Jane Fonda

[Dogmaphobe]

Jane Fonda risked her career to end a senseless war

Her efforts, along with other protestors, put pressure on Washington to end a useless war. If allowed to continue unchallenged....the war probably would have gone on another ten years

That she did and it was a worthy cause, yet she crossed the line when she supported the North Vietnamese.

Even in groups such as the S.D.S.. there was a struggle between responsible liberals who wanted to keep the message focused on getting our boys home because they were dying unnecessarily and irresponsible leftist radicals who crossed the same line as Fonda. What Fonda did was to give the impression that all those against the war were sympathizing with the North Vietnamese, which wasn't the case.

 

[rightwinger]

Jane Fonda risked her career to end a senseless war

Her efforts, along with other protestors, put pressure on Washington to end a useless war. If allowed to continue unchallenged....the war probably would have gone on another ten years

That she did and it was a worthy cause, yet she crossed the line when she supported the North Vietnamese.

Even in groups such as the S.D.S.. there was a struggle between responsible liberals who wanted to keep the message focused on getting our boys home because they were dying unnecessarily and irresponsible leftist radicals who crossed the same line as Fonda. What Fonda did was to give the impression that all those against the war were sympathizing with the North Vietnamese, which wasn't the case.

Fonda's biggest fault was she could not separate the soldier from the war

 

[Circe]

Jane Fonda risked her career to end a senseless war

Her efforts, along with other protestors, put pressure on Washington to end a useless war. If allowed to continue unchallenged....the war probably would have gone on another ten years

That she did and it was a worthy cause, yet she crossed the line when she supported the North Vietnamese.

Even in groups such as the S.D.S.. there was a struggle between responsible liberals who wanted to keep the message focused on getting our boys home because they were dying unnecessarily and irresponsible leftist radicals who crossed the same line as Fonda. What Fonda did was to give the impression that all those against the war were sympathizing with the North Vietnamese, which wasn't the case.

Right. It was certainly not the case that the main body of protestors were communists. Mainly we wanted to stop our troops dying --- and stop our troops killing foreigners for no sensible reason at all, just murder. The leaders WERE communists (and I happened to meet most of them and even knew at least one pretty well: no names) and I am not being snarky: they said so and they were proud of it and shouted it over bullhorns. They did want a communist revolution, and again, said so, and the government was pretty afraid of just that. Later I realized it had been an incipient civil war or rebellion, but I don't think that time was nearly as bad as it is right now. The disunity and hatred going on now in this country is like the French Revolution or the 1850s here.

Do any of you who were there then agree with that?

 

[Marion Morrison]

I didn't have much to say, but I just ran across this and knew it belonged here:

 

[RWNJ]

I have more respect for Fonda than any military personnel.

I have more respect for runny dogshit than any democrat.

I wouldn't want to step in either.

 

[Uncensored2008]

[
Evidently wasn't remotely close to treason was it?

She wasn't prosecuted because she broke no laws

You already know it was flat out treason.

Nixon was a pussy. He let the little Goebbels of the leftist propaganda machine shit all over him. He feared the Hollywood Marxists

Nixon SHOULD have had Jane executed, Tim McVeigh style. Had he shown some balls against the Maoists, the Watergate farce would have never happened. He showed weakness, so the Maoists tore him to shreds.

Nixon failed to grasp that the "loyal opposition" was gone, the democrats were destroyed in 1968, with the Maoists taking the party. democrats are not the opposition, but the enemy.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Why were we fighting Vietnam people? Why were so many dying? Sometimes treason is the only right thing to do.

Remember how wrong you thought Muhammad Ali’s was?

I respected Ali.

But then, he was not a traitor - Fonda is.

 

[regent]

Why were we fighting Vietnam people? Why were so many dying? Sometimes treason is the only right thing to do.

Remember how wrong you thought Muhammad Ali’s was?

I respected Ali.

But then, he was not a traitor - Fonda is.

Why did the founders give message board participants the power to decide treason and who is guilty of same? Seems that should be a function of government.

 

[sealybobo]

Why were we fighting Vietnam people? Why were so many dying? Sometimes treason is the only right thing to do.

Remember how wrong you thought Muhammad Ali’s was?

I respected Ali.

But then, he was not a traitor - Fonda is.

Why did the founders give message board participants the power to decide treason and who is guilty of same? Seems that should be a function of government.

They don't trust government unless that government is run by Republicans and they lie us into a bullshit war and then they trust it even when it's proven to be untrustworthy.

Isn't that weird? For guys who don't trust the government they sure trusted Dick Chaney Bush and Haloburton and they trusted Nixon Johnson and the Military Industrial Complex. And they trust Trump and Jeff Sessions.

Weird.

 

[RWNJ]

Why were we fighting Vietnam people? Why were so many dying? Sometimes treason is the only right thing to do.

Remember how wrong you thought Muhammad Ali’s was?

I respected Ali.

But then, he was not a traitor - Fonda is.

Why did the founders give message board participants the power to decide treason and who is guilty of same? Seems that should be a function of government.

There are several 'Urban legend' accounts of Hanoi Jane's treason and treachery. The most popular is attributed to F-4E pilot, Jerry Driscoll. This alleged incident is proveably false, even by Driscoll himself. For the truth in Jane Fonda's crimes and disgusting behavior, read the book titled: Aid and Comfort, written by Henry and Erika Holzer.

