Kennedy: Barred from Communion

[California Girl]

I saw that "MOOT" part....I know what the fuck the word means dumbass.

I simply NEVER SAW HER SAY she agrees that the Church is within it's right to discipline Kennedy this way.

She said (and I quote):



She needs to own the above statement, or clarify whether or not she agrees with the ACTION the church has taken. Or not.

She has not done that so far. Once she has, I will withdraw my objection to her post (or not), depending upon her actual position with regard to the Church's action in this matter.

GOOD FUCKIN GRIEF.

Jen, go back and read Si's post. As soon as she realized that the statement came from Kennedy, she withdrew her comment.

It is not for us to keep you up to speed, it is for you to make sure you get your facts straight, my friend.

However, the main point to this whole thing is this..... Tax Exemptions Must Remain For All Catholics!

See, I'm not getting how the whole "Personally, I think the Church is way out of line here" translates into it being about the Church supposedly blabbing.

I think the larger issue is that Si Modo has never clarified specifically WHAT the Church was out of line on.

She tried the face-saving move of, oh, it was Kennedy blabbing, I withdraw my statement.

But I believe she truly meant the action the Church took against Kennedy.

Does she or does she not agree with that? She's told us she is not a "non-Catholic". So apparently she has more than a Democratic dog in this race.

WHAT is her position on the "out of line" part? WHAT are they "out of line" on?

The action? (Banning Kennedy from Communion?)

I believe that is the case, although there are way too many practicing Catholics in this thread to make it comfortable or permissible for her to admit.

And, of course, it goes without saying. NO TAXES FOR CATHOLICS!

Go back and read what Si said. She was absolutely clear that her objection was that the Church made it public. When she realized it was not, she withdrew her comment. For heavens sake, Jen.... there are plenty of worthy idiots to attack, Si ain't one of 'em!! And.... she's Catholic.

And therefore, she - like us - enjoy a tax exempt status!

 

[Father Time]

Personally, I think the Church is way out of line here.

It is absolutely the right of the Catholic Church to barr a member from receiving the sacriments. It happens whenever a member is deemed to be outside the teachings of the Church. It is Kennedy who is at fault, not the Church.

Absolutely!

And it is certainly *not* within the purview of non-Catholics to comment or criticize on internal Church workings.

That is, unless, they are also willing to open up their faith to the same type of scrutiny and criticism they are heaping upon the Catholic Church in this case.

Go right ahead, I think that Catholic Church is full of power hungry weasels who will do shit like this and close down homeless shelters if they don't get their way and I have no faith.

 

[JenyEliza]

Jen, go back and read Si's post. As soon as she realized that the statement came from Kennedy, she withdrew her comment.

It is not for us to keep you up to speed, it is for you to make sure you get your facts straight, my friend.

However, the main point to this whole thing is this..... Tax Exemptions Must Remain For All Catholics!

See, I'm not getting how the whole "Personally, I think the Church is way out of line here" translates into it being about the Church supposedly blabbing.

I think the larger issue is that Si Modo has never clarified specifically WHAT the Church was out of line on.

She tried the face-saving move of, oh, it was Kennedy blabbing, I withdraw my statement.

But I believe she truly meant the action the Church took against Kennedy.

Does she or does she not agree with that? She's told us she is not a "non-Catholic". So apparently she has more than a Democratic dog in this race.

WHAT is her position on the "out of line" part? WHAT are they "out of line" on?

The action? (Banning Kennedy from Communion?)

I believe that is the case, although there are way too many practicing Catholics in this thread to make it comfortable or permissible for her to admit.

And, of course, it goes without saying. NO TAXES FOR CATHOLICS!

Go back and read what Si said. She was absolutely clear that her objection was that the Church made it public. When she realized it was not, she withdrew her comment. For heavens sake, Jen.... there are plenty of worthy idiots to attack, Si ain't one of 'em!! And.... she's Catholic.

And therefore, she - like us - enjoy a tax exempt status!

Just cuz she's Catholic, doesn't mean she agrees with Kennedy being banned from Communion.

