Jane Fonda tells veterans boycotting her movie 'The Butler' to 'get a life'

[MikeK]

And you do?

How about all the POWs who were there say it didn't happen

............and you are basing that on SNOPES? Would you like to buy a bridge too? - J.

Snopes has an unimpeachable reputation for its research accuracy. Unless you can produce convincing evidence to support what is no more than a floating fable, why not believe Snopes?

Do you also believe the tales about returning GIs being spat on? If so, I can point you to an entire book which is devoted to exhaustive research that proves those reports were entirely without substance.

These propaganda items are specifically intended to appeal to patriotic fervor. But you shouldn't allow yourself to be so readily taken in by them. Ask for some kind of evidence.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

My husband is a Vietnam vet and he was spit on. What do you want me to do? Call him a liar? No. He isn't a liar. They spit on him. This was the attitude towards our soldiers who fought against communism. The same attitude is prevalent today. What a shame. - Jeri

 

[BlueGin]

How about all the POWs who were there say it didn't happen

............and you are basing that on SNOPES? Would you like to buy a bridge too? - J.

Snopes has an unimpeachable reputation for its research accuracy. Unless you can produce convincing evidence to support what is no more than a floating fable, why not believe Snopes?

Do you also believe the tales about returning GIs being spat on? If so, I can point you to an entire book which is devoted to exhaustive research that proves those reports were entirely without substance.

These propaganda items are specifically intended to appeal to patriotic fervor. But you shouldn't allow yourself to be so readily taken in by them. Ask for some kind of evidence.

Nope we should just listen to the propaganda that Kerry and Fonda and their Ilk dished out that our soldiers were nothing but baby killers. The drum that was still being beaten as our soldiers were coming home to make sure American's did not see them as hero's of war or with honor. Spare me.

 

[MikeK]

I respect your opinion, mike, but she is pond scum to me and will forever be pond scum.

Just give it some thought, Gracie. Think about why she took such a risk. She could have been killed right there in Vietnam, and she could not have been more aggressively offensive to the Administration.

What do you suppose was her motive?

No administration would have dared kill Henry Fonda's daughter!

I didn't mean to imply that. What I meant is she left the luxurious safety of Malibu to raise hell in an active war zone.

Why? Other than the opportunity to have her message clearly heard, what did she stand to gain? Money? She had plenty of that. Fame? She had too much of that and had become somewhat reclusive.

The simple fact is she had a mission -- a commendable one.

 

[rightwinger]

And you do?

How about all the POWs who were there say it didn't happen

............and you are basing that on SNOPES? Would you like to buy a bridge too? - J.

Absolutely snopes........much better source than the fantasies you tell
Still waiting for you to refute

 

[BlueGin]

My husband is a Vietnam vet and he was spit on. What do you want me to do? Call him a liar? No. He isn't a liar. They spit on him. This was the attitude towards our soldiers who fought against communism. The same attitude is prevalent today. What a shame. - Jeri

Yep...the anti war crowd did the same thing to the first POW's that came home from Iraq...that they did to the soldiers in Nam. Belittled their service and tried to play down their honor and service so they were not viewed in a positive light.

 

[rightwinger]

My husband is a Vietnam vet and he was spit on. What do you want me to do? Call him a liar? No. He isn't a liar. They spit on him. This was the attitude towards our soldiers who fought against communism. The same attitude is prevalent today. What a shame. - Jeri

Please tell us his story. It must be interesting

 

[BlueGin]

Just give it some thought, Gracie. Think about why she took such a risk. She could have been killed right there in Vietnam, and she could not have been more aggressively offensive to the Administration.

What do you suppose was her motive?

No administration would have dared kill Henry Fonda's daughter!

I didn't mean to imply that. What I meant is she left the luxurious safety of Malibu to raise hell in an active war zone.

Why? Other than the opportunity to have her message clearly heard, what did she stand to gain? Money? She had plenty of that. Fame? She had too much of that and had become somewhat reclusive.

The simple fact is she had a mission -- a commendable one.

For publicity.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

............and you are basing that on SNOPES? Would you like to buy a bridge too? - J.

Snopes has an unimpeachable reputation for its research accuracy. Unless you can produce convincing evidence to support what is no more than a floating fable, why not believe Snopes?

Do you also believe the tales about returning GIs being spat on? If so, I can point you to an entire book which is devoted to exhaustive research that proves those reports were entirely without substance.

These propaganda items are specifically intended to appeal to patriotic fervor. But you shouldn't allow yourself to be so readily taken in by them. Ask for some kind of evidence.

Nope we should just listen to the propaganda that Kerry and Fonda and their Ilk dished out that our soldiers were nothing but baby killers. The drum that was still being beaten as our soldiers were coming home to make sure American's did not see them as hero's of war or with honor. Spare me.

You go, girl!

 

[Sunshine]

No administration would have dared kill Henry Fonda's daughter!

I didn't mean to imply that. What I meant is she left the luxurious safety of Malibu to raise hell in an active war zone.

Why? Other than the opportunity to have her message clearly heard, what did she stand to gain? Money? She had plenty of that. Fame? She had too much of that and had become somewhat reclusive.

