Israel destroys el-Wafa hospital as staff evacuates all patients

[Kondor3]

It's tear gas.

Wake me up, when the Israelis start using Mustard Gas or Sarin.

And when it's reported by someone just a wee bit more objective and neutral than Gazans.

Until then... yawn.

MEH... no big deal... nothing to see here.

Gas is being used in Gaza.

I posted an article, but it was last night, I think after that article was written, it was widely being reported from Gaza in social media, Facebook and Twitter. I even have a photo but I can't post from my phone. It's on Twitter .

Check out @imranq's Tweet: https://twitter.com/imranq/status/491775880864468992

That is wrong link, the one above addresses a massacre being carried out right now by Israel in Khanyounis.

Check out @sazahrani96's Tweet: https://twitter.com/sazahrani96/status/491409999860469760

There isn't a single report of any such thing from any credible source. I recall all too well how certain posters were oh-so-eager to repeat previous hateful unsubstantiated allegations against Israel - and refused to acknowledge after those allegations were thoroughly debunked.

So NO, I do not accept such allegations.

What allegations are you talking about?

And your personal opinion towards a particular website, don't mean shit!

 

[Indeependent]

...It's none of Israel's god-damn business who Gazans choose to represent them.

It is when the charter of that party is devoted to the destruction of Israel.

Of course, I don't know how things work in that land of unicorns and rainbows that you hail from.

Apparently, that oft repeated fact is STILL none of Israel's God damned business!

 

[Kondor3]

...It's none of Israel's god-damn business who Gazans choose to represent them.

It is when the charter of that party is devoted to the destruction of Israel.

Of course, I don't know how things work in that land of unicorns and rainbows that you hail from.

Apparently, that oft repeated fact is STILL none of Israel's God damned business!

Yeah... I can't believe what a tool (and fool) our colleague is. Then again, come to think of it, he's young, and impressionable, and easily swayed, as are most undeveloped minds.

 

[Billo_Really]

The corruption at the head of Hamas | JPost | Israel News

I've already cited the info in the above article before. Keep in mind that the author is quoting different Arab sources complaining about HAMAS' corruption

"According to Palestinian news agency WAFA, the Hamas movement is in the throes of an economic crisis in its political, military and social institutions, after a number of corruption affairs within it were exposed. Public anger has forced the movement to bring many activists accused of corruption to justice, to avoid a revolution in the Gaza Strip. Some of the cases involved bribery in the justice system itself."

So what are you saying, that Khaled Mashaal and Ismail Haniyeh are the Muslim Koch Brothers?

 

[Billo_Really]

It is when the charter of that party is devoted to the destruction of Israel.

Of course, I don't know how things work in that land of unicorns and rainbows that you hail from.

And they've stated many times that part of the Charter is outdated and no longer followed. They also said they feel no need to re-write it, as long as the occupation and illegal and immoral blockade continue. Once Israel ends the blockade, that part of the Charter will be removed.

 

[Kondor3]

It is when the charter of that party is devoted to the destruction of Israel.

Of course, I don't know how things work in that land of unicorns and rainbows that you hail from.

And they've stated many times that part of the Charter is outdated and no longer followed. They also said they feel no need to re-write it, as long as the occupation and illegal and immoral blockade continue. Once Israel ends the blockade, that part of the Charter will be removed.

1. nobody believes them

2. losers do not dictate terms

 

[Indeependent]

It is when the charter of that party is devoted to the destruction of Israel.

Of course, I don't know how things work in that land of unicorns and rainbows that you hail from.

And they've stated many times that part of the Charter is outdated and no longer followed. They also said they feel no need to re-write it, as long as the occupation and illegal and immoral blockade continue. Once Israel ends the blockade, that part of the Charter will be removed.

What exactly does "outdated" mean?
They haven't been able to DO IT?

 

[Billo_Really]

1. nobody believes them

2. losers do not dictate terms

Except when they claim there's no occupation, then you quote them like gospel.

You talk like you're 15 years old.

 

[Indeependent]

1. nobody believes them

2. losers do not dictate terms

Except when they claim there's no occupation, then you quote them like gospel.

You talk like you're 15 years old.

Focus...
Rockets
Tunnels under other nations' soil
Focus...

 

[Kondor3]

1. nobody believes them

2. losers do not dictate terms

Except when they claim there's no occupation, then you quote them like gospel.

