Kosher Jesus

[irosie91]

Aww Penelope, why did you stop there, the meat of it is in verse15:
15-20 shows Christianity teaching the curse
"Cursed be the man who makes any graven or molten image an abomination to the Lord, the handiwork of a craftsman and sets it up in secret! And all the people shall respond, saying, 'Amen!'
So the carpenters (guild) crafted an image of Jesus as warned here and in Isaiah44.
אָרוּר הָאִישׁ אֲשֶׁר יַעֲשֶׂה פֶסֶל וּמַסֵּכָה תּוֹעֲבַת יְהֹוָה מַעֲשֵׂה יְדֵי חָרָשׁ וְשָׂם בַּסָּתֶר וְעָנוּ כָל הָעָם וְאָמְרוּ אָמֵן :
Cursed be he who degrades his father and mother. And all the people shall say, 'Amen!'
*Jesus did this in the NT
אָרוּר מַקְלֶה אָבִיו וְאִמּוֹ וְאָמַר כָּל הָעָם אָמֵן
Cursed be he who moves back his neighbor's landmark. And all the people shall say, 'Amen!'
*The church did this.
אָרוּר מַסִּיג גְּבוּל רֵעֵהוּ וְאָמַר כָּל הָעָם אָמֵן :
Cursed be he who misguides a blind person on the way. And all the people shall say, 'Amen!'
*instead of removing the veil, Jesus is the mask making them blind.
אָרוּר מַשְׁגֶּה עִוֵּר בַּדָּרֶךְ וְאָמַר כָּל הָעָם אָמֵן :
Cursed be he who perverts the judgment of the stranger, the orphan, or the widow. And all the people shall say, 'Amen!'
*free get away wih sin card -iconographs show the fallen one holding the scales down perverting the weight of justice. Also proves the blindness.
אָרוּר מַטֶּה מִשְׁפַּט גֵּר יָתוֹם וְאַלְמָנָה וְאָמַר כָּל הָעָם אָמֵן :
Cursed be he who lies with his father's wife, thus uncovering the corner of his father's garment. And all the people shall say, 'Amen!'
*so Jesus claimed father impregnates his own mother.
אָרוּר שֹׁכֵב עִם אֵשֶׁת אָבִיו כִּי גִלָּה כְּנַף אָבִיו וְאָמַר כָּל הָעָם אָמֵן :
Cursed be he who lies with any animal. And all the people shall say, 'Amen!'
*Jesus right away slept with animals in a barn *L*
אָרוּר שֹׁכֵב עִם כָּל בְּהֵמָה וְאָמַר כָּל הָעָם אָמֵן :

come off it-----the Christmas baby DID NOT!!!!!!!

 

[HaShev]

Not just dreams, the NT and the church tells you who they are having you worship when it states Paul's vision & they tell you Constantine's vision was of a LUCIFEROUS LIGHT VISITATION claimed Jesus.
And yet I'm the one who gets harassed and ridiculed "for not having" dissociative disorder conversations or hellucinations of forbidden forms-go figure!
The twisted logic that being normal is wrong by those who think and have abnormal realities is kinda fascinating, but disturbing at the same time.

interesting idea----hashev------even CONSTANTINE saw a bit LIGHTED thingamajig

A bright light being encounter account that makes Giorgio A. Tsoukalos hair stand up for joy.

 

[hobelim]

That is you FORBIDDENLY make an image and form out of a non anthropromorphic precept that is an Essence not a figure who can speak.

Just as in rev 1:14, when a prophet has a vision of "The Lord" there are words involved, words without sound, a form of telepathy as described by Daniel who reported that while receiving communication from higher spheres of intelligent life no one else present saw or heard anything.

Fact: research yourself it was always the messenger of the Lord speaking to Moses and the other prophets.

No, you are wrong. Moses spoke with God face to face exactly as you are supposed to hear from God face to face if you were the real messiah.

Furthermore since you already admitted knowing physical expressions are missrepresented terms, then you should know anyone saying they see hear feel God is to say they sense or are in tune with the Essence of Shalem.

Nonsense. Only someone who never had a divine visitation of any sort would think that.

You just smacked Christianity in the face for making a figure and form, breaking the simplest command and admitting you worship something man created instead of man described nature and Essence that exists in creation.

I have made no such figure or form. God is a living being, incorporeal, without any visible shape or material substance, the only existing being whose existence is absolute, the source sustainer and goal of all life.

God is not a "man described nature" or 'essence' (without a singular intelligence) that exists in creation. Neither is God an impersonal force like gravity or energy.



You have never had a dream, vision, or visitation from the living God of any sort in your entire life. Not one word, revelation, or teaching from God to give. That is the truth. You don't have to admit it, your sin is as obvious as a white boulder in the middle of a plowed field..

You are not the messiah. You are just a common liar, a real imposter, who is speaking about things of which you know nothing for nothing more than personal gain, your only dedication, theft by deception.

 

[hobelim]

