Israel - Apartheid, yes or no.

[RoccoR]

montelatici, et al,

You are trying to make a connections in order to make the law fit your agenda.

montelatici, et al,

A non-Jew is not a separate race. The "apartheid laws" are about the discriminatory law pertaining to separate racial groups.

-Within Israel, there is no discriminatory laws that lend advantage or penalize Jewish citizens of varying races.

We are talking about non-Jews Rocco, get with the program.

Of course the granting of citizenship or immigration rights based on being Jewish lends advantage to those who are Jewish.

Having laws that prevent non-Jews from buying/leasing land reserved to only Jews is also discriminatory.

Quit tap dancing Rocco, you are making a fool of yourself.

(COMMENT)

There are no laws in Israel that lend advantage or penalize the difference between a Caucasian Jew and a Black Jew. If there were, then that would be the defining characteristic that could lead to "apartheid." But, in fact, I find no distinction between the laws in Israel that distinguish the difference between races.

The laws that pertain the Jewish are the same for each race --- Black or Caucasian. The laws that pertain to non-Jews are the same, Black or Caucasian. The "Apartheid Laws" are in place to prevent the discrimination against "a racial group or groups from participation" in otherwise lawful activities enjoyed by all citizens. (Non-Jew is not a race.)

Read the law.

Most Respectfully,
R

You should do your homework before posting nonsense. You continue demonstrating your ignorance of the subject matter Rocco. As they say ""Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."

The operative definition of "racial identity" is provided in the 1965 International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination (which Israel signed), on which the apartheid convention explicitly draws.

"racial discrimination" is defined as "any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, color, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life."

International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination

(OBSERVATION)

Today there are African Jews, Japanese Jews, even Eskimo Jews. (By Tzvi Freeman)

(COMMENT)

• [Jews] are not an ethnic group, the Jews of Morrocco would not recognize the ethnicity of the Jews of Russia.
• [Jews] are not a culture, the Jews of Yemen would not recognize the culture of the Jews from Mexico.
• The Jews of Yemen, Morrocco, Mexico, and Russia are all Jews because they share the same religion [belief]. (By sfederow)

Why is it important to understand this? Because of the lengths to which anti-Israeli opponents have gone to press the crime of "Apartheid."

To this point, we've discussed the implications of the the Rome Statutes and the International Convention on the Suppression and Punishment of the Crime of Apartheid. 30 November 1973. Now we are working on the distinction made by the International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination (CERD).

As our friend "montelatici" points out, the 1965 CERD stipulates several factors:

• Color:
  • Jewishness is color immaterial...
    • There are both Jews and non-Jews of the same color.
      • There are Black Jews and there are Black non-Jews.
      • There are Caucasian Jews and there are Caucasian non-Jews.
• Descent:
  • Jewishness is not based on a specific derivation from an ancestral group, or lineage...
    • The Jewish Community in Kobe and Toyko Japan are probably not in the same linage as descendants of one of the lost tribes of Israel.
• National or Ethnic origin:
  • The North African Jews of Morocco, Algeria, Libya, Tunisia, Sudan and Egypt are of a different ethnic origin than the South African Jews, who are mostly Ashkenazi Jews descended from pre-and post-Holocaust immigrant Lithuanian Jews.
• Race:
  • Jewishness transcends all four Race Groups:
    • Caucasian
    • Mongoloid
    • Negroid
    • Austroloid

Thus, the CERD that our friend "montelatici" points out has no real application to the issue of "Apartheid" in Israel. If being a Jew is the criteria for favorable consideration to some aspect of life in Israel, then it can favorably consider Jews in each and every category for which the CERD protects; because there are Jews across the entire spectrum.

Jewishness is NOT based on race, color, descent, or national or ethnic origin. Nor does race, color, descent, or national or ethnic origin disqualify a person from being Jewish.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[montelatici]

Hey Rocco, I get it. You are embarrassed, you have been shown to be the fool you are. No matter, trying to rationalize Israeli Apartheid through failed semantics won't work. Let's break it down:

"any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, color, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life."

Descent, national or ethnic origin separate Jews from the Palestinians, if not, all Palestinians would at least have Jewish mothers descent wise.

Israel is a Apartheid state.

 

[toastman]

Hey Rocco, I get it. You are embarrassed, you have been shown to be the fool you are. No matter, trying to rationalize Israeli Apartheid through failed semantics won't work. Let's break it down:

"any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, color, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life."

Descent, national or ethnic origin separate Jews from the Palestinians, if not, all Palestinians would at least have Jewish mothers descent wise.

