It is time for a UBI to a minimum for all of our people

[SweetSue92]

It is time for a UBI that allows for a basement/minimum standard of living for all of our people. No one should be hungry and no one should be forced to live on the street based on their ability to work. I believe this is the ethical and moral thing to do as an society and it is what Jesus. I know people that can't work because they're sick, on oxygen or any number of reasons and it is pure cruelty to expect work. It is wage slavery! It probably one of the cruest things that too many expect out of people that simply can't.

Laws should also be placed on production and rent to make sure that the producers and suppliers can't attempt to put people on the street or make food far too costly to eat. We should make damn sure this minimum is held and set at the avg for any given area to assure rent + food.

I'll go as far as to suggest if one wants to live very poorly then they can live that way and follow their hobbies. Society shouldn't be against such people. Maybe such people could invent something and become rich? That rich person then would pay taxes and pay it back. Maybe such people could instead get a better education and choose one day to get a higher paying job? Paying more taxes and paying it back! Maybe such people would have a higher quality of life without stress and that is an ethical right position.

I read the Bible daily. I have read plenty of passages where Jesus says to give to charity. I have NEVER read a passage that says to outsource this to The State, nor one that says healthy, able-bodied people should be lazy.

 

[Rust_Cohle]

Exactly, we could tax the corporation that get all the resources to fund the little guy. A cycle that could work. I disagree that anyone needs to work. It should be a choice but not forced.

And you think those corporations will just stay here and allow themselves to be taxed astronomically when they can just move somewhere else?

 

[SweetSue92]

And you think those corporations will just stay here and allow themselves to be taxed astronomically when they can just move somewhere else?

All their dreams seem wonderful in the dorm rooms.

 

[MisterBeale]

All their dreams seem wonderful in the dorm rooms.

 

[Stryder50]

For the destitute that are too sick to work, too disabled, and have no long term prospects of getting better, the social security administration has programs to make sure they will not live on the streets.

For any other able bodied person in our society, no, what you are suggesting is still folly.

This type of drivel, shows a fundamental lack of understanding of basic economic principles, i.e., supply and demand. The only way this will work, is if we have a fully automated work force.

It may, in the future, be possible, to have some sort of subsistence level UBI, when robots take over jobs, like mass shipping, logging, mining, carpentry, and a whole host of other jobs, that will put masses, I mean hundreds of thousands, even millions, of technical skilled workers out of a jobs. I am even reading now, that highly skilled, degreed jobs, and artistic jobs, are starting to be done by AI.

At this point, we may indeed, need some strategy, or way, to feed, house and cloth, all these masses of workers affected by economic dislocations, where no more gainful employment is available. For what types of gainful employment would be available, if all trade jobs are being done by robots, and all highly technical and skilled work is done by AI?



But that time? Seems to be, still, some time off yet. A decade?

Robots Could Relieve Skilled Tradespersons From Repetitive Work​

". . . Statistics show that 54% of construction contractors have trouble finding enough skilled workers. Relatedly, 81% of respondents said the skilled tradespeople they do have must take on more work to accommodate the lack.

Robots could play an instrumental role in handling the tasks that could make skilled workers more prone to fatigue and injuries. Jim Page is a veteran of the heating, ventilation, and air conditioning (HVAC) industry who currently trains apprentices. He gave an example of how robots could help with welding.

“In the shop production side, if it takes three welders to get it done and part of the process being done by two of those welders is a repetitive process, that process could be put into a jig and could be performed by a robot.” However, that doesn’t take humans out of the picture.. . "

How Do Robotics Affect Skilled Trade Jobs? | RoboticsTomorrow

With more companies bringing robotics and automation into their facilities, many people understandably wonder if machines will eventually replace their jobs.

www.roboticstomorrow.com

And yet? Once the OTR semis do become truly able to be driver-less? This is something we may have to grapple with.