However, the following account is true....
"I was a civilian economic development advisor in Vietnam, and was captured by the North Vietnamese communists in South Vietnam in 1968, and held for over 5 years. I spent 27 months in solitary confinement, one year in a cage in Cambodia, and one year in a "black box" in Hanoi. My North Vietnamese captors deliberately poisoned and murdered a female missionary, a nurse in a leprosarium in Ban me Thuot, South Vietnam, whom I buried in the jungle near the Cambodian border.

At one time, I was weighing approximately 90 lbs. (My normal weight is 170 lbs.) We were Jane Fonda's 'war criminals.'

When Jane Fonda was in Hanoi, I was asked by the camp communist political officer if I would be willing to meet with Jane Fonda. I said yes, for I would like to tell her about the real treatment we POWs received different from the treatment purported by the North Vietnamese, and parroted by Jane Fonda, as "humane and lenient." Because of this, I spent three days on a rocky floor on my knees with outstretched arms with a large amount of steel placed on my hands, and beaten with a bamboo cane till my arms dipped. I had the opportunity to meet with Jane Fonda for a couple of hours after I was released. I asked her if she would be willing to debate me on TV. She did not answer me."


To add insult to injury, when American POWs finally began to return home (some of them having been held captive for up to nine years) and describe the tortures they had endured at the hands of the North Vietnamese, Jane Fonda quickly told the country that they should "not hail the POWs as heroes, because they are hypocrites and liars." Fonda said the idea that the POWs she had met in Vietnam had been tortured was "laughable," claiming: "These were not men who had been tortured. These were not men who had been starved. These were not men who had been brainwashed." The POWs who said they had been tortured were "exaggerating, probably for their own self-interest," she asserted. She told audiences that "Never in the history of the United States have POWs come home looking like football players. These football players are no more heroes than Custer was. They're military careerists and professional killers" who are "trying to make themselves look self-righteous, but they are war criminals according to law."

Were Jane Fonda's actions treason, or were they the exercise of a private citizen's right to freedom of speech? At the time, the legal aspects of this question were moot: President Nixon was engaged in trying to wind down American involvement in Vietnam and had to face another election in a few months, so politically he had far more to lose than to gain by making a martyr out of a prominent anti-war activist. (No requirement in either the Constitution or federal law states that the U.S. must be engaged in a declared war -- or any war at all -- before charges of treason can be brought against an individual.)

On the one hand, Jane Fonda provided no tangible military assistance to the North Vietnamese: she divulged no military secrets, she gave them no money or material, and she did not interfere with the operations of the American forces. Her actions, offensive as they were to many, were primarily of propaganda value only. On the other hand, Iva Ikuko Toguri (also known as "Tokyo Rose") was convicted of treason for making propaganda broadcasts on behalf of the Japanese during World War II (although she claimed her betrayal was forced and was eventually pardoned many years later by President Gerald Ford), and Fonda's efforts could fall under the definition of "giving aid and comfort to the enemy." It is also undeniable that some American soldiers came to harm as a direct result of Fonda's actions, an outcome she should reasonably have anticipated.

In 1988, sixteen years after denouncing American soldiers as war criminals and tortured POWs as possessed of overactive imaginations, Fonda met with Vietnam veterans to apologize for her actions. It's interesting to note that this nationally-televised apology (during which she attempted to minimize her actions by characterizing them as "thoughtless and careless") came at a time when New England vets were successfully disrupting a film project she was working on. It's also interesting that not only was this apology delivered sixteen years after the fact, but it has not been offered again since. More than a few have read a huge dollop of self-interest into Fonda's 1988 apology. (Finally, in an interview in 2000, almost thirty years after the fact, Fonda admitted: "I will go to my grave regretting the photograph of me in an anti-aircraft carrier, which looks like I was trying to shoot at American planes. It hurt so many soldiers. It galvanized such hostility. It was the most horrible thing I could possibly have done. It was just thoughtless.")

Traitor Jane Fonda

 

[regent]

Perhaps the reason Fonda was never charged with treason or other crime, may be because of the publicity and citizen controversy that it would arouse. not something the Republicans wanted at the time? To get people thinking about that war and the arguments pro and con might have been a loser for them.

So, you feel that communist.....er, government ....school has been successful in its purpose?


Franklin Roosevelt must be quite happy with himself, huh?

If you're going to be president might as well be the best.
Hard to believe that West Point, Annapolis, Coast Guard and Air Force Academy are communist. But you're never wrong. Of course, it was West Point graduate, MacArthur, that said the nation was founded on liberalism.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Perhaps the reason Fonda was never charged with treason or other crime, may be because of the publicity and citizen controversy that it would arouse. not something the Republicans wanted at the time? To get people thinking about that war and the arguments pro and con might have been a loser for them.

So, you feel that communist.....er, government ....school has been successful in its purpose?


Franklin Roosevelt must be quite happy with himself, huh?

If you're going to be president might as well be the best.
Hard to believe that West Point, Annapolis, Coast Guard and Air Force Academy are communist. But you're never wrong. Of course, it was West Point graduate, MacArthur, that said the nation was founded on liberalism.

Gads, you're a dunce.

Classical liberalism, not the tyranny that now calls itself 'liberal.'


"Classical liberalism, the optimistic doctrine that gave us liberty, democracy, progress, was a moral project. It held that human society could always better itself by encouraging the good and diminishing the bad. It rested, therefore, on a very clear understanding that there was a higher cause than self-realization: that there were such things as right and wrong and that the former should be preferred over the latter.

But the belief that autonomous individuals had the right to make subjective judgment about what was right for them in pursuit of their unchallengeable entitlement to happiness destroyed that understanding. Progressives interpreted liberty as license, thus destroying the moral rules that make freedom a virtue."
Melanie Phillips




The nation, with a view to classical liberalism, was founded on individualism, free markets, and limited constitutional government.


