Like obamacare? read this

[Redfish]

not in the USA pre-obozocare.

Sure it did. If you don't have health insurance, you cannot see a doctor unless you pay.

NO, thats a lie. No one was turned away from a hospital if they needed medical care, no one was turned away from a free clinic if they needed medical care. There was no healthcare crisis in the USA.

And your link proves what you say?

here is a cite for you Obamacare: Before and After - Discover the Networks

and a pertinent quote since I am sure you won't bother to read it.


Healthcare Expenditures in the United States
* During the months and years just prior to the March 23, 2010 passage of the ACA, claims about the “skyrocketing costs” of American healthcare were ubiquitous in the media.
* But in fact, from a historical perspective, healthcare spending in the U.S. was increasing more slowly than it had at any time in half a century.

* During the years 2000 through 2010—the decade just prior to the beginning of the ACA's implementation—Americans' total expenditures on physicians and related clinical services grew at the following rates: 7.0% in 2000; 8.6% in 2001; 8.0% in 2002; 8.0% in 2003; 6.9% in 2004; 6.0% in 2005; 5.2% in 2006; 5.2% in 2007; 5.4% in 2008; 3.3% in 2009; and 2.5% in 2010.

* By way of comparison, total healthcare spending in the U.S. grew by 10.3% in the year 1970, and by 13% in 1980.
* Critics of health insurance companies have routinely accused these firms of greed and price-gouging:
* In a July 2009 press conference, President Barack Obama said: "There have been reports just over the last couple of days of insurance companies making record profits, right now. At a time when everybody's getting hammered, they're making record profits, and premiums are going up."

* A few days later, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi accused insuerers of being "immoral," and called them "the villains" in the healthcare reform battle.
* In reality, each dollar of revenue that health insurance companies take in, includes just 2.2 cents of profit. [TAO: Loc. 2079-80]

Absolutely false.

nope, sorry absolutely true. sorry if the truth offends you, but it is what it is.

 

[Redfish]

not in the USA pre-obozocare.

Sure it did. If you don't have health insurance, you cannot see a doctor unless you pay.

NO, thats a lie. No one was turned away from a hospital if they needed medical care, no one was turned away from a free clinic if they needed medical care. There was no healthcare crisis in the USA.

And your link proves what you say?

here is a cite for you Obamacare: Before and After - Discover the Networks

and a pertinent quote since I am sure you won't bother to read it.


Healthcare Expenditures in the United States
* During the months and years just prior to the March 23, 2010 passage of the ACA, claims about the “skyrocketing costs” of American healthcare were ubiquitous in the media.
* But in fact, from a historical perspective, healthcare spending in the U.S. was increasing more slowly than it had at any time in half a century.

* During the years 2000 through 2010—the decade just prior to the beginning of the ACA's implementation—Americans' total expenditures on physicians and related clinical services grew at the following rates: 7.0% in 2000; 8.6% in 2001; 8.0% in 2002; 8.0% in 2003; 6.9% in 2004; 6.0% in 2005; 5.2% in 2006; 5.2% in 2007; 5.4% in 2008; 3.3% in 2009; and 2.5% in 2010.

* By way of comparison, total healthcare spending in the U.S. grew by 10.3% in the year 1970, and by 13% in 1980.
* Critics of health insurance companies have routinely accused these firms of greed and price-gouging:
* In a July 2009 press conference, President Barack Obama said: "There have been reports just over the last couple of days of insurance companies making record profits, right now. At a time when everybody's getting hammered, they're making record profits, and premiums are going up."

* A few days later, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi accused insuerers of being "immoral," and called them "the villains" in the healthcare reform battle.
* In reality, each dollar of revenue that health insurance companies take in, includes just 2.2 cents of profit. [TAO: Loc. 2079-80]

And how have healthcare expenditure increased since the ACA was passed?

who do you think is paying for the govt beaurocrats who are running it? You and me, dude. also paying are the people whose premiums and deductibles are higher.

but if you are getting it free, its great, I understand that.

 

[Redfish]

If your employer is subsidizing your health insurance, good for you. He is probably reducing your raises or other benefits to cover his additional costs for insurance.

