Issue 1 in Ohio

[NotfooledbyW]

Emotional answer! It takes two to tango and you put all the onus on the man!

Not emotional at all. You are stuck.

You have no reason to put your nose up some woman’s uterus for her to gestate a fetus full-term when you find one there because it has absolutely no effect on your personal life, liberty and pursuit of happiness. You shall make no laws interfering with what a woman wants to do with her own body involving a medical procedure that can prevent her from harm.

You have no harm and need not be involved in this matter

 

[Frankenstein]

It is why I don't think zygote are sacred.

But acorns man, you think they should be protected!

 

[Frankenstein]

Just playing to the audience stinky.
And let's face it, you ain't the brightest bulb on any tree are you?

Just the brightest on a tree you might be on spanky!

 

[Frankenstein]

Not emotional at all. You are stuck.

You have no reason to put your nose up some woman’s uterus for her to gestate a fetus full-term when you find one there because it has absolutely no effect on your personal life, liberty and pursuit of happiness. You shall make no laws interfering with what a woman wants to do with her own body involving a medical procedure that can prevent her from harm.

You have no harm and need not be involved in this matter

LISTEN CLOSELY IDIOT, IT IS NOT JUST HER BODY, AND IF YOU WANT TO GO THERE, THE CHILD MAY HAVE MORE DNA TRAITS FROM THE FATHER, NOBODY FORCED HER TO HAVE SEX! YET SHE IS THE ARBITER OF LIFE AND DEATH? HARD PASS IF SHE WASN'T INTELLIGENT ENOUGH TO NO PUT HERSELF IN THIS POSITION i DO NOT WANT HER MAKING THE FINAL DECISION ON LIFE AND DEATH. SHE MADE THE BABY MAKER AVAILABLE KNOWING FULL WELL THE RISKS

 

[Dadoalex]

Just the brightest on a tree you might be on spanky!

Sorry bottomlicker, I'm not on any trees.
I'm not nuts.
Which means I'm not a MAGAT.
Check your acorns with the other clowns in your car.

 

[hadit]

Who objected to it? The law was passed with unanimous consent in 2002.

The latest version of the Born Alive Abortion Survivors Act was proposed in 2021. It faced extreme hostility from the democrats.

 

[BlindBoo]

The latest version of the Born Alive Abortion Survivors Act was proposed in 2021. It faced extreme hostility from the democrats.

"This is not a new bill or tactic. Anti-abortion members have introduced this and similar disingenuous legislation every Congress for nearly a decade."

FACT CHECK: So-Called “Born Alive” is Another Lie To Stigmatize Abortion

Get the latest news and developments in Planned Parenthood's efforts as they work to provide quality women's health care and sex education in the U.S.

www.plannedparenthood.org

?This bill is deliberately misleading and offensive to pregnant people and the doctors and nurses who provide their care. It is yet another attempt by anti-abortion politicians to spread misinformation as a means to their warped political end: to ban safe and legal abortion.

“Let’s be clear: Doctors are already required to provide appropriate medical care by law. This is not how medical care works. It’s wrong, irresponsible, and dangerous to suggest otherwise"

 

[hadit]

"This is not a new bill or tactic. Anti-abortion members have introduced this and similar disingenuous legislation every Congress for nearly a decade."

FACT CHECK: So-Called “Born Alive” is Another Lie To Stigmatize Abortion

Get the latest news and developments in Planned Parenthood's efforts as they work to provide quality women's health care and sex education in the U.S.

www.plannedparenthood.org

?This bill is deliberately misleading and offensive to pregnant people and the doctors and nurses who provide their care. It is yet another attempt by anti-abortion politicians to spread misinformation as a means to their warped political end: to ban safe and legal abortion.

“Let’s be clear: Doctors are already required to provide appropriate medical care by law. This is not how medical care works. It’s wrong, irresponsible, and dangerous to suggest otherwise"

I do not accept PP as an unbiased source for an opinion on the bill.

 

[BlindBoo]

I do not accept PP as an unbiased source for an opinion on the bill.

Of course they are but who cares? You can't dispute the fact that it's SOP for the Anti-Choice crowd. It's in the congressional record. They introduce similarly worded bills all the time to try and embarrass the Democrats. Democrats always have to remind them of the law that was so bipartisan that it passed unanimously in a voice vote in each chamber.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

No, they did not clamp the cord first.

“With the first breaths of air, the lungs start to expand and the ductus arteriosus and the foramen ovale both close. The baby's circulation and blood flow through the heart now function like an adult's. “

•

While still in the uterus, the baby's lungs aren't being used. The baby’s liver isn't fully developed. Circulating blood bypasses the lungs and liver by flowing in different pathways and through special openings called shunts.

