John Kerry: War Hero

[editec]

As to the issue of the wars crimes during the Viet Nam conflict?

I too heard numerous confessions about a war crimes by returning servicemen when I was a NAV corpsman.

I was dealing with the fallout of those war crimes as the people who perpetrated them often had severe psychological problems because it what they did or saw while serving in country..

So you tell yourselves whatever makes you feel okay, but those of us who were involved in that conflict heard PLENTY of first hand accounts of shit that went down there.

Incidently I also hear plenty of stories about our soldiers finding the victims of war crimes committed by the VC, too.

It was an ugly war, kiddies.

 

[9thIDdoc]

I was there. Kerry is a lying POS.

 

[Surfer]

I was responding to the post made by Surfer, a post which happened to be a bit off topic.

Off topic my (fine) ass. Kerry is exactly who I am describing--a fake, fraud, POS liberal.

 

[9thIDdoc]

Army CID Investigations of VVAW War Crimes Allegations


VVAW members are seen striking poses in a pamphlet for the 1971 "Winter Soldier" war crimes conference in Detroit



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In April 1971, Sen. Mark Hatfield placed transcripts from the Vietnam Veterans Against the War's "Winter Soldier Investigation" (WSI) war crimes conference into the Congressional Record. The House Committee on Armed Services responded by directing the Department of Defense to conduct a prompt review of the VVAW's allegations.
The Army's Criminal Investigation Division (CID) opened a case for each witness who claimed to have knowledge of criminal actions by the Army. These cases are described below, with links to the actual Army summary reports.

Note: Personal information and the names of non-VVAW witnesses have been redacted from the summary reports.



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The following are Army WSI witnesses investigated by the CID:
Note: Cases 1, 11, 19, 32 and 40 cover allegations made outside WSI by witnesses who also made WSI statements.



1. Beitzel, John, 21, Sgt. (E-5), 4/21, 11th Brigade, Americal Division (January 1969 to January 1970).


Allegation: 1) Indiscriminate firing upon unarmed Vietnamese, 2) Torture and maltreatment of prisoners/detainees, 3) Mutilation of dead bodies.
Investigation summary: Complainants Beitzel and Joseph Brenman refused to provide specific information to support their allegations, which were made in a venue other than WSI, but are basically the same. Joe Bangert (USMC) and Jeffrey Dubrow (USN) accompanied Beitzel and Brenman at the subject venue.

Result: Investigation terminated; insufficient evidence.

John Beitzel / Joseph Brenman CID Investigation Report


2. Bernath, Fred, 26, 1st Lt., 101st MP Co., 101st Airborne Division (December 1968 to October 1969).


Allegation: 1) Electrical torture of prisoners/detainees, 2) Gassing of civilians.
Investigation summary: Complainant submitted a sworn statement supporting his WSI claims, but was unable to identify any of the individuals involved or the date of the incident. He did name a possible witness who subsequently submitted a sworn statement denying any knowledge of the events alleged by Bernath.

Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.

Fred Bernath CID Investigation Report


3. Bunge, Sam, 1st Lt., "B" Co., 3/187, 101st Airborne Division (July 1968 to June 1969).


Allegation: 1) Attempted murder of Vietnamese male, 2) Desecration of graves, 3) Gassing of Vietnamese civilians.
Investigation summary: Complainant repeated WSI claims but refused to sign a written statement. He provided names of possible witnesses but did not name any of those allegedly involved, including his former commanding officer. Interviews with former members of Bunge's unit and his former commanding officers revealed no evidence that supported the allegations.

Result: Investigation completed; supplemental investigative efforts completed; unfounded.

Sam Bunge CID Investigation Report


4. Butts, Dennis, 24, SP/4 (E-4), HHQ Co., 2/12, 25th Infantry Division and "E" Co., 4/39, 9th Infantry Division (September 1966 to September 1967).


Allegation: 1) Indiscriminate killing and wounding of Vietnamese civilians, 2) Destruction of private property.
Investigation summary: Complainant refused to cooperate without immunity on advice of VVAW counsel.

Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.

Dennis Butts CID Investigation Report


5. Byrne, Kevin, 21, Sgt. (E-5), 42nd Scout Dog, 1st Brigade, 101st Airborne Division (November 1968 to November 1969).


Allegation: 1) Attempted murder of an NVA officer, 2) Failure to render medical treatment, 3) Indiscriminate use of fire power, 4) Destruction of private property.
Investigation summary: Complainant refused to answer questions or provide further information for fear of "causing trouble for the peons instead of the generals."

Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.

Kevin Byrne CID Investigation Report


6. Caldwell, Dennis, 24, CWO-2, "A" Trp., 3/17, Air Cav., 1st Aviation Brigade (October 1968 to October 1969).


Allegation: 1) Murder of unidentified Vietnamese, 2) Indiscriminate use of fire power, 3) Indiscriminate destruction of villages, 4) Gassing (tear gas) of civilians and livestock, 5) Aggravated assault on a prisoner.
Investigation summary: Complainant refused to answer any questions or provide further information.

Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.

Dennis Caldwell CID Investigation Report


7. Chiles, David, 24, SP/4 (E-4), 3/4, 25th Infantry Division (January 1968 to December 1968).


Allegation: 1) Mutilation of enemy corpse, 2) Indiscriminate killing of two Vietnamese children and an elderly Vietnamese man.
Investigation summary: Counsel present at interview. Complainant declined to provide any substantive information, saying he would testify only before a Congressional Committee.

Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.

David Chiles CID Investigation Report


8. Craig, Douglas, 22, SP/4, "D" Co., 2nd Bn., 8th Brigade, 1st Air Cav. Division (December 1968 to August 1969).


Allegation: 1) Murder of unidentified Vietnamese.
Investigation summary: Complainant stated that he had no direct information that civilians were killed and no direct knowledge of the alleged event. He further stated that he had misgivings about testifying at Detroit, as he could not substantiate the allegations.

Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.

Douglas Craig CID Investigation Report


9. Craig, Larry, 29, SP/4, Public Information Office, 25th Infantry Division (1966 to 1967).


Allegation: 1) Murder of unidentified prisoner, 2) Desecration of a grave.
Investigation summary: Complainant backtracked on his WSI testimony and was unable to provide specific information or identify any U.S or Vietnamese personnel.

Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.

Larry Craig CID Investigation Report


10. Donner, Donald, 24, SP/4 (E-4), 20th Brigade, 86th Combat Engineers (August 1967 to July 1968).


Allegation: 1) Murder of a Vietnamese male, 2) Wounding of a 14-year-old Vietnamese girl, 3) Dereliction in the performance of duty, 4) Indiscriminate killing of livestock, 5) Failure to bury enemy dead.
Investigation summary: Complainant characterized the alleged incidents as accidental, misrepresented by him at WSI, or known to him only by hearsay.

Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.

Donald Donner CID Investigation Report


11. Drolshagen, Jon, 26, 1st Lt., 25th Infantry Division (1966 to 1967).


Allegation: 1) Murder and torture of unknown Vietnamese nationals.
Investigation summary: CID statement refers to allegations made in different venue, six months prior to WSI, by Drolshagen, Edward Barbour (former SP4, 101st Airborne Division) and Frederick Morton (former E5, 11th Armed Cavalry Regiment). Subjects refused to make written statements or to answer questions concerning their allegations.

Result: Investigation completed; case closed.

Note: Drolshagen's statement at WSI was considerably less specific than his earlier allegation that a major had committed torture and murder. At WSI, Drolshagen spoke vaguely of a major's participation in unspecified activities.

Edward Barbour / Jon Drolshagen / Frederick Morton CID Investigation Report


12. Duffy, James, 23, SP/5 (E-5), 228 Aviation Bn., 1st Air Cav. Division (February 1967 to April 1968).


Allegation: 1) Negligent homicide of unidentified Vietnamese child, 2) Maltreatment of prisoners, 3) Assault, 4) Destruction of private property.
Investigation summary: Investigators were unable to contact complainant.

Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.

James Duffy CID Investigation Report


13. Dzagulones, Don, 23, SP/5, 635th Military Intelligence Detachment, attached to 11th Infantry Brigade, Americal Division (January 1969 to December 1969).


Allegation: 1) Torture and assault of prisoners / VC suspects.
Investigation summary: Complainant refused to answer any questions. Investigators were unable to identify the unidentified major referred to in the allegations.

Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.

Don Dzagulones CID Investigation Report


14. Erard, Michael, 29, SP/5 (E-5), 3/503, 173rd Airborne Brigade (April 1969 to March 1970).


Allegation: 1) Murder of unidentified Vietnamese civilians, 2) Failure to take prisoners.
Investigation summary: Complainant refused to make any statement or provide any information.

Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.

Michael Erard CID Investigation Report


15. Farrell, Michael, 24, SP/4 (E-4), "A" Co., 2/60, 9th Infantry Division (January 1967 to January 1968).


Allegation: 1) Murder of a Vietnamese child, 2) Maltreatment of a prisoner, 3) Destruction of crops and livestock.
Investigation summary: Complainant refused to make any statements or provide any information on advice of attorney.

Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.

Michael Farrell CID Investigation Report


16. Galbally, Joe, 23, SP/4 (E-4), 1/6, 198 LIB, Americal Division (October 1967 to April 1968).


Allegation: 1) Murder of unidentified Vietnamese, 2) Rape, 3) Assault.
Investigation summary: Efforts to locate complainant were unsuccessful.

Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.

Joe Galbally CID Investigation Report


17. Hagelin, Timon, 21, SP/4 (E-4), Graves Registration Platoon, 243 Field Serv. Co., 1st Logistics Command (August 1968 to August 1969).


Allegation: 1) Assault of unidentified Vietnamese civilians.
Investigation summary: Complainant refused to answer any questions.

Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.

Timon Hagelin CID Investigation Report


18. Hartner, John, 26, Sgt. (E-5), H & HD 3rd Brigade, H & HD 2nd Brigade, 4th Infantry Division (November 1969 to August 1970).


Allegation: 1) Murder of a Vietnamese baby, 2) Wounding of three Vietnamese women, 3) Suppression of the above information.
Investigation summary: In a sworn statement, complainant refused to provide any information.

Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.

John Hartner CID Investigation Report


19. Henry, James, 23, Sgt., 1st Bn., 3/35th, 4th Infantry Division (August 1967 to August 1968).


Allegation: 1) Murder, 2) Rape, 3) Maltreatment of unidentified Vietnamese.
Investigation summary: Complainant submitted a sworn statement. An extensive investigation failed to reveal sufficient evidence to prove or disprove the allegations. Subsequent supplementary investigative efforts revealed that a group of unarmed civilians may in fact have been killed by members of Company B, 1/35th Infantry on February 8, 1968. That investigation was ongoing at the time of this report.

Result: Investigation completed; supplemental investigation in progress.

Note: The CID statement refers to allegations made in several different venues a year prior to WSI, and repeated there. See also Civilian Killings Went Unpunished, Los Angeles Times, August 6, 2006. This is the only known WSI allegation for which there is substantiation.

James Henry CID Investigation Report


20. Henry, John, 26, SP/4, 2/60, 1/11 Artillery, 9th Infantry Division (March 1968 to February 1969).


Allegation: 1) Maltreatment of prisoners and Vietnamese civilians, 2) Destruction of livestock and private property.
Investigation summary: Complainant could not be located.

Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.

John Henry CID Investigation Report


21. Hunter, Michael, 24, Sgt (E-5), "B" Co., 5/7 Air Cav. Reg., 1st Air Cav. Division (February 1968 to February 1969); "H" Co., 75th Rangers, attached to 1st Air Cav. Div.; "I" Co., 75th Rangers, attached to 1st Inf. Division (September 1969 to March 1970).


Allegation: 1) Murder of unidentified Vietnamese, 2) Mutilation of corpses, 3) Desecration of graves and destruction of private property, 4) Rape, 5) Refusing to render medical aid, 6) Gassing of Vietnamese civilians (tear gas).
Investigation summary: Complainant admitted his own offenses orally but would not make a written statement or provide times, dates or names. Numerous former members of Hunter's unit denied his allegations. One witness said that Hunter had killed a Vietnamese man without orders while walking point on a patrol.

Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.

Michael Hunter CID Investigation Report


22. Keyes, Gary, 22, SP/4, "E" Troop, 1st Cav. Reg., 11th Brigade, Americal Division (April 1969 to March 1970).


Allegation: 1) Gassing of villages, 2) Aggravated assault, 3 Destruction of private property.
Investigation summary: Complainant refused to answer any questions.

Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.

Gary Keyes CID Investigation Report


23. Keys, Eugene, 25, SP/4 (E-4), 3/4 25th Infantry Division (February 1966 to February 1967).


Allegation: 1) Forced evacuation of Vietnamese villages, 2) Destruction of private property.
Investigation summary: Complainant said he would only make a statement to a joint session of Congress.

Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.