"Cursed be the man who makes any graven or molten image an abomination to the Lord, the handiwork of a craftsman and sets it up in secret! And all the people shall respond, saying, 'Amen!'
So the carpenters (guild) crafted an image of Jesus as warned here and in Isaiah44.
אָרוּר הָאִישׁ אֲשֶׁר יַעֲשֶׂה פֶסֶל וּמַסֵּכָה תּוֹעֲבַת יְהֹוָה מַעֲשֵׂה יְדֵי חָרָשׁ וְשָׂם בַּסָּתֶר וְעָנוּ כָל הָעָם וְאָמְרוּ אָמֵן :
Cursed be he who degrades his father and mother. And all the people shall say, 'Amen!'
*Jesus did this in the NT
אָרוּר מַקְלֶה אָבִיו וְאִמּוֹ וְאָמַר כָּל הָעָם אָמֵן
Cursed be he who moves back his neighbor's landmark. And all the people shall say, 'Amen!'
*The church did this.
אָרוּר מַסִּיג גְּבוּל רֵעֵהוּ וְאָמַר כָּל הָעָם אָמֵן :
Cursed be he who misguides a blind person on the way. And all the people shall say, 'Amen!'
*instead of removing the veil, Jesus is the mask making them blind.
אָרוּר מַשְׁגֶּה עִוֵּר בַּדָּרֶךְ וְאָמַר כָּל הָעָם אָמֵן :
Cursed be he who perverts the judgment of the stranger, the orphan, or the widow. And all the people shall say, 'Amen!'
*free get away wih sin card -iconographs show the fallen one holding the scales down perverting the weight of justice. Also proves the blindness.
אָרוּר מַטֶּה מִשְׁפַּט גֵּר יָתוֹם וְאַלְמָנָה וְאָמַר כָּל הָעָם אָמֵן :
Cursed be he who lies with his father's wife, thus uncovering the corner of his father's garment. And all the people shall say, 'Amen!'
*so Jesus claimed father impregnates his own mother.
אָרוּר שֹׁכֵב עִם אֵשֶׁת אָבִיו כִּי גִלָּה כְּנַף אָבִיו וְאָמַר כָּל הָעָם אָמֵן :
Cursed be he who lies with any animal. And all the people shall say, 'Amen!'
*Jesus right away slept with animals in a barn *L*
אָרוּר שֹׁכֵב עִם כָּל בְּהֵמָה וְאָמַר כָּל הָעָם אָמֵן :

"This", he told me, 'is the curse which goes out over all the land; for by the writing on one side every thief shall be swept clean away, and by the writing on the other, every perjurer shall be swept clean away. I have sent it out, the Lord of hosts has said, and it will enter the house of the thief and the house of the man who has perjured himself in my name. It shall stay inside that house and demolish it, timbers and stones and all."


How about an Amen to that hashev.......

 

[irosie91]

And yet I'm the one who gets harassed and ridiculed "for not having" dissociative disorder conversations or hellucinations

So Moses, Elijiah, Ezekiel, daniel, Jeremiah, Isaiah, etc. were all having dissociative disorder conversations or hallucinations?

So your real belief is that people who hear from God are mentally ill?

Some messiah...

Pfft...

You obviously don't pay attention to specific wording which is why you struggle with the Bible. This also slaped yourself andcthe way you think because it's you who breaks the simplest guide to understanding the Hebrew God. That is you FORBIDDENLY make an image and form out of a non anthropromorphic precept that is an Essence not a figure who can speak.
Fact: research yourself it was always the messenger of the Lord speaking to Moses and the other prophets. (I already made it known how this is possible as did
Bill Clinton and Stephen Hawking admit it possible at the science symposium he had right thereafter.)
Furthermore since you already admitted knowing physical expressions are missrepresented terms, then you should know anyone saying they see hear feel God is to say they sense or are in tune with the Essence of Shalem. You also can't confuse visions representing God with actual visitations since God is not a man nor form in Hebrew tradition. You just smacked Christianity in the face for making a figure and form, breaking the simplest command and admitting you worship something man created instead of man described nature and Essence that exists in creation.

You just got P.O.'d because I didn't say what you wanted or you couldn't get me to break the cardinal rule. You wanted me to be delusional like your mushroom eating buddies and it didn't happen as you planed and that backfires and proved your band of misfits were dissociative disorder zealots.

That being said,in what bizarro world would you want and try to create the worst scenerio in the world and not want redemption? Proper human behavior is:
I hope you to be, or I hope you are who you say you are as that means
redemption (HaSheva) is nigh.
Abnormal behavior is to support opposite and wish mankind to remain down in the crab bucket where you like to nip at prople's heels and bring them down to your level.
It just boggle the mind how people choose the curse over the blessing.

Deuteronomy 27:11-13New International Version (NIV)

11 On the same day Moses commanded the people:

12 When you have crossed the Jordan, these tribes shall stand on Mount Gerizim to bless the people: Simeon, Levi, Judah, Issachar, Joseph and Benjamin.13 And these tribes shall stand on Mount Ebal to pronounce curses: Reuben, Gad, Asher, Zebulun, Dan and Naphtali.

?? do you have some reason for citing these verses, penny dear?

 

[irosie91]

And yet I'm the one who gets harassed and ridiculed "for not having" dissociative disorder conversations or hellucinations

So Moses, Elijiah, Ezekiel, daniel, Jeremiah, Isaiah, etc. were all having dissociative disorder conversations or hallucinations?

So your real belief is that people who hear from God are crazy?

Some messiah...

Pfft...

The Jewish Scripture Prophets didn't speak in Tongues.
In fact, their prophecies are quite clear.
And not one word that even remotely looks like "Jesus".

Yes they all did speak in tongues..


The language of the prophets, figurative language that went over the heads of the ignorant, is what is meant by speaking in strange Tongues.

The gibbering done by Christians is evidence of a disintegrating mind, or as the ancients would say, demonic possession.

But the Apostles were uneducated.

Good point!

This fact sheds some light on the story of Pentecost.


"And tongues of fire appeared that settled above each of their heads."

......like whoosh!

The gospels do clearly state that most of the time the Apostles didn't know what the hell Jesus was talking about, and he wasn't squeaking or gibbering.

Apply what you already know about the language of the prophets to the teachings and sayings of Jesus and you will discover exactly what he found buried and hidden in the law and the prophets that inspired him to throw everything he had ever learned as an observant Jew in the trash and then started speaking in strange tongues until he died on that cross.


Forget about what Christians say, figure out for yourself what he, a Jew, was talking about to other Jews and then lets see if you will still be saying that Jesus wasn't the messiah.


