Largest government defeat since the war (apparently)

[Tommy Tainant]

May has RAF plane on standby as she faces biggest parliamentary defeat since WW2

In the next hour.
Estimates range from 80 to 200.
May already knows she cant win and there is an RAF plane warming up to take her to Brussels to beg for more concessions.
Taking back control my arse.

I have a bottle of Sancerre chilled to accompany the debacle.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Wow !

200 for and 432 agin.

There has never been such a crushing defeat.

As we speak Mrs May is flying to Belgium in search of friends. She may struggle to find one.

Brexit is imploding ,Praise the Lord !!

 

[percysunshine]

The British do not implode. They just pretend to be Canadian.

 

[Olde Europe]

Wow !

200 for and 432 agin.

There has never been such a crushing defeat.

As we speak Mrs May is flying to Belgium in search of friends. She may struggle to find one.

Brexit is imploding ,Praise the Lord !!

That was quite impressive.

I am not confident Brexit is imploding, to be honest. Rather, I find, despite there (reportedly) being a huge majority in Parliament against a no-deal Brexit, the clock is ticking toward a no-deal Brexit, since that's the default position to kick in if no majority forms behind any kind of deal. There appears to be no such majority, and no one seems able to point to a way to create one.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Wow !

200 for and 432 agin.

There has never been such a crushing defeat.

As we speak Mrs May is flying to Belgium in search of friends. She may struggle to find one.

Brexit is imploding ,Praise the Lord !!

That was quite impressive.

I am not confident Brexit is imploding, to be honest. Rather, I find, despite there (reportedly) being a huge majority in Parliament against a no-deal Brexit, the clock is ticking toward a no-deal Brexit, since that's the default position to kick in if no majority forms behind any kind of deal. There appears to be no such majority, and no one seems able to point to a way to create one.

There is going to be a vote of no confidence tomorrow. She will win that because Corbyn does not have the votes, It is a pointless exercise.

Meanwhile there is a majority for remain in the Commons and Lords. There is a way through it but my head hurts now.

 

[forkup]

Wow !

200 for and 432 agin.

There has never been such a crushing defeat.

As we speak Mrs May is flying to Belgium in search of friends. She may struggle to find one.

Brexit is imploding ,Praise the Lord !!

That was quite impressive.

I am not confident Brexit is imploding, to be honest. Rather, I find, despite there (reportedly) being a huge majority in Parliament against a no-deal Brexit, the clock is ticking toward a no-deal Brexit, since that's the default position to kick in if no majority forms behind any kind of deal. There appears to be no such majority, and no one seems able to point to a way to create one.

There is going to be a vote of no confidence tomorrow. She will win that because Corbyn does not have the votes, It is a pointless exercise.

Meanwhile there is a majority for remain in the Commons and Lords. There is a way through it but my head hurts now.

At this point, is there a genuine push for a second referendum? I just don't see why the best British politics can come up with is "blow up the economy"

 

[Olde Europe]

There is going to be a vote of no confidence tomorrow. She will win that because Corbyn does not have the votes, It is a pointless exercise.

Meanwhile there is a majority for remain in the Commons and Lords. There is a way through it but my head hurts now.

Yep, May all but lured Corbyn into tabling a no-confidence vote, which, I agree, she is likely to win, short of a major revolt of Tory MPs sparked by the sheer magnitude of her defeat today. All bets are off, I think.

I don't think there is an actual majority for remain, not least because disrespecting the referendum is the next best thing to parliamentary suicide, with unspeakable consequences for the British population.

Many heads are hurting this night, I am quite sure. The only one enjoying himself immensely seems to be one Mr. Bercow, who finds a huge shift of power towards him and the House. It remains to be seen whether he's able to shepherd anything through the House, and what that is.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Wow !

200 for and 432 agin.

There has never been such a crushing defeat.

As we speak Mrs May is flying to Belgium in search of friends. She may struggle to find one.

Brexit is imploding ,Praise the Lord !!

That was quite impressive.

I am not confident Brexit is imploding, to be honest. Rather, I find, despite there (reportedly) being a huge majority in Parliament against a no-deal Brexit, the clock is ticking toward a no-deal Brexit, since that's the default position to kick in if no majority forms behind any kind of deal. There appears to be no such majority, and no one seems able to point to a way to create one.

