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"All that being said, I for one do not think Kerry was attempting to make a blanket statement that all soldiers were war criminals, no matter how his testimony was received. I also think very few people would consider the average Vietnam War veteran some crazed rapist psycho."
He didn't "attempt" anything. He did in fact make blanket statements that were in fact pre-planed, deliberate and malicious slander intended to discredit and vilify the average soldier in Vietnam. And, no, he didn't just "misspeak" in his testimony (under oath). He had been spouting the same bullshit long before and after his testimony. The wintersoldier "investigation" was a deliberate fraud that he participated in. He preached his slander as gospel to uncounted thousands of drugged out hippies who believed every word and responded by cursing us in the streets, spitting, and throwing dog shit at us along with occasional violence.
War crimes? Why have I never heard Kerry speak of this one?
Massacre at Hue - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
As I remember Kerry didn't say he saw or participated in war crimes but had been told by other veterans of the crimes. So was My Lai the only crime in Viet Nam or were there others? My Lai didn't seem to be on the army's hit parade and it took them some time to investigate, in fact the army seemed somewhat reluctant to check out My Lai. So do some want to believe Vietnam was like John Wayne portrayed it in his Viet Nam hero movie?
If people are upset about the way the navy awards decorations the place to complain is to the navy. The navy, however, when this ruckus started said it reviewed the records and all was shippy-shape. Kerry, and others, veterans or not, had a right to protest the war. Is Vietnam today considered a war America needed to fight and needed to win? Did My Lai happen?
In the greatest Country in the world the Military still works for the people. We have the right and some would say the duty to review awards that the Navy sanctioned weather or not the Navy wants to address the claims. It's an insult to real Veterans who were wounded in combat to read about Kerry's self recommended Purple Hearts when the statutes clearly indicate that intentional or unintentional self inflicted wounds do not qualify. One of Kerry's self recommended Purple Hearts concerned an incident where he threw a grenade into a cache of V.C. rice and a grain of rice or a piece of shrapnel bit him in the ass. The Military's policy was three Hearts and you got a ticket home and it's clear that the chicken shit Navy Lt. was determined to get his ass out of combat and the best way was to get three Hearts. Kerry's tour lasted three months.
The insult is that by alleging Kerry was able to obtain these awards without earning them, is the insult you hoist on every man who was awarded the same honor. You and your kind don't care about how your bullcrap effects the status of other PH awarded vet's. You question the honor of vet's as you try to rewrite the criteria for being awarded a PH with the notion that you have the right to do so. You place the stigma on those vet's that perhaps they didn't earn their PH. You ignore the fact that Kerry was also awarded the Silver Star, and so you challange every man that has earned that honor. What you are saying is that just because a vet was awarded a Medal does not mean he actually earned it. You insult all vet's that have earned awards from all wars. So, you tell us, where does that put you on the scale of honor and decency?
Los Altos drive-in theater.Where'd you serve, hero
"All that being said, I for one do not think Kerry was attempting to make a blanket statement that all soldiers were war criminals, no matter how his testimony was received. I also think very few people would consider the average Vietnam War veteran some crazed rapist psycho."
He didn't "attempt" anything. He did in fact make blanket statements that were in fact pre-planed, deliberate and malicious slander intended to discredit and vilify the average soldier in Vietnam. And, no, he didn't just "misspeak" in his testimony (under oath). He had been spouting the same bullshit long before and after his testimony. The wintersoldier "investigation" was a deliberate fraud that he participated in. He preached his slander as gospel to uncounted thousands of drugged out hippies who believed every word and responded by cursing us in the streets, spitting, and throwing dog shit at us along with occasional violence.
War crimes? Why have I never heard Kerry speak of this one?
Massacre at Hue - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Is that the best you can do, repeating my insults? Can't you come up with any insults on your own?You talk like a 10 year old."Bush!! BOOOOOSH!!!"
Oh, shut up, kid.
Why would I want to insult you?Is that the best you can do, repeating my insults? Can't you come up with any insults on your own?
Well, nobody ever said progressives were bright.
Why would I want to insult you?Is that the best you can do, repeating my insults? Can't you come up with any insults on your own?
Well, nobody ever said progressives were bright.
I'm Father fuckin' Theresa!
All you're doing is spewing shit. Whether it's true or not, is not of interest to you. All you care about, is getting something out of your mouth. How do I know this? It's simple. You make claims, you can't explain. Which means you have no clue as to what you're talking about or what you're saying.You're a spoiled child who thinks he's entitled to instant agreement with and affirmation of every dumbass bit of drivel that comes out of his vacuous head.
You're destined to go through life bitter and disappointed, boy.
