Jesus Christ.

[Valerie]

That article makes a point similar to mine -

christians are not very christian in their behavior or their beliefs.

Christians are, as a group, a bunch of sanctimonious hypocrits who want to use the govt to control everyones' life while whining about how the govt is controlling their life.

And christians will use any lie in support of their own, non-christian, desires. They don't like paying taxes, so they claim that Jesus opposed taxes. Even lying about God is OK for a christian if it helps them get what they want

Speaking of using anything to support your assertion...


Considering that only 56.8% of the US population actually turned up to vote in the last presidential election, which was actually considered a high turn-out...How many of those 132,618,580 people, most of whom voted for president Obama, would you consider "a bunch of sanctimonious Christian hypocrites who want to use the govt to control everyone's life"...?

Despite however many voters may actually be Christian...You certainly could not assert their general behavior as a GROUP based on those numbers...?

As far as the christians who voted for Obama, I suspect that most of them are sactimonious Christian hypocrits who want to use the govt to control everyone's life. The urge to control is strong, and is not limited to one side of the political spectrum

I would not use "christians who voted for Obama" as if it were representative of "christians, as a group". Basically, you're comparing apples (christians who voted for Obama) and oranges (all christians)

That's just bad logic

Wrong. I'm asking how many of those people are ACTUALLY Christians who want to use the government to control people's lives...? EITHER side of the aisle..?

Then if you take THIS NUMBER vs how many Christians there actually are in America...you do not come up with asserting that MOST Christians do ANYthing.

 

[sangha]

Speaking of using anything to support your assertion...


Considering that only 56.8% of the US population actually turned up to vote in the last presidential election, which was actually considered a high turn-out...How many of those 132,618,580 people, most of whom voted for president Obama, would you consider "a bunch of sanctimonious Christian hypocrites who want to use the govt to control everyone's life"...?

Despite however many voters may actually be Christian...You certainly could not assert their general behavior as a GROUP based on those numbers...?

As far as the christians who voted for Obama, I suspect that most of them are sactimonious Christian hypocrits who want to use the govt to control everyone's life. The urge to control is strong, and is not limited to one side of the political spectrum

I would not use "christians who voted for Obama" as if it were representative of "christians, as a group". Basically, you're comparing apples (christians who voted for Obama) and oranges (all christians)

That's just bad logic

Wrong. I'm asking how many of those people are ACTUALLY Christians who want to use the government to control people's lives...? EITHER side of the aisle..?

Then if you take THIS NUMBER vs how many Christians there actually are in America...you do not come up with asserting that MOST Christians do ANYthing.

I see what you're saying now. However I think your position is based on the false assumption that if someone doesn't vote, that means they don't want the govt to control peoples' lives.

 

[Valerie]

As far as the christians who voted for Obama, I suspect that most of them are sactimonious Christian hypocrits who want to use the govt to control everyone's life. The urge to control is strong, and is not limited to one side of the political spectrum

I would not use "christians who voted for Obama" as if it were representative of "christians, as a group". Basically, you're comparing apples (christians who voted for Obama) and oranges (all christians)

That's just bad logic

Wrong. I'm asking how many of those people are ACTUALLY Christians who want to use the government to control people's lives...? EITHER side of the aisle..?

Then if you take THIS NUMBER vs how many Christians there actually are in America...you do not come up with asserting that MOST Christians do ANYthing.

I see what you're saying now. However I think your position is based on the false assumption that if someone doesn't vote, that means they don't want the govt to control peoples' lives.

How else could you assert the majority of Christians as a group want to control people's lives via government yet they don't even vote...?

 

[sangha]

Wrong. I'm asking how many of those people are ACTUALLY Christians who want to use the government to control people's lives...? EITHER side of the aisle..?

Then if you take THIS NUMBER vs how many Christians there actually are in America...you do not come up with asserting that MOST Christians do ANYthing.