There is going to be a vote of no confidence tomorrow. She will win that because Corbyn does not have the votes, It is a pointless exercise.

Meanwhile there is a majority for remain in the Commons and Lords. There is a way through it but my head hurts now.

At this point, is there a genuine push for a second referendum? I just don't see why the best British politics can come up with is "blow up the economy"

Its meandering in that direction.There have been cross party talks but not involving Corbyn who is hell bent on an election which will resolve nada. There are so many layers to this. Both sides united to give her this kicking. But common sense would lose the brexiters if they pushed for a second referendum. I think that they should and think that they will have to because the only deal on the table now is.......................no deal.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

There is going to be a vote of no confidence tomorrow. She will win that because Corbyn does not have the votes, It is a pointless exercise.

Meanwhile there is a majority for remain in the Commons and Lords. There is a way through it but my head hurts now.

Yep, May all but lured Corbyn into tabling a no-confidence vote, which, I agree, she is likely to win, short of a major revolt of Tory MPs sparked by the sheer magnitude of her defeat today. All bets are off, I think.

I don't think there is an actual majority for remain, not least because disrespecting the referendum is the next best thing to parliamentary suicide, with unspeakable consequences for the British population.

Many heads are hurting this night, I am quite sure. The only one enjoying himself immensely seems to be one Mr. Bercow, who finds a huge shift of power towards him and the House. It remains to be seen whether he's able to shepherd anything through the House, and what that is.

My constituency voted for brexit but our MP voted against the deal tonight. They pretty much all did. The majority is there but they need leadership.

 

[forkup]

Wow !

200 for and 432 agin.

There has never been such a crushing defeat.

As we speak Mrs May is flying to Belgium in search of friends. She may struggle to find one.

Brexit is imploding ,Praise the Lord !!

That was quite impressive.

I am not confident Brexit is imploding, to be honest. Rather, I find, despite there (reportedly) being a huge majority in Parliament against a no-deal Brexit, the clock is ticking toward a no-deal Brexit, since that's the default position to kick in if no majority forms behind any kind of deal. There appears to be no such majority, and no one seems able to point to a way to create one.

There is going to be a vote of no confidence tomorrow. She will win that because Corbyn does not have the votes, It is a pointless exercise.

Meanwhile there is a majority for remain in the Commons and Lords. There is a way through it but my head hurts now.

At this point, is there a genuine push for a second referendum? I just don't see why the best British politics can come up with is "blow up the economy"

Its meandering in that direction.There have been cross party talks but not involving Corbyn who is hell bent on an election which will resolve nada. There are so many layers to this. Both sides united to give her this kicking. But common sense would lose the brexiters if they pushed for a second referendum. I think that they should and think that they will have to because the only deal on the table now is.......................no deal.

I'm Belgian and it always kind of baffled me that no one in Britain on the leave side seemed to have thought it all the way through. Of course I don't speak completely objectively but it was pretty obvious that the British negotiating position would be extremely weak. The EU has way more incentive to make leaving it painful than making huge concessions to a country that already had pretty big concessions when they were in. These guys that pushed for it were in the end politicians to. What was their objective? Do you have any insight? Not talking about the people who voted for it, just the leadership for the movement?

 

[Olde Europe]

My constituency voted for brexit but our MP voted against the deal tonight. They pretty much all did. The majority is there but they need leadership.

You seem to be equating the majority against May's deal to a majority for remain. I believe that calculation to be faulty.

With a proven 30% for May's deal, and an estimated 30% of hard Brexiteers, there isn't a possible majority for anything, and no obvious way to bring one about. The magnitude of the defeat for May demonstrates that nothing she can get from the EU (let's be honest, that would just be cosmetics) would save her deal.

That means, parliamentary indecision is there to remain, and no-deal would be the obvious outcome thereof, particularly so given there are strong, even irate statements from the EU opposing even an extended deadline. Unless, of course, Bercow finds some magic no one has yet thought of. May you live in interesting times, as they say.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

My constituency voted for brexit but our MP voted against the deal tonight. They pretty much all did. The majority is there but they need leadership.