None of these embrace that view:
Nazism
Progressivism
Modern liberalism
Communism
Fascsm
or
Socialism


Jot that down.

 

[rightwinger]

Why were we fighting Vietnam people? Why were so many dying? Sometimes treason is the only right thing to do.

Remember how wrong you thought Muhammad Ali’s was?

I respected Ali.

But then, he was not a traitor - Fonda is.

Why did the founders give message board participants the power to decide treason and who is guilty of same? Seems that should be a function of government.

There are several 'Urban legend' accounts of Hanoi Jane's treason and treachery. The most popular is attributed to F-4E pilot, Jerry Driscoll. This alleged incident is proveably false, even by Driscoll himself. For the truth in Jane Fonda's crimes and disgusting behavior, read the book titled: Aid and Comfort, written by Henry and Erika Holzer.

However, the following account is true....
"I was a civilian economic development advisor in Vietnam, and was captured by the North Vietnamese communists in South Vietnam in 1968, and held for over 5 years. I spent 27 months in solitary confinement, one year in a cage in Cambodia, and one year in a "black box" in Hanoi. My North Vietnamese captors deliberately poisoned and murdered a female missionary, a nurse in a leprosarium in Ban me Thuot, South Vietnam, whom I buried in the jungle near the Cambodian border.

At one time, I was weighing approximately 90 lbs. (My normal weight is 170 lbs.) We were Jane Fonda's 'war criminals.'

When Jane Fonda was in Hanoi, I was asked by the camp communist political officer if I would be willing to meet with Jane Fonda. I said yes, for I would like to tell her about the real treatment we POWs received different from the treatment purported by the North Vietnamese, and parroted by Jane Fonda, as "humane and lenient." Because of this, I spent three days on a rocky floor on my knees with outstretched arms with a large amount of steel placed on my hands, and beaten with a bamboo cane till my arms dipped. I had the opportunity to meet with Jane Fonda for a couple of hours after I was released. I asked her if she would be willing to debate me on TV. She did not answer me."


To add insult to injury, when American POWs finally began to return home (some of them having been held captive for up to nine years) and describe the tortures they had endured at the hands of the North Vietnamese, Jane Fonda quickly told the country that they should "not hail the POWs as heroes, because they are hypocrites and liars." Fonda said the idea that the POWs she had met in Vietnam had been tortured was "laughable," claiming: "These were not men who had been tortured. These were not men who had been starved. These were not men who had been brainwashed." The POWs who said they had been tortured were "exaggerating, probably for their own self-interest," she asserted. She told audiences that "Never in the history of the United States have POWs come home looking like football players. These football players are no more heroes than Custer was. They're military careerists and professional killers" who are "trying to make themselves look self-righteous, but they are war criminals according to law."

Were Jane Fonda's actions treason, or were they the exercise of a private citizen's right to freedom of speech? At the time, the legal aspects of this question were moot: President Nixon was engaged in trying to wind down American involvement in Vietnam and had to face another election in a few months, so politically he had far more to lose than to gain by making a martyr out of a prominent anti-war activist. (No requirement in either the Constitution or federal law states that the U.S. must be engaged in a declared war -- or any war at all -- before charges of treason can be brought against an individual.)

On the one hand, Jane Fonda provided no tangible military assistance to the North Vietnamese: she divulged no military secrets, she gave them no money or material, and she did not interfere with the operations of the American forces. Her actions, offensive as they were to many, were primarily of propaganda value only. On the other hand, Iva Ikuko Toguri (also known as "Tokyo Rose") was convicted of treason for making propaganda broadcasts on behalf of the Japanese during World War II (although she claimed her betrayal was forced and was eventually pardoned many years later by President Gerald Ford), and Fonda's efforts could fall under the definition of "giving aid and comfort to the enemy." It is also undeniable that some American soldiers came to harm as a direct result of Fonda's actions, an outcome she should reasonably have anticipated.

In 1988, sixteen years after denouncing American soldiers as war criminals and tortured POWs as possessed of overactive imaginations, Fonda met with Vietnam veterans to apologize for her actions. It's interesting to note that this nationally-televised apology (during which she attempted to minimize her actions by characterizing them as "thoughtless and careless") came at a time when New England vets were successfully disrupting a film project she was working on. It's also interesting that not only was this apology delivered sixteen years after the fact, but it has not been offered again since. More than a few have read a huge dollop of self-interest into Fonda's 1988 apology. (Finally, in an interview in 2000, almost thirty years after the fact, Fonda admitted: "I will go to my grave regretting the photograph of me in an anti-aircraft carrier, which looks like I was trying to shoot at American planes. It hurt so many soldiers. It galvanized such hostility. It was the most horrible thing I could possibly have done. It was just thoughtless.")

Traitor Jane Fonda

Fonda quickly told the country that they should "not hail the POWs as heroes

Never realized Fonda was presidential material

 

[sealybobo]

Why were we fighting Vietnam people? Why were so many dying? Sometimes treason is the only right thing to do.

Remember how wrong you thought Muhammad Ali’s was?

I respected Ali.

But then, he was not a traitor - Fonda is.

Why did the founders give message board participants the power to decide treason and who is guilty of same? Seems that should be a function of government.

There are several 'Urban legend' accounts of Hanoi Jane's treason and treachery. The most popular is attributed to F-4E pilot, Jerry Driscoll. This alleged incident is proveably false, even by Driscoll himself. For the truth in Jane Fonda's crimes and disgusting behavior, read the book titled: Aid and Comfort, written by Henry and Erika Holzer.

