Jesus saves?

[MichaelCollins]

Reported you ONCE again for trolling.

What is trolling?

Trying to save you from your obvious brainwash/mental breakdown?

If so..then yes I am trolling.


People who quote the bible...as a justification for their beliefs and actions are mentally ill... ALL OF THEM.

I am guessing that you are not a particularly well read or educated man.

I am guessing that you have not studied ALL world religions.

I am guessing that you accepted your weird cultish bible bashing religion pretty easily...and didnt question it.

You like things to be simple and not very challenging? A pretty lazy man?

 

[cjcord]

Cite for me some verses that say people that die go to heaven or anywhere but to the ground when they die.

2 Corinthians 5:8
Yes, we are fully confident, and we would rather be away from these earthly bodies, for then we will be at home with the Lord.

Philippians 1:22-23
But if I live, I can do more fruitful work for Christ. So I really don’t know which is better. I’m torn between two desires: I long to go and be with Christ, which would be far better for me.

John 11:25-26
Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies; and whoever lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?"

*********

Jesus stated that he is the ONLY one that has ever ascended into heaven from earth.

I respectfully call BS.

"By faith Enoch was taken up so that he should not see death; and he was not found, because God had taken him. Now before he was taken he was attested as having pleased God." (Hebrews 11:5 RSV)

"And as they still went on and talked, behold, a chariot of fire and horses of fire separated the two of them. And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven." (2 Kings 2:11 RSV)

@MichaelCollins-

The bible is not my dear..the word of a GOD... it is as i said the collective mumblings of numerous writers from long ago...whose original intentions, meanings and what they even wrote has long since been lost.

-- I totally agree with this, and have mentioned it several times...but those who wish to ignore logic and fact, will.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Passages that show that Hades, Shaol are not a firey filled place. That nothing occurs there.

Job 14: 13

Psalms 6: 5

Ecclesiastes 9: 10

Isaiah 38: 18,19

Acts 2: 27,31,32

Psalms 16: 10

Revelations 20: 13,14

 

[cjcord]

Passages that show that Hades, Shaol are not a firey filled place. That nothing occurs there.

Shaol, as I was taught, was never explained as a fiery place at all. So I don't understand what you're trying to prove.

Shaol is a place of desolation, a place to be without the Lord as punishment for sins. The fire and brimstone wasn't added until zealous preachers decided a dark cold Shaol didn't have nearly the right impact..

But yeah, you ignoring the obvious evidence of your fallacious ideas I've posted? how surprising!

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Shaol, as I was taught, was never explained as a fiery place at all. So I don't understand what you're trying to prove.

Shaol is a place of desolation, a place to be without the Lord as punishment for sins. The fire and brimstone wasn't added until zealous preachers decided a dark cold Shaol didn't have nearly the right impact..

But yeah, you ignoring the obvious evidence of your fallacious ideas I've posted? how surprising!

And yet passages state no one will be left there.

 

[cjcord]

Maybe in the NT, but personally I ascribe more literalism to the OT than the New...The new is much more metaphorical and written to motivated ends. In some places, that's called propaganda

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Maybe in the NT, but personally I ascribe more literalism to the OT than the New...The new is much more metaphorical and written to motivated ends. In some places, that's called propaganda

Sorry you do not get to eliminate the discussion about CHRISTIAN beliefs, you know, the religious movement that happened after Jesus was sent and died for us and what the NT is ALL about.

 

[cjcord]

That's funny. Jesus was Jew. I thought "christians" accepted that. More over, he was an Essene, a Gnostic. A mystic. But of course, maybe you DON"T know that as Constantine made sure it was well hidden at Nicea...>.> ya SURE you wanna get into this with me? I thrive on religious debate.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

That's funny. Jesus was Jew. I thought "christians" accepted that. More over, he was an Essene, a Gnostic. A mystic. But of course, maybe you DON"T know that as Constantine made sure it was well hidden at Nicea...>.> ya SURE you wanna get into this with me? I thrive on religious debate.

You can twist and turn all you want This is a discussion on CHRISTIAN beliefs and includes the NT. Cry all you want about it, doesn't change a thing. You want a discussion on Jewish beliefs, make a thread for it.

And every Christian knows Jesus was the Son of God and that he sought to correct mistakes made in the Jewish religion. He was born a Jew. Further all Christians know that the Jews are Gods chosen people. Kind of hard to miss since it is half the Bible.

 

[cjcord]

You are incorrect here. Not all Christians know Jesus was the son of God. What they KNOW is that the Bible states that someone said he is.

I can post here that I am the child of God, and it means just as much as what is written in the bible.

And this is not a discussion on Christian beliefs when you quote the Tenach. When you do this, you are directly discussing Jewish beliefs. If you would like that stopped, I suggest you stop doing it.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

You are incorrect here. Not all Christians know Jesus was the son of God. What they KNOW is that the Bible states that someone said he is.

I can post here that I am the child of God, and it means just as much as what is written in the bible.

And this is not a discussion on Christian beliefs when you quote the Tenach. When you do this, you are directly discussing Jewish beliefs. If you would like that stopped, I suggest you stop doing it.

I am past tired of you trying to play games. The Bible includes the old and new Testaments. You do not get to tell me or anyone else not to quote from the Bible and then try to ignore half of it.

