Leading GOP Candidate a Cult Member!

[JoeB131]

People said the same about Kennedy. A Catholic could never be President, he'd hand the country over to Rome, blah blah blah. Did he? No. No more would Romney. There are decisions of Romney's that I am not overly thrilled with, but his faith is not one of them. I would vote for Romney as President because - economically - he's smart. And (insert the deity of your choice) knows, we need that badly.

Wow, this tired argument again. Never get tired of seeing this one. Completely took this fallacy apart...

http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/188357-romney-and-jfk.html

I will sacrifice my personal desire for a real strong conservative President in the best interests of the country. My personal conservative beliefs are mine - I have no right to force those beliefs on the country. Personally, I think that is where many of us go wrong, we confuse our own personal beliefs with the will of the nation.

So what you are admitting is that conservatism is such a weak philosophy that the ONLY way you can sell it is by finding a squishy, vanilla oppurtunist who checks every speech with a focus group.

And you think this is the case even running against the weakest president with the worst economic record of our lifetimes.

All you do is hope that no one points out that he belongs to a whackadoodle cult with crazy beliefs and a slimy history that involves child brides and various scams.

 

[Valerie]

People said the same about Kennedy. A Catholic could never be President, he'd hand the country over to Rome, blah blah blah. Did he? No. No more would Romney. There are decisions of Romney's that I am not overly thrilled with, but his faith is not one of them. I would vote for Romney as President because - economically - he's smart. And (insert the deity of your choice) knows, we need that badly.

Wow, this tired argument again. Never get tired of seeing this one. Completely took this fallacy apart...

http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/188357-romney-and-jfk.html

I will sacrifice my personal desire for a real strong conservative President in the best interests of the country. My personal conservative beliefs are mine - I have no right to force those beliefs on the country. Personally, I think that is where many of us go wrong, we confuse our own personal beliefs with the will of the nation.

So what you are admitting is that conservatism is such a weak philosophy that the ONLY way you can sell it is by finding a squishy, vanilla oppurtunist who checks every speech with a focus group.

And you think this is the case even running against the weakest president with the worst economic record of our lifetimes.





All you do is hope that no one points out that he belongs to a whackadoodle cult with crazy beliefs and a slimy history that involves child brides and various scams.

You notice when they can't actually refute what you've said, they attack you personally?

Hmmmm.

 

[JoeB131]

All you do is hope that no one points out that he belongs to a whackadoodle cult with crazy beliefs and a slimy history that involves child brides and various scams.

You notice when they can't actually refute what you've said, they attack you personally?

Hmmmm.

Didn't attack any person personally, I attacked a religion's history.

That you can't make that distinction is kind of telling.

For the record -

Child Brides-

Fanny Alger- age 16
The Wives of Joseph Smith - Fanny Alger

Helen Kimbal
The Wives of Joseph Smith - Helen Mar Kimball

Nancy Winchester
The Wives of Joseph Smith - Nancy Winchester

How about those scams? Well, there were a few of those, too.

Kirtland Safety Society - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Arrest Records of Joseph Smith from 1826 to 1830 are Rediscovered and Given to the Mormon Church

Hey, you want to talk about the Mountain Meadows Massacre? You know, where Mormons lured 140 innocent people into a trap and executed them in 1857?

And the Mainstream Media ain't going to tell you about this now. THey are going to wait until you guys nominate Romney, and then they are going to drop these bombs on you.

 

[Seawytch]

We all know that the Constitution says:

The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.

But that doesn't mean the social conservatives will vote for Romney. He IS, however, very likely to be the GOP nominee. What will those social conservatives do I wonder?

What's even more shocking? Social Democrats probably won't vote for him either.

They might...especially if they recall THIS Mitt Romney:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9IJUkYUbvI]The Real Romney? - YouTube[/ame]

(you know...the one that was MORE pro choice and MORE pro gay rights than Ted Kennedy)

Or the Romney that went after corporate loopholes...

Seeking Taxes, Romney Went After Business

 

[JoeB131]

That Mitt Romney also committed the ultimate blasphemy for Republicans-

PolitiFact | Hitting him where it hurts

The Romney admission in question, like much else Romney has tried to bury in his past, came in a 1994 Senate debate when Romney faced Edward Kennedy. The topic was economics. Kennedy said: "And under your economic program, under the program of Mr. Reagan and Mr. Bush, we saw the growth in terms of the unemployment, the growth in the number of children living in poverty, the growth in terms of those children out of wedlock."