•

Blood flow in the unborn baby follows this pathway:

• Oxygen and nutrients from the mother's blood are transferred across the placenta to the fetus through the umbilical cord.
• This enriched blood flows through the umbilical vein toward the baby’s liver. There it moves through a shunt called the ductus venosus.
• This allows some of the blood to go to the liver. But most of this highly oxygenated blood flows to a large vessel called the inferior vena cava and then into the right atrium of the heart.

Here is what happens inside the fetal heart:

• When oxygenated blood from the mother enters the right side of the heart, it flows into the upper chamber (the right atrium). Most of the blood flows across to the left atrium through a shunt called the foramen ovale.
• From the left atrium, blood moves down into the lower chamber of the heart (the left ventricle). It's then pumped into the first part of the large artery coming from the heart (the ascending aorta).
• From the aorta, the oxygen-rich blood is sent to the brain and to the heart muscle itself. Blood is also sent to the lower body.
• Blood returning to the heart from the fetal body contains carbon dioxide and waste products as it enters the right atrium. It flows down into the right ventricle, where it normally would be sent to the lungs to be oxygenated. Instead, it bypasses the lungs and flows through the ductus arteriosus into the descending aorta, which connects to the umbilical arteries. From there, blood flows back into the placenta. There the carbon dioxide and waste products are released into the mother's circulatory system. Oxygen and nutrients from the mother's blood are transferred across the placenta. Then the cycle starts again.
• At birth, major changes take place. The umbilical cord is clamped and the baby no longer receives oxygen and nutrients from the mother. With the first breaths of air, the lungs start to expand and the ductus arteriosus and the foramen ovale both close. The baby's circulation and blood flow through the heart now function like an adult's.

Fig. 1
A schematic of both the fetal and newborn/adult circulations, showing the anatomical relationships, and connections (in the fetus), between the pulmonary and systemic circulations. Before birth, the majority of venous return to the left heart is derived from the placenta, which passes through the ductus venosus and foramen ovale, because pulmonary blood flow is low. After birth, following clamping of the umbilical cord, the supply of preload for the left heart switches from the placenta to the pulmonary circulation

 

[Lesh]

Then why the objection to a law protecting babies who survive an attempt to kill them and are born alive?

1. According to the usual suspects, they're fully human and persons at the moment they are born and that means they have the same rights as a baby born to someone who doesn't want to kill them.
2. Any baby that is born is immediately given any lifesaving treatment should it be required. A doctor or nurse who didn't, for example, unwrap an umbilical cord that was choking a newborn would be prosecuted, so why NOT protect these most vulnerable humans who survive an attempt to kill them in the womb? What makes them less of a person?

Who's insane again?

I object to draconian Gilead style anti-abortion laws and most voters do as well.

The insanity had to do with your insane ridiculous claims that I quoted

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Yes on Issue 1

The mission of Ohio Right to Life is to promote and defend the right to life of all innocent human beings, from the time of fertilization until natural death.

www.ohiolife.org

Since Roe vs Wade has been overturned, the Left has begun an all-out assault to recodify abortion back into the law of states that opted out, like Ohio. In Ohio, they are now trying to add abortion to the state Constitution via a direct vote to circumvent lawmakers who restrict abortion. Voting no on issue one would allow a simple majority to add abortion to the Ohio Constitution. But as we all know, the Left will not be honest about advertising it, since they own the media. They will sell it as a return to Roe vs. Wade, but that would be a lie. The proposed amendment would do much more than that as I will explain later. However, voting yes would require more than just a simple majority to change the Constitution.

The Amendment has already been written and will not only allow abortion on demand, but it does away with the Roe vs Wade mandate that abortions not occur on viable infants. That means abortions up to the partial birth abortion. Anything goes now.

But it does not end there. It would also allow children to have abortions without their parents' consent.

But it doesn't even end there. It would also allow children to begin to transition into another sex without their parents' notification or approval.

Imagine your child making the most difficult decisions of their lives that will alter their lives forever, without they help of their parents.

Parental rights would become nonexistent with the proposed Constitutional amendment, but again, it is not being advertised this way.

In fact, why even have parents since the state can only be trusted with the welfare of children and not the parents? After all, we see what a swell job the state does with children in foster care.

No, parents need to be targeted because they cannot be trusted. America really is that bad, all of them.

Isn't that right democrats?

Voting is on August 8th.

