Lawyer: Lesbians’ assault on gay man can’t be hate crime

[Ravi]

Why did YOU try to say something I clearly did not say?

I'm pretty sure my English was clear.

No, it is still not clear.

I still do not know whether you believe the same penalty should apply to vandalism whether it is done as an immature prank or whether it is done to terrorize a family because of their color.

Your language here very much sounds as if you do not believe the reason behind the intentional breaking of the window should be taken into consideration:

No harm? For the exact same crime, but for the emotion of the perpetrator, they are punished more?

Thought crimes? How Orwellian.

If the result of the vandalism is the same- why does it matter?

Why are people convicted of terrorism?

I mean, seriously, what is the difference between terrorism and hate crime?

 

[Ravi]

btw, si modo's whining is pretty boring.

just saying.

Oh, yeah, neg me again, twit. And then go fuck your whiny ass.

boo hoo.

 

[Si modo]

btw, si modo's whining is pretty boring.

just saying.

Oh, yeah, neg me again, twit. And then go fuck your whiny ass.

boo hoo.

Whining about a neg.

Cowardly whiner.

 

[Ravi]

btw, si modo's whining is pretty boring.

just saying.

Oh, yeah, neg me again, twit. And then go fuck your whiny ass.

boo hoo.

Whining about a neg.

Cowardly whiner.

Yes, you are.

 

[Sky Dancer]

No, it is still not clear.

I still do not know whether you believe the same penalty should apply to vandalism whether it is done as an immature prank or whether it is done to terrorize a family because of their color.

Your language here very much sounds as if you do not believe the reason behind the intentional breaking of the window should be taken into consideration:

If the result of the vandalism is the same- why does it matter?

Why are people convicted of terrorism?

I mean, seriously, what is the difference between terrorism and hate crime?

Good question. Terrorism is hate crime.

 

[Si modo]

btw, si modo's whining is pretty boring.

just saying.

Oh, yeah, neg me again, twit. And then go fuck your whiny ass.

boo hoo.

Whining about a neg.

Cowardly whiner.

Yes, you are.

As I've said before, one would think that eventually you would strive for more than ignorant and dishonest.

Maybe you need to find another vet to mock.

 

[manifold]

No, it is still not clear.

I still do not know whether you believe the same penalty should apply to vandalism whether it is done as an immature prank or whether it is done to terrorize a family because of their color.

Your language here very much sounds as if you do not believe the reason behind the intentional breaking of the window should be taken into consideration:

If the result of the vandalism is the same- why does it matter?

Why are people convicted of terrorism?

I mean, seriously, what is the difference between terrorism and hate crime?

Excellent point Ravi. More reason why we don't need 'hate' crime laws. Just charge them with terrorism. That would be far less intellectually offensive, if at all.

 

[del]

Three women identified by their lawyers as lesbians were arraigned yesterday on a hate crime charge for allegedly beating a gay man at the Forest Hills T station in an unusual case that experts say exposes the law’s flawed logic.

“My guess is that no sane jury would convict them under those circumstances, but what this really demonstrates is the idiocy of the hate-crime legislation,” said civil liberties lawyer Harvey Silverglate. “If you beat someone up, you’re guilty of assault and battery of a human being. Period. The idea of trying to break down human beings into categories is doomed to failure.”

Prosecutors and the ACLU of Massachusetts said no matter the defendants’ sexual orientation, they can still face the crime of assault and battery with intent to intimidate, which carries up to a 10-year prison sentence, by using hateful language.

“Someone who is Jewish can be anti-Semitic,” said ACLU staff attorney Sarah Wunsch. “The mere fact that someone is a member of the same class doesn’t mean they could not be motivated by hatred for their very own group.”


Lawyer: Lesbians’ assault on gay man can’t be hate crime - BostonHerald.com

Thought Crime is so much more fun and empowering to the totalitarian mind set, huh.

Let's fill our over crowded prisons for ten year terms because we have a bigger problem with why people do wrong, than with the level of harm or offense.


Shit, why stop there. We need Reeducation Camps outside of the Higher Education Models.

But the reasons WHY someone commits a crime can be significant in determining the level of harm or offense... That is the whole point.

is someone more dead if i murder them because i hate them than if i murder them for money? is the crime more heinous?

 

[del]

Now we're devolving into semantics.

Intent matters.

Law which did not take intent into consideration would be a travesty.

Law need not take intent into consideration, that's the domain of judge and jury IMO.

 

[Amelia]

Thought Crime is so much more fun and empowering to the totalitarian mind set, huh.

Let's fill our over crowded prisons for ten year terms because we have a bigger problem with why people do wrong, than with the level of harm or offense.


Shit, why stop there. We need Reeducation Camps outside of the Higher Education Models.

But the reasons WHY someone commits a crime can be significant in determining the level of harm or offense... That is the whole point.

is someone more dead if i murder them because i hate them than if i murder them for money? is the crime more heinous?