Research Summary. The trucking industry is vital to the U.S.’s economy, as just about every necessity and convenience depend on this industry in some form or another. Here are some statistics about the truck driving industry:

• Trucks move about 72.5% of America’s freight by weight.
• The trucking industry earned $875.5 billion in revenue in 2021.
• There are about 3.5 million employed truck drivers in the U.S. as of 2021.
• There are 1,102,799 for-hire trucking carriers in the U.S.
• U.S. trucks moved 10.93 billion tons of freight in 2021.
• There are 4.06 million semi-trucks operating in the U.S. as of 2021.

23+ Trucking Industry Statistics [2023]: Surprising Facts On American Trucking - Zippia

The trucking industry is vital to the U.S.’s economy, as just about every necessity and convenience depend on this industry in some form or another.

www.zippia.com

Self-Driving Trucks: Are Truck Drivers Out of a Job? | ATBS

When it comes to self-driving trucks, the main thing on truck drivers’ minds is the security of their jobs. Let’s take a closer look at self-driving trucks.

www.atbs.com

View attachment 771739

So. . . not too long to figure something out? Will other fields open up for low skilled workers? We can be sure, AI and robotics are not going to just affect the nearly four million transport workers, big shifts are coming . . . . . Bigger than we saw in the 80's and 90's, with industrial production automation, and shifts to service work, this we can be assured.

Thing is, the trucks need to be loaded and unloaded. Securing the load is part of the driver's job.

In the case of flatbed loads, they need to be strapped or chained properly so as not to fall off. That is the driver's responsibility. The driver also has input on placement of the load components, such as needed to spread load over the tires/axles and allow for overhead clearance.

In the case of box van type loads, the driver is often the one whom may have too assure that the cartons, or pallets are properly secured, strapped in place.
Often there are trucks which are making LTL, Less than Trailer Load, in which there may be partial delivery, the more pickup and then more partial delivery. Sometimes it's pallets going in and out, other times it might be handtruck loads of cartons; especially when delivering to commercial/retail businesses.

As one whom spent a lot of time behind the wheel and especially in and out the back end with delivery and pickup, there's more to most truck driving than just rolling down the road.
But then, we have no shortage in this world of people whom have never done the work thinking they know how to do it better.

 

[Stryder50]

It is time for a UBI that allows for a basement/minimum standard of living for all of our people. No one should be hungry and no one should be forced to live on the street based on their ability to work. I believe this is the ethical and moral thing to do as an society and it is what Jesus. I know people that can't work because they're sick, on oxygen or any number of reasons and it is pure cruelty to expect work. It is wage slavery! It probably one of the cruest things that too many expect out of people that simply can't.

Laws should also be placed on production and rent to make sure that the producers and suppliers can't attempt to put people on the street or make food far too costly to eat. We should make damn sure this minimum is held and set at the avg for any given area to assure rent + food.

I'll go as far as to suggest if one wants to live very poorly then they can live that way and follow their hobbies. Society shouldn't be against such people. Maybe such people could invent something and become rich? That rich person then would pay taxes and pay it back. Maybe such people could instead get a better education and choose one day to get a higher paying job? Paying more taxes and paying it back! Maybe such people would have a higher quality of life without stress and that is an ethical right position.

Well "cupcake", it's fairly clear you have never really worked in your life. Never got dirt under the fingernails, or had a sore back as the end of the day/
It's obvious you've never planted a crop, weeded same, got down and picked during harvest, likely wouldn't know how to tell if the fruit, berry, etc. is ready(ripe) to pick, nor have a clue on how to sort and/or package. And that's just a rough outline of some of the parts of agriculture, getting the food you find clean and wrapped in the grocery store.

There's also a similar range involved with raising livestock and bringing it to market.

There's other sorts of work it will be some time before "robots" can do as good as humans.
Ever tried your hand as a lumberjack? Cruise a hillside cutting down trees and then getting them out of the brush, loaded, and on their way to a mill?
Or worked in mining?
Or done some factory assembling?
Or read blueprints to know how to measure, cut, and hammer a house together?

It's clear you are a soft worm whom has never worked enough to carry your own load in society. Just another useless parasite we could do with out.