I fully understand how deductibles work. If your deductible is $1000 (which is very low under ACA) then you pay your premiums plus $1000 each year. That total is your out of pocket cost. Unless you are getting your ACA policy free or heavily subsidized, you are paying more now for less coverage than before ACA. That is simply a fact.

If you're getting it free, of course you like it, someone else is paying your premium.

Like most Americans, I have coverage through employment. It has not affected our raises. And the ACA has not affected the premiums employers pay because 98% or so of employer based health plans already provided the minimum mandated coverage. What freaks you assholes out is how well the law is working; how it is covering millions who were not; how it is slowing the growth of health care costs; how it is helping to reduce the deficit and how it has created hundreds of thousands of jobs.

that is simply not true. If it was working I would be the first one to admit it. But its not working. Those hit hardest are the self employed or those whose employers do not offer health plans. Those people are paying much higher premiums, higher deductibles and have less coverage than they had before. They are forced to pay for coverages that they do not want and do not need. You seem to think thats a good thing, but its not when you are the one paying.

you may think your employer is not adjusting your other benefits to cover his additional healthcare insurance costs, but I guarantee you that he is.

Group insurance policies through employers ALREADY COVERED PREGNANCY, existing illnesses and birth control....BEFORE O Care.

That's a fact.

Some did, many allowed you to opt out of maternity coverage if you did not need it. only a very few covered birth control (pills, etc).

but as I said to the other liberfool, people with employer provided insurance are not the major victims of this fiasco government takeover, self employed and young people are the ones hurt the most.

Those unable to get individual insurance are being HELPED, the MOST.....not hurt the most. They are getting subsidies to help them purchase it, and if they are low income, they get additional help with the ACA's Cost Sharing Reduction plan....that reduces out of pocket costs and eliminates (or reduces greatly) deductibles.

The people hurt the MOST are the poorest among us in the Republican States that did not expand Medicaid coverage.....and you can thank Republicans in State legislatures and Republican Governors for that harm.

LOL, total bullshit. did you get that from kos or huffpuffpost?

 

[Care4all]

Most of the uninsured were not getting free medical treatment before the ACA....they were being billed for any emergency care they got, and ultimately, filing bankruptcy...

 

[Arianrhod]

who do you think is paying for the govt beaurocrats who are running it?

Running what? The health exchange websites? You'll need to be more specific.

You and me, dude. also paying are the people whose premiums and deductibles are higher.

It sounds as if you're really suffering. Can you detail exactly how much the PPACA is affecting your financial stability?

but if you are getting it free, its great, I understand that.

So you're suggesting he's simultaneously paying for it and getting it free?

The silly assumption that anyone who can cite facts instead of relying on blogs and drama is "getting it free" is just that...silly. There's no basis for it except the drama you people create around it because you can't handle the truth.

 

[Care4all]

Like most Americans, I have coverage through employment. It has not affected our raises. And the ACA has not affected the premiums employers pay because 98% or so of employer based health plans already provided the minimum mandated coverage. What freaks you assholes out is how well the law is working; how it is covering millions who were not; how it is slowing the growth of health care costs; how it is helping to reduce the deficit and how it has created hundreds of thousands of jobs.

that is simply not true. If it was working I would be the first one to admit it. But its not working. Those hit hardest are the self employed or those whose employers do not offer health plans. Those people are paying much higher premiums, higher deductibles and have less coverage than they had before. They are forced to pay for coverages that they do not want and do not need. You seem to think thats a good thing, but its not when you are the one paying.

you may think your employer is not adjusting your other benefits to cover his additional healthcare insurance costs, but I guarantee you that he is.

Group insurance policies through employers ALREADY COVERED PREGNANCY, existing illnesses and birth control....BEFORE O Care.

That's a fact.

Some did, many allowed you to opt out of maternity coverage if you did not need it. only a very few covered birth control (pills, etc).

but as I said to the other liberfool, people with employer provided insurance are not the major victims of this fiasco government takeover, self employed and young people are the ones hurt the most.