The simple fact is she had a mission -- a commendable one.

For publicity.

Exactly. I remember her and all her histrionics back in those days. When you engage in controversial activities, you pay a price. I mean who didn't boycott Sinead O'Connor, and she was just on a mission she believed in too! Anybody remember that girl group? They weren't my generation and I don't recall their names, but I do recall they hit bottom rather quickly. Or even Johnny Depp.

It was the Dixie Chicks.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

My husband is a Vietnam vet and he was spit on. What do you want me to do? Call him a liar? No. He isn't a liar. They spit on him. This was the attitude towards our soldiers who fought against communism. The same attitude is prevalent today. What a shame. - Jeri

Please tell us his story. It must be interesting

Of his homecoming? I'm sure your type are salivating at the idea of what happened. Truth is it isn't any secret. It happened all over the country!

 

[Sunshine]

When I was in school, I had a teacher who walked in one day and asked: "Where is your past?"

We discussed and philosophied as high schoolers do. In the end, the answer was: "Your past is always in front of you."

She is a high profile person who took a very controversial stance. That will always be in her future.

 

[MikeK]

My husband is a Vietnam vet and he was spit on. What do you want me to do? Call him a liar? No. He isn't a liar. They spit on him. This was the attitude towards our soldiers who fought against communism. The same attitude is prevalent today. What a shame. - Jeri

Where did it happen? Were there witnesses? And what was done about it?

I was very active in the Vietnam protest movement and I'd attended many demonstrations, including some in airports hosting GIs returning home from Vietnam. Let me tell you the stories about spitting on and hostile confrontations are bullshit!

First of all, I am an ex-Marine. Many other protesters in my (South Brooklyn) organization were veterans as well, including quite a few 'Nam vets who usually turned up in utilities with battle decorations attached. We would not have stood for any such conduct. Anyone who spit on one of those fellows would have had his ass kicked.

The only thing we did is ask those returning GIs about their experiences and ask them to join us. That's it!

 

[Gracie]

Mike, with all due respect....just because YOU didn't get spit on or never saw it for yourself does NOT mean it didn't happen. I saw it. Witnessed it. Friends who came home told me they were spat on. Sorry, but my friends making it home from vietnam alive were NOT liars. Nor am I a liar.
Why do you think everyone is so gungho on our soldiers this go round? Because most remember what was done to Nam vets coming home and said that would never happen again.

 

[rightwinger]

My husband is a Vietnam vet and he was spit on. What do you want me to do? Call him a liar? No. He isn't a liar. They spit on him. This was the attitude towards our soldiers who fought against communism. The same attitude is prevalent today. What a shame. - Jeri

Please tell us his story. It must be interesting

Of his homecoming? I'm sure your type are salivating at the idea of what happened. Truth is it isn't any secret. It happened all over the country!

You have been lying throughout this thread and your fantasies about your husband being spat on are a lie too

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

He didn't do anything. He was in shock. What would you think he'd do after coming home from 2 tours? I'm thankful for your serving in the Marines. I'm glad you didn't spit on any returning vietnam war heroes. In my eyes? They are heroes. They put it all on the line for their country. I'm proud of all of them.

-Jeri

 

[Sunshine]

Mike, with all due respect....just because YOU didn't get spit on or never saw it for yourself does NOT mean it didn't happen. I saw it. Witnessed it. Friends who came home told me they were spat on. Sorry, but my friends making it home from vietnam alive were NOT liars. Nor am I a liar.
Why do you think everyone is so gungho on our soldiers this go round? Because most remember what was done to Nam vets coming home and said that would never happen again.

That is exactly right. You cannot begin to imagine the amount of money that is going to the military and the VA for mental health programs. Psychiatry has always been a specialty in medicine. But veterans have become a specialty in psychiatry.

They have programs for things people can't even imagine, military sexual trauma, prolonged exposure, traumatic brain injury. Many, many more! That is because the veteran's groups and parent groups said, 'By God, it won't happen to MY son!'

 

[MikeK]

My husband is a Vietnam vet and he was spit on. What do you want me to do? Call him a liar? No. He isn't a liar. They spit on him. This was the attitude towards our soldiers who fought against communism. The same attitude is prevalent today. What a shame. - Jeri

Please tell us his story. It must be interesting

Of his homecoming? I'm sure your type are salivating at the idea of what happened. Truth is it isn't any secret. It happened all over the country!

Spitting on the Troops: Old Myth, New Rumors
(Excerpt)

The largest anti-war movement in American history emerged during the weeks leading up to the attack on Iraq. Capped by massive rallies in Washington, DC on January 18 and New York City on February 15, the movement spanned generations and united diverse political interests to degrees that surprised participants and pundits alike.

As the war against Iraq commenced, however, public opinion began to shift. The surprisingly favorable coverage given protests in the weeks leading to the bombing of Baghdad on March 19 gave way to evening news reports about the growing numbers of people turning out for demonstrations and vigils to "support our troops." The nightly-news footage of parents and neighbors distraught over their loved ones' deployment to the danger zone testified to the emotional wreckage left on the homefront when troops ship off to war. At the same time, whatever the intent and stated purpose of the public musterings for the troops, the reality was that they were viewed with skepticism by many observers as thinly-veiled pep rallies for the war policy of the Bush administration.