 

[MisterBeale]

Thing is, the trucks need to be loaded and unloaded. Securing the load is part of the driver's job.

In the case of flatbed loads, they need to be strapped or chained properly so as not to fall off. That is the driver's responsibility. The driver also has input on placement of the load components, such as needed to spread load over the tires/axles and allow for overhead clearance.

In the case of box van type loads, the driver is often the one whom may have too assure that the cartons, or pallets are properly secured, strapped in place.
Often there are trucks which are making LTL, Less than Trailer Load, in which there may be partial delivery, the more pickup and then more partial delivery. Sometimes it's pallets going in and out, other times it might be handtruck loads of cartons; especially when delivering to commercial/retail businesses.

As one whom spent a lot of time behind the wheel and especially in and out the back end with delivery and pickup, there's more to most truck driving than just rolling down the road.
But then, we have no shortage in this world of people whom have never done the work thinking they know how to do it better.

I had a long talk about this topic last Christmas with my cousin, who is a trucker. He told me a lot about the information you have conveyed, and the different types of OTR drivers, independents, those who work for companies, versus those who are independent, those who work just in state, versus those who work national or international.

I definitely have given this POV a lot of thought.

I don't imagine it will be quick, nor easy.

The issue of how they are going to redesign the shipping of OTR freight, to do away with drivers, or reduce the need for as many of them, sort of reminds me of how we went from overseas shipping in wooden ships, steam ships, and freighters. All of that, affected greatly, how OTR shipping and train transport was done as well.

I imagine, many things will change when robots and AI, along with a complete integration of the smart grid take over. . .
(This is one of the reasons 5G was necessary, w/o it, AI and robotics could not compute the data quick enough.)

This is a pre-20th century cargo ship.

This is a wooden, cargo steam ship they used during WWI, we can see the cranes developed on the sides, for shipping crates. . . already. I'd be curious to see if the trucking in the 19teens and 1920's was already starting to evolve to handle the shipping crates from this ship. . .

Who knows if they will modify shipping containers for the new automated trucks, to make the loading and unloading for the robots easier?

I do know, that they put a lot of sensor chips in a lot of products and packaging, but I am not an engineer, I can't say how it will all work, but I am not ready to discount everything I have read from this billionaires and say no, all this work they have been doing, is not going to change how the infrastructure works. If it saves the folks that own everything money? It will happen, it has before.

I understand the skepticism of someone that works in the industry not believing it could be completely transformed. But I hear the rhetoric from oligarchs and politicians for their plans to do it. . .

 

[Fueri]

We could limit robotics for mass producing food and basic goods to allow for the minimum. We could of course maintain a standard that allows for work for people outside of these areas. why would one want to flip burgers? Scan or sort crap??? The jobs can be focusing on things that matter.

Because it puts food on the table.

Don't like those jobs? Prove yourself and move up or move on. There's a reason those are called entry level jobs.

Neither the world, nor anyone in it, owes you a damn thing. You get what you earn and are willing to work for. Until you realize that you're screwed.

 

[frigidweirdo]

It is time for a UBI that allows for a basement/minimum standard of living for all of our people. No one should be hungry and no one should be forced to live on the street based on their ability to work. I believe this is the ethical and moral thing to do as an society and it is what Jesus. I know people that can't work because they're sick, on oxygen or any number of reasons and it is pure cruelty to expect work. It is wage slavery! It probably one of the cruest things that too many expect out of people that simply can't.

Laws should also be placed on production and rent to make sure that the producers and suppliers can't attempt to put people on the street or make food far too costly to eat. We should make damn sure this minimum is held and set at the avg for any given area to assure rent + food.

I'll go as far as to suggest if one wants to live very poorly then they can live that way and follow their hobbies. Society shouldn't be against such people. Maybe such people could invent something and become rich? That rich person then would pay taxes and pay it back. Maybe such people could instead get a better education and choose one day to get a higher paying job? Paying more taxes and paying it back! Maybe such people would have a higher quality of life without stress and that is an ethical right position.