But then, that's all progressives ever are.
I fought in Vietnam. I came out with my pride intact. I wasn't a crippled burnout with all the fight taken out of him. Those are the castrated hollow men who say, "Bush didn't protest. He didn't call us names. So having his Daddy get him out of fighting is all right with me."
You're also a lying sack of shit.
Now that's funny!Bush was as much of a fighter pilot as Dukakis was a tank commander.
Here's proof Bush served in the National Guard...
I fought in Vietnam. I came out with my pride intact. I wasn't a crippled burnout with all the fight taken out of him. Those are the castrated hollow men who say, "Bush didn't protest. He didn't call us names. So having his Daddy get him out of fighting is all right with me."
You're also a lying sack of shit.
You're lying about which side you are on. It's obvious that you are a Left winger coming on here to make Right wingers look stupid. Although I am an Independent, I have to congratulate your Left Wing guru for his effective mentoring of you on how to discredit the whole Right Wing. With your drooling posts, the whole world will think that Bushwhackoffs are inbred congenital idiots.
Excellent strategy. When compared to a small child throwing a temper tantrum, throw an even BIGGER tantrum.All you're doing is spewing shit. Whether it's true or not, is not of interest to you. All you care about, is getting something out of your mouth. How do I know this? It's simple. You make claims, you can't explain. Which means you have no clue as to what you're talking about or what you're saying.You're a spoiled child who thinks he's entitled to instant agreement with and affirmation of every dumbass bit of drivel that comes out of his vacuous head.
You're destined to go through life bitter and disappointed, boy.
But then, that's all progressives ever are.
So prove me wrong! Give me 3 reasons why you think I'm a "spoiled child"? 3 examples of what I have said, that would lead you to believe I feel "entitled to the agreement of others"? Or how you were able to surmise my "destiny"?
You can't! You're unable to explain why you said what you said. You don't even know what you said. Maybe I was giving you too much credit when I said you talked like a 10 year old. You're more like a 5 year old.
I fought in Vietnam. I came out with my pride intact. I wasn't a crippled burnout with all the fight taken out of him. Those are the castrated hollow men who say, "Bush didn't protest. He didn't call us names. So having his Daddy get him out of fighting is all right with me."
You're also a lying sack of shit.
You're lying about which side you are on. It's obvious that you are a Left winger coming on here to make Right wingers look stupid. Although I am an Independent, I have to congratulate your Left Wing guru for his effective mentoring of you on how to discredit the whole Right Wing. With your drooling posts, the whole world will think that Bushwhackoffs are inbred congenital idiots.
Now that's funny!Bush was as much of a fighter pilot as Dukakis was a tank commander.
Here's proof Bush served in the National Guard...
"All that being said, I for one do not think Kerry was attempting to make a blanket statement that all soldiers were war criminals, no matter how his testimony was received. I also think very few people would consider the average Vietnam War veteran some crazed rapist psycho."
He didn't "attempt" anything. He did in fact make blanket statements that were in fact pre-planed, deliberate and malicious slander intended to discredit and vilify the average soldier in Vietnam. And, no, he didn't just "misspeak" in his testimony (under oath). He had been spouting the same bullshit long before and after his testimony. The wintersoldier "investigation" was a deliberate fraud that he participated in. He preached his slander as gospel to uncounted thousands of drugged out hippies who believed every word and responded by cursing us in the streets, spitting, and throwing dog shit at us along with occasional violence.
War crimes? Why have I never heard Kerry speak of this one?
Massacre at Hue - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Doc, I once again am not trying to defend Kerry. I don't care about the man. I just think some of his testimony has been misinterpreted or exaggerated, and that if you talked to the man today, he would not just piss all over Vietnam veterans like they're trash. I'm also very aware that there were many Americans who treated veterans very poorly, and I don't support that. I have watched/read pretty much all of Kerry's two-hour congressional testimony, and I saw very little evidence that he considered every single soldier a criminal. As I mentioned before, there were many things he brought up in his testimony which showed his support of veterans.
Also, once again, I am well aware that there were crimes committed by the VC and NVA, as all wars have crimes committed by both sides. And yes, those should be mentioned as well. However, those do not justify things that we may have done. I'm not saying we were WORSE or that we were BETTER, but there's nothing wrong with admitting that there were mistakes made. I'd be the last one to say that all Vietnam veterans are criminals. That's ridiculous.
Q. What do you call a lousy, anti-American, lying scumbag?
President Ronald Reagan.
Great American Traitor!