Eugene Keys CID Investigation Report


24. Kogut, Russell, 22, WO-1, 155 Assault Helicopter Co. (May 1968 to March 1969).


Allegation: 1) Murder of unidentified Vietnamese, 2) Aggravated assault, 3) Looting and destruction of private property, 4) Forced evacuation of Vietnamese villages.
Investigation summary: Complainant said a VVAW staffer told him that VVAW's lawyers advised him not to make any statement.

Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.

Russell Kogut CID Investigation Report


25. Lenix, Mark, 24, 1st Lt., 1/11th Arty. and 2/39 Infantry, 9th Infantry Division (1968 to 1969).


Allegation: 1) Murder of prisoners and unidentified Vietnamese, 2) Indiscriminate use of fire power, 3) Looting and destruction of private property, 4) Forced evacuation of Vietnamese civilians.
Investigation summary: Complainant refused to provide any information concerning his allegations.

Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.

Mark Lenix CID Investigation Report


26. Lloyd, Murphy, 27, Sgt. (E-5), "D" Co., 4th Bn., 173 Airborne Brigade (February 1967 to February 1968).


Allegation: 1) Murder of prisoners, 2) Torture and maiming of prisoners.
Investigation summary: Complainant refused to answer any questions on advice of lawyer.

Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.

Murphy Lloyd CID Investigation Report


27. Lytle, John, 24, SP/4 (E-4), "E" Co., 6/15 Arty., 1st Infantry Division (August 1967 to March 1969).


Allegation: 1) Indiscriminate use of fire power, 2) Destruction of private property.
Investigation summary: Complainant backtracked on his WSI allegation that villages were targeted indiscriminately, saying that the villages were fired on because it was suspected that VC occupied them and because incoming fire had been received. Lytle was unable to identify any personnel involved or name specific incidents.

Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.

John Lytle CID Investigation Report


28. MacKay, James, 20, Sgt. (E-5), HHQ 3rd Brigade, 9th Inf. Div. (October 1968 to August 1970).


Allegation: 1) Murder of Vietnamese civilians, 2) Maltreatment of enemy dead, 3) Destruction of private property.
Investigation summary: Complainant could not be located.

Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.

James MacKay CID Investigation Report


29. Mallory, John, 24, Captain, 1st Sq., 11th Arm. Cav. Reg., 1st Air Cav. Division (May 1969 to May 1970).


Allegation: 1) Murder of unidentified Vietnamese, 2) Desecration of enemy graves, 3) Aggravated assault, 4) Larceny and destruction of private property.
Investigation summary: Complainant refused to provide any specific information or identify any of the persons allegedly involved. He said he and the VVAW were only interested in initiating a Congressional investigation into U.S. policy in Vietnam.

Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.

John Mallory CID Investigation Report


30. McConnachie, Robert, 22, Sgt. (E-5), 2/28th, 1st Infantry (October 1967 to October 1968).


Allegation: 1) Involuntary manslaughter of unidentified Vietnamese civilians, 2) Indiscriminate use of fire power.
Investigation summary: Complainant backtracked on his WSI allegations, saying that no Vietnamese children were actually killed by troops throwing C-ration cans at them. He also said he now believed that the alleged killing of civilians in a hospital by artillery fire was accidental.

Result: Investigation completed; unsubstantiated.

Robert McConnachie CID Investigation Report


31. Misiaszek, Michael, 22, SP/4 (E-4), 1st Brigade, 101st Airborne Division, FSSE (December 1968 to January 1970).


Allegation: 1) Desecration of graves, 2) Destruction of private property.
Investigation summary: Complainant made oral and written statements, but was unable to substantiate his WSI allegations. Investigation disproved one of his allegations, that Army engineers plowed under Vietnamese graves while constructing a stadium.

Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.

Michael Misiaszek CID Investigation Report


32. Noetzel, Steve, 31, SP/4, 5th Special Forces Group Augmentation (May 1963 to May 1964).


Allegation: 1) Murder of unidentified prisoners / detainees, 2) Inhumane treatment of prisoners.
Investigation summary: The CID statement refers to allegations made in another venue nine months prior to WSI, but the main allegation is basically the same. Complainant Noetzel repeated his allegations orally, but returned a written summary unsigned. An extensive investigation failed to substantiate Noetzel's allegations.

Result: Investigation completed; unfounded / insufficient evidence.

Gordon Livingston / Robert Johnson / Steve Noetzel CID Investigation Report


33. Ostrenga, Patrick, "D" Co., 25th Infantry Division (February to December - year unknown).


Allegation: 1) Murder of unidentified Vietnamese, 2) Refusing to render medical treatment to wounded prisoners and Vietnamese.
Investigation summary: Complainant refused to provide any information concerning his allegations.

Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.

Patrick Ostrenga CID Investigation Report


34. Palosaari, Ronald, 23, SP/4, 1/6, 198 LIB, Americal Division (1967 to 1968).


Allegation: 1) Murder of unidentified Vietnamese, 2) Mutilation of corpse.
Investigation summary: Complainant was unable to provide specific dates, locations or names of individuals allegedly involved, and backtracked on his WSI allegation that he had witnessed the mutilation of enemy dead.

Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.

Ronald Palosaari CID Investigation Report


35. Perry, Bill, 23, Pfc. (E-3), "A" Co., 1/506, 101st Airborne Division (November 1966 to August 1968).


Allegation: 1) Indiscriminate use of fire power, 2) Mutilation of corpses.
Investigation summary: Complainant could not be located.

Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.

Bill Perry CID Investigation Report


36. Podlaski, Ron, 24, Sgt. (E-5), 5th Special Forces Group (April 1968 to April 1969).


Allegation: 1) Murder of prisoners, Vietnamese civilians and a Laotian national, 2) Destruction of private property.
Investigation summary: Complainant declined to answer questions pending advice from his attorney, then moved and could not be located.

Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.

Ron Podlaski CID Investigation Report


37. Pugsley, Don, 23, SP/4, 5th Special Forces (October 1969 to December 1969).


Allegation: 1) Indiscriminate destruction of livestock.
Investigation summary: Complainant said in a sworn statement that the strafing of water buffalo he alleged at WSI did not actually occur.

Result: Investigation completed; unsubstantiated.

Don Pugsley CID Investigation Report


38. Rice, William, 21, SP/4, 3/47th and HQ, 3rd Brigade, 9th Infantry Division (January 1969 to January 1970).


Allegation: 1) Murder of prisoners, 2) Torture of prisoners, 3) Maltreatment of prisoners.
Investigation summary: Complainant declined to make any statements or provide any information concerning his allegations.

Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.