I see what you're saying now. However I think your position is based on the false assumption that if someone doesn't vote, that means they don't want the govt to control peoples' lives.

How else could you assert the majority of Christians as a group want to control people's lives via government yet they don't even vote...?

Christians aren't very bright. If they were smart, they would realize that they might be able to gain their desires if they voted, but they're not smart. Instead, many of them reject politics as being too "worldly"

After all, christians believe (or at least, their supposed to believe) that they should "turn the other cheek", but that doesn't stop them from supporting pre-emptive wars and the torture of people. They're not smart enough to see their own hypocrisy, so why would they understand the importance of voting?

 

[Valerie]

I see what you're saying now. However I think your position is based on the false assumption that if someone doesn't vote, that means they don't want the govt to control peoples' lives.

How else could you assert the majority of Christians as a group want to control people's lives via government yet they don't even vote...?

Christians aren't very bright. If they were smart, they would realize that they might be able to gain their desires if they voted, but they're not smart. Instead, many of them reject politics as being too "worldly"

After all, christians believe (or at least, their supposed to believe) that they should "turn the other cheek", but that doesn't stop them from supporting pre-emptive wars and the torture of people. They're not smart enough to see their own hypocrisy, so why would they understand the importance of voting?

Excellent, so you concede the point I initially responded to was right on. Thus confirming you are full of shit and strayed way off the OP...?



Which is it? They aren't very bright yet they don't do enough to control...?

"Christians are, as a group, a bunch of sanctimonious hypocrits who want to use the govt to control everyones' life while whining about how the govt is controlling their life. "





Speaking of using anything to support your assertion...

Jesus Christ. US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum



Do you have a number for all those Christians who supposedly "supported" torture...?

 

[SmarterThanHick]

I don't value my possessions more than my relationship with Him.
If you knew just a small portion of my life you would see the time that I have spent without the comfort of most of the basics.

And yet if you sold your computer, you'd have more time to devote to your religion rather than talking online to strangers.

Nonetheless we have established that Jesus told someone to sell his possessions for a reason. A reason which you believe doesn't apply to you, most notably because it's not a commandment. This is silly reasoning. If an omnipotent being said "hey I'm not commanding you to do this but uh, I recommend you not take the tunnel to work today", you best well listen. But you don't. It doesn't apply.

Would Jesus have a computer? And a car? Would he need people to Like him on facebook? Or argue with them on a forum?

That article makes a point similar to mine - christians are not very christian in their behavior or their beliefs. Christians are, as a group, a bunch of sanctimonious hypocrits who want to use the govt to control everyones' life while whining about how the govt is controlling their life. And christians will use any lie in support of their own, non-christian, desires. They don't like paying taxes, so they claim that Jesus opposed taxes. Even lying about God is OK for a christian if it helps them get what they want

While I've generally agreed with your point regarding the picking and choosing of how to interpret religion so as to justify reasons to ignore certain aspects, I think it's pushing things to make these gross generalizations regarding an entire religion, especially when the nutjob groups that do that are small minorities. LOUD and annoying minorities that make themselves appear larger simply by being noticed, but minorities nonetheless.

 

[JohnA]

You show proof that not all Christians think the same, yet you point your finger at "most" other Christians saying, in biblical terms, "Thou Fool".

Don't be a hypocrite.

The reason most "buy into" Revelations is because Jesus said so. It's just that simple.

Being a Christian means you believe in what Christ represents, thus you believe that he was capable of accurate prophecy. He spoke to God on a regular basis and was privy to information the rest of us were not. It is hypocritical to say you're a Christian on one hand yet on the other claim that his words are meaningless.

If you don't believe in the Revelation of Jesus Christ then you're not really a Christian, are you?

i wish you would clarify your remarks by saying *its just my opinion/believe *
there is NO evidence what so ever that a person existed that was born of a virgin, had some mystical power that let him walk on the surface of the water and with a sweep of his hand heal the sick, died and came back and then vanished in the air
or he spoke to somebody called god .
no prove at all OF ANY OF THIS its all just written in a book .