Since you support the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, I don't want to hear shit from you about the killing of innocent VC. It would be the equivalent of listening to Charles Manson bitch about people who are pro-choice.It don't freaking matter that President Bush was a National Guard pilot anymore than it matters that Bill Clinton was a hair away from being indicted for dodging the draft or Al Gore cried to the chaplain about the danger of the typewriter corps. All that matters is whether or not Kerry exaggerated his role in the killing of an alleged unarmed V.C. or whether he was aware that self inflicted wounds do not qualify for a Purple Heart.
"All that being said, I for one do not think Kerry was attempting to make a blanket statement that all soldiers were war criminals, no matter how his testimony was received. I also think very few people would consider the average Vietnam War veteran some crazed rapist psycho."
He didn't "attempt" anything. He did in fact make blanket statements that were in fact pre-planed, deliberate and malicious slander intended to discredit and vilify the average soldier in Vietnam. And, no, he didn't just "misspeak" in his testimony (under oath). He had been spouting the same bullshit long before and after his testimony. The wintersoldier "investigation" was a deliberate fraud that he participated in. He preached his slander as gospel to uncounted thousands of drugged out hippies who believed every word and responded by cursing us in the streets, spitting, and throwing dog shit at us along with occasional violence.
War crimes? Why have I never heard Kerry speak of this one?
Massacre at Hue - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Doc, I once again am not trying to defend Kerry. I don't care about the man. I just think some of his testimony has been misinterpreted or exaggerated, and that if you talked to the man today, he would not just piss all over Vietnam veterans like they're trash. I'm also very aware that there were many Americans who treated veterans very poorly, and I don't support that. I have watched/read pretty much all of Kerry's two-hour congressional testimony, and I saw very little evidence that he considered every single soldier a criminal. As I mentioned before, there were many things he brought up in his testimony which showed his support of veterans.
Also, once again, I am well aware that there were crimes committed by the VC and NVA, as all wars have crimes committed by both sides. And yes, those should be mentioned as well. However, those do not justify things that we may have done. I'm not saying we were WORSE or that we were BETTER, but there's nothing wrong with admitting that there were mistakes made. I'd be the last one to say that all Vietnam veterans are criminals. That's ridiculous.
We still arguing over this? OK, let's all take a deep breath, and think about why we are doing that. There are a few of us here, who actually fought in Vietnam, and a few more who were actually around back here in the states at the time, and old enough to understand some of what was going on there. There are a lot more here who likely were not even born until after our war was just a memory. Nothing is going to change the opinions of those of us who went to Vietnam back then, or those who stayed home. We lived it, and we have our emotions connected to it; some of those emotions are still pretty strong, and maybe always will be. This is primarily for the rest of you, still making partisan political hay of one kind or another over us, our war, and the ones who protested it.
Those of us who fought in Vietnam are all old now, most of us past sixty. Before we're all gone, there's something I'd like to say to those of you who think you know all about it, from the history books, the old newsreels, and the movies. Whatever our ethnic background, whatever our social class, whether we volunteered or were drafted, we were mostly young, scared, and trying to survive a year fighting in a strange place halfway around the globe. Most of us managed to find a few moments of laughter and cheer in uncomfortable surroundings, but most of the time, we were uncomfortable, dirty, bug-bitten, and sleep-deprived. Boredom alternated with horror, and moments of sheer terror. Sometimes, it wasn't easy to even tell who the enemy was; the line between combatant and non-combatant was often blurred; some things were cut-and-dried, a lot more weren't. Heroes? You want the plain truth? I don't think ANY of us felt much like heroes; we were too damn busy trying to stay alive, or keep each other alive, to worry about it. I don't recall any of us having too many thoughts about the flag, glory, or God, country, motherhood and apple pie, in the middle of a firefight. We won, on the battlefield; what we won otherwise, is something else we've argued about for forty years. All I'm really sure of is that 58,274 of our brothers and 9 of our sisters died for it, and the rest of us felt damn lucky to have survived it. Did they, and we, do all that, so someone today can run for political office on the medals he received, or someone else can call one politician a traitor, or another a "chickenhawk", depending on whether he did, or din't serve, and where? Sometimes, it makes me feel like a bunch of vultures are circling the carcass of our war, picking at the bones of the dead, and picking the scabs off the wounds of the living ; and I have to ask, is that what they died for, and what we lived for? I ask, because sometimes, it feels like that process stains the little bit of honor that's been lost in all the recriminations and counter-recriminations, and it makes me feel just a little dirty, and a little sick.
So excuse me when I say I wish we could just stop, and think about not doing this anymore, and maybe letting the dead rest in peace, and the wounded heal, if they can. I guess even that's too much to ask, and this won't change things, anymore than all the bickering over who is or isn't a "hero" will. So go ahead, if you have to; but dammit, sometimes, it hurts, just the same.
