about eliminating ethanol competition. And the wars in the middle-east has nothing to do with oil.

 

[PaulS1950]

Gasoline, in America, is subsidized to keep the price artificially low.
If Americans stopped using gas the oil companies would simply sell it on the spot market, world wide, for over ten dollars a gallon. They would make tremendous profits if they didn't sell in the USA at all.

Ethanol is not a "water based" product. The empirical formula for Ethanol is: C2H6O
It combines readily with water but the Ethanol can be removed from the water through a controlled temperature increase to approximately 140F leaving the water behind in a liquid state as the Ethanol evaporates out and is recovered through condensation. This can be done in a "cracking" tower just as products are separated from crude oil but it can also be accomplished through the use of a simple "reflux" still.
Ethanol is not corrosive to most metals. It is a solvent that will clean most metals of oxidation and adding Ethanol to a rusted fuel system will result in the rust being dislodged and carried with the fuel to the injectors or carburetor. If the fuel system is flushed prior to the addition of Ethanol the rust deposits can be eliminated completely. Ethanol does not degrade flexible fuel lines. Any fuel line in current use is not affected adversly by Ethanol.

The production of ethanol in the USA uses largely feed grade corn and not the corn you serve with your dinner. The production has two major by-products. 1. A high protein feed that contains more protein than corn does pound for pound. 2. A high nitrogen fertilizer that is a better fertilizer than that produced by the distillation of petroleum products. If the value of all three products are calculated then Ethanol production is more cost efficient from the ground to the pump than petroleum products.

If an engine is designed to take advantage of the octane capabilities of ethanol it can be as efficient as current engines designed to run on gasoline and the Ethanol engine will produce more power for the same displacement.

Corn is a poor product to make into Ethanol. There are many others that produce more of all three components per acre with less cost.
example:
Jeruselum Artichokes can produce a perenial crop (never take the bulbs out of the ground) that converts to 2000 gallons per acre per year (with two harvests per year of the stalk only).

Alcohol can be made locally by individuals while gasoline cannot.
A 5 acre plot can produce 10000 gallons of Ethanol each year which converts to 12000 gallons of fuel.

 

[Mr. H.]

Remind me again why we need to make gasoline/diesel "more affordable".