Those unable to get individual insurance are being HELPED, the MOST.....not hurt the most. They are getting subsidies to help them purchase it, and if they are low income, they get additional help with the ACA's Cost Sharing Reduction plan....that reduces out of pocket costs and eliminates (or reduces greatly) deductibles.

The people hurt the MOST are the poorest among us in the Republican States that did not expand Medicaid coverage.....and you can thank Republicans in State legislatures and Republican Governors for that harm.

LOL, total bullshit. did you get that from kos or huffpuffpost?

I don't read kos or the huffington post....I have informed myself on the Bill itself....and the exchange.

Where does your bull crud info come from, FOX or CNS or WND or the rightwing blogosphere?

 

[paddymurphy]

Like most Americans, I have coverage through employment. It has not affected our raises. And the ACA has not affected the premiums employers pay because 98% or so of employer based health plans already provided the minimum mandated coverage. What freaks you assholes out is how well the law is working; how it is covering millions who were not; how it is slowing the growth of health care costs; how it is helping to reduce the deficit and how it has created hundreds of thousands of jobs.

that is simply not true. If it was working I would be the first one to admit it. But its not working. Those hit hardest are the self employed or those whose employers do not offer health plans. Those people are paying much higher premiums, higher deductibles and have less coverage than they had before. They are forced to pay for coverages that they do not want and do not need. You seem to think thats a good thing, but its not when you are the one paying.

you may think your employer is not adjusting your other benefits to cover his additional healthcare insurance costs, but I guarantee you that he is.

Group insurance policies through employers ALREADY COVERED PREGNANCY, existing illnesses and birth control....BEFORE O Care.

That's a fact.

Some did, many allowed you to opt out of maternity coverage if you did not need it. only a very few covered birth control (pills, etc).

but as I said to the other liberfool, people with employer provided insurance are not the major victims of this fiasco government takeover, self employed and young people are the ones hurt the most.

Right. Those who were without insurance are harmed by now having access to insurance.

nothing has changed for those people, they were getting free treatment before ACA and are getting free treatment after ACA. Its the people who are paying who are being financially impacted.

They were not getting free treatment. They were only getting treatment when their conditions became life threatening and they went to the ER. You keep repeating the same lie. You disregard the proof I have provided of people not getting treated but offer no proof of your own.

 

[paddymurphy]

Sure it did. If you don't have health insurance, you cannot see a doctor unless you pay.

NO, thats a lie. No one was turned away from a hospital if they needed medical care, no one was turned away from a free clinic if they needed medical care. There was no healthcare crisis in the USA.

And your link proves what you say?

here is a cite for you Obamacare: Before and After - Discover the Networks

and a pertinent quote since I am sure you won't bother to read it.


Healthcare Expenditures in the United States
* During the months and years just prior to the March 23, 2010 passage of the ACA, claims about the “skyrocketing costs” of American healthcare were ubiquitous in the media.
* But in fact, from a historical perspective, healthcare spending in the U.S. was increasing more slowly than it had at any time in half a century.

* During the years 2000 through 2010—the decade just prior to the beginning of the ACA's implementation—Americans' total expenditures on physicians and related clinical services grew at the following rates: 7.0% in 2000; 8.6% in 2001; 8.0% in 2002; 8.0% in 2003; 6.9% in 2004; 6.0% in 2005; 5.2% in 2006; 5.2% in 2007; 5.4% in 2008; 3.3% in 2009; and 2.5% in 2010.

* By way of comparison, total healthcare spending in the U.S. grew by 10.3% in the year 1970, and by 13% in 1980.
* Critics of health insurance companies have routinely accused these firms of greed and price-gouging:
* In a July 2009 press conference, President Barack Obama said: "There have been reports just over the last couple of days of insurance companies making record profits, right now. At a time when everybody's getting hammered, they're making record profits, and premiums are going up."

* A few days later, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi accused insuerers of being "immoral," and called them "the villains" in the healthcare reform battle.
* In reality, each dollar of revenue that health insurance companies take in, includes just 2.2 cents of profit. [TAO: Loc. 2079-80]

And how have healthcare expenditure increased since the ACA was passed?

who do you think is paying for the govt beaurocrats who are running it? You and me, dude. also paying are the people whose premiums and deductibles are higher.

but if you are getting it free, its great, I understand that.

