Leave the Tax Rates Alone

[8537]

Raising taxes would, and again this is being extremely generous, raise at most $3 trillion annually. This number is based on raising taxes while the economy is growing, which is counter-intuitive.

The $1 trillion in cuts that has been 'proposed' and the higher taxes isn't going to solve a $14,000,000,000,000--and growing--deficit. Just isn't.

To continue with you the Stimulus Act did not prevent economic collapse. How do we know this? Because, by order from the Supreme Court, we know where the majority of that money went. Obama employed fear artistically leading up to the Stimulus Act telling anyone that would listen that if we didn't grant the Federal Reserve the unfettered power to spend hundreds of billions with ZERO oversight the sky would fall.

Now you can try to prove a negative, but that is a waste of time. Instead let's look at the promises Obama made about the Stimulus Act. Shovel ready jobs. BS Investing in infrastructure BS. Keeping unemployment down BS. Everything this president said was a lie, and he's joking about it.

The Stimulus Act didn't prevent economic collapse, unless you believe giving Goldman Sacs tens of billions at .01% interest rate achieved that.

Also, your president is ensuring that the unprecedented billion dollar campaign is going to be a norm now. The unlimited super pact organizations are being well exploited by the Democratic Party. Pot and kettle right?

You are mixing TARP and ARRA. TARP was Bush-era monetary policy. ARRA was Obama-era fiscal policy.

No I am not. The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act is what I was talking about. If you'd like I can post the congressional hearing where Ben Bernanke said that he didn't have to tell Congress where money from the ARRA went. Hell I can post the video of Obama making every single one of those broken promises.

Ben Bernanke did not control ARRA money. Bernanke played a part in the distribution of TARP funds, not ARRA funds. Bernanke has no role in fiscal policy.

Again, you are confusing ARRA and TARP.

 

[NYcarbineer]

The WSJ this AM has a super editorial where they skewer many myths we see repeated here daily. The biggest is that the Bush tax cuts caused this deficit (they didnt). Or that we need higher tax rates to close the deficiit (we dont).
The current tax structure has provided a return of 18.5% of GDP. That is historically the optimum amount. Returns are lower now because of slow growth and lingering recession.
Review & Outlook: Obama's Real Revenue Problem - WSJ.com

President Obama was right about his audacity, if not always the hope. Six months after he agreed to a bipartisan extension of current tax rates, he is now insisting on tax increases as part of the debt-ceiling talks. At his press conference yesterday he repeated this demand, as well as his recent talking point that taxes are lower than they've been in generations. Let's examine that claim because it explains Washington's real revenue problem—slow economic growth.

Mr. Obama has a point that tax receipts are near historic lows, but the cause isn't tax rates that are too low. As the nearby table shows, as recently as 2007 the current tax structure raised 18.5% of GDP in revenue, which is slightly above the modern historical average. Even in 2008, when the economy grew not at all, federal tax receipts still came in at 17.5% of the economy.

Today's revenue problem is the result of the mediocre economic recovery. Tax collections in 2009 fell below 15% of GDP, the lowest level since 1950. But remarkably, tax receipts stayed that low even in the recovery year of 2010. So far this fiscal year tax receipts are growing at a healthy 10% clip, so the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) January estimate of 14.8% of GDP is probably low. We suspect revenues will be closer to 16%, but even that would be the weakest revenue rebound from any recession in 50 years, and far below the average tax take since 1970 of 18.2%.

more at the source.

So your position is 'leave tax rates alone"?

That would mean you oppose Paul Ryan's budget, which cuts the top rate to 25% and cuts the corporate tax rate, among others.

Ryan does not 'leave tax rates alone'...

 

[8537]

The solution to this problem is a thriving economy. It isn't a coincidence that all states that are showing positive economic growth are red states.

I live in the bluest state in the nation - one of our Senators is an avowed socialist, for Gods sake, and he won by a landslide.

our unemployment rates is 5%.

Can you tell me the top ten states for economic growth? Google it.

I'd rather BEA it. The top quintile in 2010 (in no specific order):

Oregon
New York
North Dakota
Illinois
Kentucky
Tennessee
West Virginia
North Carolina
Vermont
Massachusetts
New Jersey.

Not exactly a list of the 10 most red states.

 

[WillowTree]

Spoken like a true communist.

Spoken like a Corporatist....

What you support is not capitalism if you don't want the tax system to be more fair.

What do you communists plan to replace corporations with?

 

[Nic_Driver]

It's immoral to redistribute so much of our nation’s wealth upwards and then cut services to the poor and needy to make up for that same flow of capital to those who didn't even need it.

The soul of America is turning for the worse.

 

[WillowTree]

It's immoral to redistribute so much of our nation’s wealth upwards and then cut services to the poor and needy to make up for that same flow of capital to those who didn't even need it.

The soul of America is turning for the worse.

So what do you plan to replace corporations with? Be precise.

 

[Google]

You are mixing TARP and ARRA. TARP was Bush-era monetary policy. ARRA was Obama-era fiscal policy.

No I am not. The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act is what I was talking about. If you'd like I can post the congressional hearing where Ben Bernanke said that he didn't have to tell Congress where money from the ARRA went. Hell I can post the video of Obama making every single one of those broken promises.

Ben Bernanke did not control ARRA money. Bernanke played a part in the distribution of TARP funds, not ARRA funds. Bernanke has no role in fiscal policy.

Again, you are confusing ARRA and TARP.

Let me ask you where did the hundreds of billions for Stimulus come from? Who is collecting the interest from that money?

 

[Google]

I live in the bluest state in the nation - one of our Senators is an avowed socialist, for Gods sake, and he won by a landslide.

our unemployment rates is 5%.

Can you tell me the top ten states for economic growth? Google it.