Israel is a Apartheid state.

Except Rocco is the calm one who has never insulted you in any way, while you continue to attack and insult him, which clearly shows how frustrated you are that you lost the debate again.

So, where is their apartheid in Israel ?

 

[toastman]

montelatici, et al,

You are trying to make a connections in order to make the law fit your agenda.

montelatici, et al,

A non-Jew is not a separate race. The "apartheid laws" are about the discriminatory law pertaining to separate racial groups.

-Within Israel, there is no discriminatory laws that lend advantage or penalize Jewish citizens of varying races.

We are talking about non-Jews Rocco, get with the program.

Of course the granting of citizenship or immigration rights based on being Jewish lends advantage to those who are Jewish.

Having laws that prevent non-Jews from buying/leasing land reserved to only Jews is also discriminatory.

Quit tap dancing Rocco, you are making a fool of yourself.

(COMMENT)

There are no laws in Israel that lend advantage or penalize the difference between a Caucasian Jew and a Black Jew. If there were, then that would be the defining characteristic that could lead to "apartheid." But, in fact, I find no distinction between the laws in Israel that distinguish the difference between races.

The laws that pertain the Jewish are the same for each race --- Black or Caucasian. The laws that pertain to non-Jews are the same, Black or Caucasian. The "Apartheid Laws" are in place to prevent the discrimination against "a racial group or groups from participation" in otherwise lawful activities enjoyed by all citizens. (Non-Jew is not a race.)

Read the law.

Most Respectfully,
R

You should do your homework before posting nonsense. You continue demonstrating your ignorance of the subject matter Rocco. As they say ""Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."

The operative definition of "racial identity" is provided in the 1965 International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination (which Israel signed), on which the apartheid convention explicitly draws.

"racial discrimination" is defined as "any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, color, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life."

International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination

(OBSERVATION)

Today there are African Jews, Japanese Jews, even Eskimo Jews. (By Tzvi Freeman)

(COMMENT)

• [Jews] are not an ethnic group, the Jews of Morrocco would not recognize the ethnicity of the Jews of Russia.
• [Jews] are not a culture, the Jews of Yemen would not recognize the culture of the Jews from Mexico.
• The Jews of Yemen, Morrocco, Mexico, and Russia are all Jews because they share the same religion [belief]. (By sfederow)

Why is it important to understand this? Because of the lengths to which anti-Israeli opponents have gone to press the crime of "Apartheid."

To this point, we've discussed the implications of the the Rome Statutes and the International Convention on the Suppression and Punishment of the Crime of Apartheid. 30 November 1973. Now we are working on the distinction made by the International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination (CERD).

As our friend "montelatici" points out, the 1965 CERD stipulates several factors:

• Color:
  • Jewishness is color immaterial...
    • There are both Jews and non-Jews of the same color.
      • There are Black Jews and there are Black non-Jews.
      • There are Caucasian Jews and there are Caucasian non-Jews.
• Descent:
  • Jewishness is not based on a specific derivation from an ancestral group, or lineage...
    • The Jewish Community in Kobe and Toyko Japan are probably not in the same linage as descendants of one of the lost tribes of Israel.
• National or Ethnic origin:
  • The North African Jews of Morocco, Algeria, Libya, Tunisia, Sudan and Egypt are of a different ethnic origin than the South African Jews, who are mostly Ashkenazi Jews descended from pre-and post-Holocaust immigrant Lithuanian Jews.
• Race:
  • Jewishness transcends all four Race Groups:
    • Caucasian
    • Mongoloid
    • Negroid
    • Austroloid

Thus, the CERD that our friend "montelatici" points out has no real application to the issue of "Apartheid" in Israel. If being a Jew is the criteria for favorable consideration to some aspect of life in Israel, then it can favorably consider Jews in each and every category for which the CERD protects; because there are Jews across the entire spectrum.

Jewishness is NOT based on race, color, descent, or national or ethnic origin. Nor does race, color, descent, or national or ethnic origin disqualify a person from being Jewish.

Most Respectfully,
R

Great post Rocco. But Monti the propaganda is simply not able to accept the truth if it conflicts with his agenda. No matter how much indisputable evidence you give him, he will still act like a little child and deny the evident facts.

 

[montelatici]

Hey Rocco, I get it. You are embarrassed, you have been shown to be the fool you are. No matter, trying to rationalize Israeli Apartheid through failed semantics won't work. Let's break it down:

"any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, color, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life."

Descent, national or ethnic origin separate Jews from the Palestinians, if not, all Palestinians would at least have Jewish mothers descent wise.