YOU DONT BELIEVE ALL YOU READ DO YOU ?

If you do ill introduce you to the invisable yellow unicorn that i have wriiten about who lives at the bottom of my garden

There were witnesses that wrote it down. The four Gospels of Christ: Mathew, Mark, Luke, and John. It is called faith.

you just proved my point
some dudes wrote they had seen it so you believe it
my niegbour , brother, and gardener saw the yellow unicorn and wrote it down so you MUST believe that to

kids write about seeing santa ,the eater bunny and the tooth fairy every day .
i rest my case

 

[Care4all]

i wish you would clarify your remarks by saying *its just my opinion/believe *
there is NO evidence what so ever that a person existed that was born of a virgin, had some mystical power that let him walk on the surface of the water and with a sweep of his hand heal the sick, died and came back and then vanished in the air
or he spoke to somebody called god .
no prove at all OF ANY OF THIS its all just written in a book .

YOU DONT BELIEVE ALL YOU READ DO YOU ?

If you do ill introduce you to the invisable yellow unicorn that i have wriiten about who lives at the bottom of my garden

There were witnesses that wrote it down. The four Gospels of Christ: Mathew, Mark, Luke, and John. It is called faith.

you just proved my point
some dudes wrote they had seen it so you believe it
my niegbour , brother, and gardener saw the yellow unicorn and wrote it down so you MUST believe that to

kids write about seeing santa ,the eater bunny and the tooth fairy every day .
i rest my case

yet, there is no cult of people following the invisible yellow unicorn...poor writing skills....I suppose?

 

[SmarterThanHick]

and if there was such a cult, does that change things? There are cults that believe in all kinds of crazy things all the time. Some are more successful and last longer than others.

 

[froggy]

Josephus (c.37 – 100 ), also known as Yosef Ben Matityahu (Joseph son of Matthias) and Titus Flavius Josephus, was a renowned 1st-century Jewish historian. Josephus writes of a Jewish sect, whose leader was James the Just, the brother of Jesus.[5] Josephus' history includes sections on John the Baptist, the High Priest Annas, Pontius Pilate, and Jesus called the Messiah. In those parts of the Testimonium that are commonly regarded as authentic, Josephus describes Jesus as a teacher and miracle worker, attracting a large following who revered him after his death;

 

[mudwhistle]

I don't value my possessions more than my relationship with Him.
If you knew just a small portion of my life you would see the time that I have spent without the comfort of most of the basics.

And yet if you sold your computer, you'd have more time to devote to your religion rather than talking online to strangers.

Nonetheless we have established that Jesus told someone to sell his possessions for a reason. A reason which you believe doesn't apply to you, most notably because it's not a commandment. This is silly reasoning. If an omnipotent being said "hey I'm not commanding you to do this but uh, I recommend you not take the tunnel to work today", you best well listen. But you don't. It doesn't apply.

Would Jesus have a computer? And a car? Would he need people to Like him on facebook? Or argue with them on a forum?

That article makes a point similar to mine - christians are not very christian in their behavior or their beliefs. Christians are, as a group, a bunch of sanctimonious hypocrits who want to use the govt to control everyones' life while whining about how the govt is controlling their life. And christians will use any lie in support of their own, non-christian, desires. They don't like paying taxes, so they claim that Jesus opposed taxes. Even lying about God is OK for a christian if it helps them get what they want

While I've generally agreed with your point regarding the picking and choosing of how to interpret religion so as to justify reasons to ignore certain aspects, I think it's pushing things to make these gross generalizations regarding an entire religion, especially when the nutjob groups that do that are small minorities. LOUD and annoying minorities that make themselves appear larger simply by being noticed, but minorities nonetheless.

You're going to extremes here. You want a Christian to sell everything he has to be with Christ, but Jesus isn't here. So what other way can we be with him?

