Jason Kidd Retire: Where does he rank All-Time?

Shaq has 70 pounds on Wilt. I'll say that Wilt was athletically gifted ahead of his time; but D Robinson would match-up fine with him too.

And Jordan would jump over Robertson. I mean, if you want to argue that Robertson's still better than Jordan than that's fine. And there are plenty of old timers that would have been all stars in today's NBA. But clearly, the overall athleticism has improved.
Wilt was the strongest player the NBA has ever seen. There has never been anyone that strong before or since.

And if Oscar is not that hot, how come no one's been able to even come close to what he did (average triple-doubles for an entire season)?

How come you won't answer the question about Black Jesus?

A better question is; if they were that great then how come Russell constantly handed them their asses?

BTW, Archibald had a 34 pt, 11 plus assist season in the 70's. I'm not making the case that he was better than Magic though. Clearly, the stat baselines changed through the NBA eras.
 
A better question is; if they were that great then how come Russell constantly handed them their asses?

BTW, Archibald had a 34 pt, 11 plus assist season in the 70's. I'm not making the case that he was better than Magic though. Clearly, the stat baselines changed through the NBA eras.
In '67, Wilt spanked Russell in 5 games.
 
1. Stockton
2. Magic
3. Parker
4. Rondo
5. Kidd
6. Robertson
7. Cousy
8. Archibald
9. KJ
10. Price

Honorable Mention: Payton, Billups, Paul, DJ, Mark Jackson, Bibby, White Chocolate, Rose

You can't be serious! Magic is the indisputable #1. The man was awesome and could play every position. He is #2-4 overall ever. Rondo and Parker are not even 3rd and 4th best now-a-days. The Big O was 6'5 and the only person in history to average a triple double. White Chocolate was flash but no fare! Where is Isiah Thomas?
 
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1. Stockton
2. Magic
3. Parker
4. Rondo
5. Kidd
6. Robertson
7. Cousy
8. Archibald
9. KJ
10. Price

Honorable Mention: Payton, Billups, Paul, DJ, Mark Jackson, Bibby, White Chocolate, Rose
You're putting Kidd ahead of the Big O?

That shows you don't know shit about basketball!

I know plenty about basketball. Big O would was really small o. He was a ball hog who got beat year after year. And he was really a SG playing PG.

Um, he was a 7x assist leader and average just under 10 assist per game for his CAREER! Sorry Charlie, but a guy who averages that many assists CANNOT be a ball hog!
 
Big fucking deal. Wilt averaged like 50 and 30 one season back then. There's no way in hell he'd do that in today's league. Same shit applies to Robertson.
Bullshit! They'd do the same thing today as they did back then.

Not a chance in hell. Shaq and Jordan came nowhere close to those numbers and they are certainly about the same if not more gifted.

MJ average more PPG than Wilt. Wilt is an exception to the rule. He was a giant amongst men. He was a strong 7 footer getting covered by 6'8-6'9 guys. However, the Big O was 6'5 and that is still big for PG! Some oldtimers would dominate today and I think Wilt and the Big O fit that category. I think Russel and Cousy don't!
 
Not a chance in hell. Shaq and Jordan came nowhere close to those numbers and they are certainly about the same if not more gifted.
Wilt would throw Shaq around like a rag doll and there is no way Jordan could stop O.

Come on, Wilt was good, but he won't be tossing Shaq around. They would be good competition. Wilt, Hakeem, Shaq and Kareem are the four best centers regardless of the era!

MJ would smoke the Big O!
 
Shaq has 70 pounds on Wilt. I'll say that Wilt was athletically gifted ahead of his time; but D Robinson would match-up fine with him too.

And Jordan would jump over Robertson. I mean, if you want to argue that Robertson's still better than Jordan than that's fine. And there are plenty of old timers that would have been all stars in today's NBA. But clearly, the overall athleticism has improved.
Wilt was the strongest player the NBA has ever seen. There has never been anyone that strong before or since.

And if Oscar is not that hot, how come no one's been able to even come close to what he did (average triple-doubles for an entire season)?

How come you won't answer the question about Black Jesus?

Earl the Pearl, he wasn't a PG, correct? What about him?
 
You're putting Kidd ahead of the Big O?

That shows you don't know shit about basketball!

I know plenty about basketball. Big O would was really small o. He was a ball hog who got beat year after year. And he was really a SG playing PG.

Um, he was a 7x assist leader and average just under 10 assist per game for his CAREER! Sorry Charlie, but a guy who averages that many assists CANNOT be a ball hog!

Robertson most certainly was a ball hog. He averaged more than 22 shots four times in his career. That's an insane amount of shots for a PG. Russell Westbrook is probably the most criticized PG today for overshooting and his FGAs for the last three years are 17.0, 19.2 and 18.7.

And the reason Robertson got those 10 assists per game is because even he often had to pass out of the double and triple teams and teams schemed defenses after 19 seconds of dribbling all over the court. That's not to say he wasn't a good passer. But Kobe's a good passer. That doesn't make him an unselfish player.
 
Bullshit! They'd do the same thing today as they did back then.

Not a chance in hell. Shaq and Jordan came nowhere close to those numbers and they are certainly about the same if not more gifted.

MJ average more PPG than Wilt. Wilt is an exception to the rule. He was a giant amongst men. He was a strong 7 footer getting covered by 6'8-6'9 guys. However, the Big O was 6'5 and that is still big for PG! Some oldtimers would dominate today and I think Wilt and the Big O fit that category. I think Russel and Cousy don't!

Have you seen Russell's career averages head to head against Wilt? You should probably rethink that analysis.

Cousy was great in his era and the C's would not have been the dynasty they were without him. That's why the fans gave him a standing O for like 20 minutes when he retired. He had great quickness and passing skills and would definitely be an all-star PG in the league today. He'd also be a better shooter with the improved ball/rims.
 
Not a chance in hell. Shaq and Jordan came nowhere close to those numbers and they are certainly about the same if not more gifted.
Wilt would throw Shaq around like a rag doll and there is no way Jordan could stop O.

Come on, Wilt was good, but he won't be tossing Shaq around. They would be good competition. Wilt, Hakeem, Shaq and Kareem are the four best centers regardless of the era!

MJ would smoke the Big O!

Nobody would toss around prime Shaq or old Shaq. He's easily the most massive player to ever play the game. But, I figured he was just talking for effect.

I don't think MJ would smoke Oscar. I don't think Oscar was not a great talent. I was arguing his value as a point guard. Oscar would have made a great shooting guard in today's game b/c he mastered the mid range game (and much earlier in his career than Jordan did). He'd have been able to come off screens and pop shots. Oscar is basically an immensely better version of Dwyane Wade.
 
Oscar Robertson's days at Cincinatti:

60-61 Cincy - 33-46
61-62 Cincy - 43-37
62-63 Cincy - 42-38
63-64 Cincy - 55-25
64-65 Cincy - 48-34
65-66 Cincy - 45-35
66-67 Cincy - 39-42
67-68 Cincy - 39-43
68-69 Cincy - 41-41
69-70 Cincy - 36-46

Why are the records mediocre? Because playing one versus five doesn't work. Countless players have proven that. Robertson spent an entire decade proving that.
 

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