William Rice CID Investigation Report


39. Rippberger, Carl, 23, (E-4), "K" Troop, 3rd Squad, 11th Armored Cav. Reg., attached to 9th Infantry Division (May 1967 to May 1968).


Allegation: 1) Torture and maltreatment of prisoners, 2) Failure to bury enemy dead, 3) Destruction of private property.
Investigation summary: Complainant refused to provide any information concerning his allegations on advice from his attorney.

Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.

Carl Rippberger CID Investigation Report


40. Rottmann, Larry, 25, 1st Lt., Public Information Office, 25th Infantry Division (June 1967 to March 1968).


Allegation: 1) Presence of nerve agents in Vietnam, 2) Suppression of war crime information from news media, 3) Wearing of ears and scalps by US forces, 4) Murder of enemy personnel attempting to surrender, 5) Destruction of Vietnamese villages by bombing and napalm, 6) Torture of VC/NVA.
Investigation summary: The CID statement refers to allegations made at two different venues, nine months and two months prior to WSI. Rottman's WSI testimony was about military press censorship and he did not allege any war crimes there. Attempts to contact the complainant were unsuccessful. The case was closed due to the lack of cooperation and the lack of any definitive leads.

Result: Investigation completed; case closed.

Larry Rottmann / Michael Uhl CID Investigation Report

Note: The CID also investigated an allegation by Rottmann that General Westmoreland had ordered the destruction of a village in the Mekong Delta. This allegation was determined to be unfounded.

Larry Rottmann CID Investigation Report


41. Ruth, Kenneth, 26, (E-4), HHQ Co., 2/12 Air Cav. Reg., 1st Air Cav. Div. (February 1966 to February 1967).


Allegation: 1) Torture of VC suspects, 2) Indiscriminate use of fire power, resulting in the injury of 43 Vietnamese civilians.
Investigation summary: Complainant's WSI allegations were found to be unsubstantiated. He also backtracked on an additional claim made in a LIFE Magazine article, stating to investigators that he had no personal knowledge of casualties as a result of the test firing of weapons.

Result: Investigation completed; unsubstantiated.

Kenneth Ruth CID Investigation Report


42. Schorr, Sam, SP/4 (E-4), 86th Combat Engineers (September 1966 to September 1967).


Allegation: 1) Murder of unidentified Vietnamese, 2) Desecration of graves, 3 Destruction of private property.
Investigation summary: Complainant refused to answer any questions about his allegations. He further stated that if the President of the United States was investigated for war crimes, he would release information relative to his testimony.

Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.

Sam Schorr CID Investigation Report


43. Shepard, Franklin, 23, S. Sgt. (E-6), 5/60, 9th Infantry Division (March 1968 to August 1969).


Allegation: 1) Mutilation of enemy dead and unidentified Vietnamese.
Investigation summary: Complainant provided a written, sworn statement in support of his allegation. Multiple witnesses interviewed contradicted Shepard's claims, and further investigation also failed to support his statements.

Result: Investigation completed; unsubstantiated.

Franklin Shepard CID Investigation Report


44. Smith, George, (E-6), 5th Special Forces; taken prisoner by the NLF in 1963 and released in November 1965.


Allegation: 1) Maltreatment of prisoners.
Investigation summary: Complainant backtracked on his WSI allegations, stating that Vietnamese troops rather than American troops had committed illegal acts.

Result: Investigation completed; unsubstantiated.

George Smith CID Investigation Report


45. Stark, David, 25, SP/5 (E-5), 524 Military Intelligence Detachment (October 1967 to October 1968).


Allegation: 1) Indiscriminate use of fire power resulting in the deaths of unidentified Vietnamese, 2) Maltreatment of prisoners.
Investigation summary: Complainant backtracked on his WSI allegations, saying that he had not witnessed the maltreatment of prisoners, and that he saw no bodies and could not identify the military units involved in the alleged events.

Result: Investigation completed; unsubstantiated.

David Stark CID Investigation Report


46. Stephens, Charles, 24, Pfc. (E-3), 1/327, 101st Airborne Division (December 1965 to February 1967).


Allegation: 1) Murder of Vietnamese civilians and prisoners, 2) Mutilation of enemy dead, 3) Indiscriminate use of fire power, 4) Refusing to render medical aid.
Investigation summary: Complainant refused to provide any statement on advice of counsel concerning both WSI and LIFE Magazine allegations.

Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.

Charles Stephens CID Investigation Report


47. Weber, Jim, 24, Sgt. (E-5), "A" Co., 1/6 and 1/46, 198 LIB, Americal Division (November 1967 to November 1968).


Allegation: 1) Murder of unidentified Vietnamese and prisoners, 2) Assault, 3) Destruction of private property.
Investigation summary: Complainant refused to provide any statement, saying the only subject he would identify was President Johnson.

Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.

Jim Weber CID Investigation Report


48. Wiktorski, Robert, 22, SP/4 (E-4), "C" Co., 2/12 Air Cav. Reg., 1st Air Cav. Div.(May 1968 to May 1969).


Allegation: 1) Murder of unidentified North Vietnamese Army soldier, 2) Aggravated assault.
Investigation summary: Complainant refused to make any statement or provide any information.

Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.

Robert Wiktorski CID Investigation Report



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The following are Army WSI witnesses whose available summary reports show inconclusive preliminary investigations:
1. Bezanson, William, 24, Pfc., 4/3, 11th Brigade, Americal Division and 123rd Aviation Bn. (1967 to 1968).
Allegation: 1) Torture of enemy prisoners, 2) Indiscriminate killing of 15 unidentified Vietnamese civilians, 3) Destruction of private property.
Preliminary investigation summary: Unable to identify complainant.
2. Crouse, Allan, 22 (E-4), 3rd Engineers Brigade, 82nd Airborne Division (January 1969 to December 1969).
Allegation: 1) Destruction of private property.
Preliminary investigation summary: Unable to identify complainant.
3. Hopkins, Barry, 23, 3/39th, 9th Infantry Division (January 1969 to January 1970).
Allegation: 1) Murder, 2) Maltreatment of female prisoners, 3) Failure to render medical treatment to prisoner.
Preliminary investigation summary: Unable to identify complainant.

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The following are Army WSI witnesses for whom no summary reports have been found:
1. Bjornson, Dr. Jon, 37, Major, Psychiatrist, Flight Surgeon, Deputy Surgeon, USASC, 8th Field Hospital, Nha Trang (May 1964 to April 1965).


