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I refuse to vote in this poll because the options don't fit my opinion.
"Nutcase" comes closest, but looking at the YT channel and other information this kid (to me he's nothing but a kid anyway) left behind I almost feel sorry for him too. He was obviously troubled and for a long time, why was this ignored? Or was it not ignored, and the treatment given for whatever reason was simply not enough?
Some kids just get lost. They get lost in drugs, in gangs, in sex and violence and acts of what feels to them like "empowerment". Some of them get lost in the cyber pseudo-political fringes that feed and validate their delusions and sense of alienation.
This kid was seemingly obsessed with lucid dreaming, I doubt he felt much in control of his waking life or even his own thoughts if he wanted so badly to sleep all the time and control his dreams. It seems natural to that bizarre way of thinking that he would do something he might consider "powerful". Sounds a lot like others who have gone on rampages, doesn't it?
So yeah, while nutcase comes close I have to ask myself....do I really want to just write this kid and all the others like him out there off as "nutcase" and scream for blood? It's certainly a normal, human response and I'm not insensitive to the fact that in destroying his own life he's caused the loss and destruction of others. Yes, there must be a penalty for that. But should it end there, with a pejorative and a punishment and life goes on?
Maybe, just maybe, it can be a starting point for looking at resolving the underlying problems and doing something about all these kids and adults too who just....get lost. What, I don't know. But defusing a time bomb if you can is better than ignoring it.
Excellent thoughtful post. I have one point of possible disagreement. The evidence is not in that the shooter was "lost"; the possibility that he was lead to act in the way he did and against those he attacked, cannot be dismissed.
I say he's just a whacked out nutcase.
Not a single Liberal has voted in the poll. And if they do and pick nut case we already know that is a lie from their postings in numerous threads on this board.
There is only one correct answer to this poll and it is not there. He was influenced by all of the above. The least influential item noted would be the left as there is little hard core 'left' in America today. The few extremists on the left get no air time as media is conservative and corporate managed. I only include the left because presumably he read Marxist literature from a past time. If you believe he is simply a wacko, you would need to believe that ideas about life and action materialize out of thin air and not the zeitgeist of the times - especially that the last two years of ranting, raving, and whining and talk of guns and revolution has no impact at all. If you believe that I have some incredible real estate for you. Call me. One only has to read the repeated Wing Nut posts on this site to realize the influence of think tanks and conservative media.
"The difference between people and ideas is only superficial." Richard Rorty
For all the apologists, can you tell us why this nut didn't shoot a florist? "The main hypothesis concerning group-think is this: the more amiability and espirt de corps among the members of an in-group of policymakers the greater the danger that independent critical thinking will be replaced by groupthink, which is likely to result in irrational and the dehumanizing actions directed at out-groups." Irving L. Janis 'Sanctions for Evil'
Can anyone name a democrat who claims second amendment political solutions? Or putting politicians in the crosshairs of a gun? Extreme rhetoric sets the climate for the nuts: Clinton elected January 20, 1993 / Oklahoma City April 19, 1995 and Obama elected January 20, 2009 / Arizona shooting January 8, 2011. Is this a pattern, how about the holocaust shooter or the plane into the government building. This is an American killing Americans, it is internal terrorism and it does not materialize out of thin air.
"The rhetoric about hatred, about mistrust of government, about paranoia of how government operates and to try to inflame the public on a daily basis, 24 hours a day, seven days a week has impact on people, especially (those) who are unbalanced personalities to begin with." Sheriff Clarence Dupnik
Philip Zimbardo shows how people become monsters ... or heroes | Video on TED.com
"We first kill people with our minds, before we kill them with weapons. Whatever the conflict, the enemy is always the destroyer. We're on God's side; they're barbaric. We're good, they're evil. War gives us a feeling of moral clarity that we lack at other times." Sam Keen
PS I am reading George Orwell's 'Homage to Catalonia,' it is a fascinating look at ideology and power as it operates in the real world. Read it.
Did the police ever find the man they labeled a "person of interest" because he was on a video standing next to Loughner?
I refuse to vote in this poll because the options don't fit my opinion.