However, the following account is true....
"I was a civilian economic development advisor in Vietnam, and was captured by the North Vietnamese communists in South Vietnam in 1968, and held for over 5 years. I spent 27 months in solitary confinement, one year in a cage in Cambodia, and one year in a "black box" in Hanoi. My North Vietnamese captors deliberately poisoned and murdered a female missionary, a nurse in a leprosarium in Ban me Thuot, South Vietnam, whom I buried in the jungle near the Cambodian border.

At one time, I was weighing approximately 90 lbs. (My normal weight is 170 lbs.) We were Jane Fonda's 'war criminals.'

When Jane Fonda was in Hanoi, I was asked by the camp communist political officer if I would be willing to meet with Jane Fonda. I said yes, for I would like to tell her about the real treatment we POWs received different from the treatment purported by the North Vietnamese, and parroted by Jane Fonda, as "humane and lenient." Because of this, I spent three days on a rocky floor on my knees with outstretched arms with a large amount of steel placed on my hands, and beaten with a bamboo cane till my arms dipped. I had the opportunity to meet with Jane Fonda for a couple of hours after I was released. I asked her if she would be willing to debate me on TV. She did not answer me."


To add insult to injury, when American POWs finally began to return home (some of them having been held captive for up to nine years) and describe the tortures they had endured at the hands of the North Vietnamese, Jane Fonda quickly told the country that they should "not hail the POWs as heroes, because they are hypocrites and liars." Fonda said the idea that the POWs she had met in Vietnam had been tortured was "laughable," claiming: "These were not men who had been tortured. These were not men who had been starved. These were not men who had been brainwashed." The POWs who said they had been tortured were "exaggerating, probably for their own self-interest," she asserted. She told audiences that "Never in the history of the United States have POWs come home looking like football players. These football players are no more heroes than Custer was. They're military careerists and professional killers" who are "trying to make themselves look self-righteous, but they are war criminals according to law."

Were Jane Fonda's actions treason, or were they the exercise of a private citizen's right to freedom of speech? At the time, the legal aspects of this question were moot: President Nixon was engaged in trying to wind down American involvement in Vietnam and had to face another election in a few months, so politically he had far more to lose than to gain by making a martyr out of a prominent anti-war activist. (No requirement in either the Constitution or federal law states that the U.S. must be engaged in a declared war -- or any war at all -- before charges of treason can be brought against an individual.)

On the one hand, Jane Fonda provided no tangible military assistance to the North Vietnamese: she divulged no military secrets, she gave them no money or material, and she did not interfere with the operations of the American forces. Her actions, offensive as they were to many, were primarily of propaganda value only. On the other hand, Iva Ikuko Toguri (also known as "Tokyo Rose") was convicted of treason for making propaganda broadcasts on behalf of the Japanese during World War II (although she claimed her betrayal was forced and was eventually pardoned many years later by President Gerald Ford), and Fonda's efforts could fall under the definition of "giving aid and comfort to the enemy." It is also undeniable that some American soldiers came to harm as a direct result of Fonda's actions, an outcome she should reasonably have anticipated.

In 1988, sixteen years after denouncing American soldiers as war criminals and tortured POWs as possessed of overactive imaginations, Fonda met with Vietnam veterans to apologize for her actions. It's interesting to note that this nationally-televised apology (during which she attempted to minimize her actions by characterizing them as "thoughtless and careless") came at a time when New England vets were successfully disrupting a film project she was working on. It's also interesting that not only was this apology delivered sixteen years after the fact, but it has not been offered again since. More than a few have read a huge dollop of self-interest into Fonda's 1988 apology. (Finally, in an interview in 2000, almost thirty years after the fact, Fonda admitted: "I will go to my grave regretting the photograph of me in an anti-aircraft carrier, which looks like I was trying to shoot at American planes. It hurt so many soldiers. It galvanized such hostility. It was the most horrible thing I could possibly have done. It was just thoughtless.")

Traitor Jane Fonda

Donald Trump expressed no remorse Wednesday for saying last summer that Sen. John McCain was "not a war hero," despite being captured in Vietnam and tortured as a prisoner of war.

"But when he said, 'I don't like people who were captured,' then there's a great body -- there's a body of American heroes that I would -- that I would like to see him retract that statement, not about me, but about the others," McCain added.

 

[sealybobo]

Why were we fighting Vietnam people? Why were so many dying? Sometimes treason is the only right thing to do.

Remember how wrong you thought Muhammad Ali’s was?

I respected Ali.

But then, he was not a traitor - Fonda is.

Why did the founders give message board participants the power to decide treason and who is guilty of same? Seems that should be a function of government.

There are several 'Urban legend' accounts of Hanoi Jane's treason and treachery. The most popular is attributed to F-4E pilot, Jerry Driscoll. This alleged incident is proveably false, even by Driscoll himself. For the truth in Jane Fonda's crimes and disgusting behavior, read the book titled: Aid and Comfort, written by Henry and Erika Holzer.

However, the following account is true....
"I was a civilian economic development advisor in Vietnam, and was captured by the North Vietnamese communists in South Vietnam in 1968, and held for over 5 years. I spent 27 months in solitary confinement, one year in a cage in Cambodia, and one year in a "black box" in Hanoi. My North Vietnamese captors deliberately poisoned and murdered a female missionary, a nurse in a leprosarium in Ban me Thuot, South Vietnam, whom I buried in the jungle near the Cambodian border.

