Josh Duggar And The Message Of Forgiveness

[Luddly Neddite]

These so called "christians" will be glad to know they are sending a very strong message to victims of child sexual predators that they really don't matter. Their pain is inconsequential. All that matters is that Josh and other pedos get a pass.

But, they already knew that because they get that message every single day. Whether is catholic priests, mormon sects, damn politicians and voters or that nice man down the street, the kids don't matter near as much as the monsters who molest them.

 

[Valerie]

You really have no reason to complain if anyone ever judges you harshly for your mistakes unless you change your ways.

tell that to the evangelical agenda which has been failing hard and dragging down the Republican party since the 1980s.

 

[JoeB131]

Gotcha! Even the courts, the forensic investigators, the judge and the jury were in on it. That doesn't sound nutty at all!

The Fornesic investigators didnt' take a side one way or the other on the issue of whether or not Brown had his hands up. They did confirm that Brown was at a good distance from Wilson when he was shot. i.e. no GSR.

There was no "judge", just a Grand Jury that heard the evidence a pro-Police DA presented.

 

[toastman]

Word has it that the new name for the show is going to be '19 rapes and counting'

 

[JoeB131]

Adultery and murder are both sins and both capable of breaking our fellowship with a holy God.

If your God considers both equally bad, then he is seriously fucked up as an individual.

I've been cheated on. Didn't like it. Makes me mad. But at the end of the day, I just realized having that person out of my life was sufficient. I didn't need to see her go to jail and I didn't feel a need for her to burn in Hell forever and ever. I'd have actually considered those thing gratuitous.

Let me put it this way. If you had a wife and you either cheated on her or killed her best friend, would not either of those offenses break your relationship with her?

Um, I think that one would be worse than the other. If I cheated on my spouse, we'd still have a relationship, even if kids were involved. If I killed her best freind, she'd be right in insisting I go to prison for that, and keeping the kids away from me.

Hell is not some place where people are lit aflame and that imagery does much disservice to people's perception of hell. In fact, it's not even exactly a punishment for many, but rather a continuation of one's earthly decision to live apart from the love and goodness of God.

This is the kind of stuff I can't let you get away wiht, the kind of "touchy-feely" Hell is just a Separation from God" kind of punishment.

That's NOT what the bible says. In fact, Jesus himself describes Hell as a place of flame where you should mutilate yourself rather than risk going there.

Mark 9:43-48
And if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than with two hands to go to hell, to the unquenchable fire. And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life lame than with two feet to be thrown into hell. And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into hell, ‘where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched.’

Shit! there are fire AND worms. Man, that kind of sounds sucky!

It doesn't have to be that way, Joe. God loves you and longs for you to accept his free gift of forgiveness. Do do I. Jesus paid a high price for your redemption and all he needs to hear is you to say yes to him.

I pray that you do.

Dude, I prayed to your sky pixie and your Naked Dude on a Stick when my Mom had cancer.

She died anyway.

All the things the nuns said were fucking lies.

Religion is a scam, and I treat it as such.

 

[JoeB131]

Ideally yes, but even with all our laws in place...crime and punishment still don't always match and people running the courts / law enforcement can crooked.
At the very core of Christianity is equality for all and justice

Well, no, it's actually kind of the opposite of that.

A mass murderer who prays for God's forgiveness will get into heaven.

While an adulterer or liar who doesn't really hurt anyone that badly will get to burn in Hell for ALL ETERNITY for not kissing God's ass.

I can't tell you how fucked up that sounds to me as an unbeliever, other than "Well, he's God, so it's his rules". It something most of you on the right would never tolerate from a government.

 

[Valerie]

Dude, I prayed to your sky pixie and your Naked Dude on a Stick when my Mom had cancer.

She died anyway.

All the things the nuns said were fucking lies.

Religion is a scam, and I treat it as such.

not really a lie if they believed.. just sayin'

 

[featherlite]

This is what fundie Christian theocracy would look like. 'Christian' child molesters getting a pass.

And getting congrats for it.

Jesus would actually require Duggars to submit to the law.

Ideally yes, but even with all our laws in place...crime and punishment still don't always match and people running the courts / law enforcement can crooked.
At the very core of Christianity is equality for all and justice

Well, no, it's actually kind of the opposite of that.

A mass murderer who prays for God's forgiveness will get into heaven.

While an adulterer or liar who doesn't really hurt anyone that badly will get to burn in Hell for ALL ETERNITY for not kissing God's ass.

I can't tell you how fucked up that sounds to me as an unbeliever, other than "Well, he's God, so it's his rules". It something most of you on the right would never tolerate from a government.