Summary of WSI allegations: Asserted that war crimes are routinely committed by the U.S. military. Theorized about causes of criminal violence in troops, promotes widespread drug abuse exaggerations, and blamed the American system for evil nature of troops. Quoted Marx. No claim to have personal knowledge of war crimes.
2. Braum, David, 25, SP/5, 21 Trans. Co., 119 Avn. Co. Airmobile, 52 Combat Avn. Bn., 52 Prov. Plt., Delta Bn. (1963-1964).
Summary of WSI allegations: Moderator of "Weapons Panel" at WSI. Made the absurd claim that "...in civilian life I was, for five years, purchasing all materials and supplies for the United States Air Force, the U.S. Navy, the Atomic Energy Commission, the Army and the CIA...." Characterized various weapons systems as de facto illegal and/or immoral. Provided slides for presentation that depicted equipment, not events.
3. Carey, Orville, 1st Logistics Command. Postal clerk in Pleiku, Vietnam. Appeared on "Third World Panel" at WSI.
Summary of WSI allegations: No allegations of war crimes. Alleged racism in Army, stating, "We [in U.S. Army, Germany] had Klansmen... and this was more or less accepted as policy. Nobody worried about cross burnings or stuff... There was no chance for a promotion. You were handed out all the vile details... The only way I could get out of Germany was to volunteer to go to Vietnam."
4. Crandell, William, 26, 1LT, 199th LIB, Americal Division. Made "Opening Statement" at WSI.
Summary of WSI allegations: Generalizations about genocide and pervasive war crimes as a result of policy.

5. Crumb, Jan, 28, SP/4, 18th Aviation Co. (December 1961 to October 1963). Moderator, along with John Kerry, of "Miscellaneous Panel" at WSI.
Summary of WSI allegations: No discernible record of remarks. The caption "Moderator" is used throughout in the transcript, not distinguishing between the two moderators.
6. Duncan, Don, M/Sgt., 5th Special Forces (1964 to 1965). Made "Closing Statement" at WSI.
Summary of WSI allegations: Generalizations. Blamed entire country and media for atrocities. "It has been done systematically, deliberately, and continuously...." Argued that American schools and American society need to be changed. "...I think the fact that so much can be done to so many men by so few people is the greatest testament to the fact that our colleges, our high schools, our everyday life is nothing but pre-basic training."
7. Egendorf, Arthur, 525 Military Intelligence Group, Saigon. Appeared on "What Are We Doing To Ourselves Panel" at WSI.
Summary of WSI allegations: Said that he went to Harvard and majored in economics. "...the institutions of this society are very much a part of the phenomenon that we're discussing..." Claimed that corporations and the media were providing cover identities for covert operatives. No specific war crimes allegations.
8. Galicia, Dr. David, Major, Psychiatrist, 3rd Field Hospital, Saigon (July 1969 to June 1970). Appeared on "Medical Panel" at WSI.
Summary of WSI allegations: Testified about the poor condition, as he saw it, of medical and psychiatric services. Spoke of drug abuse among troops, lack of American medical care for Vietnamese, and criticized the effects of some incendiary weapons. No war crimes allegations.
9. Grosso, Dr. Joseph, 31, Captain, General Medical Officer, 173rd Airborne Brigade, Field Hospital, Nha Trang (April 1967 to December 1967). Appeared on "Medical Panel" at WSI.
Summary of WSI allegations: Claimed that the Army's Medical Civil Action Program (MedCap) "...was an attempt to use the practice of medicine as a propaganda device" Alleged that "...it was more or less command policy that prostitution be part of the military operation." No war crimes allegations.
10. Hale, Nathan, 23, SP/5, 199th LIB, Americal Division (December 1967 to December 1968). Appeared on "3rd Marine Division Panel" at WSI.
Summary of WSI allegations: Claimed that "...in January of '68 I was assigned to the 1st Cav., Americal Division." -- The 1st Cav. and the Americal are two different divisions. Said that he took part in a Marine mission called Daring Endeavors, south of Da Nang, during October 1968. Displayed slides purportedly showing Vietnamese National Field Police interrogating a prisoner using torture. Hale claimed he also used torture to interrogate enemy prisoners, and alleged that an enemy combatant died as result of the use of CS (tear) gas in a tunnel.
Note: A memo dated 21 April 1971 from Col. Tufts (head of CID) to CoS, U.S. Army, stated that Hale's complaint was under investigation. No other CID documents available to date refer to his allegations.
11. Kruch, Robert, 25, Pfc. (E-3), Co. A, 3/21, 196 LIB, Americal Division. Appeared on "Americal Division Panel" at WSI.
Summary of WSI allegations: Talks about poor leadership and maltreatment of U.S. troops by commanders. Says his company refused "to go back out" at one point. No war crimes allegations.
12. Light, William, 22 (E-3), "E" Co., 1/6, 198 LIB, Americal Division (May 1968 to June 1969). Appeared at "Third World Panel" at WSI.
Summary of WSI allegations: Generalized remarks about racism. No war crimes allegations. Received a General Discharge.
13. McSheffrey, Ron, 6/31 9th Infantry Division (1969-1970). Appeared on "What Are We Doing To Ourselves Panel" at WSI, erroneously listed as "Dr." McSheffrey.
Summary of WSI allegations: Tells of his drug addiction in Vietnam. No war crimes allegations. Received a "212 discharge" - namely, "honorable wartime service subsequent to desertion."
14. Moore, Scott, 26, 1st Lt., 2/39th, 9th Infantry Division (1968 to 1969). Appeared on the "1st, 4th and 9th Infantry Divisions Panel" at WSI.
Summary of WSI allegations: Generalized complaints. No war crimes allegations."
15. Murphy, Ed, 23, Sgt. (E-5), 1/6, 198 LIB, Americal Division (October 1967 to September 1968). Appeared on "Miscellaneous Panel" at WSI.
Summary of WSI allegations: Testimony consists of one paragraph of generalized remarks affirming the testimony of others.
Note: A memo dated 21 April 1971 from Col. Tufts (head of CID) to CoS, U.S. Army, stated that Murphy's complaint was under investigation. No other CID documents available to date refer to his allegations.
16. Newton, Ron, 24, Pfc. (E-3), 3rd Brigade, HHQ Co., 704 Maintenance Bn., 4th Infantry Division (July 1966 to June 1967). Appeared on "1st, 4th and 9th Infantry Divisions Panel" at WSI.
Summary of WSI allegations: Complains about Army training, poor medical care and alleged racism towards Vietnamese. No war crimes allegations."
17. Novick, Wayne, 22, SP/4, 1st En., 26th Inf., 1st Inf. Division (February 1969 to February 1970). Moderator of the "1st, 4th and 9th Infantry Divisions Panel" at WSI.
Summary of WSI allegations: Asked questions of witnesses. No independent war crimes allegations.
18. Pitkin, Steve, 20, SP/4, "C" Co., 2/239, 9th Infantry Division (May 1969 to July 1969). Appeared on "Miscellaneous Panel" at WSI.
Summary of WSI allegations: Said that he would "...testify about the beating of civilians and enemy personnel, destruction of villages, indiscriminate use of artillery, the general racism and the attitude of the American GI toward the Vietnamese." This was followed by generalized complaining about the military. No specific war crimes allegations.
Note: Pitkin publicly recanted his participation in WSI in 2004, saying in a signed affidavit that he had been pressured to present false testimony about war crimes in Vietnam by other VVAW members, including John Kerry.
19. Primm, Alex, 26, SP/4 (E-4), Public Information Office, 1st Logistics Command, Headquarters (September 1968 to June 1969). Appeared on "25th Infantry Division and Public Information Office Panel" at WSI.
Summary of WSI allegations: Complained about military and other news reporting. No war crimes allegations.
20. Romo, Barry, 23, 1st Lt., "A" Co., 2/1, 196 LIB, "C" Co., 3/4, 11th Inf. Brigade, Americal Division (June 1967 to November 1968). Moderator of the "Americal Division Panel" at WSI.
Summary of WSI allegations: Mostly generalizations about racism toward Latinos. He is Chicano and became a commissioned officer at age 19. No war crimes allegations.
21. Shibla, Vernon, 27, SP/4, Public Information Office, 25th Infantry Division (1966 to 1967). Appeared on "25th Infantry Division and Public Information Office Panel" at WSI.
Summary of WSI allegations: Complained about Army Public Information policies of censorship. No war crimes allegations.
22. Umenhofer, James, SP/4 (E-4), 2/501, 101st Airborne Division (November 1969 to October 1970). Appeared on the "82nd and 101st Airborne Divisions and 173rd Airborne Brigade Panel" at WSI.
Summary of WSI allegations: Mostly generalizations. One allegation of racially motivated fragging.
23. Williams, Donald P. Did not serve in Vietnam. Claimed 8 years active duty service, units not revealed. Said he deserted to Sweden after his unit was deployed to Saigon in March 1968. Appeared on "Third World Panel" at WSI.
Summary of WSI allegations: Complained of racism. Falsely claimed that "...statistics say that blacks constitute only ten percent of the total population in the United States, yet they represent at least forty percent of the fighting forces in Vietnam." Proposed smoking grass as an antidote to racism.
24. Wingrodski, Curtis, 22, SP/4, 59th Scout Dog, 11th Brigade, Americal Division (March 1969 to October 1969). Appeared on the "Americal Division Panel" at WSI.
Summary of WSI allegations: Testimony is brief, lacking any content. No war crimes allegations.
25. Wright, Doug, SP/4, 1/6, 198 LIB, Americal Division. Appeared on "Americal Division Panel" at WSI.
Summary of WSI allegations: Testimony is brief, lacking any content. "And these things go on..." "Here I am, you know." No war crimes allegations.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Thanks to John Boyle for making these reports available and providing summary information.