You talk like you're 15 years old.

I'm obliged to throttle back and use words that you will understand.

 

[Billo_Really]

What exactly does "outdated" mean?
They haven't been able to DO IT?

It means they recognize destroying Israel is no longer a reality. That their position needs to be more modernized with the times.

They haven't been the terrorist group people claim they are for a number of years now.

 

[Billo_Really]

I'm obliged to throttle back and use words that you will understand.

Prosecution rests, Your Honor!

 

[Kondor3]

What exactly does "outdated" mean?
They haven't been able to DO IT?

It means they recognize destroying Israel is no longer a reality. That their position needs to be more modernized with the times.

They haven't been the terrorist group people claim they are for a number of years now.

Doesn't matter.

They're dying by the truckload now.

Perhaps we can do a little fundraising online here, and collect funds to pay-out a steak dinner for two, to each IDF trooper who drops a Hamas fighter.

We can even open a forum devoted to it.

We'll call it "Dinner and a Show".

 

[Indeependent]

What exactly does "outdated" mean?
They haven't been able to DO IT?

It means they recognize destroying Israel is no longer a reality. That their position needs to be more modernized with the times.

They haven't been the terrorist group people claim they are for a number of years now.

They just like building tunnels under Egypt and Israel, popping up here and there and killing people.
You got neighbors like that?

 

[Kondor3]

I'm obliged to throttle back and use words that you will understand.

Prosecution rests, Your Honor!

A phrase that you first heard, here, from me, in connection with you - copycat.

But, back to the new 'Dinner and a Show' thread, where we can raise money for a steak dinner for two, to be awarded to each IDF trooper that kills a Hamas fighter.

That, and a 'Thank You' card.

Oh, and, mebbe some flowers.

And a Certificate of Appreciation.

 

[RoccoR]

[MENTION=19170]Coyote[/MENTION], aris2chat, et al,

There is no question that the events and situations experienced in the latter part of the 20th Century and the first decade (+) of the 21st Century have developed such that the question of "when an occupation has ended" has become muddled.

I'm not talking about "legality" - I'm talking about the accuracy of a claim. Israel did not leave Gaza completely.

And nothing I said has anything to do with shortages - I was pointing out a fact which is Israel did not leave Gaza completely - they left controlling some pretty important things.

from outside. Israel has controlled the air and water space since 1979 Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty
Israel supplied 1/3 of the electric power till gaza tried to take out the Israeli power station and cut their own power supply instead. Other commodities as with everyone else in the world, have to be bought and paid for. Israel has continued to deliver humanitarian items but hamas has to buy gas, water and other items from the PA who then buys them from Israel or in emergencies others buy the items for gaza like fuel when hamas won't fork over the money and intentionally causing blackouts and rolling schedules of a few hours a day.
Gaza raise fish in hatcheries, grow many of their own vegetables, raise goats sheep and cows for milk and meat, more than a third of the population rely on UN for their needs. Malls are well stocked as are most grocery stores. Basic medical supplies get delivered, some elective or alternative meds are not included and have to be bought separately. Israel still treats gazans in Israel hospitals on a permit basis issued by the PA or emergency basis.
Items that can be used in weapons are still restricted, and building items for the UN are cleared but too often hijacked by hamas.
Egypt has been more strict with their crossing because of attacks in sinai and smuggling through tunnels.

The point remains that they did not leave Gaza completely. Their control of the Gaza coastline has had a detrimental effect on the Gaza fishing industry for example. The point is you can not claim that they left Gaza completely when they have control over some pretty important items.

(CONSIDERATIONS)

In the case of the Gaza Strip, the questions are huge and varied in concept.

The first question is:

• After the withdrawal, did the Israeli Forces (foreign forces) continued to exert effective control over the territory (Gaza Strip)?

The underpinning behind the definition of an "Occupation" starts with Article 42 of the Hague Regulations of 1907.

Article 42

Territory is considered occupied when it is actually placed under the authority of the hostile army.

The occupation extends only to the territory where such authority has been established and can be exercised.

SOURCE: ICRC, IHL, Convention (IV) respecting the Laws and Customs of War on Land and its annex: Regulations concerning the Laws and Customs of War on Land. The Hague, 18 October 1907.

The applicability of this IHL definition rests with the question relative to the facts on the ground or at sea.