At one time, I was weighing approximately 90 lbs. (My normal weight is 170 lbs.) We were Jane Fonda's 'war criminals.'

When Jane Fonda was in Hanoi, I was asked by the camp communist political officer if I would be willing to meet with Jane Fonda. I said yes, for I would like to tell her about the real treatment we POWs received different from the treatment purported by the North Vietnamese, and parroted by Jane Fonda, as "humane and lenient." Because of this, I spent three days on a rocky floor on my knees with outstretched arms with a large amount of steel placed on my hands, and beaten with a bamboo cane till my arms dipped. I had the opportunity to meet with Jane Fonda for a couple of hours after I was released. I asked her if she would be willing to debate me on TV. She did not answer me."


To add insult to injury, when American POWs finally began to return home (some of them having been held captive for up to nine years) and describe the tortures they had endured at the hands of the North Vietnamese, Jane Fonda quickly told the country that they should "not hail the POWs as heroes, because they are hypocrites and liars." Fonda said the idea that the POWs she had met in Vietnam had been tortured was "laughable," claiming: "These were not men who had been tortured. These were not men who had been starved. These were not men who had been brainwashed." The POWs who said they had been tortured were "exaggerating, probably for their own self-interest," she asserted. She told audiences that "Never in the history of the United States have POWs come home looking like football players. These football players are no more heroes than Custer was. They're military careerists and professional killers" who are "trying to make themselves look self-righteous, but they are war criminals according to law."

Were Jane Fonda's actions treason, or were they the exercise of a private citizen's right to freedom of speech? At the time, the legal aspects of this question were moot: President Nixon was engaged in trying to wind down American involvement in Vietnam and had to face another election in a few months, so politically he had far more to lose than to gain by making a martyr out of a prominent anti-war activist. (No requirement in either the Constitution or federal law states that the U.S. must be engaged in a declared war -- or any war at all -- before charges of treason can be brought against an individual.)

On the one hand, Jane Fonda provided no tangible military assistance to the North Vietnamese: she divulged no military secrets, she gave them no money or material, and she did not interfere with the operations of the American forces. Her actions, offensive as they were to many, were primarily of propaganda value only. On the other hand, Iva Ikuko Toguri (also known as "Tokyo Rose") was convicted of treason for making propaganda broadcasts on behalf of the Japanese during World War II (although she claimed her betrayal was forced and was eventually pardoned many years later by President Gerald Ford), and Fonda's efforts could fall under the definition of "giving aid and comfort to the enemy." It is also undeniable that some American soldiers came to harm as a direct result of Fonda's actions, an outcome she should reasonably have anticipated.

In 1988, sixteen years after denouncing American soldiers as war criminals and tortured POWs as possessed of overactive imaginations, Fonda met with Vietnam veterans to apologize for her actions. It's interesting to note that this nationally-televised apology (during which she attempted to minimize her actions by characterizing them as "thoughtless and careless") came at a time when New England vets were successfully disrupting a film project she was working on. It's also interesting that not only was this apology delivered sixteen years after the fact, but it has not been offered again since. More than a few have read a huge dollop of self-interest into Fonda's 1988 apology. (Finally, in an interview in 2000, almost thirty years after the fact, Fonda admitted: "I will go to my grave regretting the photograph of me in an anti-aircraft carrier, which looks like I was trying to shoot at American planes. It hurt so many soldiers. It galvanized such hostility. It was the most horrible thing I could possibly have done. It was just thoughtless.")

Traitor Jane Fonda

Fonda quickly told the country that they should "not hail the POWs as heroes

Never realized Fonda was presidential material

How could any Republican who voted for Trump mind her saying that?

Donald Trump expressed no remorse Wednesday for saying last summer that Sen. John McCain was "not a war hero," despite being captured in Vietnam and tortured as a prisoner of war.

Then he said, 'I don't like people who were captured,'

 

[rightwinger]

Why were we fighting Vietnam people? Why were so many dying? Sometimes treason is the only right thing to do.

Remember how wrong you thought Muhammad Ali’s was?

I respected Ali.

But then, he was not a traitor - Fonda is.

Why did the founders give message board participants the power to decide treason and who is guilty of same? Seems that should be a function of government.

There are several 'Urban legend' accounts of Hanoi Jane's treason and treachery. The most popular is attributed to F-4E pilot, Jerry Driscoll. This alleged incident is proveably false, even by Driscoll himself. For the truth in Jane Fonda's crimes and disgusting behavior, read the book titled: Aid and Comfort, written by Henry and Erika Holzer.

However, the following account is true....
"I was a civilian economic development advisor in Vietnam, and was captured by the North Vietnamese communists in South Vietnam in 1968, and held for over 5 years. I spent 27 months in solitary confinement, one year in a cage in Cambodia, and one year in a "black box" in Hanoi. My North Vietnamese captors deliberately poisoned and murdered a female missionary, a nurse in a leprosarium in Ban me Thuot, South Vietnam, whom I buried in the jungle near the Cambodian border.

At one time, I was weighing approximately 90 lbs. (My normal weight is 170 lbs.) We were Jane Fonda's 'war criminals.'

When Jane Fonda was in Hanoi, I was asked by the camp communist political officer if I would be willing to meet with Jane Fonda. I said yes, for I would like to tell her about the real treatment we POWs received different from the treatment purported by the North Vietnamese, and parroted by Jane Fonda, as "humane and lenient." Because of this, I spent three days on a rocky floor on my knees with outstretched arms with a large amount of steel placed on my hands, and beaten with a bamboo cane till my arms dipped. I had the opportunity to meet with Jane Fonda for a couple of hours after I was released. I asked her if she would be willing to debate me on TV. She did not answer me."