Last Updated Tuesday, March 04 2008 @ 03:37 PM EST; 29,420 Hits View Printable Version








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[sambino510]

I guess you haven't read my posts on Kerry.

The man met with representatives of the North Vietnamese government and rubber-stamped their terms for a US surrender.

Normal people call that treason.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/262447-john-kerry-unfit-for-service.html

I'm not saying you're wrong, but do you have a link to your sources that show that John Kerry met with the NVA leaders?

In the thread I linked. Reading is fun!

Sorry, I read this post before I had watched his testimony. He did meet with NVA leaders but not on some personal, secretive level. He met with both sides in peace talks and, I would assume (since he had no position of authority) had no influence on either side.

 

[sambino510]

I was responding to the post made by Surfer, a post which happened to be a bit off topic.

Off topic my (fine) ass. Kerry is exactly who I am describing--a fake, fraud, POS liberal.

Well whether it was on topic or off topic, I was accused of being off topic while responding to your post..which doesn't make much sense. Either way, i find it hard to believe that liberals are responsible for all the evils of this world. That's all I'm saying.

 

[The Gadfly]

As to the issue of the wars crimes during the Viet Nam conflict?

I too heard numerous confessions about a war crimes by returning servicemen when I was a NAV corpsman.

I was dealing with the fallout of those war crimes as the people who perpetrated them often had severe psychological problems because it what they did or saw while serving in country..

So you tell yourselves whatever makes you feel okay, but those of us who were involved in that conflict heard PLENTY of first hand accounts of shit that went down there.

Incidently I also hear plenty of stories about our soldiers finding the victims of war crimes committed by the VC, too.

It was an ugly war, kiddies.

Yes, it WAS an ugly war; wars are like that, which is why most of us who have actually fought one, would prefer not to fight another. It's not that we're ashamed of what we did; it's that we have seen, heard, felt, and done things that horrified us, enraged us, shocked us, hurt us, and made us afraid. I don't blame any man who experiences that, and after it's over, questions why it had to be, or even decides to oppose the policies that led to and continue it. I don't even have a problem with a man who receives a decoration, and later decides he doesn't want it; on a personal note, I'd trade every piece of metal and cloth the army ever gave me for doing my job, for bringing just one of the guys I lost safely home to his family, instead of in a coffin. I do not have a problem with anyone who PERSONALLY witnessed conduct that violated orders, regulations, or the ROE, reporting that to his chain of command, or once out of uniform, going public with it, if he feels it was not investigated and dealt with. That's not just a right, it's a duty.

That said, I DO have a problem with ANYONE who presents hearsay about alleged "atrocities" as the gospel truth, whether in public or private; or even worse, knowingly produces testimony from people who were not present at the alleged event, or indeed even in-country, as supposed evidence of such conduct. Were there atrocities committed by Americans in Vietnam? Of course, and some of them are well-documented (and many were in fact investigated and punished by the military services). Over two-and-a-half million of us served there, and a comparative few did things that were across a very bright line; but the truth is, that the vast majority of us emphatically DID NOT. We did our best to behave honorably, and we did not, we damn well DID NOT, go around raping women, burning down villages for the hell of it, abusing Vietnamese civilians, or deliberately killing obvious noncombatants. We may not have acted like a bunch of altruistic boy scouts, but we didn't act like a band of brigands either, and that's the truth. Those of us who served in Vietnam are a band of brothers, or at least try to be. So, when any of our own decided for whatever personal reasons or agenda, to embellish and outright falsify what went on, or deliberately sought out false testimony that directly or by implication presents a false and dishonorable picture of the rest of us, then you're damn right, I'm offended! That's wrong; it it is especially wrong, when a former officer does it. It's as wrong as the untrue stereotypes that paint us as a bunch of maladjusted, drug and alcohol-addicted losers, when most of us have in fact adjusted well to civilian life, and been successful, even in spite of emotional and physical scars. It's wrong, when any of us chooses to misrepresent who the rest of us were, and what we did, for the sake of ANY personal agenda, however noble.