The kingdom of heaven is like treasure lying buried in a field. The man who found it, buried it again and for sheer joy went and sold everything he had and bought that field." Matthew 13:44

your post seems to border on psychotic, HOBE. You start
out by declaring that the words of the "prophets" were
incomprehensible to whomever they were addressed. ???
NOPE----they were quite clear----you are CERTAINLY correct that the writings were done in POETIC STYLE----yup--that was the MODE OF THE TIME-----the poetic imagery was------KNOWN POETIC IMAGERY -----not "strange incomprehensible"-----as was Shakepeare to me when I was 10 years old. ----you seem have gone over the deep end on
that one
to be claiming that the people to whom Jesus spoke----including his chosen entourage----had no idea what he was talking about (???) <<<I missed that one.

the one point you made-----was that in order to have any idea
what the words attributed to Jesus (by----who ever attributed them) can be understood only by understanding them in the
context of time and place-----does seem logical. If you examine the words of Jesus that logically seem correctly attributed-----what you find ------is a Talmudist in the style of
HILLEL. When you read stuff attributed to "JOHN"-----you
get mysticism------reminiscent of the styles of DANIEL and
EZEKIEL (out of Babylon)

 

[Penelope]

Aww Penelope, why did you stop there, the meat of it is in verse15:
15-20 shows Christianity teaching the curse
"Cursed be the man who makes any graven or molten image an abomination to the Lord, the handiwork of a craftsman and sets it up in secret! And all the people shall respond, saying, 'Amen!'
So the carpenters (guild) crafted an image of Jesus as warned here and in Isaiah44.
אָרוּר הָאִישׁ אֲשֶׁר יַעֲשֶׂה פֶסֶל וּמַסֵּכָה תּוֹעֲבַת יְהֹוָה מַעֲשֵׂה יְדֵי חָרָשׁ וְשָׂם בַּסָּתֶר וְעָנוּ כָל הָעָם וְאָמְרוּ אָמֵן :
Cursed be he who degrades his father and mother. And all the people shall say, 'Amen!'
*Jesus did this in the NT
אָרוּר מַקְלֶה אָבִיו וְאִמּוֹ וְאָמַר כָּל הָעָם אָמֵן
Cursed be he who moves back his neighbor's landmark. And all the people shall say, 'Amen!'
*The church did this.
אָרוּר מַסִּיג גְּבוּל רֵעֵהוּ וְאָמַר כָּל הָעָם אָמֵן :
Cursed be he who misguides a blind person on the way. And all the people shall say, 'Amen!'
*instead of removing the veil, Jesus is the mask making them blind.
אָרוּר מַשְׁגֶּה עִוֵּר בַּדָּרֶךְ וְאָמַר כָּל הָעָם אָמֵן :
Cursed be he who perverts the judgment of the stranger, the orphan, or the widow. And all the people shall say, 'Amen!'
*free get away wih sin card -iconographs show the fallen one holding the scales down perverting the weight of justice. Also proves the blindness.
אָרוּר מַטֶּה מִשְׁפַּט גֵּר יָתוֹם וְאַלְמָנָה וְאָמַר כָּל הָעָם אָמֵן :
Cursed be he who lies with his father's wife, thus uncovering the corner of his father's garment. And all the people shall say, 'Amen!'
*so Jesus claimed father impregnates his own mother.
אָרוּר שֹׁכֵב עִם אֵשֶׁת אָבִיו כִּי גִלָּה כְּנַף אָבִיו וְאָמַר כָּל הָעָם אָמֵן :
Cursed be he who lies with any animal. And all the people shall say, 'Amen!'
*Jesus right away slept with animals in a barn *L*
אָרוּר שֹׁכֵב עִם כָּל בְּהֵמָה וְאָמַר כָּל הָעָם אָמֵן :

I guess this happened in 70 AD according to Josephus.
Deuteronomy 28

53 Because of the suffering your enemy will inflict on you during the siege, you will eat the fruit of the womb, the flesh of the sons and daughters the Lord your God has given you. 54 Even the most gentle and sensitive man among you will have no compassion on his own brother or the wife he loves or his surviving children, 55 and he will not give to one of them any of the flesh of his children that he is eating. It will be all he has left because of the suffering your enemy will inflict on you during the siege of all your cities. 56 The most gentle and sensitive woman among you—so sensitive and gentle that she would not venture to touch the ground with the sole of her foot—will begrudge the husband she loves and her own son or daughter 57 the afterbirth from her womb and the children she bears. For in her dire need she intends to eat them secretly because of the suffering your enemy will inflict on you during the siege of your cities.

 

[hobelim]

you seem have gone over the deep end on
that one
to be claiming that the people to whom Jesus spoke----including his chosen entourage----had no idea what he was talking about (???) <<<I missed that one.

If you missed that you missed a lot;



But they did not understand what he meant and were afraid to ask him about it. Mark 9:32

But they did not understand the statement He was making to them. luke 2:50

But they did not understand this statement. It was veiled from them so that they could not comprehend it, and they were afraid to ask Him about it. Luke 9:45

The disciples did not understand any of this. Its meaning was hidden from them, and they did not know what he was talking about. Luke 18:34

They did not understand that he had been speaking to them about the Father. John 8:27

Why can't you understand what I am saying? It's because my revelation is above your grasp. John 8:43

This figure of speech Jesus used with them, but they did not understand what he was saying to them. John 10:6

the one point you made-----was that in order to have any idea
what the words attributed to Jesus (by----who ever attributed them) can be understood only by understanding them in the
context of time and place-----does seem logical.

No, Jesus received his teaching from God. It is God alone who either grants or denies comprehension whenever they read his words during whatever time they live in.