To add insult to injury, when American POWs finally began to return home (some of them having been held captive for up to nine years) and describe the tortures they had endured at the hands of the North Vietnamese, Jane Fonda quickly told the country that they should "not hail the POWs as heroes, because they are hypocrites and liars." Fonda said the idea that the POWs she had met in Vietnam had been tortured was "laughable," claiming: "These were not men who had been tortured. These were not men who had been starved. These were not men who had been brainwashed." The POWs who said they had been tortured were "exaggerating, probably for their own self-interest," she asserted. She told audiences that "Never in the history of the United States have POWs come home looking like football players. These football players are no more heroes than Custer was. They're military careerists and professional killers" who are "trying to make themselves look self-righteous, but they are war criminals according to law."

Were Jane Fonda's actions treason, or were they the exercise of a private citizen's right to freedom of speech? At the time, the legal aspects of this question were moot: President Nixon was engaged in trying to wind down American involvement in Vietnam and had to face another election in a few months, so politically he had far more to lose than to gain by making a martyr out of a prominent anti-war activist. (No requirement in either the Constitution or federal law states that the U.S. must be engaged in a declared war -- or any war at all -- before charges of treason can be brought against an individual.)

On the one hand, Jane Fonda provided no tangible military assistance to the North Vietnamese: she divulged no military secrets, she gave them no money or material, and she did not interfere with the operations of the American forces. Her actions, offensive as they were to many, were primarily of propaganda value only. On the other hand, Iva Ikuko Toguri (also known as "Tokyo Rose") was convicted of treason for making propaganda broadcasts on behalf of the Japanese during World War II (although she claimed her betrayal was forced and was eventually pardoned many years later by President Gerald Ford), and Fonda's efforts could fall under the definition of "giving aid and comfort to the enemy." It is also undeniable that some American soldiers came to harm as a direct result of Fonda's actions, an outcome she should reasonably have anticipated.

In 1988, sixteen years after denouncing American soldiers as war criminals and tortured POWs as possessed of overactive imaginations, Fonda met with Vietnam veterans to apologize for her actions. It's interesting to note that this nationally-televised apology (during which she attempted to minimize her actions by characterizing them as "thoughtless and careless") came at a time when New England vets were successfully disrupting a film project she was working on. It's also interesting that not only was this apology delivered sixteen years after the fact, but it has not been offered again since. More than a few have read a huge dollop of self-interest into Fonda's 1988 apology. (Finally, in an interview in 2000, almost thirty years after the fact, Fonda admitted: "I will go to my grave regretting the photograph of me in an anti-aircraft carrier, which looks like I was trying to shoot at American planes. It hurt so many soldiers. It galvanized such hostility. It was the most horrible thing I could possibly have done. It was just thoughtless.")

Traitor Jane Fonda

Fonda quickly told the country that they should "not hail the POWs as heroes

Never realized Fonda was presidential material

How could any Republican who voted for Trump mind her saying that?

Donald Trump expressed no remorse Wednesday for saying last summer that Sen. John McCain was "not a war hero," despite being captured in Vietnam and tortured as a prisoner of war.

Then he said, 'I don't like people who were captured,'

Bone Spurs Donnie is hailed as a patriot even though he considers POWs to be losers

 

[sealybobo]

I respected Ali.

But then, he was not a traitor - Fonda is.

Why did the founders give message board participants the power to decide treason and who is guilty of same? Seems that should be a function of government.

There are several 'Urban legend' accounts of Hanoi Jane's treason and treachery. The most popular is attributed to F-4E pilot, Jerry Driscoll. This alleged incident is proveably false, even by Driscoll himself. For the truth in Jane Fonda's crimes and disgusting behavior, read the book titled: Aid and Comfort, written by Henry and Erika Holzer.

However, the following account is true....
"I was a civilian economic development advisor in Vietnam, and was captured by the North Vietnamese communists in South Vietnam in 1968, and held for over 5 years. I spent 27 months in solitary confinement, one year in a cage in Cambodia, and one year in a "black box" in Hanoi. My North Vietnamese captors deliberately poisoned and murdered a female missionary, a nurse in a leprosarium in Ban me Thuot, South Vietnam, whom I buried in the jungle near the Cambodian border.

At one time, I was weighing approximately 90 lbs. (My normal weight is 170 lbs.) We were Jane Fonda's 'war criminals.'

When Jane Fonda was in Hanoi, I was asked by the camp communist political officer if I would be willing to meet with Jane Fonda. I said yes, for I would like to tell her about the real treatment we POWs received different from the treatment purported by the North Vietnamese, and parroted by Jane Fonda, as "humane and lenient." Because of this, I spent three days on a rocky floor on my knees with outstretched arms with a large amount of steel placed on my hands, and beaten with a bamboo cane till my arms dipped. I had the opportunity to meet with Jane Fonda for a couple of hours after I was released. I asked her if she would be willing to debate me on TV. She did not answer me."


To add insult to injury, when American POWs finally began to return home (some of them having been held captive for up to nine years) and describe the tortures they had endured at the hands of the North Vietnamese, Jane Fonda quickly told the country that they should "not hail the POWs as heroes, because they are hypocrites and liars." Fonda said the idea that the POWs she had met in Vietnam had been tortured was "laughable," claiming: "These were not men who had been tortured. These were not men who had been starved. These were not men who had been brainwashed." The POWs who said they had been tortured were "exaggerating, probably for their own self-interest," she asserted. She told audiences that "Never in the history of the United States have POWs come home looking like football players. These football players are no more heroes than Custer was. They're military careerists and professional killers" who are "trying to make themselves look self-righteous, but they are war criminals according to law."