Who's a hero? All of us, most of us, some of us, any of us? I don't pretend to know. The plain fact is, most of us were scared kids, some of us trying to lead other scared kids, in a difficult situation in a strange country halfway around the world, while back home, life went on as usual for people second-guessing everything we did from the comfort of their living rooms.. Personally, I feel more like a survivor, than anything else. I just think we all deserve just a little better, though, than being portrayed as monsters, willing dupes, or hapless victims; and the way John Kerry decided to handle this, did exactly that. Whatever else he did, in Vietnam or since, he DID do that; he chose to do it, no one made him do it, and he is responsible for it. He chose to throw his brothers-in-arms under the bus for the sake of a political agenda. I don't claim to know much, but I do know a little something about honor and leadership, and that's neither.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Kerry was a subversive who built a fake resume as a "War Hero" just come out later to undermine public support for our troops, so of course he'd have a stellar career in the DemoCCCPrat Party

Tell us about your service CrusaderFrank. Oh yeah, 4-F, I forgot. Was it mental or physical? I'd bet both.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Kerry was a subversive who built a fake resume as a "War Hero" just come out later to undermine public support for our troops, so of course he'd have a stellar career in the DemoCCCPrat Party

Tell us about your service CrusaderFrank. Oh yeah, 4-F, I forgot. Was it mental or physical? I'd bet both.

That's all you got, Freddo?

I was in high school while Kerry was putting himself in for Purple Hearts and traveling up the Do Long river to assassinate Col. Kurtz during Christmas in Cambodia

 

[Camp]

Kerry was a subversive who built a fake resume as a "War Hero" just come out later to undermine public support for our troops, so of course he'd have a stellar career in the DemoCCCPrat Party

Tell us about your service CrusaderFrank. Oh yeah, 4-F, I forgot. Was it mental or physical? I'd bet both.

That's all you got, Freddo?

I was in high school while Kerry was putting himself in for Purple Hearts and traveling up the Do Long river to assassinate Col. Kurtz during Christmas in Cambodia

Seems like Freddo has got plenty. It's one thing for veterans to go negative on another vet, and I don't much like that, but hey, they were there and they earned the right. For a guy who is not a combat vet to challange a combat vet's courage or whether he earned his awards is just beyond despicable. Make no mistake, you have every right to go negative on Kerry for what he did when he returned from the war and his politics of today, but there is no way you have the right to judge that mans behavior under combat if you have never been under combat yourself.

 

[PrometheusBound]

I see the repubs/rwer's are pulling this same old tired subject out of their ass for yet another thread.

Their own heroes are Chickenhawk gutless traitors who had Daddy get them out of having to fight Communists. Kerry earned his Purple Hearts. They are awarded because they meant coming within an inch of getting killed or seriously wounded. But those who love flagwaving sissyboys like Bush know nothing about war. Their idea of service is going on hungover joyrides playing Snoopy and the Red Baron.

 

[Bloodrock44]

Tell us about your service CrusaderFrank. Oh yeah, 4-F, I forgot. Was it mental or physical? I'd bet both.

That's all you got, Freddo?

I was in high school while Kerry was putting himself in for Purple Hearts and traveling up the Do Long river to assassinate Col. Kurtz during Christmas in Cambodia

Seems like Freddo has got plenty. It's one thing for veterans to go negative on another vet, and I don't much like that, but hey, they were there and they earned the right. For a guy who is not a combat vet to challange a combat vet's courage or whether he earned his awards is just beyond despicable. Make no mistake, you have every right to go negative on Kerry for what he did when he returned from the war and his politics of today, but there is no way you have the right to judge that mans behavior under combat if you have never been under combat yourself.

Then I have the right to judge. You don't get awarded 3 purple hearts in just 120 days and not spend 1 day in the hospital. I would have been ashamed to accept an award for illegitimate wounds.

 

[Bloodrock44]

I see the repubs/rwer's are pulling this same old tired subject out of their ass for yet another thread.

Their own heroes are Chickenhawk gutless traitors who had Daddy get them out of having to fight Communists. Kerry earned his Purple Hearts. They are awarded because they meant coming within an inch of getting killed or seriously wounded. But those who love flagwaving sissyboys like Bush know nothing about war. Their idea of service is going on hungover joyrides playing Snoopy and the Red Baron.

Kerry was awarded 3 purple hearts in just 120 days and by his own accounts didn't spend 1 day in the hospital, Comrade. You know not what you speak of.

 

[daveman]

I'm not saying you're wrong, but do you have a link to your sources that show that John Kerry met with the NVA leaders?

In the thread I linked. Reading is fun!

Sorry, I read this post before I had watched his testimony. He did meet with NVA leaders but not on some personal, secretive level. He met with both sides in peace talks and, I would assume (since he had no position of authority) had no influence on either side.

Not so much, actually.

Archived-Articles: Did Navy Lt. Kerry violate The UCMJ?

John Kerry, in sworn testimony before the Senate in April 1971, said he met with the North Vietnamese and Vietcong delegations in Paris in May 1970. He said they discussed their peace proposals —— especially the eight points of Madam Binh. Kerry strongly recommended that the Senate accept those proposals.

I have been to Paris. I have talked with both delegations at the peace talks, that is to say the Democratic Republic of Vietnam and the Provisional Revolutionary Government and of all eight of Madam Binh's points...

...I realize that even my visits in Paris, precedents had been set by Senator McCarthy and others, in a sense are on the borderline of private individuals negotiating, et cetera.​

In the ensuing months, Kerry became even more strident in his insistence that the US accept Madam Binh's (and the NVM and VC's) peace proposals.

Meanwhile, other representatives of Kerry's group, the Vietnam Veterans Against The War (VVAW ), met with the NVM and VC delegations in Paris, in March 1971. They were even photographed sitting at a table with them, as in a photo displayed in Winter Soldiers, by Richard Stacewicz, page 284.

Subsequently, VVAW representatives met with the North Vietnamese and Vietcong delegations on numerous occasions, both in Paris and even in Hanoi.