 

[irosie91]

Aww Penelope, why did you stop there, the meat of it is in verse15:
15-20 shows Christianity teaching the curse
"Cursed be the man who makes any graven or molten image an abomination to the Lord, the handiwork of a craftsman and sets it up in secret! And all the people shall respond, saying, 'Amen!'
So the carpenters (guild) crafted an image of Jesus as warned here and in Isaiah44.
אָרוּר הָאִישׁ אֲשֶׁר יַעֲשֶׂה פֶסֶל וּמַסֵּכָה תּוֹעֲבַת יְהֹוָה מַעֲשֵׂה יְדֵי חָרָשׁ וְשָׂם בַּסָּתֶר וְעָנוּ כָל הָעָם וְאָמְרוּ אָמֵן :
Cursed be he who degrades his father and mother. And all the people shall say, 'Amen!'
*Jesus did this in the NT
אָרוּר מַקְלֶה אָבִיו וְאִמּוֹ וְאָמַר כָּל הָעָם אָמֵן
Cursed be he who moves back his neighbor's landmark. And all the people shall say, 'Amen!'
*The church did this.
אָרוּר מַסִּיג גְּבוּל רֵעֵהוּ וְאָמַר כָּל הָעָם אָמֵן :
Cursed be he who misguides a blind person on the way. And all the people shall say, 'Amen!'
*instead of removing the veil, Jesus is the mask making them blind.
אָרוּר מַשְׁגֶּה עִוֵּר בַּדָּרֶךְ וְאָמַר כָּל הָעָם אָמֵן :
Cursed be he who perverts the judgment of the stranger, the orphan, or the widow. And all the people shall say, 'Amen!'
*free get away wih sin card -iconographs show the fallen one holding the scales down perverting the weight of justice. Also proves the blindness.
אָרוּר מַטֶּה מִשְׁפַּט גֵּר יָתוֹם וְאַלְמָנָה וְאָמַר כָּל הָעָם אָמֵן :
Cursed be he who lies with his father's wife, thus uncovering the corner of his father's garment. And all the people shall say, 'Amen!'
*so Jesus claimed father impregnates his own mother.
אָרוּר שֹׁכֵב עִם אֵשֶׁת אָבִיו כִּי גִלָּה כְּנַף אָבִיו וְאָמַר כָּל הָעָם אָמֵן :
Cursed be he who lies with any animal. And all the people shall say, 'Amen!'
*Jesus right away slept with animals in a barn *L*
אָרוּר שֹׁכֵב עִם כָּל בְּהֵמָה וְאָמַר כָּל הָעָם אָמֵן :

I guess this happened in 70 AD according to Josephus.
Deuteronomy 28

53 Because of the suffering your enemy will inflict on you during the siege, you will eat the fruit of the womb, the flesh of the sons and daughters the Lord your God has given you. 54 Even the most gentle and sensitive man among you will have no compassion on his own brother or the wife he loves or his surviving children, 55 and he will not give to one of them any of the flesh of his children that he is eating. It will be all he has left because of the suffering your enemy will inflict on you during the siege of all your cities. 56 The most gentle and sensitive woman among you—so sensitive and gentle that she would not venture to touch the ground with the sole of her foot—will begrudge the husband she loves and her own son or daughter 57 the afterbirth from her womb and the children she bears. For in her dire need she intends to eat them secretly because of the suffering your enemy will inflict on you during the siege of your cities.

the verses you have quoted are very powerful poetic images of HORRIFIC DISASTER. What sort of point do you
imagine you made-----or tried to make? Did you pass
your high school literature courses? Josephus was quite
a powerful writer of dramatic prose---too. Have you ever
read a book in your life other than ---The BOBBSEY TWINS?

 

[irosie91]

you seem have gone over the deep end on
that one
to be claiming that the people to whom Jesus spoke----including his chosen entourage----had no idea what he was talking about (???) <<<I missed that one.

If you missed that you missed a lot;



But they did not understand what he meant and were afraid to ask him about it. Mark 9:32

But they did not understand the statement He was making to them. luke 2:50

But they did not understand this statement. It was veiled from them so that they could not comprehend it, and they were afraid to ask Him about it. Luke 9:45

The disciples did not understand any of this. Its meaning was hidden from them, and they did not know what he was talking about. Luke 18:34

They did not understand that he had been speaking to them about the Father. John 8:27

Why can't you understand what I am saying? It's because my revelation is above your grasp. John 8:43

This figure of speech Jesus used with them, but they did not understand what he was saying to them. John 10:6

the one point you made-----was that in order to have any idea
what the words attributed to Jesus (by----who ever attributed them) can be understood only by understanding them in the
context of time and place-----does seem logical.

No, Jesus received his teaching from God. It is God alone who either grants or denies comprehension whenever they read his words during whatever time they live in.

??? Jesus IS "god" in the teachings of Christians. There is an adage that people like me learned in order
to learn a bit of Hebrew---it is an OLD ADAGE---- actually,
I believe, talmudic
Torah midaber b'lashon ha'am (approx.) it translates as,
approx. Torah speaks in the language of the people.-----
which means-----the scriptural writings----were done in
the language that THE PEOPLE SPOKE---and knew. The
word "torah" as I understand it is not confined to the FIVE
BOOKS------it is any kind of study or science. In this context
it refers to scriptural writings----like---the FIVE BOOKS and---
the Prophets and Psalms etc etc. If I knew greek or latin ---I could elaborate such an adage for the New Testament. Jesus spoke Aramaic-----which is the language of the Talmud---and he used all kinds of Talmudic expressions and colloquialisms (at least stuff that purports to quote him) ------stuff people knew. Jesus and the apostles of his entourage would have been able to read
my marriage contract-------I NEED THAT------I can't make
hide or hair of it. The custom of writing marriage contracts
in THAT OLD TIME ARAMAIC-----comes from the time of
Jesus----SO EVERYONE COULD UNDERSTAND THEM

 

[irosie91]

you seem have gone over the deep end on
that one
to be claiming that the people to whom Jesus spoke----including his chosen entourage----had no idea what he was talking about (???) <<<I missed that one.