You seem to be equating the majority against May's deal to a majority for remain. I believe that calculation to be faulty.

With a proven 30% for May's deal, and an estimated 30% of hard Brexiteers, there isn't a possible majority for anything, and no obvious way to bring one about. The magnitude of the defeat for May demonstrates that nothing she can get from the EU (let's be honest, that would just be cosmetics) would save her deal.

That means, parliamentary indecision is there to remain, and no-deal would be the obvious outcome thereof, particularly so given there are strong, even irate statements from the EU opposing even an extended deadline. Unless, of course, Bercow finds some magic no one has yet thought of. May you live in interesting times, as they say.

No, you discount the remainers in the tory party.There are enough of them to form a majority with the opposition.They will not act until they have to though. That time may be coming soon.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Wow !

200 for and 432 agin.

There has never been such a crushing defeat.

As we speak Mrs May is flying to Belgium in search of friends. She may struggle to find one.

Brexit is imploding ,Praise the Lord !!

That was quite impressive.

I am not confident Brexit is imploding, to be honest. Rather, I find, despite there (reportedly) being a huge majority in Parliament against a no-deal Brexit, the clock is ticking toward a no-deal Brexit, since that's the default position to kick in if no majority forms behind any kind of deal. There appears to be no such majority, and no one seems able to point to a way to create one.

There is going to be a vote of no confidence tomorrow. She will win that because Corbyn does not have the votes, It is a pointless exercise.

Meanwhile there is a majority for remain in the Commons and Lords. There is a way through it but my head hurts now.

At this point, is there a genuine push for a second referendum? I just don't see why the best British politics can come up with is "blow up the economy"

Its meandering in that direction.There have been cross party talks but not involving Corbyn who is hell bent on an election which will resolve nada. There are so many layers to this. Both sides united to give her this kicking. But common sense would lose the brexiters if they pushed for a second referendum. I think that they should and think that they will have to because the only deal on the table now is.......................no deal.

I'm Belgian and it always kind of baffled me that no one in Britain on the leave side seemed to have thought it all the way through. Of course I don't speak completely objectively but it was pretty obvious that the British negotiating position would be extremely weak. The EU has way more incentive to make leaving it painful than making huge concessions to a country that already had pretty big concessions when they were in. These guys that pushed for it were in the end politicians to. What was their objective? Do you have any insight? Not talking about the people who voted for it, just the leadership for the movement?

Most of them have been dreaming of brexit for years. It has become a mantra. It has torn the tories apart since thatchers days.

There are several groupings.

Those who have a romanticized world view and dream of Britannia ruling the waves again.

Those who long to break free of EU protections so that they can deregulate everything and turn us into a capitalist paradise.

Those who have genuine concerns about the EU.

And Boris Jonson who sees it as the issue that would make him Prime Minister.

Considering the time they have been moaning you would think that they had a plan of some sort.

But no. Up until recently they still believed that we held all the cards in the debate. Deluded.

May screwed up by appointing the most limited of them to negotiate. David Davies sat down with his counterparts for a couple of hours over 2 years. Meanwhile the tory party was engaged in a discussion with itself on what brexit should look like. After all nobody wanted the approaching nuclear winter.

And the EU sat by politely watching the circus unfold.

If we had a credible opposition it would be straightforward thing to sort out. But Corbyn is himself a quiet brexiter and is conflicted.

Parliament cant sort it so the obvious move is to put the deal to the people.

 

[Olde Europe]

No, you discount the remainers in the tory party.There are enough of them to form a majority with the opposition.They will not act until they have to though. That time may be coming soon.

Yeah, the Tory Remainers... I've actually looked for those critters, but they seem quite elusive, and I have yet to find anyone willing to put their number at anything near two dozen. You got anything actually to read for us to see an actual nose count?

On the other hand, what are you thinking about that would make them, regardless of their number, "act"? For all I see is they are frightened to death, having put the Brexit decision to the voters, then to be seen voting against the result. Care to explain?

 

[Tommy Tainant]

No, you discount the remainers in the tory party.There are enough of them to form a majority with the opposition.They will not act until they have to though. That time may be coming soon.