The VVAW even signed a treaty with the North Vietnamese which included all of Madam Binh's points, as noted by the historian of the anti—war movement, Gerald Nicosia, his book Home To War:

These people signed their own symbolic "people's peace treaty" with the Vietnamese. As Jan Barry recalls, the gesture was intended as a means of embracing the people they had harmed, of asking forgiveness for those they had killed.​

When you tell the Senate to accept your nation's enemy's terms of surrender, that's not the act of a patriot.

It's the act of a traitor.

 

[Camp]

That's all you got, Freddo?

I was in high school while Kerry was putting himself in for Purple Hearts and traveling up the Do Long river to assassinate Col. Kurtz during Christmas in Cambodia

Seems like Freddo has got plenty. It's one thing for veterans to go negative on another vet, and I don't much like that, but hey, they were there and they earned the right. For a guy who is not a combat vet to challange a combat vet's courage or whether he earned his awards is just beyond despicable. Make no mistake, you have every right to go negative on Kerry for what he did when he returned from the war and his politics of today, but there is no way you have the right to judge that mans behavior under combat if you have never been under combat yourself.

Then I have the right to judge. You don't get awarded 3 purple hearts in just 120 days and not spend 1 day in the hospital. I would have been ashamed to accept an award for illegitimate wounds.

You obviously don't know the criteria for being awarded the Purple Heart. 1rst, lots of guys have been awarded 3 of them in LESS than 120 days. You do not have to spend a day in the hospital. You can be treated and sent right back into combat, as thousands of Purple Heart recepients have in every war this country has ever fought. Just because you get a wound does't mean you leave the battle field or get a bunch of time off. If it doesn't disable you, you go right back into the fight or right out the next day. As long as a medical report is made that confirms a wound sustained in enemy action, you get the award. Please explain illegetimate wounds. How does a wounds gotten in combat become illigitimate? Are you alleging that you have information to confirm that his wounds were self inflicted or he recieved them in a non-combat situation?

 

[daveman]

I see the repubs/rwer's are pulling this same old tired subject out of their ass for yet another thread.

Their own heroes are Chickenhawk gutless traitors who had Daddy get them out of having to fight Communists. Kerry earned his Purple Hearts. They are awarded because they meant coming within an inch of getting killed or seriously wounded. But those who love flagwaving sissyboys like Bush know nothing about war. Their idea of service is going on hungover joyrides playing Snoopy and the Red Baron.

Four whole rep points? What a terrible burden. Let me lighten your load, my friend.

 

[9thIDdoc]

I was an Army medic in Vietnam with a combat unit and involved in the PH process.
I agree with Bloodrock.
It is possible-but highly unlikely- to get 3 PH's in that time period legally. I don't think that it is possible to do so honorably nor is it honorable to actively seek medals with such trivial excuses for "wounds". IMO Kerry demeaned the medals and those who actually deserved earned them, sometimes at the cost of their own lives and there is no greater sin in my mind. Kerry was not in-country long enough to recover from one wound worthy of being called such.

 

[Bloodrock44]

Seems like Freddo has got plenty. It's one thing for veterans to go negative on another vet, and I don't much like that, but hey, they were there and they earned the right. For a guy who is not a combat vet to challange a combat vet's courage or whether he earned his awards is just beyond despicable. Make no mistake, you have every right to go negative on Kerry for what he did when he returned from the war and his politics of today, but there is no way you have the right to judge that mans behavior under combat if you have never been under combat yourself.

Then I have the right to judge. You don't get awarded 3 purple hearts in just 120 days and not spend 1 day in the hospital. I would have been ashamed to accept an award for illegitimate wounds.

You obviously don't know the criteria for being awarded the Purple Heart. 1rst, lots of guys have been awarded 3 of them in LESS than 120 days. You do not have to spend a day in the hospital. You can be treated and sent right back into combat, as thousands of Purple Heart recepients have in every war this country has ever fought. Just because you get a wound does't mean you leave the battle field or get a bunch of time off. If it doesn't disable you, you go right back into the fight or right out the next day. As long as a medical report is made that confirms a wound sustained in enemy action, you get the award. Please explain illegetimate wounds. How does a wounds gotten in combat become illigitimate? Are you alleging that you have information to confirm that his wounds were self inflicted or he recieved them in a non-combat situation?

I think 9thIDDoc answered this quite succinctly. Your whole post is BS except for one statement. Just because you get a wound doesn't mean you leave the battlefield, but the policy was if you got 3 purple hearts you were sent home. Kerry got 3 scratches, didn't spend a day in the hospital; and hightailed it home, deserting his men. I'm not alleging anything other than he is a coward. Now kindly provide a link of lots of guys who were awarded 3 purple hearts in less than 120 days.

 

[Surfer]

...i find it hard to believe that liberals are responsible for all the evils of this world. That's all I'm saying.

Not "all". 99%

 

[Camp]

I was an Army medic in Vietnam with a combat unit and involved in the PH process.
I agree with Bloodrock.
It is possible-but highly unlikely- to get 3 PH's in that time period legally. I don't think that it is possible to do so honorably nor is it honorable to actively seek medals with such trivial excuses for "wounds". IMO Kerry demeaned the medals and those who actually deserved earned them, sometimes at the cost of their own lives and there is no greater sin in my mind. Kerry was not in-country long enough to recover from one wound worthy of being called such.

Doc, if you were with the 9th I suspect you served in the same general area of op's as Kerry and may have even had experience with Swift Boats, although I thought you guys operated your own little Navy down there. As a Doc, you know that the main factor for getting the PH was the medical report and how the company clerk handled it. Some times, some units brushed off minor wounds and so medical reports weren't turned in. Other times company clerks could just not be bothered with putting in the paperwork in for minor wounds. Sometimes guys gave instructions to medical and company clerks that they didn't want to be written up because they didn't want to sound like a dick when they explained how they got the PH. So, it is certainly plausible that Kerry had a great company clerk and a medical unit that processed every wound they treated, no matter how minor, and the clerk turned in every page of paperwork with every i dotted and every t crossed. But that doesn't mean the man was not in a combat situation and under enemy fire and that he didn't recieve a wound, even a minor one. I happen to think Kerry is a POS for what he did when he returned and how he failed veterans as a U.S. Senator. But that has nothing to do with his in country service. If the military decides to give a man an award, thats that. Just hate to see people question a mans service. Don't think it should be done. Specificly shouldn't be done by folks that weren't there. Folks that never saw combat. How the hell do they know how they would react? You know, they don't know. No man knows until he is put to the test. These guys that talk crap are just talking crap.