If you missed that you missed a lot;



But they did not understand what he meant and were afraid to ask him about it. Mark 9:32

But they did not understand the statement He was making to them. luke 2:50

But they did not understand this statement. It was veiled from them so that they could not comprehend it, and they were afraid to ask Him about it. Luke 9:45

The disciples did not understand any of this. Its meaning was hidden from them, and they did not know what he was talking about. Luke 18:34

They did not understand that he had been speaking to them about the Father. John 8:27

Why can't you understand what I am saying? It's because my revelation is above your grasp. John 8:43

This figure of speech Jesus used with them, but they did not understand what he was saying to them. John 10:6

the one point you made-----was that in order to have any idea
what the words attributed to Jesus (by----who ever attributed them) can be understood only by understanding them in the
context of time and place-----does seem logical.

No, Jesus received his teaching from God. It is God alone who either grants or denies comprehension whenever they read his words during whatever time they live in.

hobe----you do realize that you are quoting people who never HEARD anything Jesus said-----and had no way of knowing
that this or that person UNDERSTOOD. Luke, not only never met Jesus----he did not know Aramaic. John consists of lots
of people------the name IS a very common one YAHYA---much used-----now even by arabs. (joooos too, of course) ----
and in legal documents in the USA JOHN DOE. Mark is also a mystery entity. Jesus IS "god"

 

[hobelim]

you seem have gone over the deep end on
that one
to be claiming that the people to whom Jesus spoke----including his chosen entourage----had no idea what he was talking about (???) <<<I missed that one.

If you missed that you missed a lot;



But they did not understand what he meant and were afraid to ask him about it. Mark 9:32

But they did not understand the statement He was making to them. luke 2:50

But they did not understand this statement. It was veiled from them so that they could not comprehend it, and they were afraid to ask Him about it. Luke 9:45

The disciples did not understand any of this. Its meaning was hidden from them, and they did not know what he was talking about. Luke 18:34

They did not understand that he had been speaking to them about the Father. John 8:27

Why can't you understand what I am saying? It's because my revelation is above your grasp. John 8:43

This figure of speech Jesus used with them, but they did not understand what he was saying to them. John 10:6

the one point you made-----was that in order to have any idea
what the words attributed to Jesus (by----who ever attributed them) can be understood only by understanding them in the
context of time and place-----does seem logical.

No, Jesus received his teaching from God. It is God alone who either grants or denies comprehension whenever they read his words during whatever time they live in.

??? Jesus IS "god" in the teachings of Christians. There is an adage that people like me learned in order
to learn a bit of Hebrew---it is an OLD ADAGE---- actually,
I believe, talmudic
Torah midaber b'lashon ha'am (approx.) it translates as,
approx. Torah speaks in the language of the people.-----
which means-----the scriptural writings----were done in
the language that THE PEOPLE SPOKE---and knew. The
word "torah" as I understand it is not confined to the FIVE
BOOKS------it is any kind of study or science. In this context
it refers to scriptural writings----like---the FIVE BOOKS and---
the Prophets and Psalms etc etc. If I knew greek or latin ---I could elaborate such an adage for the New Testament. Jesus spoke Aramaic-----which is the language of the Talmud---and he used all kinds of Talmudic expressions and colloquialisms (at least stuff that purports to quote him) ------stuff people knew. Jesus and the apostles of his entourage would have been able to read
my marriage contract-------I NEED THAT------I can't make
hide or hair of it. The custom of writing marriage contracts
in THAT OLD TIME ARAMAIC-----comes from the time of
Jesus----SO EVERYONE COULD UNDERSTAND THEM

No, Jesus is not God and never claimed to be God.


But in a way you are right, Jesus, like all the prophets who came before him, understood the metaphors and analogies that remained above the grasp of those who did not have the key to understanding or the intelligence to work it out..

For instance, the authors of scripture could not have been more obvious that the analogies between wild beasts and their flesh, are about human beings and their teaching, whether clean or unclean, in every instance from ritual sacrifice to kosher law and are not about farm animals or diet. What it is about translates perfectly into the vernacular of every language that compares human beings to lower beasts as people in every language and culture have done ever since people could talk.

A jackass in hebrew is a jackass in Aramaic, English, and in every language.

 

[Penelope]

Aww Penelope, why did you stop there, the meat of it is in verse15:
15-20 shows Christianity teaching the curse
"Cursed be the man who makes any graven or molten image an abomination to the Lord, the handiwork of a craftsman and sets it up in secret! And all the people shall respond, saying, 'Amen!'
So the carpenters (guild) crafted an image of Jesus as warned here and in Isaiah44.
אָרוּר הָאִישׁ אֲשֶׁר יַעֲשֶׂה פֶסֶל וּמַסֵּכָה תּוֹעֲבַת יְהֹוָה מַעֲשֵׂה יְדֵי חָרָשׁ וְשָׂם בַּסָּתֶר וְעָנוּ כָל הָעָם וְאָמְרוּ אָמֵן :
Cursed be he who degrades his father and mother. And all the people shall say, 'Amen!'
*Jesus did this in the NT
אָרוּר מַקְלֶה אָבִיו וְאִמּוֹ וְאָמַר כָּל הָעָם אָמֵן
Cursed be he who moves back his neighbor's landmark. And all the people shall say, 'Amen!'
*The church did this.
אָרוּר מַסִּיג גְּבוּל רֵעֵהוּ וְאָמַר כָּל הָעָם אָמֵן :
Cursed be he who misguides a blind person on the way. And all the people shall say, 'Amen!'
*instead of removing the veil, Jesus is the mask making them blind.
אָרוּר מַשְׁגֶּה עִוֵּר בַּדָּרֶךְ וְאָמַר כָּל הָעָם אָמֵן :
Cursed be he who perverts the judgment of the stranger, the orphan, or the widow. And all the people shall say, 'Amen!'
*free get away wih sin card -iconographs show the fallen one holding the scales down perverting the weight of justice. Also proves the blindness.
אָרוּר מַטֶּה מִשְׁפַּט גֵּר יָתוֹם וְאַלְמָנָה וְאָמַר כָּל הָעָם אָמֵן :
Cursed be he who lies with his father's wife, thus uncovering the corner of his father's garment. And all the people shall say, 'Amen!'
*so Jesus claimed father impregnates his own mother.
אָרוּר שֹׁכֵב עִם אֵשֶׁת אָבִיו כִּי גִלָּה כְּנַף אָבִיו וְאָמַר כָּל הָעָם אָמֵן :
Cursed be he who lies with any animal. And all the people shall say, 'Amen!'
*Jesus right away slept with animals in a barn *L*
אָרוּר שֹׁכֵב עִם כָּל בְּהֵמָה וְאָמַר כָּל הָעָם אָמֵן :