Were Jane Fonda's actions treason, or were they the exercise of a private citizen's right to freedom of speech? At the time, the legal aspects of this question were moot: President Nixon was engaged in trying to wind down American involvement in Vietnam and had to face another election in a few months, so politically he had far more to lose than to gain by making a martyr out of a prominent anti-war activist. (No requirement in either the Constitution or federal law states that the U.S. must be engaged in a declared war -- or any war at all -- before charges of treason can be brought against an individual.)

On the one hand, Jane Fonda provided no tangible military assistance to the North Vietnamese: she divulged no military secrets, she gave them no money or material, and she did not interfere with the operations of the American forces. Her actions, offensive as they were to many, were primarily of propaganda value only. On the other hand, Iva Ikuko Toguri (also known as "Tokyo Rose") was convicted of treason for making propaganda broadcasts on behalf of the Japanese during World War II (although she claimed her betrayal was forced and was eventually pardoned many years later by President Gerald Ford), and Fonda's efforts could fall under the definition of "giving aid and comfort to the enemy." It is also undeniable that some American soldiers came to harm as a direct result of Fonda's actions, an outcome she should reasonably have anticipated.

In 1988, sixteen years after denouncing American soldiers as war criminals and tortured POWs as possessed of overactive imaginations, Fonda met with Vietnam veterans to apologize for her actions. It's interesting to note that this nationally-televised apology (during which she attempted to minimize her actions by characterizing them as "thoughtless and careless") came at a time when New England vets were successfully disrupting a film project she was working on. It's also interesting that not only was this apology delivered sixteen years after the fact, but it has not been offered again since. More than a few have read a huge dollop of self-interest into Fonda's 1988 apology. (Finally, in an interview in 2000, almost thirty years after the fact, Fonda admitted: "I will go to my grave regretting the photograph of me in an anti-aircraft carrier, which looks like I was trying to shoot at American planes. It hurt so many soldiers. It galvanized such hostility. It was the most horrible thing I could possibly have done. It was just thoughtless.")

Traitor Jane Fonda

Fonda quickly told the country that they should "not hail the POWs as heroes

Never realized Fonda was presidential material

How could any Republican who voted for Trump mind her saying that?

Donald Trump expressed no remorse Wednesday for saying last summer that Sen. John McCain was "not a war hero," despite being captured in Vietnam and tortured as a prisoner of war.

Then he said, 'I don't like people who were captured,'

Bone Spurs Donnie is hailed as a patriot even though he considers POWs to be losers

Notice not a word from republicans?

Trump even admitted there were no wmds in Iraq. It’s why he won the republican primaries. He told some truths

 

[Picaro]

Jane Fonda risked her career to end a senseless war

Her efforts, along with other protestors, put pressure on Washington to end a useless war. If allowed to continue unchallenged....the war probably would have gone on another ten years

That she did and it was a worthy cause, yet she crossed the line when she supported the North Vietnamese.

Even in groups such as the S.D.S.. there was a struggle between responsible liberals who wanted to keep the message focused on getting our boys home because they were dying unnecessarily and irresponsible leftist radicals who crossed the same line as Fonda. What Fonda did was to give the impression that all those against the war were sympathizing with the North Vietnamese, which wasn't the case.

Fonda's biggest fault was she could not separate the soldier from the war

She was your typical shallow fashion victim. She has no genuine principles, like most Burb Brats suffering from Affluenza, then and now. and that goes for both left and right wing fashion victims. Nothing is ever real to them, just media moments and they move on, like little birds with no attention spans, to the next Thing of the Moment. She was nothing special, and certainly not in the same league with vermin like Kerry, Hillary, Bill, and Obama by a long shot.

The charge of 'treason' is problematic, since no declaration of war was ever issued, one of my pet peeves over VN, and a huge mistake. Besides, we hardly had any troops left by the end of 1972. I can find far worse than Fonda, when it comes to real treason. She's irrelevant, and still is. She had a couple of good roles, owing to excellent direction and writing, that's about it. People still obsessing over her need to get a fricking life. Seriously.

 

[Picaro]

Why did the founders give message board participants the power to decide treason and who is guilty of same? Seems that should be a function of government.

There are several 'Urban legend' accounts of Hanoi Jane's treason and treachery. The most popular is attributed to F-4E pilot, Jerry Driscoll. This alleged incident is proveably false, even by Driscoll himself. For the truth in Jane Fonda's crimes and disgusting behavior, read the book titled: Aid and Comfort, written by Henry and Erika Holzer.

However, the following account is true....
"I was a civilian economic development advisor in Vietnam, and was captured by the North Vietnamese communists in South Vietnam in 1968, and held for over 5 years. I spent 27 months in solitary confinement, one year in a cage in Cambodia, and one year in a "black box" in Hanoi. My North Vietnamese captors deliberately poisoned and murdered a female missionary, a nurse in a leprosarium in Ban me Thuot, South Vietnam, whom I buried in the jungle near the Cambodian border.

At one time, I was weighing approximately 90 lbs. (My normal weight is 170 lbs.) We were Jane Fonda's 'war criminals.'