I'm trying to pin her down on that point. Be helpful in that discussion, or move out of the way.

And .... great... she can enjoy tax-exempt status as soon as she answers my question.

NO TAXES FOR (GOOD) CATHOLICS!

 

[The T]

I am not religious person so I don't really care what church does. However, I do not disrespect people who believe and stand for what they believe in.

To me, if you want to be a member of a private club, you have to play by the club rules, otherwise club will deny you an access. You can't say you're catholic and join the catholic club "for the show", but spit on catholic club beliefs whenever you feel for it. You have every right to leave the club and join some other club that suits you better.

In this case, church is not out of line. I think it's long overdue and that church should have to make a move on all those "supposed" good Catholics like the Kennedy clan and Pelosi, Kerry, Biden, Dodd, Leahy, Durbin and many other big Catholics who literally commit a sin every time they receive communion. Knowingly supporting abortions and even pushing agenda's that would in effect make abortions more readily available, instead of doing what is demanded of all Catholics, which is to preach and practice abstinence until marriage and cease any pro abortion measures.

It's just sends the wrong message to have our political leaders who “know better” and were taught about a respect for all life to break a vital commandment and allow abortions to become a mainstream option in society with their blessing. Its hypocrisy and church did what they had to do.

Say what you want about the Catholic Church or any church and their procedures? This poster has it correct, and principled it is. It is the correct answer to this riddle. -KUDOS-

 

[JenyEliza]

OH....and just for the record, here's more from Bishop Tobin in response to Kennedy going public:

Bishop Tobin responds to Kennedy l WPRI.com

In the same letter I wrote to Congressman Kennedy, "I am writing to you personally and confidentially as a pastor addressing a member of his flock . . . At the present time I have no need or intention to make this a public issue." I also indicated, "I am available to discuss this matter with you in person at any mutually convenient time and place. I would welcome the opportunity to do so."

On February 28, 2007, the Congressman responded to me, "I have the utmost respect for the work you do on behalf of the Catholic community in Rhode Island. . . I understand your pastoral advice was confidential in nature and given with the best intentions for my personal spiritual welfare."

I am disappointed that the Congressman would make public my pastoral and confidential request of nearly three years ago that sought to provide solely for his spiritual well-being.

I have no desire to continue the discussion of Congressman Kennedy's spiritual life in public. At the same time, I will absolutely respond publicly and strongly whenever he attacks the Catholic Church, misrepresents the teachings of the Church, or issues inaccurate statements about my pastoral ministry.

As I wrote to the Congressman in February of 2007, and repeated in my public letter earlier this month, I am willing and even anxious to meet with him, to discuss these matters. My door remains open. However, it should be absolutely clear the Congressman himself has once again chosen to make this discussion a matter of public record.

In the meantime, I will continue to pray - sincerely and fervently - for his conversion and repentance, and for his personal and spiritual well-being. I wish him well.

 

[Polk]

For those who approve of this decision, how would you feel if a priest refused communion to a politician because of his support for the death penalty or his opposition to universal health care?

 

[JenyEliza]

For those who approve of this decision, how would you feel if a priest refused communion to a politician because of his support for the death penalty or his opposition to universal health care?

There is a difference. There is no Catechism or Church teaching against executing the guilty. In fact, I do believe the Pope has addressed this topic in Pastoral letters outlining the Church's position that civilian criminal law must be followed in Capitol crimes.

I am no Canon Lawyer, so I can't explain the Church position and do justice to it. But my (limited) understanding is that abortion is taking (INNOCENT) life. The Death Penalty is not.

That's just to simplfy it. Someone who knows more than I will come along and 'splain it more better.

 

[Care4all]

Just because it's the law of the land doesn't mean it's right. Slavery was the law of the land. Hanging horse thieves was the law of the land. Bounties for Indian scalps was the law of the land.

The church has been and always will be anti-abortion. Of course it belongs in this fight. And any political entity who champions abortion is, and should be, disciplined within the church.

Being denied communion is not excommunication. But obviously Kennedy doesn't give a shit about his faith anyway, or he wouldn't be the abortion king. The Catholic Church is a religion for the Kennedy women and children. The men use it to further their political careers.