I guess this happened in 70 AD according to Josephus.
Deuteronomy 28

53 Because of the suffering your enemy will inflict on you during the siege, you will eat the fruit of the womb, the flesh of the sons and daughters the Lord your God has given you. 54 Even the most gentle and sensitive man among you will have no compassion on his own brother or the wife he loves or his surviving children, 55 and he will not give to one of them any of the flesh of his children that he is eating. It will be all he has left because of the suffering your enemy will inflict on you during the siege of all your cities. 56 The most gentle and sensitive woman among you—so sensitive and gentle that she would not venture to touch the ground with the sole of her foot—will begrudge the husband she loves and her own son or daughter 57 the afterbirth from her womb and the children she bears. For in her dire need she intends to eat them secretly because of the suffering your enemy will inflict on you during the siege of your cities.

the verses you have quoted are very powerful poetic images of HORRIFIC DISASTER. What sort of point do you
imagine you made-----or tried to make? Did you pass
your high school literature courses? Josephus was quite
a powerful writer of dramatic prose---too. Have you ever
read a book in your life other than ---The BOBBSEY TWINS?

He writes of eating children and famine in the War of the Jews, a Mary roasted her infant. A wealthy women sent her servant out, whose feet had not touched the ground to search for grain. Jews killing each other, eating whatever even inanimate things.

Jesus says you must eat of my flesh and drink my blood

yet you refuse to understand !!

 

[hobelim]

you seem have gone over the deep end on
that one
to be claiming that the people to whom Jesus spoke----including his chosen entourage----had no idea what he was talking about (???) <<<I missed that one.

If you missed that you missed a lot;



But they did not understand what he meant and were afraid to ask him about it. Mark 9:32

But they did not understand the statement He was making to them. luke 2:50

But they did not understand this statement. It was veiled from them so that they could not comprehend it, and they were afraid to ask Him about it. Luke 9:45

The disciples did not understand any of this. Its meaning was hidden from them, and they did not know what he was talking about. Luke 18:34

They did not understand that he had been speaking to them about the Father. John 8:27

Why can't you understand what I am saying? It's because my revelation is above your grasp. John 8:43

This figure of speech Jesus used with them, but they did not understand what he was saying to them. John 10:6

the one point you made-----was that in order to have any idea
what the words attributed to Jesus (by----who ever attributed them) can be understood only by understanding them in the
context of time and place-----does seem logical.

No, Jesus received his teaching from God. It is God alone who either grants or denies comprehension whenever they read his words during whatever time they live in.

hobe----you do realize that you are quoting people who never HEARD anything Jesus said-----and had no way of knowing
that this or that person UNDERSTOOD. Luke, not only never met Jesus----he did not know Aramaic. John consists of lots
of people------the name IS a very common one YAHYA---much used-----now even by arabs. (joooos too, of course) ----
and in legal documents in the USA JOHN DOE. Mark is also a mystery entity. Jesus IS "god"

By the time the story was put to paper, the Apostles understood and had already explained everything clearly to those who had ears to hear.. Their minds were opened to understand after Jesus was 'taken up'[ into heaven and appeared to them in dreams.

Then they wrote the stories in the same tradition in which the Torah was written, during times of brutal oppression when here was no such thing as freedom of speech and people were killed and maimed on a daily basis for trivial reasons.

 

[irosie91]

you seem have gone over the deep end on
that one
to be claiming that the people to whom Jesus spoke----including his chosen entourage----had no idea what he was talking about (???) <<<I missed that one.

If you missed that you missed a lot;



But they did not understand what he meant and were afraid to ask him about it. Mark 9:32

But they did not understand the statement He was making to them. luke 2:50

But they did not understand this statement. It was veiled from them so that they could not comprehend it, and they were afraid to ask Him about it. Luke 9:45

The disciples did not understand any of this. Its meaning was hidden from them, and they did not know what he was talking about. Luke 18:34

They did not understand that he had been speaking to them about the Father. John 8:27

Why can't you understand what I am saying? It's because my revelation is above your grasp. John 8:43

This figure of speech Jesus used with them, but they did not understand what he was saying to them. John 10:6

the one point you made-----was that in order to have any idea
what the words attributed to Jesus (by----who ever attributed them) can be understood only by understanding them in the
context of time and place-----does seem logical.

No, Jesus received his teaching from God. It is God alone who either grants or denies comprehension whenever they read his words during whatever time they live in.

??? Jesus IS "god" in the teachings of Christians. There is an adage that people like me learned in order
to learn a bit of Hebrew---it is an OLD ADAGE---- actually,
I believe, talmudic
Torah midaber b'lashon ha'am (approx.) it translates as,
approx. Torah speaks in the language of the people.-----
which means-----the scriptural writings----were done in
the language that THE PEOPLE SPOKE---and knew. The
word "torah" as I understand it is not confined to the FIVE
BOOKS------it is any kind of study or science. In this context
it refers to scriptural writings----like---the FIVE BOOKS and---
the Prophets and Psalms etc etc. If I knew greek or latin ---I could elaborate such an adage for the New Testament. Jesus spoke Aramaic-----which is the language of the Talmud---and he used all kinds of Talmudic expressions and colloquialisms (at least stuff that purports to quote him) ------stuff people knew. Jesus and the apostles of his entourage would have been able to read
my marriage contract-------I NEED THAT------I can't make
hide or hair of it. The custom of writing marriage contracts
in THAT OLD TIME ARAMAIC-----comes from the time of
Jesus----SO EVERYONE COULD UNDERSTAND THEM

No, Jesus is not God and never claimed to be God.