SET ONE:

• When did Israel have "effective control" of the Gaza Strip?
  • What is meant by "effective control?
• Did Israel have "effective control" of the Gaza Strip, prior to the most recent incursion?
  --- OR ---
• Did Hamas have "effective control" of the Gaza Strip, prior to the most recent incursion?

SET TWO:

• When was the Gaza Strip "placed under the authority of the hostile army;" - the Israeli Defense Force (IDF)?
• Was the Gaza Strip, prior to the latest incursion, "under the authority of the hostile army?"
  --- OR ---
• Was the Gaza Strip, prior to the latest incursion, under the authority of HAMAS?

(DISCUSSION POINTS)

Is it accurate to say that "if" Israel had "effective control" of the Gaza Strip, prior to this latest incursion, that it could have used such influence to disarm HAMAS and neutralize the ability of HAMAS to fire rockets, missiles, and mortars (indirect fire) before an incursion was required?

Is it accurate to say that Israel, in order to "effectively control" and neutralize the ability of HAMAS to strike Israel by means of indirect fire, it had to make an incursion?

Who is the authority for the Gaza Strip? Is Israel the voice of authority for the people of the Gaza Strip? --- OR --- Is HAMAS the voice of authority for the people of the Gaza Strip?

(COMMENT)

In Post #203 I addressed the more narrow scope of the Blockade, and the considerations that are made relative to San Remo Manual on International Law Applicable to Armed Conflicts at Sea. But in this discussion, we have to dig a bit deeper and ask the hard questions.

First, yes I agree that --- the separation barriers representing security in depth, the effective quarantine, and the containment of the hostile elements within the Gaza Strip do have an impact on the quality of life within the containment area. This does not, however, constitute either "effective control" or "placed the Gaza Strip under the authority" of Israel. It limits the spread and threat potential from escaping into areas to commit acts of Jihad and other forms of violence. This does not override the requirement and the duty of the Government of Israel from taking such steps as may be necessary to protect the people and sovereignty of their nation and citizens.

Second, the complaint of "Gaza" that they are under "occupation" does not fit the actual ground truth. Israel would not find it necessary to periodically mount military operations and penetrate the borders of Gaza, if it already had and maintained "effective control."

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[MHunterB]

The corruption at the head of Hamas | JPost | Israel News

I've already cited the info in the above article before. Keep in mind that the author is quoting different Arab sources complaining about HAMAS' corruption

"According to Palestinian news agency WAFA, the Hamas movement is in the throes of an economic crisis in its political, military and social institutions, after a number of corruption affairs within it were exposed. Public anger has forced the movement to bring many activists accused of corruption to justice, to avoid a revolution in the Gaza Strip. Some of the cases involved bribery in the justice system itself."

So what are you saying, that Khaled Mashaal and Ismail Haniyeh are the Muslim Koch Brothers?

Read the entire article. And I wasn't the one saying it......

 

[Vigilante]

 

[aris2chat]

Israel is already gassing the people in Gaza, so sure they would gas tunnels, no doubt about that.

Why do you think that you can just make up any lie about the IDF and get away with it?

Medical sources: Israel using unfamiliar toxic gas against Palestinians in Gaza

Friday, 18 July 2014 12:24

The on-going military operation, dubbed by Israel 'Operation Protective Edge', has so far resulted in the killing of at least 249 Palestinians and the wounding of 1860 others, according to Palestinian Health Ministry records

Dozens of Palestinians, including children, suffered from suffocation on Thursday due to inhaling what is being described as a "strange toxic gas" launched by the Israeli army during its ground incursion in the north and south of the Gaza Strip, Anadolu news agency reported.

Anadolu*quoted Dr. Ashraf Al-Qidra, a spokesperson for the Health Ministry in Gaza, as saying that: "Dozens of Palestinians, including children, arrived at hospitals suffering from suffocation after inhaling a white poisonous gas fired by the Israeli army in the northern Gaza Strip and in the Shawkah neighbourhood near Rafah, to the south."

Al-Qidra urged the Palestinians in Gaza "not to panic when they inhale the strange gas, to protect themselves using tarpaulin coats or nylon clothes and to cover the doors, windows and vents with a moist cloth to prevent air from leaking inside."

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/n...miliar-toxic-gas-against-palestinians-in-gaza

story of the gas can be traced back to Press TV (Iranian)

 

[Vigilante]