‘By Tuesday morning, LaRose, who was the most visible face of Issue 1, might have been worried. Before noon, he ducked a meeting with reporters. That afternoon, he was attacked by an Arizona Republican who came to Ohio to campaign for Issue 1. That evening, after the blowout became apparent, he skipped a press conference and the official speaking in his place pointed blame at his fellow Republicans.

At 11:23 p.m., LaRose broke his silence by issuing a statement. It was angry, misleading, and hardly a concession that voters disliked his proposal, which they defeated by a 14-point margin. Making the loss even more bitter, some counties that had voted for Donald Trump in 2020 joined the chorus in voting “no” on Issue 1.

LaRose had been on a path to Tuesday’s defeat at least since November 2022, when he and Rep. Brian Stewart, R-Ashville, proposed raising the threshold to pass citizen-initiated amendments from 50% of the vote to 60% of the vote.’

Frank LaRose's very bad day. Sec. of State dodged press, issued angry statement as Issue 1 failed - Ohio Capital Journal

By Tuesday morning, Ohio Secretary of State Frank LaRose, who was the most visible face of Issue 1, might have been worried. Before noon, he ducked a meeting with reporters. That afternoon, he was attacked by an Arizona Republican who came to Ohio to campaign for Issue 1. That evening, after the...

ohiocapitaljournal.com

More unwarranted anger from Republicans the consequence of their contempt for the will of the majority of the people.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

More unwarranted anger from Republicans the consequence of their contempt for the will of the majority of the people.

This is union between church and state to make laws that deprive human beings of their freedom of conscience.

For Churches​

The local church is a chosen instrument of the Lord to bring light into the midst of darkness and influence society with principles of the kingdom of God. We can be thankful for those who went before us and worked to abolish slavery. We can be thankful for those who have, and are working to address issues such as poverty, racial division, and the sexual exploitation of vulnerable people. One critical issue that demands increasing action by the local church is defending the sanctity of human life. In Genesis 1:27 we read, “And God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.” (NASB) This verse clearly establishes the value of all human life under the sovereignty of God. Although the value of human life from conception to natural death can be logically defended by secular arguments, the church stands upon the higher authority of scripture. In Psalm 139:13-17 we read, “For you created my inmost being, you knit me together in my mother’s womb. I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well.” These verses, among many others, make it clear that God determines the value of each life, and that the value of each life begins at conception. Physical birth simply allows us to see and hold the one whom God already knows and values.

Although there are many well-organized and dedicated organizations working to defend the rights of the unborn and promote a culture of life, it is the church that should be leading the way in fulfilling this responsibility. It is the church that can reach millions of people with a biblically-based view of life, reach out with the reconciling love of Jesus Christ to those in need and raise up people to serve as volunteers for life-affirming ministries, like pregnancy resource centers. Amazing things can and will happen as more churches rise to the occasion. The need is great, but our God is calling every local church to meet the need. The role of each local church will be different, but a collective awakening to the great opportunity before us will have far reaching impact!

For Churches | Ohio Right to Life

The local church is a chosen instrument of the Lord to bring light into the midst of darkness and influence…

ohiolife.org

To learn how to connect your church’s heart for life with what Ohio Right to Life is doing to protect the most vulnerable, contact Mary Parker at 614-547-0099, ext. 303 or [email protected].

 

[Frankenstein]

Of course they are but who cares? You can't dispute the fact that it's SOP for the Anti-Choice crowd. It's in the congressional record. They introduce similarly worded bills all the time to try and embarrass the Democrats. Democrats always have to remind them of the law that was so bipartisan that it passed unanimously in a voice vote in each chamber.

Nonsense, abortion, and selling the body part of butchered babies in the womb is big business. I am not anti choice, choose not to get pregnant, why do you gloss over the fact that they have a choice to do that!

 

[Frankenstein]

“With the first breaths of air, the lungs start to expand and the ductus arteriosus and the foramen ovale both close. The baby's circulation and blood flow through the heart now function like an adult's. “

•

While still in the uterus, the baby's lungs aren't being used. The baby’s liver isn't fully developed. Circulating blood bypasses the lungs and liver by flowing in different pathways and through special openings called shunts.

•

Blood flow in the unborn baby follows this pathway:

• Oxygen and nutrients from the mother's blood are transferred across the placenta to the fetus through the umbilical cord.
• This enriched blood flows through the umbilical vein toward the baby’s liver. There it moves through a shunt called the ductus venosus.
• This allows some of the blood to go to the liver. But most of this highly oxygenated blood flows to a large vessel called the inferior vena cava and then into the right atrium of the heart.