Jesus told the Deciples not to take him literally, yet you want us all to do that. Jesus spoke in parables. Only when a person has the Holy Spirit can they fully understand his meaning.

What better way to celebrate his life then to spread the joy of his rebirth with others. Giving away our PCs would prevent Christians from witnessing to the truth to others all over the world. This conversation wouldn't be possible.

Witnessing is not a sin. It's what he wanted. Reaching people in places that weren't possible before. He told us to spread the word, not the spread the wealth.

Think about it.

 

[mudwhistle]

If you think that you've all been saying the same thing, then this is just more proof that you don't understand what is being said.

And I guess you just proved yourself a hypocrit for bragging about how you haven't insulted anyone. Or maybe your delusions include the belief that "bipolar or simply retarded" is not insulting.

And please don't think I'm insulted by your childish one-liners. I merely enjoy pointing out your hypocritical lies

Then, maybe, I am the retarded one.
Could you explain how our responses differ?

He can't because he's being dishonest.

Truth is he's not really absorbing what anyone is saying here.

He's just throwing out silly random insults.

He's a bigot and can't talk to Christians in a decent, rational manner because he has no tolerance or respect for their beliefs.

 

[Marc39]

and if there was such a cult, does that change things? There are cults that believe in all kinds of crazy things all the time. Some are more successful and last longer than others.

the religion of peace is the only cult that condones mass murder.

Quran 9:5...
Then when the Sacred Months have passed, then kill the idolaters wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and prepare for them each and every ambush. But if they repent and perform As-Salât (Iqâmat-as-Salât), and give Zakât, then leave their way free. Verily, Allâh is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful

 

[SmarterThanHick]

You're going to extremes here. You want a Christian to sell everything he has to be with Christ, but Jesus isn't here.

Isn't he?

Jesus told the Deciples not to take him literally, yet you want us all to do that. Jesus spoke in parables.

This is a perfect example of picking and choosing. You even give yourself excuses to do so. So when Jesus says "I am divine" that's literal. But when he says you should do something you're not a fan of, that's only parable and doesn't need to be followed. That also begs the question why any deity would need to speak in parable. If trying to promote truth and knowledge to a people, cryptic messages are not the way to go. See science, as an exact opposite, for details.

Witnessing is not a sin. It's what he wanted. Reaching people in places that weren't possible before. He told us to spread the word, not the spread the wealth.

More picking and choosing.

 

[sangha]

That article makes a point similar to mine - christians are not very christian in their behavior or their beliefs. Christians are, as a group, a bunch of sanctimonious hypocrits who want to use the govt to control everyones' life while whining about how the govt is controlling their life. And christians will use any lie in support of their own, non-christian, desires. They don't like paying taxes, so they claim that Jesus opposed taxes. Even lying about God is OK for a christian if it helps them get what they want

While I've generally agreed with your point regarding the picking and choosing of how to interpret religion so as to justify reasons to ignore certain aspects, I think it's pushing things to make these gross generalizations regarding an entire religion, especially when the nutjob groups that do that are small minorities. LOUD and annoying minorities that make themselves appear larger simply by being noticed, but minorities nonetheless.[/QUOTE]

I think gross generalizations can be useful, so long as they are accurate and phrased in a way that makes it clear they are generalizations, and not rules. And while it may only be a minority who act in a loud and annoying manner, they find a great deal of support from christians in general

It is clear that for many years, the Vatican engaged in a systematic effort to cover up the abuse and molestation of children by the clergy. The Vaticans also sent these child abusers and rapist to places where they could abuse and rape more children. And Catholics continue to support their leadership, in spite of their heinous crimes.

How can a christian continue to be a member of an organization that is led by pedophiles, and those who protect pedophiles?

And these problems are not limited to the Catholic Church. The fact is that the majority of christians have supported policies that are 100% the opposite of christian doctrine. Christians support torture, pre-emptive war, pedarasty, and a host of other policies that are notable non-christian.