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
But in a way you are right, Jesus, like all the prophets who came before him, understood the metaphors and analogies

)))))))that remained above the grasp of those who did
not have the key to understanding or the intelligence to work it out..(((((((((

For instance, the authors of scripture could not have been more obvious that the analogies between wild beasts and their flesh, are about human beings and their teaching, whether clean or unclean, in every instance from ritual sacrifice to kosher law and are not about farm animals or diet. What it is about translates perfectly into the vernacular of every language that compares human beings to lower beasts as people in every language and culture have done ever since people could talk.

A jackass in hebrew is a jackass in Aramaic, English, and in every language.

nope hobe----wrong on many counts-----CALLING A PERSON A CHAMOUR (jackass) in Hebrew is not quite the same as
calling your golf buddy a "JACKASS" As to the metaphors and colloquialism and imageries used in the Hebrew writings---
NOPE---not only for the professors but for EVERYONE---
commonly known by the average person---certainly the people willing to listen to the speeches of an itinerant preacher. Jesus did use COMMONLY known stuff-----from talmudists like
HILLEL ----almost a contemporary-----Hillel died in Jerusalem at about the time Jesus was born------and was quoted----incessantly------like we quote Benjamin Franklin (we do quote
ben-----don't we?)

 

[irosie91]

Aww Penelope, why did you stop there, the meat of it is in verse15:
15-20 shows Christianity teaching the curse
"Cursed be the man who makes any graven or molten image an abomination to the Lord, the handiwork of a craftsman and sets it up in secret! And all the people shall respond, saying, 'Amen!'
So the carpenters (guild) crafted an image of Jesus as warned here and in Isaiah44.
אָרוּר הָאִישׁ אֲשֶׁר יַעֲשֶׂה פֶסֶל וּמַסֵּכָה תּוֹעֲבַת יְהֹוָה מַעֲשֵׂה יְדֵי חָרָשׁ וְשָׂם בַּסָּתֶר וְעָנוּ כָל הָעָם וְאָמְרוּ אָמֵן :
Cursed be he who degrades his father and mother. And all the people shall say, 'Amen!'
*Jesus did this in the NT
אָרוּר מַקְלֶה אָבִיו וְאִמּוֹ וְאָמַר כָּל הָעָם אָמֵן
Cursed be he who moves back his neighbor's landmark. And all the people shall say, 'Amen!'
*The church did this.
אָרוּר מַסִּיג גְּבוּל רֵעֵהוּ וְאָמַר כָּל הָעָם אָמֵן :
Cursed be he who misguides a blind person on the way. And all the people shall say, 'Amen!'
*instead of removing the veil, Jesus is the mask making them blind.
אָרוּר מַשְׁגֶּה עִוֵּר בַּדָּרֶךְ וְאָמַר כָּל הָעָם אָמֵן :
Cursed be he who perverts the judgment of the stranger, the orphan, or the widow. And all the people shall say, 'Amen!'
*free get away wih sin card -iconographs show the fallen one holding the scales down perverting the weight of justice. Also proves the blindness.
אָרוּר מַטֶּה מִשְׁפַּט גֵּר יָתוֹם וְאַלְמָנָה וְאָמַר כָּל הָעָם אָמֵן :
Cursed be he who lies with his father's wife, thus uncovering the corner of his father's garment. And all the people shall say, 'Amen!'
*so Jesus claimed father impregnates his own mother.
אָרוּר שֹׁכֵב עִם אֵשֶׁת אָבִיו כִּי גִלָּה כְּנַף אָבִיו וְאָמַר כָּל הָעָם אָמֵן :
Cursed be he who lies with any animal. And all the people shall say, 'Amen!'
*Jesus right away slept with animals in a barn *L*
אָרוּר שֹׁכֵב עִם כָּל בְּהֵמָה וְאָמַר כָּל הָעָם אָמֵן :

I guess this happened in 70 AD according to Josephus.
Deuteronomy 28

53 Because of the suffering your enemy will inflict on you during the siege, you will eat the fruit of the womb, the flesh of the sons and daughters the Lord your God has given you. 54 Even the most gentle and sensitive man among you will have no compassion on his own brother or the wife he loves or his surviving children, 55 and he will not give to one of them any of the flesh of his children that he is eating. It will be all he has left because of the suffering your enemy will inflict on you during the siege of all your cities. 56 The most gentle and sensitive woman among you—so sensitive and gentle that she would not venture to touch the ground with the sole of her foot—will begrudge the husband she loves and her own son or daughter 57 the afterbirth from her womb and the children she bears. For in her dire need she intends to eat them secretly because of the suffering your enemy will inflict on you during the siege of your cities.

the verses you have quoted are very powerful poetic images of HORRIFIC DISASTER. What sort of point do you
imagine you made-----or tried to make? Did you pass
your high school literature courses? Josephus was quite
a powerful writer of dramatic prose---too. Have you ever
read a book in your life other than ---The BOBBSEY TWINS?

He writes of eating children and famine in the War of the Jews, a Mary roasted her infant. A wealthy women sent her servant out, whose feet had not touched the ground to search for grain. Jews killing each other, eating whatever even inanimate things.

Jesus says you must eat of my flesh and drink my blood

yet you refuse to understand !!