The equality in forgiveness. It has nothing to do with "kissing ass".
All people are subject to mans laws as they should be.
Many in charge of laws, enforcement of law, courts ect are crooked as all get out. TONS of guilty people are out there doing harm and many innocent people are doing life sentences. Man made laws are necessary , but they are far from perfect.

 

[kiwiman127]

It seems to me that Josh "diddle my sisters" Duggar gets a bit of a free pass from the other Christian club members simply because of his club affiliation.

That club membership sometimes is effective in swaying various parole boards.

Former Charles Manson follower gets parole Fox News

"He became a born-again Christian in prison, earned a master's degree and a doctorate in philosophy of religion and ministered to other inmates."

Had Josh been a Moslem or a Jew or if Bruce Davis had converted to Islam, I suspect the Christians in this thread would be much less forgiving of their crimes.

Some of you might recall the 'Christian' movement to spare axe murderer Carla Faye Tucker from the death penalty because she supposedly became a devout Christian while on death row.

I just posted the same sorry I didn't see your post

One of her most prominent supporters was Pat Robertson, who, recall, also ran for president. He gave us a chilling preview of what electing a Christian extremist president in this country would bring about.

As we speak, we're already seeing what happens when an extremist is in the White House.

"As we speak, we're already seeing what happens when an extremist is in the White House"-saintmichaeldefendthem
You just blew your OP's credibility with your judgmental hypocrisy.

 

[amrchaos]

Question

If God knows everything, then why do you need to ask God for forgiveness? God already knows you wish to be forgiven, why do you need to tell God what he already knows?

 

[Avatar4321]

These so called "christians" will be glad to know they are sending a very strong message to victims of child sexual predators that they really don't matter. Their pain is inconsequential. All that matters is that Josh and other pedos get a pass.

But, they already knew that because they get that message every single day. Whether is catholic priests, mormon sects, damn politicians and voters or that nice man down the street, the kids don't matter near as much as the monsters who molest them.

Lying doesn't help your cause. Not does pretending to care for victims.

If you cared about the victims you wouldn't be ignoring their wishes on the matter. They've forgiven him

You also wouldn't be using them to attack their faith.

Which is what you really care about. You just want a weapon to attack Christianity. You didn't get this upset when you're heroes like Clinton are involved with underage sex trafficking

 

[Vandalshandle]

Question

If God knows everything, then why do you need to ask God for forgiveness? God already knows you wish to be forgiven, why do you need to tell God what he already knows?

Not to put too fine a point on it, but god has an ego problem. He wants you to beg him for this and that, but refuses to talk back. He wants praise all the time. He may, or may not answer your prayer requests, but it is beneath him to tell you why, or why not. He often takes a vacation, like he did throughout the Holocaust.

 

[Avatar4321]

The Holy Spirit speaks to man all time. Man is just often past feeling.

Do an experiment for 90 days. Study the Bible and Book of Mormong everyday. Apply the teachings to your life. Pray in the morning sincerely and at night. Talk with the Lord and then listen. Make a couple days for fasting (non consecutive and within reason)

If you have the faith to try this, I am confident you will hear the whispering of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Liffy]

I knew it was a mistake coming to this thread

 

[Avatar4321]

I wanted to write more on this thread tonight it bothers me that there are some here who seem to think you can't love both the victims and the sinner. It's blatantly untrue.

As disciples of Jesus Christ, we have an obligation to love both sinner and victim. The abused and the abuser. Because we believe the Savior died for both.

Because if Him the abused can be healed. The atonement has the power to heal all things. Even death will be overcome because of the atonement.

The abusers hurt themselves with their own choices. Christ gives even them the ability to be healed.

We can love both.

I have a friend who has struggled with drugs. I love him more than life itself. The fact that I love him doesn't mean I've ignored what he has done. He has hurt people because of.his drug use. His wife in particular has been hurt (not physically but in other ways). His actions have caused him jail time.

I know God loves Him. God loves me too for some reason and I'm intimately familiar with the stupid unkind stuff I've done.

Some people seem to think that because.he has struggled with poor life choices he should be a pariah. Why? Every one of us has made bad choices. Everyone. Honestly look at your heart and you know it to be true. Why should we as a society try to tell people they have no hope to change? It's not true.

No matter what we struggle with, no matter what we've done. We can change. Quite frankly every one of us has to change if we have any chance at keeping this world from destroying itself.

Josh Duggar changed. He made mistakes. He sought help. He submitted to the authorities. He paid to heal those he hurt. Why then should we treat him harshly? Especially when his victims don't.

He changed and every one of us can change because of Jesus christ. We don't have to feel hopeless and stuck. We can be transformed from the inside out.

As this is bad? Why is hope for people.bad? Don't we want sinners and criminals to change their ways? Why should we want mercy for ourselves and yet demand justice for others?

Justice has been paid if we.just reach out and accept the gift. Mercy given if we give it too.