Didn't seem to stop any Christians back then in the Slavery days, from receiving Communion, now did it?
FYI
Being denied Communion is ex communication Allie...

you can still attend Church if you are excommunicated, but you can not receive communion.....

I know, because I was excommunicated from the Catholic Church almost 20 years ago, when I remarried, 7 years after my divorce from a wife beating Catholic asshole....if I had gotten an annulment of my first marriage then I would have made it in to the good graces of the Church again, but without the annulment, I was not.....

Care

 

[Modbert]

"I believe in an America... where no public official either requests or accepts instructions on public policy from the Pope, the National Council of Churches or any other ecclesiastical source."

- John F. Kennedy, Address to the Greater Houston Ministerial Association, September 12, 1960.

 

[Father Time]

For those who approve of this decision, how would you feel if a priest refused communion to a politician because of his support for the death penalty or his opposition to universal health care?

There is a difference. There is no Catechism or Church teaching against executing the guilty. In fact, I do believe the Pope has addressed this topic in Pastoral letters outlining the Church's position that civilian criminal law must be followed in Capitol crimes.

I am no Canon Lawyer, so I can't explain the Church position and do justice to it. But my (limited) understanding is that abortion is taking (INNOCENT) life. The Death Penalty is not.

That's just to simplfy it. Someone who knows more than I will come along and 'splain it more better.

Uh the Catholic church is anti-death penalty, they even opposed the execution of Saddam Hussein, so to still give communion to politicians who support the death penalty makes them hypocrites.

 

[Polk]

For those who approve of this decision, how would you feel if a priest refused communion to a politician because of his support for the death penalty or his opposition to universal health care?

There is a difference. There is no Catechism or Church teaching against executing the guilty. In fact, I do believe the Pope has addressed this topic in Pastoral letters outlining the Church's position that civilian criminal law must be followed in Capitol crimes.

I am no Canon Lawyer, so I can't explain the Church position and do justice to it. But my (limited) understanding is that abortion is taking (INNOCENT) life. The Death Penalty is not.

That's just to simplfy it. Someone who knows more than I will come along and 'splain it more better.

Actually, the Church takes a very strong anti-death penalty position.

 

[California Girl]

For those who approve of this decision, how would you feel if a priest refused communion to a politician because of his support for the death penalty or his opposition to universal health care?

If their stance goes against the Church's stance, then I am fine with it.

It was inappropriate of Kennedy to make public something that should have remained between him and his Church. He chose to make confidential correspondence public in a shameless attempt to garner support.

Kennedy is an ass.

However, it is the anniversary of one of the greatest tragedies ever to strike our nation - the assassination of a truly awesome man - John F Kennedy. God Bless him.

 

[Modbert]

Uh the Catholic church is anti-death penalty, they even opposed the execution of Saddam Hussein, so to still give communion to politicians who support the death penalty makes them hypocrites.

After you're done curb stomping her. Mind getting a broom and brush to pick up the pieces? Remember, littering is wrong.

 

[Modbert]

However, it is the anniversary of one of the greatest tragedies ever to strike our nation - the assassination of a truly awesome man - John F Kennedy. God Bless him.

"I believe in an America... where no public official either requests or accepts instructions on public policy from the Pope, the National Council of Churches or any other ecclesiastical source."

- John F. Kennedy, Address to the Greater Houston Ministerial Association, September 12, 1960.

 

[Care4all]

No Jeny, I believe the Church is against the death penalty. Not so much that they do not recognize that some people should be executed for their egregious crimes, but because the system in which people are charged and judged and executed is not secure enough to keep the falsely accused from being executed...which programs such as "The Innocent Project" have shown to be the case.

 

[California Girl]

"I believe in an America... where no public official either requests or accepts instructions on public policy from the Pope, the National Council of Churches or any other ecclesiastical source."

- John F. Kennedy, Address to the Greater Houston Ministerial Association, September 12, 1960.