I understand it very well------did you ever read the HISTORY
of THE DONNER PARTY? most real americans have
(well---literate americans) As to Jesus and his flesh and blood-----that was an appeal to people like you

 

[irosie91]

you seem have gone over the deep end on
that one
to be claiming that the people to whom Jesus spoke----including his chosen entourage----had no idea what he was talking about (???) <<<I missed that one.

If you missed that you missed a lot;



But they did not understand what he meant and were afraid to ask him about it. Mark 9:32

But they did not understand the statement He was making to them. luke 2:50

But they did not understand this statement. It was veiled from them so that they could not comprehend it, and they were afraid to ask Him about it. Luke 9:45

The disciples did not understand any of this. Its meaning was hidden from them, and they did not know what he was talking about. Luke 18:34

They did not understand that he had been speaking to them about the Father. John 8:27

Why can't you understand what I am saying? It's because my revelation is above your grasp. John 8:43

This figure of speech Jesus used with them, but they did not understand what he was saying to them. John 10:6

the one point you made-----was that in order to have any idea
what the words attributed to Jesus (by----who ever attributed them) can be understood only by understanding them in the
context of time and place-----does seem logical.

No, Jesus received his teaching from God. It is God alone who either grants or denies comprehension whenever they read his words during whatever time they live in.

hobe----you do realize that you are quoting people who never HEARD anything Jesus said-----and had no way of knowing
that this or that person UNDERSTOOD. Luke, not only never met Jesus----he did not know Aramaic. John consists of lots
of people------the name IS a very common one YAHYA---much used-----now even by arabs. (joooos too, of course) ----
and in legal documents in the USA JOHN DOE. Mark is also a mystery entity. Jesus IS "god"

By the time the story was put to paper, the Apostles understood and had already explained everything clearly to those who had ears to hear.. Their minds were opened to understand after Jesus was 'taken up'[ into heaven and appeared to them in dreams.

Then they wrote the stories in the same tradition in which the Torah was written, during times of brutal oppression when here was no such thing as freedom of speech and people were killed and maimed on a daily basis for trivial reasons.

what story? The torah was written in times of brutal oppression? -------what are you calling the "torah" -----the
word is not confined to the scroll thing you see in a closet in the synagogue <<< a greek word The NT was compiled
from various writings by the NICEAN council. Who was killing people for trivial reasons? what people and when and by whom?

 

[Indeependent]

you seem have gone over the deep end on
that one
to be claiming that the people to whom Jesus spoke----including his chosen entourage----had no idea what he was talking about (???) <<<I missed that one.

If you missed that you missed a lot;



But they did not understand what he meant and were afraid to ask him about it. Mark 9:32

But they did not understand the statement He was making to them. luke 2:50

But they did not understand this statement. It was veiled from them so that they could not comprehend it, and they were afraid to ask Him about it. Luke 9:45

The disciples did not understand any of this. Its meaning was hidden from them, and they did not know what he was talking about. Luke 18:34

They did not understand that he had been speaking to them about the Father. John 8:27

Why can't you understand what I am saying? It's because my revelation is above your grasp. John 8:43

This figure of speech Jesus used with them, but they did not understand what he was saying to them. John 10:6

the one point you made-----was that in order to have any idea
what the words attributed to Jesus (by----who ever attributed them) can be understood only by understanding them in the
context of time and place-----does seem logical.

No, Jesus received his teaching from God. It is God alone who either grants or denies comprehension whenever they read his words during whatever time they live in.

Because they had low IQs...these are your Jesus worshippers.

 

[Indeependent]

And yet I'm the one who gets harassed and ridiculed "for not having" dissociative disorder conversations or hellucinations

So Moses, Elijiah, Ezekiel, daniel, Jeremiah, Isaiah, etc. were all having dissociative disorder conversations or hallucinations?

So your real belief is that people who hear from God are crazy?

Some messiah...

Pfft...

The Jewish Scripture Prophets didn't speak in Tongues.
In fact, their prophecies are quite clear.
And not one word that even remotely looks like "Jesus".

Yes they all did speak in tongues..


The language of the prophets, figurative language that went over the heads of the ignorant, is what is meant by speaking in strange Tongues.

The gibbering done by Christians is evidence of a disintegrating mind, or as the ancients would say, demonic possession.

But the Apostles were uneducated.

??? uneducated at that time meant ILLITERATE----sorta. ---
where did you get that those guys who fall into the
APOSTLE group were illiterate?

Fishermen and Tax Collectors (Publicans) were usually illiterate.

 

[irosie91]

So Moses, Elijiah, Ezekiel, daniel, Jeremiah, Isaiah, etc. were all having dissociative disorder conversations or hallucinations?

So your real belief is that people who hear from God are crazy?

Some messiah...

Pfft...

The Jewish Scripture Prophets didn't speak in Tongues.
In fact, their prophecies are quite clear.
And not one word that even remotely looks like "Jesus".

Yes they all did speak in tongues..


The language of the prophets, figurative language that went over the heads of the ignorant, is what is meant by speaking in strange Tongues.

The gibbering done by Christians is evidence of a disintegrating mind, or as the ancients would say, demonic possession.

But the Apostles were uneducated.

??? uneducated at that time meant ILLITERATE----sorta. ---
where did you get that those guys who fall into the
APOSTLE group were illiterate?

Fishermen and Tax Collectors (Publicans) were usually illiterate.

really? -----Fisherman? Peter? no cheder?----none at all? tax collectors kept it ALL IN THEIR heads? (no cheder either?) --------my grandfather was a baker----almost an
abandoned child---the story is he slept and "helped out"---in the bakery (at least it was warm) from very early childhood-----
never spent a day in school-------I assumed him to be absolutely ILLITERATE---could not have asked---he did not speak english-----but somehow he did manage to
read at the bar mitzvah of my brother------obviously one of the
bakers gave him a few lessons. I do not believe that PETER
(that was the fisherman----I think) was ILLITERATE.
HE WAS THE FIRST POPE!!!! (literacy is not a job requirement?)