 

[cjcord]

I'm not playing games at all. You asked questions and made statements that I am responding to. You do not seem to appreciate my answers, so you immediately tell me that I am not discussing the same thing as you.

But you claim to be discussing Christian beliefs. I am merely informing you that Christian beliefs are based on Jewish beliefs. Same topic see?

You referenced Jewish texts and claimed it was Christian. I informed you that was incorrect. Now you don't see Hasidim claiming the New Testament as "gospel" do you? Why is this? because there is a clear delineation between the testaments. You claiming this isn't the case, is wrong.

Christians may borrow from the Tenach and claim it as their own, but that does not mean that it is.

if you insist on referencing it, then you must reasonably expect that someone would point this out. if you do not realize this, it is hardly a discussion is it? rather it becomes a lecture on YOUR belief system instead. If that is the case, we will all sit in somber silence and learn from you, O teacher.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I'm not playing games at all. You asked questions and made statements that I am responding to. You do not seem to appreciate my answers, so you immediately tell me that I am not discussing the same thing as you.

But you claim to be discussing Christian beliefs. I am merely informing you that Christian beliefs are based on Jewish beliefs. Same topic see?

You referenced Jewish texts and claimed it was Christian. I informed you that was incorrect. Now you don't see Hasidim claiming the New Testament as "gospel" do you? Why is this? because there is a clear delineation between the testaments. You claiming this isn't the case, is wrong.

Christians may borrow from the Tenach and claim it as their own, but that does not mean that it is.

if you insist on referencing it, then you must reasonably expect that someone would point this out. if you do not realize this, it is hardly a discussion is it? rather it becomes a lecture on YOUR belief system instead. If that is the case, we will all sit in somber silence and learn from you, O teacher.

Pretending the OT is somehow NOT part of the Christian Bible is hilarious. Claiming further that a discussion ABOUT Christian Beliefs can not include the NT is even funnier.

Ohh by the way you may need me to teach you something.

A Christian believes that Jesus is the Son of God, if someone does NOT believe that they are by definition NOT a Christian.Further they believe that Jesus sacrificed himself to save us all. And yes every Christian does in fact know that Jesus was a Jew. That he tried to correct Jewish teachings and that he came with a message for all.

 

[xsited1]

What a funny comment! I don't understand, don't parents ask questions?
Or does becoming a parent answer a host of theological questions?

Regardless, what do you think Jesus is saving you from, if not God?

If you had children, you would know that we are not born good.

 

[MichaelCollins]

Pretending the OT is somehow NOT part of the Christian Bible is hilarious. Claiming further that a discussion ABOUT Christian Beliefs can not include the NT is even funnier.

Ohh by the way you may need me to teach you something.

A Christian believes that Jesus is the Son of God, if someone does NOT believe that they are by definition NOT a Christian.Further they believe that Jesus sacrificed himself to save us all. And yes every Christian does in fact know that Jesus was a Jew. That he tried to correct Jewish teachings and that he came with a message for all.

You need serious medical treatment..and soon.

 

[WhiteLion]

I am past tired of you trying to play games. The Bible includes the old and new Testaments. You do not get to tell me or anyone else not to quote from the Bible and then try to ignore half of it.

True,,, even JESUS said eccentially all or none...Just because Christ died on the cross didnt mean the Old Testament was null and void, no not for a minute, because the Old Testamanet was prophesy of the New Testament=JESUS THE CHRIST the WORD...
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
John 1:17 For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ.
Galatians 4:4 But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law,

And finally the clincher scripture
Matthew 5:17-18 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished"

 

[WhiteLion]

Seriously mate.. you really need to stop being so silly.

The bible is just a collection of diverse writings by numerous people..translated and rewritten numerous times.....

Why are you so silly to take what they say so literally?

You realise that back in the day... the writing style was much more symbolic, metaphoric and allegorical?? and yet you now 2000 plus years later want to take a literal meaning?

americans are totally nuts.

they want a simplified life...and take everything literally.

The bible is not my dear..the word of a GOD... it is as i said the collective mumblings of numerous writers from long ago...whose original intentions, meanings and what they even wrote has long since been lost.


Please try to live your life as best you can and dont rely on ancient writings... you seriously may as well pick up any book in the world and do the same.

American Christians take their Bible basis from the King James Version which was diligently translated and revised using the original hebrew tongues during the great reformation and was tried by the fires of William Tyndales execution a myrterer that was burned at the stake for heresy (against that stumbling block the "catholic church") wanting to print all of the truth and not half of it and to put it at public print for all to have...So many great men of GOD have been executed and killed for the WORD William Tyndale - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and many more to come before this life is thru...............never heard of anyone willing to die for Harry Potters books or excuted in defense of it lol

 

[Sunni Man]

And finally the clincher scripture
Matthew 5:17-18 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished"

This is the exact verse that made me leave Christianity.

Jesus here is speaking about the Torah and Levitical Law.

"Heaven and eath have NOT passed away".

So all of the Jewish Laws must still be in effect.

And any changes to the Law that Paul made in starting the new Christian religion are null and void.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Apparently, you know about as much about religion as you do about mental health.

 

[Sunni Man]

Apparently, you know about as much about religion as you do about mental health.

Thank You!!

I do take my passion for religion just as seriously as I do my profession.