So, you didn't need to duck when the actual point flew over your head. This has absolutely no bearing on the discussion. The Church was not requestiong or instructing Kennedy on anything. He was instructed not to take communion because of his support for abortion. That is absolutely NOT instructing or requesting him to do anything - not surprized you don't see the difference.

 

[Bfgrn]

Personally, I think the Church is way out of line here.

BULLSHIT. The church is VERY clear on its position about Abortion. If you want to participate in Church given sacrament that church has EVERY right and RESPONSIBILITY to make sure you deserve said sacrament based on the beliefs and requirements of said faith.

Hey pea brain...are any of those Catholic priests that rape little boys refusing the sacraments?

 

[JenyEliza]

No Jeny, I believe the Church is against the death penalty. Not so much that they do not recognize that some people should be executed for their egregious crimes, but because the system in which people are charged and judged and executed is not secure enough to keep the falsely accused from being executed...which programs such as "The Innocent Project" have shown to be the case.

Yes and no. There are *many* anti-Death Penalty Catholics. However there ARE Catholics who support the Death Penalty and they remain Catholics in good standing.

My understanding is that there is no official Church teaching AGAINST the death penalty, therefore the Faithful are free to support--or reject the DP.

Which is different to Abortion, where there IS an official Church teaching against Abortion.

Of course, I could be wrong, but I don't think I am.

 

[Modbert]

So, you didn't need to duck when the actual point flew over your head. This has absolutely no bearing on the discussion. The Church was not requestiong or instructing Kennedy on anything. He was instructed not to take communion because of his support for abortion. That is absolutely NOT instructing or requesting him to do anything - not surprized you don't see the difference.

Except, it is instructing him practically to change his views on Abortion. We both know that exactly what the Church is sending as a message by doing this.

Personally? I have no problem with the church doing this because they are a private entity. However, if they do not want to be seen as hypocrites in this case, then ANY politician in support of the Death Penalty should be not allowed communion either.

 

[Modbert]

Yes and no. There are *many* anti-Death Penalty Catholics. However there ARE Catholics who support the Death Penalty and they remain Catholics in good standing.

My understanding is that there is no official Church teaching AGAINST the death penalty, therefore the Faithful are free to support--or reject the DP.

Which is different to Abortion, where there IS an official Church teaching against Abortion.

Of course, I could be wrong, but I don't think I am.

You enjoying all that spin of yours on the carnival ride?

Catholic Update - The Death Penalty by Kenneth R. Overberg, S.J.

Recent polls show that 75 percent of U.S. citizens favor the death penalty. Yet the U.S. Catholic bishops, along with many other Christians and Jews, have spoken out against capital punishment. Beyond polls and statements, powerful scenes dramatize opposing viewpoints: people protesting a death sentence with candlelight vigils, while others gather as if at a party shouting, "Kill the scum!"

The Catholic bishops of the United States have provided careful guidance about this difficult issue, applying the teaching of the universal Church to our American culture. Along with the leadership assemblies of many Churches (for example. American Baptists, Disciples of Christ, Episcopalians, Lutherans, Presbyterians), the U.S. bishops have expressed their opposition to the death penalty. First articulated in 1974, the bishops' position is explained in a 1980 statement, Capital Punishment. Individual bishops and state conferences of bishops have repeated in numerous teachings their opposition to the death penalty.

In their 1980 statement, the bishops begin by noting that punishment, "since it involves the deliberate infliction of evil on another," must be justifiable. They acknowledge that the Christian tradition has for a long time recognized a government's right to protect its citizens by using the death penalty in some serious situations. The bishops ask, however, if capital punishment is still justifiable in the present circumstances in the United States.

In this context, the bishops enter the debate about deterrence and retribution. They acknowledge that capital punishment certainly prevents the criminal from committing more crimes, yet question whether it prevents others from doing so. Similarly, concerning retribution, the bishops support the arguments against death as an appropriate form of punishment. The bishops add that reform is a third reason given to justify punishment, but it clearly does not apply in the case of capital punishment. And so they affirm: "We believe that in the conditions of contemporary American society, the legitimate purposes of punishment do not justify the imposition of the death penalty."