There is still another layer to the pro-troop rhetoric that has escaped commentary, however. Implicit in it is the assumption that someone doesn't support the men and women in uniform. Behind that supposition lurk the myths and legends of homefront betrayal that have bedeviled American political culture since the Vietnam War, and which have been resuscitated recently by rumors of hostility toward military personnel.

By early April, stories were circulating in several US cities about uniformed military personnel being spat on or otherwise mistreated. In Asheville, North Carolina, two Marines were rumored to have been spat upon, while in Spokane, Washington, a threat to "spit on the troops when they return from Iraq" was reportedly issued. In Burlington, Vermont, a leader of the state National Guard told local television, "We've had some spitting incidents," and then claimed one of his Guardswomen had been stoned by anti-war teenagers.

Upon further investigation, none of the stories panned out - the Spokane "threat" stemmed from the misreading of a letter in the local paper promising that opponents of the war would not spit on returning soldiers - and yet, in each case the rumors were used to stoke pro-war rallies.

Many of the current stories are accompanied by stories of spat-upon Vietnam veterans. The recent story of spitting in Asheville, for example, was traced to a local businessman who says he is a veteran who was also spat upon and called a "baby killer" when he returned from Vietnam. An Associated Press story of April 9 reported stories of spat-upon Vietnam veterans surfacing in several cities including Spicer, Minnesota whose mayor said he was spat upon in the San Francisco airport while coming home from Vietnam in 1971.

Similar stories became quite popular during the Gulf War of 1991 which raised my curiosity about where they came from and why they were believed. There is nothing in the historical record - news or police reports, for example - suggesting they really happened. In fact, the Veterans Administration commissioned a Harris Poll in 1971 that found 94% of Vietnam veterans reporting friendly homecomings from their age-group peers who had not served in the military. Moreover, the historical record is rich with the details of solidarity and mutuality between the anti-war movement and Vietnam veterans. The real truth, in other words, is that anti-war activists reached out to Vietnam veterans and veterans joined the movement in large numbers.

Stories of spat-upon Vietnam veterans are bogus. Born out of accusations made by the Nixon administration, they were enlivened in popular culture (recall Rambo saying he was spat on by those maggots at the airport) and enhanced in the imaginations of Vietnam-generation men - some veterans, some not. The stories besmirch the reputation of the anti-war movement and help construct an alibi for why we lost the war: had it not been for the betrayal by liberals in Washington and radicals in the street, we could have defeated the Vietnamese. The stories also erase from public memory the image, discomforting to some Americans, of Vietnam veterans who helped end the carnage they had been part of.

The facsimiles of spat-upon veteran stories that are surfacing now confuse the public dialogue surrounding the war. Debate about the war itself and the politics that got us into it is being displaced by the phony issue of who supports the troops. Everyone supports the troops and wishes them a safe and speedy homecoming. It's the mission they have been sent on that is dividing the nation and it is the mission that we have a right and obligation to question.

The "support the troops" symbolism also comes with a hidden agenda, a subtext that is about the anti-war movement. Understandably, the war brings a lot of emotion to the surface and some of that feeling stems from frustration with the economy, a sense of helplessness in the face of large-scale social and technological change, and fear that cherished American values are being lost. For some people, the real war is the war at home and the enemy coalition comes bundled for them in the anti-war movement. The redirection of their legitimate anger about the deteriorating quality of life in America onto peace activists is shortsighted scapegoating that won't solve problems.

The truth is that nobody spat on Vietnam veterans and nobody is spitting on the soldiers today. Attempts to silence opponents of the war with those figments of hostility are dishonest and should, themselves, be banished from our discourse.

Jerry Lembcke is the author of "The Spitting Image: Myth, Memory, and the Legacy of Vietnam" (New York University Press, 1998). Jerry is the New England contact for VVAW. He is also an associate professor of sociology at Holy Cross College in Worcester, Massachusetts and can be reached at 508-793-3050 or [email protected].

 

[rightwinger]

Mike, with all due respect....just because YOU didn't get spit on or never saw it for yourself does NOT mean it didn't happen. I saw it. Witnessed it. Friends who came home told me they were spat on. Sorry, but my friends making it home from vietnam alive were NOT liars. Nor am I a liar.
Why do you think everyone is so gungho on our soldiers this go round? Because most remember what was done to Nam vets coming home and said that would never happen again.

The funny part is that with the thousands of vets who claim they were spat on there is not a single story from the VietNam era reporting that it happened. No stories of fights from someone who was spat on by some hippie. Nobody reporting they saw it happen.......only recollections 40 years after the fact

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Please tell us his story. It must be interesting

Of his homecoming? I'm sure your type are salivating at the idea of what happened. Truth is it isn't any secret. It happened all over the country!

You have been lying throughout this thread and your fantasies about your husband being spat on are a lie too

Yeah and you are a rightwinger. In a pigs eye. Get lost. - Jeri