Yeah, the Tory Remainers... I've actually looked for those critters, but they seem quite elusive, and I have yet to find anyone willing to put their number at anything near two dozen. You got anything actually to read for us to see an actual nose count?

On the other hand, what are you thinking about that would make them, regardless of their number, "act"? For all I see is they are frightened to death, having put the Brexit decision to the voters, then to be seen voting against the result. Care to explain?

Ive seen lists before now. There are enough of them to hold a veto. Grieve,Soubry,Clarke are the ringleaders.They have basically led the opposition to brexit in parliament.

 

[Olde Europe]

No, you discount the remainers in the tory party.There are enough of them to form a majority with the opposition.They will not act until they have to though. That time may be coming soon.

Yeah, the Tory Remainers... I've actually looked for those critters, but they seem quite elusive, and I have yet to find anyone willing to put their number at anything near two dozen. You got anything actually to read for us to see an actual nose count?

On the other hand, what are you thinking about that would make them, regardless of their number, "act"? For all I see is they are frightened to death, having put the Brexit decision to the voters, then to be seen voting against the result. Care to explain?

Ive seen lists before now. There are enough of them to hold a veto. Grieve,Soubry,Clarke are the ringleaders.They have basically led the opposition to brexit in parliament.

I fear, that doesn't clarify things. With a government majority so slim - and depending on the execrable, unreliable DUP to boot - even two dozen Tory Remainers hold a veto in any parliamentary vote met with unanimous objection from the opposition. I doubt those two dozen, together with Labor, SNP, LibDem Remainers would constitute a majority. Be that as it may...

That still leaves unanswered the question as to the number of those who would actually vote Remain (were they personally so inclined), rejecting the referendum result. The prospect of that happening - Britons asked to vote on Brexit, voting for Brexit, and seeing the result overturned by the House of Commons - frightens me to death, actually. The resulting societal acrimony may well make the days of UKIP seem like the good old days, and there is a good chance of parliamentary democracy on the brink of destruction. I, for one, cannot imagine many of the Remainers taking that risk. Going for a second referendum may well spark something quite similar, as in this instance the electorate would also very reasonably come to the conclusion that their voice is being disrespected by their representatives.

 

[Mindful]

The unelected Eurocrats haven't played exactly fair either.

Now they are getting scared of a no deal Brexit.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

No, you discount the remainers in the tory party.There are enough of them to form a majority with the opposition.They will not act until they have to though. That time may be coming soon.

Yeah, the Tory Remainers... I've actually looked for those critters, but they seem quite elusive, and I have yet to find anyone willing to put their number at anything near two dozen. You got anything actually to read for us to see an actual nose count?

On the other hand, what are you thinking about that would make them, regardless of their number, "act"? For all I see is they are frightened to death, having put the Brexit decision to the voters, then to be seen voting against the result. Care to explain?

Ive seen lists before now. There are enough of them to hold a veto. Grieve,Soubry,Clarke are the ringleaders.They have basically led the opposition to brexit in parliament.

I fear, that doesn't clarify things. With a government majority so slim - and depending on the execrable, unreliable DUP to boot - even two dozen Tory Remainers hold a veto in any parliamentary vote met with unanimous objection from the opposition. I doubt those two dozen, together with Labor, SNP, LibDem Remainers would constitute a majority. Be that as it may...

That still leaves unanswered the question as to the number of those who would actually vote Remain (were they personally so inclined), rejecting the referendum result. The prospect of that happening - Britons asked to vote on Brexit, voting for Brexit, and seeing the result overturned by the House of Commons - frightens me to death, actually. The resulting societal acrimony may well make the days of UKIP seem like the good old days, and there is a good chance of parliamentary democracy on the brink of destruction. I, for one, cannot imagine many of the Remainers taking that risk. Going for a second referendum may well spark something quite similar, as in this instance the electorate would also very reasonably come to the conclusion that their voice is being disrespected by their representatives.

Well there you go. Remain tories have struck again.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

No, you discount the remainers in the tory party.There are enough of them to form a majority with the opposition.They will not act until they have to though. That time may be coming soon.