And what incentive will people have for working?

 

[jotathought]

• Lets make wage slavery just to eat and to live with any standards or self respect a thing of the past
  The goal is to 1. Set up basic needs like food, housing and goods to be done by a.i and robotics(as in supply), and 2. a basic income to control demand. We need to head towards a star trek like future where no one has to work to eat and enjoy their life. They can focus on their own happiness.
  

Who pays for it?

 

[Meister]

Easy solution! Just pretend you are an illegal alien and you'll get all the resources you need.

Just tell the government that you identify as an illegal, that should be sufficient.

 

[Meister]

Because it puts food on the table.

Don't like those jobs? Prove yourself and move up or move on. There's a reason those are called entry level jobs.

Neither the world, nor anyone in it, owes you a damn thing. You get what you earn and are willing to work for. Until you realize that you're screwed.

He doesn't understand that we all have guaranteed equal rights, he also doesn't understand
that does not equate to a guaranteed equal outcome.

He might want to think of it as a 400 meter track event. All the participants are at the same starting line when the gun goes off.
At the finish line, not all end up with the same time.

 

[Papageorgio]

It is time for a UBI that allows for a basement/minimum standard of living for all of our people. No one should be hungry and no one should be forced to live on the street based on their ability to work. I believe this is the ethical and moral thing to do as an society and it is what Jesus. I know people that can't work because they're sick, on oxygen or any number of reasons and it is pure cruelty to expect work. It is wage slavery! It probably one of the cruest things that too many expect out of people that simply can't.

Laws should also be placed on production and rent to make sure that the producers and suppliers can't attempt to put people on the street or make food far too costly to eat. We should make damn sure this minimum is held and set at the avg for any given area to assure rent + food.

I'll go as far as to suggest if one wants to live very poorly then they can live that way and follow their hobbies. Society shouldn't be against such people. Maybe such people could invent something and become rich? That rich person then would pay taxes and pay it back. Maybe such people could instead get a better education and choose one day to get a higher paying job? Paying more taxes and paying it back! Maybe such people would have a higher quality of life without stress and that is an ethical right position.

So how much would I get? I want to quit work and travel, would the government get me a nice RV to travel and pay my fuel?

 

[odanny]

So you think the people that do work should pay for all you people who don't?

OMG, this coming from someone who doesn't work and relies on the government to pay his bills.

No surprise this is lost on you. Most things are.

 

[Rust_Cohle]

OMG, this coming from someone who doesn't work and relies on the government to pay his bills.

No surprise this is lost on you. Most things are.

Unlike you I retired, you're still pretend you served which we all know is a lie

Attn: Veterans

U.S. Army 1985-1992 68FX1 (aircraft mechanic, the X-ray one indicates I worked on the AH-64) Stationed at Schofield Barracks and Ft. Carson. Deployed to Korea, Thailand and Japan. X code indicates a cadet or recruit who didn't finish AIT in the 80s...

www.usmessageboard.com

Show us your plate McFib don't see anything that says veteran on it

 

[Stryder50]

I had a long talk about this topic last Christmas with my cousin, who is a trucker. He told me a lot about the information you have conveyed, and the different types of OTR drivers, independents, those who work for companies, versus those who are independent, those who work just in state, versus those who work national or international.

I definitely have given this POV a lot of thought.

I don't imagine it will be quick, nor easy.

The issue of how they are going to redesign the shipping of OTR freight, to do away with drivers, or reduce the need for as many of them, sort of reminds me of how we went from overseas shipping in wooden ships, steam ships, and freighters. All of that, affected greatly, how OTR shipping and train transport was done as well.

I imagine, many things will change when robots and AI, along with a complete integration of the smart grid take over. . .
(This is one of the reasons 5G was necessary, w/o it, AI and robotics could not compute the data quick enough.)

This is a pre-20th century cargo ship.

This is a wooden, cargo steam ship they used during WWI, we can see the cranes developed on the sides, for shipping crates. . . already. I'd be curious to see if the trucking in the 19teens and 1920's was already starting to evolve to handle the shipping crates from this ship. . .

