'Jane Roe' of Roe v. Wade Endorses Ron Paul for President

[Shogun]

I have not heard of a single woman who has stepped forward in the last 40 years to say, "I was raped and forced to deliver and keep my baby."


Of course not. RvW is precedence.


Care to make that same claim about pre-RvW?

 

[AllieBaba]

Not if she chose not to, and today, and I've no doubt, forever, that choice will be there to be made. Know any girls who have been "forced" to have the children of rapists? Because there aren't many out there. I've known one woman who was raped and gave the baby up for adoption, and one who kept the baby and raised it. Neither seems to have suffered undue hardship caused by the fact that they chose to keep a baby conceived during a rape. In fact, both feel pretty good about bringing something good out of what was originally a mess.

I've talked to plenty of women who have had abortions and regretted it, though.

And no, I don't think abortion should ever be "allowed" as a choice. I won't ever vote for it. But so long as it legally is, it's the choice that every pregnant woman gets to make. Whether she believes in abortion or not.

 

[bennylava]

How many women have you talked to who had children and regretted it? How many women have you talked to who gave children up for adoption and regretted it? How many people have said "I wish I was never born!"
Whether or not some people later regret their actions is not a logical reason to make illegal. We all have free will, that is the whole point. We don't need to pat women on the head and say "Oh honey I know you're not smart enough to make your own decisions, I KNOW you'll regret this later." Please.

I'm sure that there are problems and deaths that happen from surgical abortions. There are also lots of problems with pregnancies and delivery and women who die from them. Again, that is not reason enough to make pregnancy and delivery illegal, nor should it be to make abortion illegal.

Also the concept of abortion is as old as humankind itself. Let's not pretend that either modern science or Roe V. Wade invented the concept. People who practice herbal medicine have always had access to herbs that cause the uterus to expel its contents. Whether they are "morning after" concoctions (which some people would consider an abortion, some would not) or true abortificents which bring on menstruation as soon as it is missed, they are universal across time and the world.

Also, why are you escorting women to abortion clinics? And why do they 600 from the government? I doubt anyone would go through that procedure if they knew they weren't pregnant. That just makes no sense.

 

[AllieBaba]

The concept of murder is as old as mankind itself. That doesn't mean we should make it legal, and use taxes to fund it, and more taxes to advertise it and schools to make it easy for kids to immerse themselves in it.

 

[Shogun]

Yea, lets all pretend that telling kids about the bible will make them stop wanting to fuck each other instead.



It's sad that you think that criminalizing abortions will make delivering gang rape babies the MORAL choice.

 

[bennylava]

Yes, popularity doesn't make something right. I wasn't saying that. I was just pointing out that abortion is not an invention of feminism or modern society as a lot of prolifers would have us believe.

Also I don't think there are any prochoice people who would advocate immersing children in abortion.

 

[jillian]

Yea, lets all pretend that telling kids about the bible will make them stop wanting to fuck each other instead.



It's sad that you think that criminalizing abortions will make delivering gang rape babies the MORAL choice.

well, doncha know, those dumb chicks won't go gettin' themselves raped if abortions are illegal.

 

[AllieBaba]

Children are immersed in abortion culture. State funded birth control centers are obligated to provide clients with materials about abortion. Schools are allowed to provide that information.

I'll overlook the rest of your rabid mouth-foaming rhetoric, Shogun. You're obviously overtaxed.

 

[AllieBaba]

well, doncha know, those dumb chicks won't go gettin' themselves raped if abortions are illegal.

Shogun and you are the ones who are labeling them, not me.

I suppose I should take the track of you "reasonable" pro-abortionists....that only a dumb chick would choose to deliver a baby that is the result of a rape, and therefore, the choice should be taken from them...

Anyone who's raped should be forced to have an abortion, no matter what they want!

Because after all...it's about CHOICE, isn't it? The choice that you want to make for them?

 

[Shogun]

Or, much more likely, you have hit your mental stamina max and are out of breath.