I get it in exchange for the work I perform, like most Americans.

 

[Dot Com]

NO, thats a lie. No one was turned away from a hospital if they needed medical care, no one was turned away from a free clinic if they needed medical care. There was no healthcare crisis in the USA.

ROFLMAO @everybody


Medical bills prompt more than 60 percent of U.S. bankruptcies - CNN.com

PLEASE STOP!!!

 

[Dot Com]

NO, thats a lie. No one was turned away from a hospital if they needed medical care, no one was turned away from a free clinic if they needed medical care. There was no healthcare crisis in the USA.

Congrats on the most idiotic post of the month.

funny how libs consider that truth to be idiotic. must be that defective liberal gene (DRD4, look it up)

That only works if everyone in the group is PAYING into the group plan. If some are getting it free or heavily subsidized then those paying are paying for the ones getting it free.

We were talking about whether mandating the same coverage cost more or less. Odd that you don't even have a clue about what is being discussed.

Look fool, I fully understand the concept of group insurance and spreading the risk. Probably much better than you do.

If you understand it, then you are a liar, trying to mislead people. That is, after all, the only tactic you fucks used to defeat the ACA.

there are two good things in the ACA law
1. insurance companies must take people with pre-existing conditions
2. policies cannot include a lifetime maximum payment.

those two changes could have been made with a one page bill. Instead we got a monstrosity that is making billions for the insurance companies at the expense of average tax paying americans.

Again, for those getting it free, its great. for everyone else, it sucks.

You made that asinine comment earlier. Those two things were the most expensive of the reforms. Without the individual mandate and the rest of the changes, those reforms, standing alone, would have trashed the health insurance system. You would have mandated coverages without having anything in place to pay for them. Typically of your ilk, you are all for the added benefit but don't want to pay for it.

rw hate media must've told him different lol. Redfish

 

[Care4all]

Like most Americans, I have coverage through employment. It has not affected our raises. And the ACA has not affected the premiums employers pay because 98% or so of employer based health plans already provided the minimum mandated coverage. What freaks you assholes out is how well the law is working; how it is covering millions who were not; how it is slowing the growth of health care costs; how it is helping to reduce the deficit and how it has created hundreds of thousands of jobs.

that is simply not true. If it was working I would be the first one to admit it. But its not working. Those hit hardest are the self employed or those whose employers do not offer health plans. Those people are paying much higher premiums, higher deductibles and have less coverage than they had before. They are forced to pay for coverages that they do not want and do not need. You seem to think thats a good thing, but its not when you are the one paying.

you may think your employer is not adjusting your other benefits to cover his additional healthcare insurance costs, but I guarantee you that he is.

Group insurance policies through employers ALREADY COVERED PREGNANCY, existing illnesses and birth control....BEFORE O Care.

That's a fact.

Some did, many allowed you to opt out of maternity coverage if you did not need it. only a very few covered birth control (pills, etc).

but as I said to the other liberfool, people with employer provided insurance are not the major victims of this fiasco government takeover, self employed and young people are the ones hurt the most.

Right. Those who were without insurance are harmed by now having access to insurance.

nothing has changed for those people, they were getting free treatment before ACA and are getting free treatment after ACA. Its the people who are paying who are being financially impacted.

If you've gotten your health insurance through your employer, it was those working folks that were not able to get insurance, that was paying for a portion of YOUR INSURANCE the past 40 years...through the tax write off, the tax expenditure, what your employer was given as a tax write off for what he pays for your health care....

So all of those people who were working but, uninsured helped pay through their higher taxes, for YOUR BENEFIT of health insurance, health insurance they were never able to get.

YOU having to pay a little for their health insurance now, is LONG PAST DUE.

 

[paddymurphy]

Sure it did. If you don't have health insurance, you cannot see a doctor unless you pay.

NO, thats a lie. No one was turned away from a hospital if they needed medical care, no one was turned away from a free clinic if they needed medical care. There was no healthcare crisis in the USA.