Who knows if they will modify shipping containers for the new automated trucks, to make the loading and unloading for the robots easier?

I do know, that they put a lot of sensor chips in a lot of products and packaging, but I am not an engineer, I can't say how it will all work, but I am not ready to discount everything I have read from this billionaires and say no, all this work they have been doing, is not going to change how the infrastructure works. If it saves the folks that own everything money? It will happen, it has before.

I understand the skepticism of someone that works in the industry not believing it could be completely transformed. But I hear the rhetoric from oligarchs and politicians for their plans to do it. . .

OTR and containers are only one facet of the transportation and distribution industries~systems. There are limits to the efficiency and effectiveness using AI there, but it becomes more problematic in the other facets.

It looks difficult to impossible that AI could handle the double tanker trailer rig that delivers gasoline to a few service stations each trip. Or the double tanker that makes runs twice a day to a few dairies and back to the processing facility.

Most of my truck driving was in smaller solos with a 20-30 box on the back. Some was with refrigerated boxes and meant running handtruck stacks of cartons in the back door of restaurants and delis. Other jobs I had involved dry goods, such as totes to pharmacies or cartons of books to a bookstore, etc. Then there was the stint doing furniture delivery and pickup, for a rent business and then a retail sales outlet.

AI will handle some of the functions of the big branch~"vein" flow, but as that forks out into smaller and more diverse directions and loads, we'll still be looking at humans for some time to handle that.

 

[Fueri]

He doesn't understand that we all have guaranteed equal rights, he also doesn't understand
that does not equate to a guaranteed equal outcome.

He might want to think of it as a 400 meter track event. All the participants are at the same starting line when the gun goes off.
At the finish line, not all end up with the same time.

And if those that want to run have to carry rhose that don't everyone has a poorer result.

 

[miketx]

It is time for a UBI that allows for a basement/minimum standard of living for all of our people. No one should be hungry and no one should be forced to live on the street based on their ability to work. I believe this is the ethical and moral thing to do as an society and it is what Jesus. I know people that can't work because they're sick, on oxygen or any number of reasons and it is pure cruelty to expect work. It is wage slavery! It probably one of the cruest things that too many expect out of people that simply can't.

Laws should also be placed on production and rent to make sure that the producers and suppliers can't attempt to put people on the street or make food far too costly to eat. We should make damn sure this minimum is held and set at the avg for any given area to assure rent + food.

I'll go as far as to suggest if one wants to live very poorly then they can live that way and follow their hobbies. Society shouldn't be against such people. Maybe such people could invent something and become rich? That rich person then would pay taxes and pay it back. Maybe such people could instead get a better education and choose one day to get a higher paying job? Paying more taxes and paying it back! Maybe such people would have a higher quality of life without stress and that is an ethical right position.

Get job communist.

 

[miketx]

Yep, you want everyone to slave like a ****** for their betters until they drop dead. What a sad concept of life.

You vermin just can't help lying can you? You got no idea what he wants.

 

[Lord Long Rod]

It is time for a UBI that allows for a basement/minimum standard of living for all of our people. No one should be hungry and no one should be forced to live on the street based on their ability to work. I believe this is the ethical and moral thing to do as an society and it is what Jesus. I know people that can't work because they're sick, on oxygen or any number of reasons and it is pure cruelty to expect work. It is wage slavery! It probably one of the cruest things that too many expect out of people that simply can't.

Laws should also be placed on production and rent to make sure that the producers and suppliers can't attempt to put people on the street or make food far too costly to eat. We should make damn sure this minimum is held and set at the avg for any given area to assure rent + food.

I'll go as far as to suggest if one wants to live very poorly then they can live that way and follow their hobbies. Society shouldn't be against such people. Maybe such people could invent something and become rich? That rich person then would pay taxes and pay it back. Maybe such people could instead get a better education and choose one day to get a higher paying job? Paying more taxes and paying it back! Maybe such people would have a higher quality of life without stress and that is an ethical right position.

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