Framing the argument on this end of the spectrum isn't very useful. The particular type of malice which motivated a murder isn't as significant when someone is going to be spending the rest of their life in prison no matter what it was which motivated them.

It makes a much bigger difference on the other end of the spectrum - the one where someone who played his cards right could be a one-man KKK raining terror down on minorities in his community and never serve a day in jail if he was savvy about which crimes he chose to commit.

 

[del]

But the reasons WHY someone commits a crime can be significant in determining the level of harm or offense... That is the whole point.

is someone more dead if i murder them because i hate them than if i murder them for money? is the crime more heinous?

Framing the argument on this end of the spectrum isn't very useful. The particular type of malice which motivated a murder isn't as significant when someone is going to be spending the rest of their life in prison no matter what it was which motivated them.

It makes a much bigger difference on the other end of the spectrum - the one where someone who played his cards right could be a one-man KKK raining terror down on minorities in his community and never serve a day in jail if he was savvy about which crimes he chose to commit.

really?

i think it's very useful in pointing out the ludicrous nature of hate crime laws.

your mythical rock thrower dragged into court around the fourth or fifth time for throwing rocks through blacks' (or whites' or asians') windows would find that penalties escalate with repetitive anti social behavior and be punished appropriately.

the window is no more or less broken because of what the person throwing the rock feels, just as the murder victim is no more or less dead.

 

[Valerie]

Now we're devolving into semantics.

Intent matters.

Law which did not take intent into consideration would be a travesty.

Law need not take intent into consideration, that's the domain of judge and jury IMO.

Intent is a mental attitude with which an individual acts, and therefore it cannot ordinarily be directly proved but must be inferred from surrounding facts and circumstances. Intent refers only to the state of mind with which the act is done or omitted. It differs from motive, which is what prompts a person to act or to fail to act. For example, suppose Billy calls Amy names and Amy throws a snowball at him. Amy's intent is to hit Billy with a snowball. Her motive may be to stop Billy's taunts.

The legal importance of what an individual intended depends on the particular area of law.


intent legal definition of intent. intent synonyms by the Free Online Law Dictionary.


Specific Intent


The mental purpose, aim, or design to accomplish a specific harm or result by acting in a manner prohibited by law.

The term specific intent is commonly used in criminal and Tort Law to designate a special state of mind that is required, along with a physical act, to constitute certain crimes or torts. Specific intent is usually interpreted to mean intentionally or knowingly. Common-law Larceny, for example, requires both the physical act of taking and carrying away the property of another and the mental element of intent to steal the property. Similarly, common-law Burglary requires breaking and entering into the dwelling of another with an intent to commit a felony therein. These crimes and others that require a specific-intent element are called specific-intent crimes and are distinguished from general-intent crimes. General-intent crimes require only a showing that the defendant intended to do the act prohibited by law, not that the defendant intended the precise harm or the precise result that occurred.

Courts have defined specific intent as the subjective desire or knowledge that the prohibited result will occur (People v. Owens, 131 Mich. App. 76, 345 N.W.2d 904 [1983]). Intent and motive are commonly confused, but they are distinct principles and differentiated in the law. Motive is the cause or reason that prompts a person to act or fail to act. Intent refers only to the state of mind with which the act is done or omitted. Because intent is a state of mind, it can rarely be proved with direct evidence and ordinarily must be inferred from the facts of the case. Evidence of intent is always admissible to prove a specific-intent crime, but evidence of motive is only admissible if it tends to help prove or negate the element of intent.

Courts generally allow a wide range of direct and Circumstantial Evidence to be introduced at trial in order to prove the difficult element of criminal or tortious intent. In addition, the doctrine of presumed intent may be helpful in proving specific intent because it holds individuals accountable for all the Natural and Probable Consequences of their acts.

Specific Intent legal definition of Specific Intent. Specific Intent synonyms by the Free Online Law Dictionary.

Motive

An idea, belief, or emotion that impels a person to act in accordance with that state of mind.


Motive is usually used in connection with Criminal Law to explain why a person acted or refused to act in a certain way—for example, to support the prosecution's assertion that the accused committed the crime. If a person accused of murder was the beneficiary of a life insurance policy on the deceased, the prosecution might argue that greed was the motive for the killing.

Proof of motive is not required in a criminal prosecution. In determining the guilt of a criminal defendant, courts are generally not concerned with why the defendant committed the alleged crime, but whether the defendant committed the crime. However, a defendant's motive is important in other stages of a criminal case, such as police investigation and sentencing. Law enforcement personnel often consider potential motives in detecting perpetrators. Judges may consider the motives of a convicted defendant at sentencing and either increase a sentence based on avaricious motives or decrease the sentence if the defendant's motives were honorable—for example, if the accused acted in defense of a family member.