And I want to make something clear. I'm not condemning christianity or christians because they sometime fail to follow the Golden Rule, or because they don't always go to church. I'm talking serious offenses like torture, child molestation.

And I'm not just talking about a few christians. I'm talking about the large majority of christians, who do support policies that are anti-thetical to Christian thought. It's one thing to be fallible, fail, and recognize that one has sinned. But what I see is christians doing the opposite of what God said He wants them to do, and when someone points it out, they argue, in essence, that "God didn't really mean that"

And the worst thing is, not only is this non-christian behavior common, it is extremely rare to find a christian who doesn't deny The Word of God. Just look at the reaction I got by quoting Romans 13 commandment to submit to authorities. For all their blather about how some things are required and others voluntary, they have no problem rejecting Gods requirement that they submit to authority.

So I reject your claim that these are small minorities. My gross generality accurately describes the vast majority of Christians.

 

[sangha]

and if there was such a cult, does that change things? There are cults that believe in all kinds of crazy things all the time. Some are more successful and last longer than others.

Do you really think that Care4All truly believes that the Bible must be true because the christian cult is large and enduring? Or do you think he's so dumb, that he thinks the truth is subject to a majority vote?

 

[sangha]

If you think that you've all been saying the same thing, then this is just more proof that you don't understand what is being said.

And I guess you just proved yourself a hypocrit for bragging about how you haven't insulted anyone. Or maybe your delusions include the belief that "bipolar or simply retarded" is not insulting.

And please don't think I'm insulted by your childish one-liners. I merely enjoy pointing out your hypocritical lies

Then, maybe, I am the retarded one.
Could you explain how our responses differ?

He can't because he's being dishonest.

Truth is he's not really absorbing what anyone is saying here.

He's just throwing out silly random insults.

He's a bigot and can't talk to Christians in a decent, rational manner because he has no tolerance or respect for their beliefs.

The real truth is that I have already answered his question, and hortysir thanked me for the response.

 

[mudwhistle]

You're going to extremes here. You want a Christian to sell everything he has to be with Christ, but Jesus isn't here.

Isn't he?

Jesus told the Deciples not to take him literally, yet you want us all to do that. Jesus spoke in parables.

This is a perfect example of picking and choosing. You even give yourself excuses to do so. So when Jesus says "I am divine" that's literal. But when he says you should do something you're not a fan of, that's only parable and doesn't need to be followed. That also begs the question why any deity would need to speak in parable. If trying to promote truth and knowledge to a people, cryptic messages are not the way to go. See science, as an exact opposite, for details.

Witnessing is not a sin. It's what he wanted. Reaching people in places that weren't possible before. He told us to spread the word, not the spread the wealth.

More picking and choosing.

Nope. Jesus has not returned yet.

I'm not picking and choosing anything. When Jesus preached to anyone other then the Deciples he spoke in parables. When he was speaking to the 12 he spoke in plain simple terms.

Read into that what you want, but he was very clear.

First learn the Gospel, then you can start criticizing it.

 

[mudwhistle]

Then, maybe, I am the retarded one.
Could you explain how our responses differ?

He can't because he's being dishonest.

Truth is he's not really absorbing what anyone is saying here.

He's just throwing out silly random insults.

He's a bigot and can't talk to Christians in a decent, rational manner because he has no tolerance or respect for their beliefs.

The real truth is that I have already answered his question, and hortysir thanked me for the response.

Actually I think you're so blinded by hatred you're sort of delusional.

 

[hortysir]

In all fairness, I did thank Shanga for the reply.
The thanks was more for the mood of the response than the content.
When a response is (mostly) respectful I can respect the belief of the one saying it.

In another thread, I really like how MidnightMarauder expressed his beliefs, as an atheist.
He can *not* believe without hating those of us that *do*.
There is a difference between being an atheist and being anti-Christian