"Nutcase" comes closest, but looking at the YT channel and other information this kid (to me he's nothing but a kid anyway) left behind I almost feel sorry for him too. He was obviously troubled and for a long time, why was this ignored? Or was it not ignored, and the treatment given for whatever reason was simply not enough?
Some kids just get lost. They get lost in drugs, in gangs, in sex and violence and acts of what feels to them like "empowerment". Some of them get lost in the cyber pseudo-political fringes that feed and validate their delusions and sense of alienation.
This kid was seemingly obsessed with lucid dreaming, I doubt he felt much in control of his waking life or even his own thoughts if he wanted so badly to sleep all the time and control his dreams. It seems natural to that bizarre way of thinking that he would do something he might consider "powerful". Sounds a lot like others who have gone on rampages, doesn't it?
So yeah, while nutcase comes close I have to ask myself....do I really want to just write this kid and all the others like him out there off as "nutcase" and scream for blood? It's certainly a normal, human response and I'm not insensitive to the fact that in destroying his own life he's caused the loss and destruction of others. Yes, there must be a penalty for that. But should it end there, with a pejorative and a punishment and life goes on?
Maybe, just maybe, it can be a starting point for looking at resolving the underlying problems and doing something about all these kids and adults too who just....get lost. What, I don't know. But defusing a time bomb if you can is better than ignoring it.
Excellent thoughtful post. I have one point of possible disagreement. The evidence is not in that the shooter was "lost"; the possibility that he was lead to act in the way he did and against those he attacked, cannot be dismissed.
So he was lost or led, huh? Nice job, both of you, of absolving him of personal responsibility.
Maybe he was lost, but not until he made a conscious decision to head down the path he chose.
Bat shit crazy? Yup, but blaming his actions on any outside influence is just as bat shit crazy.
I refuse to vote in this poll because the options don't fit my opinion.
"Nutcase" comes closest, but looking at the YT channel and other information this kid (to me he's nothing but a kid anyway) left behind I almost feel sorry for him too. He was obviously troubled and for a long time, why was this ignored? Or was it not ignored, and the treatment given for whatever reason was simply not enough?
Some kids just get lost. They get lost in drugs, in gangs, in sex and violence and acts of what feels to them like "empowerment". Some of them get lost in the cyber pseudo-political fringes that feed and validate their delusions and sense of alienation.
This kid was seemingly obsessed with lucid dreaming, I doubt he felt much in control of his waking life or even his own thoughts if he wanted so badly to sleep all the time and control his dreams. It seems natural to that bizarre way of thinking that he would do something he might consider "powerful". Sounds a lot like others who have gone on rampages, doesn't it?
So yeah, while nutcase comes close I have to ask myself....do I really want to just write this kid and all the others like him out there off as "nutcase" and scream for blood? It's certainly a normal, human response and I'm not insensitive to the fact that in destroying his own life he's caused the loss and destruction of others. Yes, there must be a penalty for that. But should it end there, with a pejorative and a punishment and life goes on?
Maybe, just maybe, it can be a starting point for looking at resolving the underlying problems and doing something about all these kids and adults too who just....get lost. What, I don't know. But defusing a time bomb if you can is better than ignoring it.
Excellent thoughtful post. I have one point of possible disagreement. The evidence is not in that the shooter was "lost"; the possibility that he was lead to act in the way he did and against those he attacked, cannot be dismissed.
So he was lost or led, huh? Nice job, both of you, of absolving him of personal responsibility.
Maybe he was lost, but not until he made a conscious decision to head down the path he chose.
Bat shit crazy? Yup, but blaming his actions on any outside influence is just as bat shit crazy.
Did the police ever find the man they labeled a "person of interest" because he was on a video standing next to Loughner?
Yep. He was the taxi driver who took Loughner to the event.
Excellent thoughtful post. I have one point of possible disagreement. The evidence is not in that the shooter was "lost"; the possibility that he was lead to act in the way he did and against those he attacked, cannot be dismissed.
So he was lost or led, huh? Nice job, both of you, of absolving him of personal responsibility.
