It's time to legalize drugs

[Mr. Shaman]

You guys really think open air drug markets in the US are a good idea?

We've already got 'em.

They're called liquor stores.​

 

[Article 15]

First off, cannabis isn't addictive. Studies have been done on this many times by respected medical bodies.

Second off, if cannabis were made legal tomorrow, the increase in cannabis smoking would NOT appreciably grow. It would bump up a little, but would stay pretty much the same.

Harvard Medical said light use is less than 10 joints/day. Moderate use is 11 to 25, heavy use is anything above 50/day.

Besides.......cannabis is a plant. Why should mankind make something illegal that God created?

Dude....you've said this before and it makes zero sense. Ten joints a day is in no way shape or form "light use" and there are prolly a handful of people on the planet who smoke more than 50 joints a day, if that. This study that insanely describes light marijuana use as less than 10 joints per day doesn't exist. I can only find random articles that allude to a 2007 Harvard study on marijuana and cigarettes and how likely users are to develop lung cancer. Of course, the raw study is beyond my google-fu but given the numbers you are citing I suspect those are the numbers the study cited for light, moderate, and heavy cigarette smokers and not marijuana.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

You guys really think open air drug markets in the US are a good idea?

Do it like the dutch, specific stores, government regulated, supplied by in state farms or labs. Everything checked, everything taxed. Even allow people to grow small amounts on thier property for personal use.

The only thing you would have to work on would be a blood concentration vs. incapacity scale, similar to BAC to punish people operating motor vehicles while under the influence.

Would that work with every drug though, like crystal meth and heroin? alot of the people that use those can barely hold down a job as it is.

A legal drug would sell for a mere FRACTION of it's black-market price.

In the early-'80s, an ounce of pharmaceutical-grade Cocaine sold (within legal-environs) for $30.

If someone prefers to limit their employment to day-labor....just enough to support their habit....that should be their Choice.
It's called Pursuit Of Happiness.

If it's not YOUR CHOICE....and, you prefer NOT TO SEE IT.....don't watch.

Get a Life o' YOUR own....and, move-on. Quit fuckin' worrying about what everyone (else) is doing with theirs'....in their own-home.​

 

[Mr. Shaman]

William F. Buckley and Milton Friedman, two of the most respected conservative intellectuals of the late 20th century, were among the drug war's high-profile critics. These great thinkers did not argue that recreational drug use should be celebrated -- far from it! Instead, they argued that the prohibition of drugs was causing far greater harm to society than drug abuse itself. And they were right.

When I ran for governor of New Mexico in 1994, I promised to bring a common-sense business approach to government. Everything was going to be a cost-benefit analysis -- how much of taxpayers' money are we spending, and what are we getting for the money we spend?

As governor, I was astonished to learn that half of what we were spending on law enforcement, courts and prisons was drug-related, and yet illegal drugs were cheaper, stronger and more available than ever. After further study, it became obvious to me that the drug war had created a lucrative black market and was enriching and empowering violent gangs and cartels. In many ways, it was like alcohol prohibition all over again, with similarly disastrous results.

Gary Johnson: Face reality, legalize pot - CNN.com

Is your guilty conscience bothering you again?

If that was the case, what business is that, of YOURS'????

​

 

[Mr. Shaman]

You guys really think open air drug markets in the US are a good idea?

Do it like the dutch, specific stores, government regulated, supplied by in state farms or labs. Everything checked, everything taxed. Even allow people to grow small amounts on thier property for personal use.

The only thing you would have to work on would be a blood concentration vs. incapacity scale, similar to BAC to punish people operating motor vehicles while under the influence.

The Dutch experiment is a failure, as they try to stuff the genie back in the bottle.

I have a better solution: give each addict caught with drugs the absolute best rehab program available. If caught again, execute them. Execute dealers even on a first time offense.
That will solve the drug problem.

Better, yet......let's start whackin' people who spend too-much-time telling everyone-else how to live THEIR Life?​

 

[Mr. Shaman]

You guys really think open air drug markets in the US are a good idea?

Do it like the dutch, specific stores, government regulated, supplied by in state farms or labs. Everything checked, everything taxed. Even allow people to grow small amounts on thier property for personal use.

The only thing you would have to work on would be a blood concentration vs. incapacity scale, similar to BAC to punish people operating motor vehicles while under the influence.

The Dutch experiment is a failure....

Bullshit!!!

They're (merely) getting (or, trying to get) more....

REGULATED.

(Try to stick to subjects you actually know-something-about.)

 

[Mr. Shaman]

The Dutch experiment is a failure, as they try to stuff the genie back in the bottle.

I have a better solution: give each addict caught with drugs the absolute best rehab program available. If caught again, execute them. Execute dealers even on a first time offense.
That will solve the drug problem.