 

[JoeB131]

not really a lie if they believed.. just sayin'

Yeah, I guess if you are a frustrated, self-loathing Lesbian, beleiving in a magic sky fairy who made you like other chicks was a form of relief.

Amazingly, after it became cool to be a Lesbian, women stopped signing up for these orders, and they turned all the convents into condos.

 

[NYcarbineer]

This is what fundie Christian theocracy would look like. 'Christian' child molesters getting a pass.

Hey, its not as though they're fetuses, you know.

Not surprising that the least "christian" of our posters think poor little victim Josh should be allowed to continue molesting little girls. Happily for Josh is that his wife will crank out new victims once every year or so.

Do you have evidence that he has continued to molest girls?

Otherwise you are just lying your butt off.

The problem here, and it is a problem, is the sudden outpouring of forgiveness, compassion, and magnanimity for a person who did what Josh Duggar did,

all coming from a certain partisan faction that in the past has never shown such sentiments for such behaviours, at least not publicly towards a public figure,

and all because the Duggars are of the same partisan faction.

Again, remember, this is the same faction that recently showed wide approval for the Jeb Bush idea of 'shaming'.

If 'shaming' is a good idea, who deserves shaming more than a teenage boy who molests his little sisters?

...the unwed teen mom? Really?

 

[Valerie]

Josh Duggar changed. He made mistakes. He sought help. He submitted to the authorities. He paid to heal those he hurt. Why then should we treat him harshly? Especially when his victims don't.

what about the victims of his political agenda who recognize the hypocrisy of his grandstanding which treats them harshly??

 

[NYcarbineer]

Since so many threads have been created about this issue, I thought I'd create a new one with a new perspective.

Of the many aspects of this scandal that have been debated, very few have touched on the fact that Josh Duggar knew what he did was wrong, repented of it, and asked forgiveness. He then walked free from his sins. It seems the gospel of Christ has been presented so often that we become jaded to it, but this serves as an opportunity to emphasize that what Josh Duggar did is available to anyone.....just for the asking.

Why is this in the politics section and not the religion section? Because those who with the greatest passion heap scorn and ridicule on Josh Duggar need to hear this message, that the Bible tells us clearly that all have sinned, every person incurring a dept that he or she cannot possibly repay. While we pat ourselves on the back because "at least" we didn't molest several underage girls when we were teenagers, it can easily be lost on us the sobering reality that EVERY SIN IS EQUAL IN ITS CAPACITY TO SEPARATE US ETERNALLY FROM THE LOVE OF GOD.

And though it might not seem fair for somebody else to pay in our stead the debt we amassed and by all rights should be made to pay for by ourselves, Jesus Christ offered up his life in atonement for the sins of humanity.

Yes, amazingly, HE LOVED US THAT MUCH!

Josh Duggar has experienced this incredible and free gift. So have I. And it's something that cannot be bought, earned, or worked for, it can only be received by asking. And those on this board so quick to condemn ought to consider that they themselves are guilty of sin, but also that they themselves can receive complete absolution for all their sins, just as so many have, by opening their heart to the mercy of God in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Just imagine how incredible it feels to have every terrible thing you ever did completely wiped clean, so that with unsullied hearts and minds, we can freely and without shame approach the glorious throne of God and look forward to the day we spend eternity with the joy of his friendship. Although I'm very rancorous on this forum in political debates, this is a time for me to be sincere and urge you with all my heart to give your lives to Christ and become a New Creation.

It's yours for the asking.

For all that ranting about forgiveness, let's look at what this poster considers unforgivable...

Will obama issue an EO rewriting Amendment 22 and then run for a third term Page 2 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

lolol

 

[Carla_Danger]

This is what fundie Christian theocracy would look like. 'Christian' child molesters getting a pass.

Don't you usually have to not be a child to be a child molester? Not saying his actions were right, but how is it accurate when you completely ignore.that he was a child himself when he did this?

Why should someone who makes a mistake have no hope? Should someone's past mistakes prevent them from moving on with life? Or should we forever condemn them?

Jesus Christ was born to give us hope. He lived and died so we could have a way to overcome the past mistakes that hold us back. He sacrificed Himself to free us from our addictions, our mistakes, and our corrupt nature.

Not one of us alive is free from mistakes. All of us need to repent and be born again. So why shouldn't we forgive someone who repented of their sins?

Don't you realize the whole point of helping people recognize their sins is to help them obtain forgiveness?

He made a mistake. But he and his family did the right thing and took responsibility for what happened. And they did that years ago.

At what point do we stop letting the past stigmatized his future?

Ever hear of penance? Do you know why prisons are called penitentiaries?

You mean the counseling and treatment he received years ago,that penance?

He did not receive any counseling, he was sent on a remodel project with another fellow pervert and friend of the family.