Here is what happens inside the fetal heart:

• When oxygenated blood from the mother enters the right side of the heart, it flows into the upper chamber (the right atrium). Most of the blood flows across to the left atrium through a shunt called the foramen ovale.
• From the left atrium, blood moves down into the lower chamber of the heart (the left ventricle). It's then pumped into the first part of the large artery coming from the heart (the ascending aorta).
• From the aorta, the oxygen-rich blood is sent to the brain and to the heart muscle itself. Blood is also sent to the lower body.
• Blood returning to the heart from the fetal body contains carbon dioxide and waste products as it enters the right atrium. It flows down into the right ventricle, where it normally would be sent to the lungs to be oxygenated. Instead, it bypasses the lungs and flows through the ductus arteriosus into the descending aorta, which connects to the umbilical arteries. From there, blood flows back into the placenta. There the carbon dioxide and waste products are released into the mother's circulatory system. Oxygen and nutrients from the mother's blood are transferred across the placenta. Then the cycle starts again.
• At birth, major changes take place. The umbilical cord is clamped and the baby no longer receives oxygen and nutrients from the mother. With the first breaths of air, the lungs start to expand and the ductus arteriosus and the foramen ovale both close. The baby's circulation and blood flow through the heart now function like an adult's.

View attachment 813547

Fig. 1
A schematic of both the fetal and newborn/adult circulations, showing the anatomical relationships, and connections (in the fetus), between the pulmonary and systemic circulations. Before birth, the majority of venous return to the left heart is derived from the placenta, which passes through the ductus venosus and foramen ovale, because pulmonary blood flow is low. After birth, following clamping of the umbilical cord, the supply of preload for the left heart switches from the placenta to the pulmonary circulation

Do you have a point besides the one on top of your head?

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Do you have a point besides the one on top of your head?

Jewish belief that God breathes a soul into a newborn at first breath which is when sanctity of human life begins in Judeo-Christianity is much more aligned with the science of biology and physiology than recent Catholic doctrine insisting that sanctity of life begins at conception.

Ethically as a rational theist I go with Jewish belief because Catholicism has no rational explanation for death to a fetus due to natural cause occurring in 20 percent give or take of all conceptions.

Not seeing God creating a person to have a relationship with, only to expect millions of them to experience death before coming close to having independent consciousness.

First breath makes most sense on a metaphysical plane if we human creatures are intended to have a conscientious relationship with our creator.

frnknstn.23.08.11 #735
nf.23.08.11 #736

 

[NotfooledbyW]

IT IS NOT JUST HER BODY,

Does your human being body have one or two brains functioning in some capacity to sustain your individual life?

 

[hadit]

I object to draconian Gilead style anti-abortion laws and most voters do as well.

Most voters also do not support unlimited abortions at any time for any reason.

The insanity had to do with your insane ridiculous claims that I quoted

The goal of an abortion is a dead baby. Otherwise, there would be no need to ensure he/she is dead before removal.

 

[Frankenstein]

Jewish belief that God breathes a soul into a newborn at first breath which is when sanctity of human life begins in Judeo-Christianity is much more aligned with the science of biology and physiology than recent Catholic doctrine insisting that sanctity of life begins at conception.

Ethically as a rational theist I go with Jewish belief because Catholicism has no rational explanation for death to a fetus due to natural cause occurring in 20 percent give or take of all conceptions.

Not seeing God creating a person to have a relationship with, only to expect millions of them to experience death before coming close to having independent consciousness.

First breath makes most sense on a metaphysical plane if we human creatures are intended to have a conscientious relationship with our creator.

frnknstn.23.08.11 #735
nf.23.08.11 #736

Wrong God says he knows you before he forms you in the womb!

 

[NotfooledbyW]

God breathes a soul into a newborn at first breath which is when sanctity of human life begins in Judeo-Christianity

Wrong God says he knows you before he forms you in the womb!

Yep, If you believe The Scriptures are the Word of God then God knew you before the first time you masterbated. He knew you before conception. He knew you before you were born.

He knew you knew you when he breathed your soul into your nostrils so from that time you could begin to know him pretty much up to the parents who took it from there.

Your passage is very compatible that life begins at first breath.

Catholics came up with “at conception” crap much later. St Thomas Aquinas was between conception and live birth.

​

Aristotle’s belief about the beginning of life, like many of his other opinions, greatly influenced philosophers and theologians for centuries to come.​

​

Quickening | The Embryo Project Encyclopedia​

​

Indeed, St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas both cite a point after conception, generally the point of quickening, as the moment at which the life in the wombbecomes human or ensouled.​

​

nf.23.08.11 #736
frnknstn.23.08.11 #739
nf.23.08.11 #740