Maybe he was lost, but not until he made a conscious decision to head down the path he chose.
Bat shit crazy? Yup, but blaming his actions on any outside influence is just as bat shit crazy.
Do people with a mental illness choose to have it?
Nobody's absolving the guy of his actions here, if you read the entire post. Of course there must be a penalty. But I find it fascinating and rather revolting that so many are using this as just another excuse to attack each other instead of taking a good hard look at a common thread among all of these incidents and looking for a way to resolve something that's obviously a problem.
31st vote
I had to pick the last one b/c it was the closest to the actual facts.
He shot a dem = he's a RW nut
He read Mien Kompf = He's a LW nut
He also listed Peter Pan = That makes him a fucknut
He is not under the care of anything and has not been committed as insane = He's not a nut, he's just evil.
Until a doctor declares him insane, he's not, so lets not try to soften what he's done by thinking a sane person couldn't do such a thing.
Just because you think it's hackery doesn't make it so...
As it turns out, I was right....
Go vote, asshole....
It's hackery.
It's a partisan shot, from a partisan poster.
My opinion on the lad has been expressed. I don't need to vote in a poll to reinforce it.
In other words you want the opportunity to later lie about your position which a vote in this poll would preclude, Got ya. As for hackery pointing out few Liberals will vote in this poll, 21 people have voted, I count just ONE liberal. Go figure.
Just a whack job.
Nah, I'm a huge asshole to people like you.
no need to qualify it... You're a huge asshole....
....says the guy trying to score political points from a tradegy.
Excellent thoughtful post. I have one point of possible disagreement. The evidence is not in that the shooter was "lost"; the possibility that he was lead to act in the way he did and against those he attacked, cannot be dismissed.
So he was lost or led, huh? Nice job, both of you, of absolving him of personal responsibility.
Maybe he was lost, but not until he made a conscious decision to head down the path he chose.
Bat shit crazy? Yup, but blaming his actions on any outside influence is just as bat shit crazy.
Do people with a mental illness choose to have it?
Nobody's absolving the guy of his actions here, if you read the entire post. Of course there must be a penalty. But I find it fascinating and rather revolting that so many are using this as just another excuse to attack each other instead of taking a good hard look at a common thread among all of these incidents and looking for a way to resolve something that's obviously a problem.
... Is winning 12 - nada, maybe this board is saner than I thought. Least we forget the "also not" 's.(is that a thing?) In addition to this not being a Left Wing thing and not being a Right Wing thing it is also not:Just ye ole Nutcase?
A weed thing...
Hit & Run : Reason Magazine
A Rock and Roll thing...Yesterday Jesse Walker noted David Frum's plea that we not let all the talk about gun control following the Tucson massacre distract us from the importance of drug control in preventing such horrible crimes. In a post headlined "Did Pot Trigger Giffords Shooting?," Frum wrote: (see link)
A new forum for culture-war debate: Jared Loughners musical taste - Yahoo! News
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sO_QntXc-c4[/ame]
Arizona Tragedy Response - Part 2 | From the Band | Drowning Pool
(you can't make this stuff up)
... or God knows what they will come up with tomorrow.
Hat tip to HA-
It begins: Was Loughner driven to kill by the music he was listening to? Hot Air
So he was lost or led, huh? Nice job, both of you, of absolving him of personal responsibility.
Maybe he was lost, but not until he made a conscious decision to head down the path he chose.
Bat shit crazy? Yup, but blaming his actions on any outside influence is just as bat shit crazy.
Do people with a mental illness choose to have it?
Nobody's absolving the guy of his actions here, if you read the entire post. Of course there must be a penalty. But I find it fascinating and rather revolting that so many are using this as just another excuse to attack each other instead of taking a good hard look at a common thread among all of these incidents and looking for a way to resolve something that's obviously a problem.
I heard an interesting statistic last nite....haven't researched it's truth yet, so take with a grain of salt.
About 1% of our population can be classified as mentally ill....about 1% of THEM (or about 50,000) can be considered violent. Yet, 50% of all rampage killings are caused by that 1% of 1%.