Romney responded: "I was an independent during the time of Reagan-Bush. I'm not trying to return to Reagan-Bush."

 

[Valerie]

All you do is hope that no one points out that he belongs to a whackadoodle cult with crazy beliefs and a slimy history that involves child brides and various scams.

You notice when they can't actually refute what you've said, they attack you personally?

Hmmmm.

Didn't attack any person personally, I attacked a religion's history.

That you can't make that distinction is kind of telling.

For the record -

Child Brides-

Fanny Alger- age 16
The Wives of Joseph Smith - Fanny Alger

Helen Kimbal
The Wives of Joseph Smith - Helen Mar Kimball

Nancy Winchester
The Wives of Joseph Smith - Nancy Winchester

How about those scams? Well, there were a few of those, too.

Kirtland Safety Society - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Arrest Records of Joseph Smith from 1826 to 1830 are Rediscovered and Given to the Mormon Church

Hey, you want to talk about the Mountain Meadows Massacre? You know, where Mormons lured 140 innocent people into a trap and executed them in 1857?

And the Mainstream Media ain't going to tell you about this now. THey are going to wait until you guys nominate Romney, and then they are going to drop these bombs on you.

You are attacking Mitt by attributing those characteristics to him personally while not addressing the real issue as it relates to his potential presidency... Just after you got finished chiding Cali girl which is a riot!

That you assume rational voters need to wait for the media to tell them that Mitt Romney is a Mormon is kind of telling...

 

[JoeB131]

You are attacking Mitt by attributing those characteristics to him personally while not addressing the real issue as it relates to his potential presidency... Just after you got finished chiding Cali girl which is a riot!

That you assume rational voters need to wait for the media to tell them that Mitt Romney is a Mormon is kind of telling...

Romney has chosen to stay in that cult. So, yeah, I can fairly judge him on what other members of that cult have done through their history. Either he believes the same batshit crazy stuff, or he's going along with the batshit to advance himself. Either disqualifies him as far as I'm concerned.

And, yeah, when you run into some of those "rational voters", let me know. Most Americans are incredibly stupid. American Idol is the most popular show on television. We elected Barack Obama because he talks pretty. We've had 60 years of corporate spoon-feeding and we jump the way they tell us to jump. Democracy was over a long time ago, sorry you missed it.

By the time the Mainstream Media is done with Mitt Romney and the Mormons, people will be chasing off those white shirted missionaries with pitchforks.

 

[Article 15]

So.... I get that Romney being a Mormon is an instant disqualifier for a certain segment of the population but has his religion ever interfered with the way he has governed in the past?

If so, how?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Not too worry.

Mainstream Christians think that fringe evangelical and fundamentalist denominations are cults.

It's all good, Jonah.

 

[IndependntLogic]

Most religions say their way is the only way. Nothing new here, been that way for thousands of years.

By the way I bet their are one or two christian democrats somewhere in this world

I'm sure there are millions. Not sure why you think they'd be crazy for being both Christian and Dem though.
Unless that's for me, for specifying the GOP. In which case, you caught the fact that the pastor was at a GOP event, speaking about GOP candidates, right?
Also, I don't recall Dems using their religion as a platform or the other party candidates religion as a basis of attack. That is almost exclusively a GOP tactic.

That is because, as usual, you suffer from not paying attention to the real world, and you ignore anything that contradicts you "independent" viewpoint.

Politically, more Democrats than Republicans say they would be less likely to support a Mormon candidate. Liberal Democrats stand out, with 41% saying they would be less likely to support a Mormon candidate. Only about a quarter or fewer in other groups say this.

Section 2: Candidate Traits and Experience | Pew Research Center for the People and the Press

LOL! My puppy! Following your master as always eh? Boy I sure got under your skin, didn't I? Poor little thing. One little spanking and now you follow my every thread & post, desperate to find a way to contradict me.
Okay junior, show me a few recent examples of Dems using the ol' "Vote for me - I'm a Christian!" strategy from the 2010 elections or hell, even go back to 08 if you like. What nothing? You're full of shot again? You're just playing the petty little contrarian again? Yeah. We knew that.
(Junior will now do what he always does: at best, present some single obscure reference from who knows when or as usual - dodge, change the subject, sling a few petty insults, Cut & Run)

 

[IndependntLogic]

I don't recall you demonstrating 'independent logic' but you claim it anyway. Go figure.