Israel is a Apartheid state.

Except Rocco is the calm one who has never insulted you in any way, while you continue to attack and insult him, which clearly shows how frustrated you are that you lost the debate again.

So, where is their apartheid in Israel ?

Rocco is your typical passive aggressive that is full of crap and does not know what he is talking about. I don't suffer fools.

Way up thread, no point in repeating it.

 

[montelatici]

montelatici, et al,

You are trying to make a connections in order to make the law fit your agenda.

montelatici, et al,

A non-Jew is not a separate race. The "apartheid laws" are about the discriminatory law pertaining to separate racial groups.

-Within Israel, there is no discriminatory laws that lend advantage or penalize Jewish citizens of varying races.

We are talking about non-Jews Rocco, get with the program.

Of course the granting of citizenship or immigration rights based on being Jewish lends advantage to those who are Jewish.

Having laws that prevent non-Jews from buying/leasing land reserved to only Jews is also discriminatory.

Quit tap dancing Rocco, you are making a fool of yourself.

(COMMENT)

There are no laws in Israel that lend advantage or penalize the difference between a Caucasian Jew and a Black Jew. If there were, then that would be the defining characteristic that could lead to "apartheid." But, in fact, I find no distinction between the laws in Israel that distinguish the difference between races.

The laws that pertain the Jewish are the same for each race --- Black or Caucasian. The laws that pertain to non-Jews are the same, Black or Caucasian. The "Apartheid Laws" are in place to prevent the discrimination against "a racial group or groups from participation" in otherwise lawful activities enjoyed by all citizens. (Non-Jew is not a race.)

Read the law.

Most Respectfully,
R

You should do your homework before posting nonsense. You continue demonstrating your ignorance of the subject matter Rocco. As they say ""Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."

The operative definition of "racial identity" is provided in the 1965 International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination (which Israel signed), on which the apartheid convention explicitly draws.

"racial discrimination" is defined as "any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, color, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life."

International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination

(OBSERVATION)

Today there are African Jews, Japanese Jews, even Eskimo Jews. (By Tzvi Freeman)

(COMMENT)

• [Jews] are not an ethnic group, the Jews of Morrocco would not recognize the ethnicity of the Jews of Russia.
• [Jews] are not a culture, the Jews of Yemen would not recognize the culture of the Jews from Mexico.
• The Jews of Yemen, Morrocco, Mexico, and Russia are all Jews because they share the same religion [belief]. (By sfederow)

Why is it important to understand this? Because of the lengths to which anti-Israeli opponents have gone to press the crime of "Apartheid."

To this point, we've discussed the implications of the the Rome Statutes and the International Convention on the Suppression and Punishment of the Crime of Apartheid. 30 November 1973. Now we are working on the distinction made by the International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination (CERD).

As our friend "montelatici" points out, the 1965 CERD stipulates several factors:

• Color:
  • Jewishness is color immaterial...
    • There are both Jews and non-Jews of the same color.
      • There are Black Jews and there are Black non-Jews.
      • There are Caucasian Jews and there are Caucasian non-Jews.
• Descent:
  • Jewishness is not based on a specific derivation from an ancestral group, or lineage...
    • The Jewish Community in Kobe and Toyko Japan are probably not in the same linage as descendants of one of the lost tribes of Israel.
• National or Ethnic origin:
  • The North African Jews of Morocco, Algeria, Libya, Tunisia, Sudan and Egypt are of a different ethnic origin than the South African Jews, who are mostly Ashkenazi Jews descended from pre-and post-Holocaust immigrant Lithuanian Jews.
• Race:
  • Jewishness transcends all four Race Groups:
    • Caucasian
    • Mongoloid
    • Negroid
    • Austroloid

Thus, the CERD that our friend "montelatici" points out has no real application to the issue of "Apartheid" in Israel. If being a Jew is the criteria for favorable consideration to some aspect of life in Israel, then it can favorably consider Jews in each and every category for which the CERD protects; because there are Jews across the entire spectrum.

Jewishness is NOT based on race, color, descent, or national or ethnic origin. Nor does race, color, descent, or national or ethnic origin disqualify a person from being Jewish.

Most Respectfully,
R

Great post Rocco. But Monti the propaganda is simply not able to accept the truth if it conflicts with his agenda. No matter how much indisputable evidence you give him, he will still act like a little child and deny the evident facts.

Oh come on. Are you that stupid too. He was trying to use semantics to claim that since Palestinians aren't a separate race, so any discrimination against them was not Apartheid, because Apartheid was related to race. I posted the actual legal definition which brought down his silly semantic defense. Grow up.

