Liberals Aren’t Liking This Newly-Discovered Photo Of The 1924 Democratic Convention…

[Rambunctious]

My main argument was the OP did not lie. So prove me wrong it should be easy.

 

[Rambunctious]

time waits for no one and no one waits for time

 

[Slash]

Interesting read;

http://www.theroot.com/yes-there-were-black-confederates-here-s-why-1790858546
Freehling is right. A few thousand blacks did indeed fight for the Confederacy. Significantly, African-American scholars from Ervin Jordan and Joseph Reidy to Juliet Walker and Henry Louis Gates Jr., editor-in-chief of The Root, have stood outside this impasse, acknowledging that a few blacks, slave and free, supported the Confederacy.


How many supported it? No one knows precisely. But by drawing on these scholars and focusing on sources written or published during the war, I estimate that between 3,000 and 6,000 served as Confederate soldiers. Another 100,000 or so blacks, mostly slaves, supported the Confederacy as laborers, servants and teamsters. They built roads, batteries and fortifications; manned munitions factories—essentially did the Confederacy’s dirty work.

What were Douglass’ sources in identifying black Confederates? One came from a Virginia fugitive who escaped to Boston shortly before the Battle of First Manassas in Virginia that summer. He saw “one regiment of 700 black men from Georgia, 1000 [men] from South Carolina, and about 1000 [men with him from] Virginia, destined for Manassas when he ran away.”

For historians these are shocking figures. But another eyewitness also observed three regiments of blacks fighting for the Confederacy at Manassas. William Henry Johnson, a free black from Connecticut, ignored the Lincoln administration’s refusal to enlist black troops and fought as an independent soldier with the 8th Connecticut Volunteer Infantry. He also wrote for the Pine and Palm, a black paper, and blamed the Union loss at Manassas partly on black Confederates: “We were defeated, routed and driven from the field. … It was not alone the white man’s victory, for it was won by slaves. Yes, the Confederates had three regiments of blacks in the field, and they maneuvered like veterans, and beat the Union men back. This is not guessing, but it is a fact.”

Interesting. Some nazi sympathizers try to say that since Jews fought for Germany in Hitler's army, he really wasn't an anti-semite. I disagree.

You would think with THOUSANDS of black combatants for the Confederacy, we would have been able to find 1 combat veteran? 1. But nope, of those thousands NOT ONE was found. Instead the entirety of this is based on a 3rd off quote "I heard someone say someone say" and 1 eyewitness vs. the 70,000 who didn't mention it.

That black Regiment from Manassas, doesn't exist in any record by the Confederacy, no pay, no veterans, no records of a single soldier. Almost every historian thinks WIlliam Henry Johnson either mistook a union black brigade or created this as a little story to push for civil rights he wanted since there was zero corraboration from either side or proof of the illegal black army. Since of the other 70,000 participants, nobody could attest to the thousands of black Confederate soldiers, no graves were ever mentioned being dug for them, not a single black veteran of that fight was ever found on the Confederate side (outside of slaves working for their generals in other roles). He's literally the only person to have seen that in a battle of 70,000 people.

And it's also odd that Virginia had black slaves fighting in the early days of the war when the Confederate Secretary of state once said "In my opinion the worst calamity that could befall us would be to gain our independence by valor of slaves instead of our own... the day that the army of Virginia allows a Negro regiment to enter their lines as soldiers, they will be degraded, ruined and disgraced". Granted of course by that time they'd had blacks in their military for 4 years you are saying???? Maybe they were just secret regiments that nobody knew about?

What's even more interesting is how the Confederacy got so desperate they passed legislation to arm slaves at the end. At the very end of the war in March of 1865 (General Lee surrendered 3 weeks later) a law was passed that blacks could enlist. Other than a small number that briefly trained in Richmond, Virginia and saw no action, no black men served openly and there is no evidence that the Richmond recruits saw the battlefield in the final weeks of the war. Of course that legislation also said “that nothing in this act shall be construed to authorize a change in the relation which the said slaves shall bear toward their owners,” aka, they were slave soldiers.