Um yeah ooh impressive. I don't hesitate to criticize ConservaRepublitarians any more than I do Obama or Dems. But because I don't agree with the whackjobs on everything.... I'm a Liberal or "not Independent".

Funny, I don't recall you addressing the topic here. On on a few other threads where all you have to say is "Oooh, you criticized MY side this time! I'm gonna whine about how you must not be Indenpendent!!!"
It's okay. Stick with the petty bs and avoid the topics. It's what you have to work with.

What topic? Some idiotic pastor says something about 'cults'. So fucking what? You care. OK. I don't. I am, however, interested in your understanding of the word 'logic'.

Twit.

LOL! The guy represents and influences over 30 million voters but I can see where you wouldn't be able to "connect the dots"
I was under the impression people came to discuss current events. But then I see that cute and oh so accurate little self-description of yours. 100% eh? Yeah that seems accurate.
Have a nice day there, chubby

 

[JakeStarkey]

Should Romney survive the primaries and convention, emerging as the GOP candidate, watch the party leaders and faithful jump with both me on the social values cultists of the evangelicals and fundamentalists to get in line.

 

[IndependntLogic]

Should Romney survive the primaries and convention, emerging as the GOP candidate, watch the party leaders and faithful jump with both me on the social values cultists of the evangelicals and fundamentalists to get in line.

Well I hope they do! I would vote for Romney or better yet, Cain in a heartbeat. Obama is a failure. We need an upgrade.

 

[JoeB131]

Should Romney survive the primaries and convention, emerging as the GOP candidate, watch the party leaders and faithful jump with both me on the social values cultists of the evangelicals and fundamentalists to get in line.

Maybe, maybe not.

BUt they won't do so enthusastically...

If Romney is the nominee, we get four more years of Obama. Hispanics, women, evangelicals, and anyone who gets dirt under his fingernails will be repulsed by this character.

What I've noticed is that when I've been enthusiastic about a GOP candidate, he wins. Reagan, Bush-41 the first time, Bush-43. When I've been disappointed, the GOP Candidate loses. Because if I can't get excited about a GOP Candidate, how can I expect others to.

Romney would be the first time I wouldn't vote for the GOP candidate if he wins the nomination. (Although I was sorely tempted to vote for Perot in 1992. I even considered Clinton for about a week, until I realized how "slick" he was. )

 

[JakeStarkey]

Hispanics and womens will vote dems generally more than pubs.

 

[JoeB131]

Hispanics and womens will vote dems generally more than pubs.

Why, yes, Jake. Yes they do.

And Democrats have won FOUR out of the last FIVE popular Presidential votes. (Sorry, they did get more votes in 2000. Only because of a bizarre 18th century anamoly and his brother cheating did Bush get in in 2000.) Because women and Hispanics tipped the balance for them.

So obviously, the way to WIN in 2012 is to get more women and Hispanics voting on our side.

And we ain't going to do it with a guy who belongs to a cult that thinks women should be happy as wives and dark skin is a curse from God.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

People should keep the hocus pocus portions of their faith to themselves, if only to keep from making fools of themselves.

You should keep all of your comments to yourself for the same reason.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute--where no Catholic prelate would tell the President (should he be Catholic) how to act, and no Protestant minister would tell his parishioners for whom to vote--where no church or church school is granted any public funds or political preference--and where no man is denied public office merely because his religion differs from the President who might appoint him or the people who might elect him.

I believe in an America that is officially neither Catholic, Protestant nor Jewish--where no public official either requests or accepts instructions on public policy from the Pope, the National Council of Churches or any other ecclesiastical source--where no religious body seeks to impose its will directly or indirectly upon the general populace or the public acts of its officials--and where religious liberty is so indivisible that an act against one church is treated as an act against all.