When Jane Fonda was in Hanoi, I was asked by the camp communist political officer if I would be willing to meet with Jane Fonda. I said yes, for I would like to tell her about the real treatment we POWs received different from the treatment purported by the North Vietnamese, and parroted by Jane Fonda, as "humane and lenient." Because of this, I spent three days on a rocky floor on my knees with outstretched arms with a large amount of steel placed on my hands, and beaten with a bamboo cane till my arms dipped. I had the opportunity to meet with Jane Fonda for a couple of hours after I was released. I asked her if she would be willing to debate me on TV. She did not answer me."


To add insult to injury, when American POWs finally began to return home (some of them having been held captive for up to nine years) and describe the tortures they had endured at the hands of the North Vietnamese, Jane Fonda quickly told the country that they should "not hail the POWs as heroes, because they are hypocrites and liars." Fonda said the idea that the POWs she had met in Vietnam had been tortured was "laughable," claiming: "These were not men who had been tortured. These were not men who had been starved. These were not men who had been brainwashed." The POWs who said they had been tortured were "exaggerating, probably for their own self-interest," she asserted. She told audiences that "Never in the history of the United States have POWs come home looking like football players. These football players are no more heroes than Custer was. They're military careerists and professional killers" who are "trying to make themselves look self-righteous, but they are war criminals according to law."

Were Jane Fonda's actions treason, or were they the exercise of a private citizen's right to freedom of speech? At the time, the legal aspects of this question were moot: President Nixon was engaged in trying to wind down American involvement in Vietnam and had to face another election in a few months, so politically he had far more to lose than to gain by making a martyr out of a prominent anti-war activist. (No requirement in either the Constitution or federal law states that the U.S. must be engaged in a declared war -- or any war at all -- before charges of treason can be brought against an individual.)

On the one hand, Jane Fonda provided no tangible military assistance to the North Vietnamese: she divulged no military secrets, she gave them no money or material, and she did not interfere with the operations of the American forces. Her actions, offensive as they were to many, were primarily of propaganda value only. On the other hand, Iva Ikuko Toguri (also known as "Tokyo Rose") was convicted of treason for making propaganda broadcasts on behalf of the Japanese during World War II (although she claimed her betrayal was forced and was eventually pardoned many years later by President Gerald Ford), and Fonda's efforts could fall under the definition of "giving aid and comfort to the enemy." It is also undeniable that some American soldiers came to harm as a direct result of Fonda's actions, an outcome she should reasonably have anticipated.

In 1988, sixteen years after denouncing American soldiers as war criminals and tortured POWs as possessed of overactive imaginations, Fonda met with Vietnam veterans to apologize for her actions. It's interesting to note that this nationally-televised apology (during which she attempted to minimize her actions by characterizing them as "thoughtless and careless") came at a time when New England vets were successfully disrupting a film project she was working on. It's also interesting that not only was this apology delivered sixteen years after the fact, but it has not been offered again since. More than a few have read a huge dollop of self-interest into Fonda's 1988 apology. (Finally, in an interview in 2000, almost thirty years after the fact, Fonda admitted: "I will go to my grave regretting the photograph of me in an anti-aircraft carrier, which looks like I was trying to shoot at American planes. It hurt so many soldiers. It galvanized such hostility. It was the most horrible thing I could possibly have done. It was just thoughtless.")

Traitor Jane Fonda

Fonda quickly told the country that they should "not hail the POWs as heroes

Never realized Fonda was presidential material

How could any Republican who voted for Trump mind her saying that?

Donald Trump expressed no remorse Wednesday for saying last summer that Sen. John McCain was "not a war hero," despite being captured in Vietnam and tortured as a prisoner of war.

Then he said, 'I don't like people who were captured,'

Bone Spurs Donnie is hailed as a patriot even though he considers POWs to be losers

Notice not a word from republicans?

Trump even admitted there were no wmds in Iraq. It’s why he won the republican primaries. He told some truths

So what? Saddam had already done far more than enough to justify wiping his sorry ass out, didn't need no 'wmds' to justify it. Besides, he himself insisted he had them, so your argument is just silly.

 

[rightwinger]

Jane Fonda risked her career to end a senseless war

Her efforts, along with other protestors, put pressure on Washington to end a useless war. If allowed to continue unchallenged....the war probably would have gone on another ten years

That she did and it was a worthy cause, yet she crossed the line when she supported the North Vietnamese.

Even in groups such as the S.D.S.. there was a struggle between responsible liberals who wanted to keep the message focused on getting our boys home because they were dying unnecessarily and irresponsible leftist radicals who crossed the same line as Fonda. What Fonda did was to give the impression that all those against the war were sympathizing with the North Vietnamese, which wasn't the case.

Fonda's biggest fault was she could not separate the soldier from the war

She was your typical shallow fashion victim. She has no genuine principles, like most Burb Brats suffering from affluence, and that goes for both left and right wing fashion victims. Nothing is ever real to them, just media moments and they move on, like little birds with no attention spans, to the next Thing of the Moment. She was nothing special, and certainly not in the same league with vermin like Kerry, Hillary, Bill, and Obama by a long shot.

The charge of 'treason' is problematic, since no declaration of war was ever issued, one of my pet peeves over VN, and a huge mistake. Besides, we hardly had any troops left by the end of 1972. I can find far worse than Fonda, when it comes to real treason. She's irrelevant, and still is. She had a couple of good roles, owing to excellent direction and writing, that's about it. People still obsessing over her need to get a fricking life. Seriously.

Actually, Jane was raised as Hollywood royalty
Parts just fell into her lap because Henry Fonda was her father

Easiest thing would be just to wrap herself in the flag, support the war and let the money flow in. That is what most in Hollywood did

Instead, she risked it all. Fought against an unjustifiable war. Called out the military industrial complex. Helped end a war before it took more lives