An interesting thing about that hotly contested legislation. Not one argument ever was made in the entirety of the debates that black soldiers had already been fighting. Not once. All the proof isn't in the documents DURING the civil war, or even from the mouths of those who fought in it, but rather a new creation of information in the past 30 years. If Blacks were fighting in the war, they were quite sneaky about it because they did it without Robert E. Lee, Jefferson Davis, the members of the Confederate congress or any of the white soldiers of the Confederacy or anyone from the Union knowing about it.

Tens of thousands of slaves were impressed by the government, often against the will of their owners, to help with the construction of earthworks around the cities of Richmond, Petersburg, and Atlanta. Slaves were also assigned to the construction and repair of rail lines and as workers in iron foundries and other factories producing war materiel. In the armies, they worked as teamsters, cooks, and musicians.

What can we find as actual evidence to change this over from the longheld belief to our new revised belief that blacks did fight throughout the war?

Not one grave has been discovered to have been dug for a black confederate soldier in a battle. Not one.

And the 215,000 soldiers captured by union forces? 0 blacks found there.

Not one union Soldier ever made mention of fighting black soldiers.

There were no black Confederate combat units in service during the war, meaning if they did fight, it was an intermixed race battallion... yeah.

Not one photograph of a black fighting regiment (though with photoshop and cutting out their union officers, some pictures have been made to look as such).

No documentation whatsoever exists for any black man being paid or pensioned as a Confederate soldier.

No Confederate ever references having black soldiers under his command or in his unit, although references to black laborers are common...

Even beyond the Official Records, there is no known letter, diary entry, or any other primary source in which a Confederate mentions serving with black soldiers.

In 1863 a POW swap was put on hold because the Confederacy didn't recognize black union soldiers as POW's. But 2 years earlier they were using their own blacks as soldiers? How can you do that?

 

[Slash]

Were you alive back then? How do you know what they believed and did not believe? There was no concept of a "big Government" back then. They had states rights issues as always but to say one side was liberal and the other was conservative is short sighted and foolish.

It's pretty easy to see what they believed because we have a thing called written history.

I guess the simplest way would be to look at the presidential platforms. Those have been kept since 1840. Political Party Platforms



You can find past presidents that were Republicans that I would say had a liberal platform at the start. Lincoln was one. Strong federal gov't. Social change. Large public works.

That 1824 picture. The democratic presidential stance was lower taxes, help the farmers, enforce prohibition and fight the drug problem, oppose the extension of bureaucracy, the creation of unnecessary bureaus and federal agencies and the multiplication of offices and office-holders, condemn the efforts of the republican party to nationalize the functions and duties of the states (states rights), revive the "spirit of self government", be tough on immigration, fight for personal freedoms, Increase veterans benefits, support coal and mining, end nuisance taxes...

For a while it was back and forth a bit. KKK would support conservative republicans at times, but most of the socially conservative beliefs were with the Democrats.

Look at Eisenhower. He was definitely left of Center. Major parts of his platform was:

Equal pay regardless of sex.
Protect social security
Asylum for refugees
Increase minimum wage
Federal assistance for low income families
Improve unemployment benefits to cover more people
Strengthen labor laws to make it easier to join unions.

He nominated Earl Warren (struck down porn laws, ended state laws that banned contraceptives), who was as liberal of a Supreme Court Judge as you can find.

Honestly this having to be all left or all right is kinda new. There've been times Republicans would take stances on both sides, same with Democrats and disagree with others in their own party.

 

[Rambunctious]

It's pretty easy to see what they believed because we have a thing called written history

In any conflict the victor writes the history.

 

[Syriusly]

Liberals can lead a jackass to water, but we can't make you drink the truth.

As you have repeatedly shown

You could win this debate all you need to do is tell me what the lie was...

Sorry- Pogo already won the debate earlier when he pointed out the lies- repeatedly.

Since you refuse to acknowledge the facts, now you are just trolling.

 

[Syriusly]

It's pretty easy to see what they believed because we have a thing called written history

In any conflict the victor writes the history.

Nothing prevented any Confederate from writing any history he chose to. The Confederates were a literate bunch.

 

[Slash]

In any conflict the victor writes the history.

Actually no, because we actually saved all that history from both sides. You can read the articles of secession. You can read the writings of the leaders of the Confederacy. You can read the minutes of the state congresses of southern states when they met on secession. You can read their laws, their legislation.