Not all drug users are addicts. I use pot recreationally, a few times a year. Drug laws are like all laws limiting "use of X". They are desgined to protect the weakest and stupidest people in our society, while preventing people such as myself a little bit of enjoyment when we want to relax.

We already have several legal drugs, alcohol, nicotine, caffine, so there is precedent, and most of these were legal prior to their regulation in the early 20th century.

Aggressive pursuit of eliminating drug use has resulted in increased crime, transfer of our money to said criminals, increased police power, lack of respect for the law, and basically zero elimination of drug use.

its time to try something different.

I agree we need to try something different. But turning this country into a nation of zombies isnt really what I would call a good change.

....Which is (exactly) why no one asks "conservatives'" opinion.

"conservatives" are still plugged-into that archaic-concept, that....anything that makes you feel good must surely be evil.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Not all drug users are addicts. I use pot recreationally, a few times a year. Drug laws are like all laws limiting "use of X". They are desgined to protect the weakest and stupidest people in our society, while preventing people such as myself a little bit of enjoyment when we want to relax.

We already have several legal drugs, alcohol, nicotine, caffine, so there is precedent, and most of these were legal prior to their regulation in the early 20th century.

Aggressive pursuit of eliminating drug use has resulted in increased crime, transfer of our money to said criminals, increased police power, lack of respect for the law, and basically zero elimination of drug use.

its time to try something different.

I agree we need to try something different. But turning this country into a nation of zombies isnt really what I would call a good change.
I proposed something different, and something with a proven record of eliminating drug addiction.

You didnt answer my ability to use pot, not to excess. why should I be banned from using it because someone else can't control themselves?

....Pretty-much the same justification "conservatives" attach to gun-ownership; they're only as dangerous as they're used.

For some reason....."conservatives" have never managed to master the concepts o' logic, or consistency.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

I agree we need to try something different. But turning this country into a nation of zombies isnt really what I would call a good change.
I proposed something different, and something with a proven record of eliminating drug addiction.

You didnt answer my ability to use pot, not to excess. why should I be banned from using it because someone else can't control themselves?

How would legalizing pot turn us into a nation of zombies?

Also the idea of killing people based on a drug test is, honestly, abhorrent, and reeks of fascism.

Law are not made on the basis of individuals. I can safely drive a car at 90mph. That doesnt mean speed limits shouldn't apply to me.
Legalizing drugs will incresae their use.

That's what Miss Cleo says, huh????

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Not all drug users are addicts. I use pot recreationally, a few times a year. Drug laws are like all laws limiting "use of X". They are desgined to protect the weakest and stupidest people in our society, while preventing people such as myself a little bit of enjoyment when we want to relax.

We already have several legal drugs, alcohol, nicotine, caffine, so there is precedent, and most of these were legal prior to their regulation in the early 20th century.

Aggressive pursuit of eliminating drug use has resulted in increased crime, transfer of our money to said criminals, increased police power, lack of respect for the law, and basically zero elimination of drug use.

its time to try something different.

I agree we need to try something different. But turning this country into a nation of zombies isnt really what I would call a good change.
I proposed something different, and something with a proven record of eliminating drug addiction.

Yessssss, just like how when prohibition ended, we turned the country into a bunch or worthless, jobless alcoholics.

Well.....worthless, anyhow.....

*
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2RloNSp8tc]YouTube - ‪GOP House Leader A Lazy Drunk?‬‏[/ame]​

 

[Mr. Shaman]

I can't even smoke a cigarette in a park or a bar and you want to legalize drugs?

You can smoke, at home.....the same option Pot-smokers are asking.​

 

[Gadawg73]

Utter bullshit.

Well tell us your experience there Moe. I have 30 years working criminal cases in the courts, seeing the families of drug users and dealers, seeing the prisons fill up with over 50% for minor drug sales and over 50% of court time used for petty drug cases.
All mandated by mandatory sentencing and legislation which law enforcement, prosecutors and judges do not like.
Most local law enforcement believes drug laws are a waste of their time. Bankruptcy fraud is rarely investigated by the FBI because of mandatory drug legislation. Same with security issues that take a back seat because of man power on drug cases.
You have been watching too many Kojak re-runs. Get with the real world and facts.
And how about the Atlanta case where the APD faked the warrants, knocked down the door of an elderly woman at the wrong house in a drug raid and killed her.
They they lied on the reports to cover it all up. They got caught.
Goes on all the time.
Tell us your experience in this. I am all ears.

How many robberies, rapes, and murders have involved drugs? The answer is virtually all of them. Why you would want to introduce more drugs to increase more violent crime is known only to you. No rational person would suggest it.