And your link proves what you say?

here is a cite for you Obamacare: Before and After - Discover the Networks

and a pertinent quote since I am sure you won't bother to read it.


Healthcare Expenditures in the United States
* During the months and years just prior to the March 23, 2010 passage of the ACA, claims about the “skyrocketing costs” of American healthcare were ubiquitous in the media.
* But in fact, from a historical perspective, healthcare spending in the U.S. was increasing more slowly than it had at any time in half a century.

* During the years 2000 through 2010—the decade just prior to the beginning of the ACA's implementation—Americans' total expenditures on physicians and related clinical services grew at the following rates: 7.0% in 2000; 8.6% in 2001; 8.0% in 2002; 8.0% in 2003; 6.9% in 2004; 6.0% in 2005; 5.2% in 2006; 5.2% in 2007; 5.4% in 2008; 3.3% in 2009; and 2.5% in 2010.

* By way of comparison, total healthcare spending in the U.S. grew by 10.3% in the year 1970, and by 13% in 1980.
* Critics of health insurance companies have routinely accused these firms of greed and price-gouging:
* In a July 2009 press conference, President Barack Obama said: "There have been reports just over the last couple of days of insurance companies making record profits, right now. At a time when everybody's getting hammered, they're making record profits, and premiums are going up."

* A few days later, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi accused insuerers of being "immoral," and called them "the villains" in the healthcare reform battle.
* In reality, each dollar of revenue that health insurance companies take in, includes just 2.2 cents of profit. [TAO: Loc. 2079-80]

And how have healthcare expenditure increased since the ACA was passed?

who do you think is paying for the govt beaurocrats who are running it? You and me, dude. also paying are the people whose premiums and deductibles are higher.

but if you are getting it free, its great, I understand that.

Your website offers no authority for its claims and cites only to books and blogs by Betsy MCCaughey, a notorius liar about the ACA, and others from the far right who opposed it. You offer no objective facts from organizations that study health care like the Kaiser Foundation or others. Nothing but warmed over right wing lies.

 

[Conservative65]

that is simply not true. If it was working I would be the first one to admit it. But its not working. Those hit hardest are the self employed or those whose employers do not offer health plans. Those people are paying much higher premiums, higher deductibles and have less coverage than they had before. They are forced to pay for coverages that they do not want and do not need. You seem to think thats a good thing, but its not when you are the one paying.

you may think your employer is not adjusting your other benefits to cover his additional healthcare insurance costs, but I guarantee you that he is.

Group insurance policies through employers ALREADY COVERED PREGNANCY, existing illnesses and birth control....BEFORE O Care.

That's a fact.

Some did, many allowed you to opt out of maternity coverage if you did not need it. only a very few covered birth control (pills, etc).

but as I said to the other liberfool, people with employer provided insurance are not the major victims of this fiasco government takeover, self employed and young people are the ones hurt the most.

Right. Those who were without insurance are harmed by now having access to insurance.

nothing has changed for those people, they were getting free treatment before ACA and are getting free treatment after ACA. Its the people who are paying who are being financially impacted.

They were not getting free treatment. They were only getting treatment when their conditions became life threatening and they went to the ER. You keep repeating the same lie. You disregard the proof I have provided of people not getting treated but offer no proof of your own.

Did they pay for any of it? Do you have proof that they paid if you say yes?

 

[Conservative65]

that is simply not true. If it was working I would be the first one to admit it. But its not working. Those hit hardest are the self employed or those whose employers do not offer health plans. Those people are paying much higher premiums, higher deductibles and have less coverage than they had before. They are forced to pay for coverages that they do not want and do not need. You seem to think thats a good thing, but its not when you are the one paying.

you may think your employer is not adjusting your other benefits to cover his additional healthcare insurance costs, but I guarantee you that he is.

Group insurance policies through employers ALREADY COVERED PREGNANCY, existing illnesses and birth control....BEFORE O Care.

That's a fact.