Yeah, the Tory Remainers... I've actually looked for those critters, but they seem quite elusive, and I have yet to find anyone willing to put their number at anything near two dozen. You got anything actually to read for us to see an actual nose count?

On the other hand, what are you thinking about that would make them, regardless of their number, "act"? For all I see is they are frightened to death, having put the Brexit decision to the voters, then to be seen voting against the result. Care to explain?

Ive seen lists before now. There are enough of them to hold a veto. Grieve,Soubry,Clarke are the ringleaders.They have basically led the opposition to brexit in parliament.

I fear, that doesn't clarify things. With a government majority so slim - and depending on the execrable, unreliable DUP to boot - even two dozen Tory Remainers hold a veto in any parliamentary vote met with unanimous objection from the opposition. I doubt those two dozen, together with Labor, SNP, LibDem Remainers would constitute a majority. Be that as it may...

That still leaves unanswered the question as to the number of those who would actually vote Remain (were they personally so inclined), rejecting the referendum result. The prospect of that happening - Britons asked to vote on Brexit, voting for Brexit, and seeing the result overturned by the House of Commons - frightens me to death, actually. The resulting societal acrimony may well make the days of UKIP seem like the good old days, and there is a good chance of parliamentary democracy on the brink of destruction. I, for one, cannot imagine many of the Remainers taking that risk. Going for a second referendum may well spark something quite similar, as in this instance the electorate would also very reasonably come to the conclusion that their voice is being disrespected by their representatives.

Well there you go. Remain tories have struck again.

Or not.

 

[Mindful]

That was quite impressive.

I am not confident Brexit is imploding, to be honest. Rather, I find, despite there (reportedly) being a huge majority in Parliament against a no-deal Brexit, the clock is ticking toward a no-deal Brexit, since that's the default position to kick in if no majority forms behind any kind of deal. There appears to be no such majority, and no one seems able to point to a way to create one.

There is going to be a vote of no confidence tomorrow. She will win that because Corbyn does not have the votes, It is a pointless exercise.

Meanwhile there is a majority for remain in the Commons and Lords. There is a way through it but my head hurts now.

At this point, is there a genuine push for a second referendum? I just don't see why the best British politics can come up with is "blow up the economy"

Its meandering in that direction.There have been cross party talks but not involving Corbyn who is hell bent on an election which will resolve nada. There are so many layers to this. Both sides united to give her this kicking. But common sense would lose the brexiters if they pushed for a second referendum. I think that they should and think that they will have to because the only deal on the table now is.......................no deal.

I'm Belgian and it always kind of baffled me that no one in Britain on the leave side seemed to have thought it all the way through. Of course I don't speak completely objectively but it was pretty obvious that the British negotiating position would be extremely weak. The EU has way more incentive to make leaving it painful than making huge concessions to a country that already had pretty big concessions when they were in. These guys that pushed for it were in the end politicians to. What was their objective? Do you have any insight? Not talking about the people who voted for it, just the leadership for the movement?

Most of them have been dreaming of brexit for years. It has become a mantra. It has torn the tories apart since thatchers days.

There are several groupings.

Those who have a romanticized world view and dream of Britannia ruling the waves again.

Those who long to break free of EU protections so that they can deregulate everything and turn us into a capitalist paradise.

Those who have genuine concerns about the EU.

And Boris Jonson who sees it as the issue that would make him Prime Minister.

Considering the time they have been moaning you would think that they had a plan of some sort.

But no. Up until recently they still believed that we held all the cards in the debate. Deluded.

May screwed up by appointing the most limited of them to negotiate. David Davies sat down with his counterparts for a couple of hours over 2 years. Meanwhile the tory party was engaged in a discussion with itself on what brexit should look like. After all nobody wanted the approaching nuclear winter.

And the EU sat by politely watching the circus unfold.

If we had a credible opposition it would be straightforward thing to sort out. But Corbyn is himself a quiet brexiter and is conflicted.

Parliament cant sort it so the obvious move is to put the deal to the people.

What lies you tell.

Nothing to do with Britannia Rules the Waves.

I watched a young guy from Bristol on Sky News earlier, giving his reasoned and rational reasons for leaving the EU.

How you must hate Britain.