"all of them"
"introduce more drugs"
Rabbi, drugs are under NO control now. You could add 500,000 more officers and it would do NOTHING to stop it.
DEMAND IS THE PROBLEM.
Alcohol and prescription drugs are the major problem. Last year CDC stated that 70% of all drug overdoses in America were prescription drugs.
Put the law enforcement $$$ in EDUCATION AND TREATMENT.
Same with alcohol and tobacco.
Tobacco use which KILLS more Americans every year than anything has declined for 40 years in a row.
Guess why. Education is where the $$ has gone.
I want to stop drug use and prohibition is the worst way there is. Ask law enforcement. They will tell you they get maybe 2% now and they could add half a million agents and maybe get 3%.
Snorting Drano is bad for you Rabbi. How does a police officer stop you from doing that?

 

[The Rabbi]

Teenagers start smoking every day. Do you think there is a person in America who does not think smoking is bad for them? Why do you suppose "educating" people about drugs will create a different result?

 

[Gadawg73]

I agree we need to try something different. But turning this country into a nation of zombies isnt really what I would call a good change.
I proposed something different, and something with a proven record of eliminating drug addiction.

If drugs were legal would you become a zombie?

No, right?

But you imagine that others who currently do not take drugs would?

Why?

As a matter of fact I probably would.
But that's besides the point. Drugs are illegal and people already turn themselves into zombies. How will legalizing them stop any of that?

"How will legalizing them stop any of that?"
Good ? and that is what we start with. Legalizing them will immediately end 95% of the criminal element selling the illegal drugs and the extreme violence that goes with that. Remember alcohol and Al Capone. If alcohol was illegal now the same scenario and worse would be the result. How many gangs sell Jack Daniels on the black market now and kill any competition?
Drug prohibiton costs every American about $500 a year now for enforcement, court time, prison costs and social programs for the families of those incarcerated.
Currently we spend $45,000 a year for each offender in prison on average and another $30,000 a year in social programs and the administrative costs to run them for the families of those incarcerated.
$75K a year per offender and over 50% of those incarcerated are for a handfull of drugs.
Anyone that favors this system has to already be on dope.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Law are not made on the basis of individuals. I can safely drive a car at 90mph. That doesnt mean speed limits shouldn't apply to me.
Legalizing drugs will incresae their use. Does anyone argue this is a good thing?
You dont like executing criminals? Sorry for you.

I dont mind executing murderers, or even rapists. executing someone for possessing or smoking a plant is extreme.

Speed limits are based on the physical limits of a car to ride on a road of a given slope, width and material. That has nothing to do with laws against substances people dont like.

A small increase in drug use, with reference to pot, is in my opinion worth the benefits we get in regulating it, taxing it, and decriminalizing it. The police could concentrate more on the more dangerous drugs and other crimes. The states would get another source of revenue.

Most violent crimes involve drugs.

Yeah.....the various forms o'....

Alcohol!!!!

(You don't do much research, before shootin'-off your mouth, do you? )​

 

[Gadawg73]

Teenagers start smoking every day. Do you think there is a person in America who does not think smoking is bad for them? Why do you suppose "educating" people about drugs will create a different result?

So you are advocating sending The Board of Directors of RJ Reynolds to prisonfor 10 years mandatory will stop teenagers from smoking. Great idea Rabbi.
Open your damn eyes and KNOW that DEMAND is the problem.
What law will stop teenagers from smoking?
Far, far less teenagers smoked than when I was in high school. We had a smokers area for those over 16 to smoke were I went to high school!

 

[Mr. Shaman]

First off, cannabis isn't addictive. Studies have been done on this many times by respected medical bodies.

Second off, if cannabis were made legal tomorrow, the increase in cannabis smoking would NOT appreciably grow. It would bump up a little, but would stay pretty much the same.

....The exact same thing that happened, after alcohol Prohibition was deep-sixed.​

 

[Harry Dresden]

They say Elvis is still alive too.
Is there a point you are trying to make here?

you were saying?

BEcause some fool says something does not make it a valid argument. The comparison to guns is odious simply because it is so wrong. It is a red herring because no one can deny the obvious: drugs cause violent anti social behavior. So legalizing them will increase the number of drugs and drug users, thereby increasing violence and anti social behavior.
No one has refuted any of that.

...after seeing your posts......you can say that again.....

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Most violent crimes involve drugs. Get rid of drugs, get rid of lots of crime.
Pretty simple, really.

Kind of like get rid of guns get rid of crime?

Both statements are equally false.

Do people lose their judgment when they hold a gun in their hands? I never saw it.

Yeah....right.....especially with John Wayne fans, right???

*

What Teabagger HASN'T......

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgcVLOe9qFM]YouTube - ‪Robert De Niro in front of the mirror‬‏[/ame]

?????​

 

[Mr. Shaman]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQp33TIlsYQ]YouTube - ‪Grass, A Marijuana History Narrated by Woody Harrelson.Pt1‬‏[/ame]​