For while this year it may be a Catholic against whom the finger of suspicion is pointed, in other years it has been, and may someday be again, a Jew--or a Quaker--or a Unitarian--or a Baptist. It was Virginia's harassment of Baptist preachers, for example, that helped lead to Jefferson's statute of religious freedom. Today I may be the victim--but tomorrow it may be you--until the whole fabric of our harmonious society is ripped at a time of great national peril.

Finally, I believe in an America where religious intolerance will someday end--where all men and all churches are treated as equal--where every man has the same right to attend or not attend the church of his choice--where there is no Catholic vote, no anti-Catholic vote, no bloc voting of any kind--and where Catholics, Protestants and Jews, at both the lay and pastoral level, will refrain from those attitudes of disdain and division which have so often marred their works in the past, and promote instead the American ideal of brotherhood.

That is the kind of America in which I believe. And it represents the kind of Presidency in which I believe--a great office that must neither be humbled by making it the instrument of any one religious group nor tarnished by arbitrarily withholding its occupancy from the members of any one religious group. I believe in a President whose religious views are his own private affair, neither imposed by him upon the nation or imposed by the nation upon him as a condition to holding that office.


Read more: John F Kennedy speech - I Believe in an America Where the Separation of Church and State is Absolute - Beliefnet.com

What does this have to with some idiot saying Romney is a member of a cult.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I'm sure there are millions. Not sure why you think they'd be crazy for being both Christian and Dem though.
Unless that's for me, for specifying the GOP. In which case, you caught the fact that the pastor was at a GOP event, speaking about GOP candidates, right?
Also, I don't recall Dems using their religion as a platform or the other party candidates religion as a basis of attack. That is almost exclusively a GOP tactic.

That is because, as usual, you suffer from not paying attention to the real world, and you ignore anything that contradicts you "independent" viewpoint.

Politically, more Democrats than Republicans say they would be less likely to support a Mormon candidate. Liberal Democrats stand out, with 41% saying they would be less likely to support a Mormon candidate. Only about a quarter or fewer in other groups say this.

Section 2: Candidate Traits and Experience | Pew Research Center for the People and the Press

LOL! My puppy! Following your master as always eh? Boy I sure got under your skin, didn't I? Poor little thing. One little spanking and now you follow my every thread & post, desperate to find a way to contradict me.
Okay junior, show me a few recent examples of Dems using the ol' "Vote for me - I'm a Christian!" strategy from the 2010 elections or hell, even go back to 08 if you like. What nothing? You're full of shot again? You're just playing the petty little contrarian again? Yeah. We knew that.
(Junior will now do what he always does: at best, present some single obscure reference from who knows when or as usual - dodge, change the subject, sling a few petty insults, Cut & Run)

Moving the goalposts now? Doesn't matter, all it proves is that you do not pay attention.

"I think my public service is part of that effort to express my Christian faith," he said.Only about a third of Americans believe the president is a Christian, a Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life revealed last month. Last year, nearly half held that perception. Meanwhile, some (18 percent) say Obama is a Muslim and the rest do not know his religion.
Following the release of the poll, the White House and several pastors who advise Obama defended the president's faith and assured the public that he is committed to Christ. Given the increasing misperception, Longwood, Fla., Pastor Joel C. Hunter recommended that the White House be more public about what Obama does to be an active Christian.

Obama Speaks of His Christian Faith, Jesus Christ, Christian News

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Um yeah ooh impressive. I don't hesitate to criticize ConservaRepublitarians any more than I do Obama or Dems. But because I don't agree with the whackjobs on everything.... I'm a Liberal or "not Independent".

Funny, I don't recall you addressing the topic here. On on a few other threads where all you have to say is "Oooh, you criticized MY side this time! I'm gonna whine about how you must not be Indenpendent!!!"
It's okay. Stick with the petty bs and avoid the topics. It's what you have to work with.

What topic? Some idiotic pastor says something about 'cults'. So fucking what? You care. OK. I don't. I am, however, interested in your understanding of the word 'logic'.

Twit.

LOL! The guy represents and influences over 30 million voters but I can see where you wouldn't be able to "connect the dots"
I was under the impression people came to discuss current events. But then I see that cute and oh so accurate little self-description of yours. 100% eh? Yeah that seems accurate.
Have a nice day there, chubby

This is a politics board, not a current events board.