I'd rather BEA it. The top quintile in 2010 (in no specific order):

Oregon
New York
North Dakota
Illinois
Kentucky
Tennessee
West Virginia
North Carolina
Vermont
Massachusetts
New Jersey.

Not exactly a list of the 10 most red states.

What is your source?

Texas is number one in economic growth--fact--so I'm not sure where you got this. Perhaps you should Google it.

 

[8537]

It's immoral to redistribute so much of our nation’s wealth upwards and then cut services to the poor and needy to make up for that same flow of capital to those who didn't even need it.

The soul of America is turning for the worse.

So what do you plan to replace corporations with? Be precise.

Fully liable entities and ownership.

 

[8537]

Can you tell me the top ten states for economic growth? Google it.

I'd rather BEA it. The top quintile in 2010 (in no specific order):

Oregon
New York
North Dakota
Illinois
Kentucky
Tennessee
West Virginia
North Carolina
Vermont
Massachusetts
New Jersey.

Not exactly a list of the 10 most red states.

What is your source?

Texas is number one in economic growth--fact--so I'm not sure where you got this. Perhaps you should Google it.

My source is growth in real GDP, 2009-2010 from the US Bureau of Economic Analysis.

 

[8537]

No I am not. The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act is what I was talking about. If you'd like I can post the congressional hearing where Ben Bernanke said that he didn't have to tell Congress where money from the ARRA went. Hell I can post the video of Obama making every single one of those broken promises.

Ben Bernanke did not control ARRA money. Bernanke played a part in the distribution of TARP funds, not ARRA funds. Bernanke has no role in fiscal policy.

Again, you are confusing ARRA and TARP.

Let me ask you where did the hundreds of billions for Stimulus come from? Who is collecting the interest from that money?

Through the sale of US treasury notes and bonds. The interest is being collected by the bondholders, those that bought the notes.

 

[bripat9643]

Yeah... the Wall Street Journal has no self interest in taxes, does it? Look at their audience, look at who they are trying to sell papers to. Furthermore... look who owns the newspaper.

And tics on the ass of society like you have no interest in raising taxes?

 

[Google]

I'd rather BEA it. The top quintile in 2010 (in no specific order):

Oregon
New York
North Dakota
Illinois
Kentucky
Tennessee
West Virginia
North Carolina
Vermont
Massachusetts
New Jersey.

Not exactly a list of the 10 most red states.

What is your source?

Texas is number one in economic growth--fact--so I'm not sure where you got this. Perhaps you should Google it.

My source is growth in real GDP, 2009-2010 from the US Bureau of Economic Analysis.

Where did you get this information? Show me where the US Bureau of Economic Analysis left out Texas from the top ten growth in real GDP from 2009-2010. SHOW ME!!!

 

[Google]

Ben Bernanke did not control ARRA money. Bernanke played a part in the distribution of TARP funds, not ARRA funds. Bernanke has no role in fiscal policy.

Again, you are confusing ARRA and TARP.

Let me ask you where did the hundreds of billions for Stimulus come from? Who is collecting the interest from that money?

Through the sale of US treasury notes and bonds. The interest is being collected by the bondholders, those that bought the notes.

Bondholders like the Federal Reserve itself?

 

[bripat9643]

So what do you plan to replace corporations with? Be precise.

Fully liable entities and ownership.

So if Walmart breaks a law, you're going to send all 400,000 employees to jail? Do you imagine a single person can own a company like Exxon or Boeing?

 

[bripat9643]

Let me ask you where did the hundreds of billions for Stimulus come from? Who is collecting the interest from that money?

Through the sale of US treasury notes and bonds. The interest is being collected by the bondholders, those that bought the notes.

Bondholders like the Federal Reserve itself?

The Federal Reserve does not hold bonds. It sells them.

 

[8537]

Let me ask you where did the hundreds of billions for Stimulus come from? Who is collecting the interest from that money?

Through the sale of US treasury notes and bonds. The interest is being collected by the bondholders, those that bought the notes.

Bondholders like the Federal Reserve itself?

Well yes, the member banks of the Federal Reserve do buy treasuries. They also buy debt instruments from other countries. So do the central bank affiliates in many other nations.

Other purchasers include asset managers, individuals, and corporations.

 

[Google]

Ben Bernanke did not control ARRA money. Bernanke played a part in the distribution of TARP funds, not ARRA funds. Bernanke has no role in fiscal policy.

Again, you are confusing ARRA and TARP.

Let me ask you where did the hundreds of billions for Stimulus come from? Who is collecting the interest from that money?

Through the sale of US treasury notes and bonds. The interest is being collected by the bondholders, those that bought the notes.

You are either misinformed or just wrong. The money that went to fund the Stimulus Act was not raised through the issuance of bonds, but by the monetary policies of the Federal Reserve. The FED has, and since stopped, been printing money out of thin air and buying US bonds.

 

[8537]

Through the sale of US treasury notes and bonds. The interest is being collected by the bondholders, those that bought the notes.

Bondholders like the Federal Reserve itself?

The Federal Reserve does not hold bonds. It sells them.

The Fed is currently holding about 1.6T in treasury notes, bonds and bills (that it purchased/s from Goldman Sachs)

 

[Google]

Through the sale of US treasury notes and bonds. The interest is being collected by the bondholders, those that bought the notes.

Bondholders like the Federal Reserve itself?

Well yes, the member banks of the Federal Reserve do buy treasuries. They also buy debt instruments from other countries. So do the central bank affiliates in many other nations.

Other purchasers include asset managers, individuals, and corporations.

No, the FED does not buy treasuries. Historically it has not been done. Not until recently. Federal Reserve to buy $600 billion in bonds as hedge against deflation - CSMonitor.com