Some did, many allowed you to opt out of maternity coverage if you did not need it. only a very few covered birth control (pills, etc).

but as I said to the other liberfool, people with employer provided insurance are not the major victims of this fiasco government takeover, self employed and young people are the ones hurt the most.

Right. Those who were without insurance are harmed by now having access to insurance.

nothing has changed for those people, they were getting free treatment before ACA and are getting free treatment after ACA. Its the people who are paying who are being financially impacted.

If you've gotten your health insurance through your employer, it was those working folks that were not able to get insurance, that was paying for a portion of YOUR INSURANCE the past 40 years...through the tax write off, the tax expenditure, what your employer was given as a tax write off for what he pays for your health care....

So all of those people who were working but, uninsured helped pay through their higher taxes, for YOUR BENEFIT of health insurance, health insurance they were never able to get.

YOU having to pay a little for their health insurance now, is LONG PAST DUE.

You assume they paid taxes while uninsured. You don't take into account that those of us who were covered were paying taxes, too.

You seem to have forgotten all of those without coverage that went to the ER for care they didn't pay for costs the rest of us more.

 

[Arianrhod]

If you've gotten your health insurance through your employer, it was those working folks that were not able to get insurance, that was paying for a portion of YOUR INSURANCE the past 40 years...through the tax write off, the tax expenditure, what your employer was given as a tax write off for what he pays for your health care....

So all of those people who were working but, uninsured helped pay through their higher taxes, for YOUR BENEFIT of health insurance, health insurance they were never able to get.

YOU having to pay a little for their health insurance now, is LONG PAST DUE.

Quoted for truth.

 

[Dot Com]

who do you think is paying for the govt beaurocrats who are running it? You and me, dude. also paying are the people whose premiums and deductibles are higher.

but if you are getting it free, its great, I understand that.

Your website offers no authority for its claims and cites only to books and blogs by Betsy MCCaughey, a notorius liar about the ACA, and others from the far right who opposed it. You offer no objective facts from organizations that study health care like the Kaiser Foundation or others. Nothing but warmed over right wing lies.

That's our Redfish

 

[Care4all]

Group insurance policies through employers ALREADY COVERED PREGNANCY, existing illnesses and birth control....BEFORE O Care.

That's a fact.

Some did, many allowed you to opt out of maternity coverage if you did not need it. only a very few covered birth control (pills, etc).

but as I said to the other liberfool, people with employer provided insurance are not the major victims of this fiasco government takeover, self employed and young people are the ones hurt the most.

Right. Those who were without insurance are harmed by now having access to insurance.

nothing has changed for those people, they were getting free treatment before ACA and are getting free treatment after ACA. Its the people who are paying who are being financially impacted.

They were not getting free treatment. They were only getting treatment when their conditions became life threatening and they went to the ER. You keep repeating the same lie. You disregard the proof I have provided of people not getting treated but offer no proof of your own.

Did they pay for any of it? Do you have proof that they paid if you say yes?

Hello? anybody in there?
Why do you think they had to later declare bankruptcy? They paid as much as they possibly could, even put the bills on their credit cards to spread out what was due, until they finally could not pay a dime more, to anyone...they went bankrupt.

 

[Arianrhod]

You seem to have forgotten all of those without coverage that went to the ER for care they didn't pay for costs the rest of us more.

Five minutes ago you were demanding proof that they didn't pay. You seem to have forgotten what you were whining about.

 

[Conservative65]

You seem to have forgotten all of those without coverage that went to the ER for care they didn't pay for costs the rest of us more.

Five minutes ago you were demanding proof that they didn't pay. You seem to have forgotten what you were whining about.

You seem to have forgotten that no one owes another person a damn thing including food, clothing, shelter, healthcare, etc. You still believe they do.

 

[Arianrhod]

You seem to have forgotten all of those without coverage that went to the ER for care they didn't pay for costs the rest of us more.

Five minutes ago you were demanding proof that they didn't pay. You seem to have forgotten what you were whining about.

You seem to have forgotten that no one owes another person a damn thing including food, clothing, shelter, healthcare, etc. You still believe they do.

Non sequitur. Do you believe people without insurance used to show up at the ER without the ability to pay or don't you?