In criminal law, motive is distinct from intent. Criminal intent refers to the mental state of mind possessed by a defendant in committing a crime. With few exceptions the prosecution in a criminal case must prove that the defendant intended to commit the illegal act. The prosecution need not prove the defendant's motive. Nevertheless, prosecutors and defense attorneys alike may make an issue of motive in connection with the case.

motive legal definition of motive. motive synonyms by the Free Online Law Dictionary.

Possession and Intent legal definition of Possession and Intent. Possession and Intent synonyms by the Free Online Law Dictionary.

 

[Valerie]

If the result of the vandalism is the same- why does it matter?

Why are people convicted of terrorism?

I mean, seriously, what is the difference between terrorism and hate crime?

Excellent point Ravi. More reason why we don't need 'hate' crime laws. Just charge them with terrorism. That would be far less intellectually offensive, if at all.

So you have no trouble with the concept really, it's just the terminology...???

 

[Ravi]

If the result of the vandalism is the same- why does it matter?

Why are people convicted of terrorism?

I mean, seriously, what is the difference between terrorism and hate crime?

Excellent point Ravi. More reason why we don't need 'hate' crime laws. Just charge them with terrorism. That would be far less intellectually offensive, if at all.

Except someone has less rights if they are charged with being a terrorist.

 

[manifold]

Why are people convicted of terrorism?

I mean, seriously, what is the difference between terrorism and hate crime?

Excellent point Ravi. More reason why we don't need 'hate' crime laws. Just charge them with terrorism. That would be far less intellectually offensive, if at all.

Except someone has less rights if they are charged with being a terrorist.

But the bar is a lot higher than merely letting loose a couple of racial slurs while in the heat of the moment.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Terrorism, such as what happened on 9/11 is a hate crime. It was a crime, not only against the people killed and the building destroyed, but against the entire community of American citizens.

It's goal was to change the community of it's target and manipulate it through fear and hatred.

It worked.

We changed our entire country because of those terrorist acts and our fear.

 

[Liability]

Terrorism, such as what happened on 9/11 is a hate crime. It was a crime, not only against the people killed and the building destroyed, but against the entire community of American citizens.

It's goal was to change the community of it's target and manipulate it through fear and hatred.

It worked.

We changed our entire country because of those terrorist acts and our fear.

Yeah. Right.

How pathetic of us to think that maybe we should engage in some proactive efforts to defeat the scumbags from achieving another "successful" atrocity.

Yeah. That's it.

"They" won.

 

[Katzndogz]

This from the article:



If it's true they were calling him homophobic slurs, it was a hate crime. The lesbians were beating the guy up, for what? He bumped them with his backpack.

What gets into people these days.

Some people anyway. How about killing a baby because a person didn't get the seat she wanted at the baby shower.

Fight at shower cited in slaying of 9-month-old boy | The Detroit News | detroitnews.com

What do all these incidents have in common? Hmmmmmm. Must be something.

um, they all involve black people which allows a racist shitbag like you to crawl out from whatever maggot infested shithole you hang out in and spew some racist bile without actually having the stones to admit it?

hmmm, yeah, i think that's it, you cowardly shitbag

Pointing out the similarities is racist bile. Yes, I get it. So they will continue. These women did not commit a hate crime because they are lesbians attacking a gay man. Being lesbians had nothing whatsoever to do with their assault. They committed this crime because they perceived they had a right to commit this crime.

 

[del]

Terrorism, such as what happened on 9/11 is a hate crime. It was a crime, not only against the people killed and the building destroyed, but against the entire community of American citizens.

It's goal was to change the community of it's target and manipulate it through fear and hatred.

It worked.

We changed our entire country because of those terrorist acts and our fear.

Yeah. Right.

How pathetic of us to think that maybe we should engage in some proactive efforts to defeat the scumbags from achieving another "successful" atrocity.

Yeah. That's it.

"They" won.

next time you're subjected to a full body search at the airport, tell yourself we're winning

 

[del]

Some people anyway. How about killing a baby because a person didn't get the seat she wanted at the baby shower.

Fight at shower cited in slaying of 9-month-old boy | The Detroit News | detroitnews.com

What do all these incidents have in common? Hmmmmmm. Must be something.

um, they all involve black people which allows a racist shitbag like you to crawl out from whatever maggot infested shithole you hang out in and spew some racist bile without actually having the stones to admit it?

hmmm, yeah, i think that's it, you cowardly shitbag

Pointing out the similarities is racist bile. Yes, I get it. So they will continue. These women did not commit a hate crime because they are lesbians attacking a gay man. Being lesbians had nothing whatsoever to do with their assault. They committed this crime because they perceived they had a right to commit this crime.

c'mon, you can do it! say it. you believe it, so say it, you coward.

they're black and they feel entitled to commit crimes!!!!!!!!!!