Saying that it isn't there is a false narrative making up some story that it was all erased somehow with magic. Nope, it's right there. Which is why I'd really encourage people to learn history from the source rather than take the lazy way.

 

[Slash]

Nothing prevented any Confederate from writing any history he chose to. The Confederates were a literate bunch.

And actually the wrote a LOT. It's just lazy to say "we don't know since only the winners write history", as you can easily see thousands of documents from the losers as well. For the most part that's what I use when writing here. THe losing sides' information.

It's that kind of laziness today that I'm worried will have people in 100 years buying into the story that the South only seceded to try and end Lincoln's secret nuclear weapons programs.

 

[Rambunctious]

Which is why I'd really encourage people to learn history from the source rather than take the lazy way.

I can't disagree with that...

 

[Rambunctious]

Nothing prevented any Confederate from writing any history he chose to. The Confederates were a literate bunch

Good point but do these writings get the same weight in the scholastic world? The victor does write the history that gets presented as fact for the classroom.

 

[Rambunctious]

Sorry- Pogo already won the debate earlier when he pointed out the lies- repeatedly.

Since you refuse to acknowledge the facts, now you are just trolling.

POGO couldn't tell me the lie either. You obviously can't as well.

 

[Faun]

Founded in 1866, the Ku Klux Klan were into almost every southern state by 1870 and became a vehicle for white southern resistance to the Republican Party. There is no changing that snowflakes! sorry!

Yes, the Christian Bible Belt was, and is, very racist. That's never changed.

 

[Faun]

Sorry- Pogo already won the debate earlier when he pointed out the lies- repeatedly.

Since you refuse to acknowledge the facts, now you are just trolling.

POGO couldn't tell me the lie either. You obviously can't as well.

Now you're lying again. Pogo highlighted several lies. Such as a dispute being led by Forney Johnston, which is a complete and utter fabrication.

 

[Pogo]

Sorry- Pogo already won the debate earlier when he pointed out the lies- repeatedly.

Since you refuse to acknowledge the facts, now you are just trolling.

POGO couldn't tell me the lie either. You obviously can't as well.

How's that search for "Forney Johnston" coming along?

Member when I sent you out to fetch that?

Any photos of an 11-year-dead cadaver at the Democratic convention?
Or perhaps in Wisconsin?

 

[Pogo]

My main argument was the OP did not lie. So prove me wrong it should be easy.

Yeah it was.

THREE WEEKS AGO.

 

[Syriusly]

Nothing prevented any Confederate from writing any history he chose to. The Confederates were a literate bunch

Good point but do these writings get the same weight in the scholastic world? The victor does write the history that gets presented as fact for the classroom.

Really? In the South?

Feel free to show to me that schools in Georgia have always just taught the Civil War fro the prospective of the victor.

 

[Syriusly]

Sorry- Pogo already won the debate earlier when he pointed out the lies- repeatedly.

Since you refuse to acknowledge the facts, now you are just trolling.

POGO couldn't tell me the lie either. You obviously can't as well.

Pogo repeatedly told you the lies- your contard inability to acknowledge the truth is not the fault of any liberal.

 

[Pogo]

You have been lying about the OP for days now. Pogo and Faun have repeatedly shown you that the OP is a lie- and you deny it.

Being the good little contard you are

The lie please dupe....and what is a contard

It's that white stuff left behind by a jet plane.

 

[Syriusly]

Founded in 1866, the Ku Klux Klan were into almost every southern state by 1870 and became a vehicle for white southern resistance to the Republican Party. There is no changing that snowflakes! sorry!

Yes, the Christian Bible Belt was, and is, very racist. That's never changed.

Well to be fair- in 1860 virtually everyone was a racist. And even in 1960, much of the United States is what we would consider to be racist.

The modern South according to the Contards is composed entirely of the non-racist whites- all Republicans- and the white and black Democrats- all racists.

But in reality the modern South is far less racist than it was even 20 years ago, let alone how it was in 1960- just like the entire U.S. is- the whining of the snowflake contards to the contrary.

I just get tired of the South being misrepresented by both sides.

Meanwhile- the KKK was founded by Southern White Christian Conservatives.

The only thing that has changed is that its no longer exclusively Southern.