 

[toastman]

montelatici, et al,

You are trying to make a connections in order to make the law fit your agenda.

montelatici, et al,

A non-Jew is not a separate race. The "apartheid laws" are about the discriminatory law pertaining to separate racial groups.

-Within Israel, there is no discriminatory laws that lend advantage or penalize Jewish citizens of varying races.

We are talking about non-Jews Rocco, get with the program.

Of course the granting of citizenship or immigration rights based on being Jewish lends advantage to those who are Jewish.

Having laws that prevent non-Jews from buying/leasing land reserved to only Jews is also discriminatory.

Quit tap dancing Rocco, you are making a fool of yourself.

(COMMENT)

There are no laws in Israel that lend advantage or penalize the difference between a Caucasian Jew and a Black Jew. If there were, then that would be the defining characteristic that could lead to "apartheid." But, in fact, I find no distinction between the laws in Israel that distinguish the difference between races.

The laws that pertain the Jewish are the same for each race --- Black or Caucasian. The laws that pertain to non-Jews are the same, Black or Caucasian. The "Apartheid Laws" are in place to prevent the discrimination against "a racial group or groups from participation" in otherwise lawful activities enjoyed by all citizens. (Non-Jew is not a race.)

Read the law.

Most Respectfully,
R

You should do your homework before posting nonsense. You continue demonstrating your ignorance of the subject matter Rocco. As they say ""Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."

The operative definition of "racial identity" is provided in the 1965 International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination (which Israel signed), on which the apartheid convention explicitly draws.

"racial discrimination" is defined as "any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, color, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life."

International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination

(OBSERVATION)

Today there are African Jews, Japanese Jews, even Eskimo Jews. (By Tzvi Freeman)

(COMMENT)

• [Jews] are not an ethnic group, the Jews of Morrocco would not recognize the ethnicity of the Jews of Russia.
• [Jews] are not a culture, the Jews of Yemen would not recognize the culture of the Jews from Mexico.
• The Jews of Yemen, Morrocco, Mexico, and Russia are all Jews because they share the same religion [belief]. (By sfederow)

Why is it important to understand this? Because of the lengths to which anti-Israeli opponents have gone to press the crime of "Apartheid."

To this point, we've discussed the implications of the the Rome Statutes and the International Convention on the Suppression and Punishment of the Crime of Apartheid. 30 November 1973. Now we are working on the distinction made by the International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination (CERD).

As our friend "montelatici" points out, the 1965 CERD stipulates several factors:

• Color:
  • Jewishness is color immaterial...
    • There are both Jews and non-Jews of the same color.
      • There are Black Jews and there are Black non-Jews.
      • There are Caucasian Jews and there are Caucasian non-Jews.
• Descent:
  • Jewishness is not based on a specific derivation from an ancestral group, or lineage...
    • The Jewish Community in Kobe and Toyko Japan are probably not in the same linage as descendants of one of the lost tribes of Israel.
• National or Ethnic origin:
  • The North African Jews of Morocco, Algeria, Libya, Tunisia, Sudan and Egypt are of a different ethnic origin than the South African Jews, who are mostly Ashkenazi Jews descended from pre-and post-Holocaust immigrant Lithuanian Jews.
• Race:
  • Jewishness transcends all four Race Groups:
    • Caucasian
    • Mongoloid
    • Negroid
    • Austroloid

Thus, the CERD that our friend "montelatici" points out has no real application to the issue of "Apartheid" in Israel. If being a Jew is the criteria for favorable consideration to some aspect of life in Israel, then it can favorably consider Jews in each and every category for which the CERD protects; because there are Jews across the entire spectrum.

Jewishness is NOT based on race, color, descent, or national or ethnic origin. Nor does race, color, descent, or national or ethnic origin disqualify a person from being Jewish.

Most Respectfully,
R

Great post Rocco. But Monti the propaganda is simply not able to accept the truth if it conflicts with his agenda. No matter how much indisputable evidence you give him, he will still act like a little child and deny the evident facts.

Oh come on. Are you that stupid too. He was trying to use semantics to claim that since Palestinians aren't a separate race, so any discrimination against them was not Apartheid, because Apartheid was related to race. I posted the actual legal definition which brought down his silly semantic defense. Grow up.

You're the one who needs to group up. Lie I said earlier, Rocco never uses insults or personal attacks when he is debating with someone, yet you keep calling him names and being a complete ass to him, while he is calm.
Then you tell ME to grow up ??? I think it's time we added hypocrite to the list of things that define you.