Kids are no more brought up in a "culture of abortion" than they are brought up in a "culture of hardcore BSDM gay sex" just because the option is available for ADULTS. Good grief, point a finger at someone else again.

SCHOOLS SHOULD provide every bit of birth control information that is possibly available. Good god knows how THAT does more to reduce abortions than gideon bibles and dogmatic guilt trips.

 

[Shogun]

Shogun and you are the ones who are labeling them, not me.
I suppose I should take the track of you "reasonable" pro-abortionists....that only a dumb chick would choose to deliver a baby that is the result of a rape, and therefore, the choice should be taken from them...
Anyone who's raped should be forced to have an abortion, no matter what they want!
Because after all...it's about CHOICE, isn't it? The choice that you want to make for them?

Hey, I'm just glad to see that you are finally over here on the side of PRO-CHOICE, Allie Baba!

 

[AllieBaba]

Saying it doesn't make it so, Shogun. No matter how many times you say it.

 

[bennylava]

She's not prochoice, she just thinks that it's only a baby if the sex was consensual.

 

[AllieBaba]

I believe I can't force women to pretend a legal choice doesn't exist if they are in a situation which might lead them to take advantage of it. I know that goes against what all the pro-abortionists like to spout about pro-lifers, but it's true of most of us.

 

[Bern80]

Where do you draw the line when it comes to allowing or outlawing abortion? I’m just curious. I would support outlawing abortion except to save the life and health of the mother – and perhaps in cases of rape and incest – but that would be about it.

there isn't a concrete place to draw the line....yet.

What I mean by that is we don't have the ability to say on x day of your pregnancy your embryo is a human being.

What do we know?

We know up to a certain point after conception all we're really dealing with is a sack of cells.

We also know that at a certain point before the actual birth that bunch of cells has become a human being.

While I may think it's irresponsible I support I woman's choice to choose to have an abortion up to that point. After that point (call it a cliche argument if you like) you're killing an innocent human which in every other instance we call murder. For that reason I think the best option is to draw two lines so to speak. One that says you can have an abortion up to this time and one that says after this time you can't.

I have no problem with abortion at any time if the mother's health is at stake.

The problem i see with life starting at conception is there is difference between killing a life and preventing the formation of a life which is what life at conception would be. Then you would have to make contraception illegal because you are preventing life from forming in that instance as well.

 

[AllieBaba]

Stopping life from forming in the first place is not the same as stopping it once it has formed, though.

 

[Shogun]

and denial won't make it NOT so.

Thanks for the CHOICE, allie!

 

[Paulie]

Funny joke. Let me tell you, though, that I've escorted a woman to the abortion clinic on more than one occasion.

On one occasion, the ultrasound showed...no embryo. No fetus. Nothing.

Think they called off the abortion? HELL NO! Things went ahead as planned, so they still earned their $600 from the state.

You curiously have a personal attachment to just about everything that gets discussed on this board. Either you "wrote a paper about it", or you "drove someone there" or you "studied that subject extensively".

You're the veritable expert here on EVERYTHING, baba. Personally, I think you're full of shit.

 

[Paulie]

Yes, let's punish women who live in the red states. That's fair. Make them drive to another state, makes sense, right?

States have a right to make whatever law they wish.

If you live in a state that is pushing for making it illegal, then do your part as a citizen and lobby your community against it.

I believe it should be a ballot referendum, so that the citizens of the state can decide their law on that issue.

That way, you can't complain about the law, because you could have been a part of the decision if you cared enough to.

That's how this country was suppoed to work, when it was conceptualized. Over time though, we decided we didn't care anymore. Especially when the TV was invented.

 

[Angel Heart]

She's also responsible for her rightful abortion.

She never had one. She's now saying she was never raped.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norma_McCorvey

The case took three years to reach the United States Supreme Court. In the meantime, McCorvey had given birth. At the time of the case, she claimed her pregnancy was the result of rape; she now claims that to have been untrue.