 

[Kondor3]

Apartheid? Nope.

 

[toastman]

I'm STILL waiting for someone to tell me where in Israel is there apartheid ......

 

[montelatici]

I'm STILL waiting for someone to tell me where in Israel is there apartheid ......

Upthread, just read it, not just from me.

 

[toastman]

I'm STILL waiting for someone to tell me where in Israel is there apartheid ......

Upthread, just read it, not just from me.

I saw your definition, now where does this take place inside Israel ?

 

[montelatici]

It is way up thread, many have posted the facts that confirm Israeli Apartheid. Just go look yourself.

 

[RoccoR]

montelatici, et al,

In our recent exchanges on the applicability to the allegation of the "Crime of Apartheid" against the State of Israel, I did not address the part of the Palestinian or its State. We discussed the criteria and circumstances under which the elements of the offense would adequately be the description for the actual actions in the allegation; but not its association with the "Palestinians;" either as victim or party to the crime.

Oh come on. Are you that stupid too. He was trying to use semantics to claim that since Palestinians aren't a separate race, so any discrimination against them was not Apartheid, because Apartheid was related to race. I posted the actual legal definition which brought down his silly semantic defense. Grow up.

(COMMENT)

Within the last 50 Postings in this thread (Israel - Apartheid, yes or no), only in Post #12 did I indirectly mention the Palestinians; and that was with respect to the application of the concept requirement of "effective control" to maintain and "ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety. Otherwise, I have not mentioned "Palestinians" as the object of "apartheid."

In the case that --- it is you that is suggesting that the "Palestinian" is a "separate race." Since Israel has a wide spectrum of races that are Jewish, the questions becomes, relative to the definition of "apartheid":

• Is there any such thing as a Jewish Palestinian?

If there is such a thing as a Jewish Palestinian, then the Palestinians are not a "separate race." Conversely, if there is no such thing as a Jewish Palestinian, what race are the Palestinians?

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[montelatici]

For your benefit, let me repeat that, according to Article II of the Apartheid convention, the term applies to acts committed for the purpose of establishing and maintaining domination by one racial group of persons over any other racial group of persons and systematically oppressing them. The convention states that denying those others the right to life and liberty, subjecting them to arbitrary arrest, expropriating their property, depriving them of the right to leave and return to their country or the right to freedom of movement and of residence, creating separate reserves and/or ghettos for the members of different racial groups, preventing mixed marriages all are all examples of the crime of apartheid specifically mentioned in the convention.

 

[toastman]

It is way up thread, many have posted the facts that confirm Israeli Apartheid. Just go look yourself.

No, they haven't. Which is why I'm asking you. One more time liar. WHERE IS THERE APARTHEID IN ISRAEL

 

[toastman]

For your benefit, let me repeat that, according to Article II of the Apartheid convention, the term applies to acts committed for the purpose of establishing and maintaining domination by one racial group of persons over any other racial group of persons and systematically oppressing them. The convention states that denying those others the right to life and liberty, subjecting them to arbitrary arrest, expropriating their property, depriving them of the right to leave and return to their country or the right to freedom of movement and of residence, creating separate reserves and/or ghettos for the members of different racial groups, preventing mixed marriages all are all examples of the crime of apartheid specifically mentioned in the convention.

Name all the 'apartheid' laws and acts in ISRAEL, and lets take a look.

 

[montelatici]

montelatici, et al,

In our recent exchanges on the applicability to the allegation of the "Crime of Apartheid" against the State of Israel, I did not address the part of the Palestinian or its State. We discussed the criteria and circumstances under which the elements of the offense would adequately be the description for the actual actions in the allegation; but not its association with the "Palestinians;" either as victim or party to the crime.

Oh come on. Are you that stupid too. He was trying to use semantics to claim that since Palestinians aren't a separate race, so any discrimination against them was not Apartheid, because Apartheid was related to race. I posted the actual legal definition which brought down his silly semantic defense. Grow up.

(COMMENT)

Within the last 50 Postings in this thread (Israel - Apartheid, yes or no), only in Post #12 did I indirectly mention the Palestinians; and that was with respect to the application of the concept requirement of "effective control" to maintain and "ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety. Otherwise, I have not mentioned "Palestinians" as the object of "apartheid."

In the case that --- it is you that is suggesting that the "Palestinian" is a "separate race." Since Israel has a wide spectrum of races that are Jewish, the questions becomes, relative to the definition of "apartheid":

• Is there any such thing as a Jewish Palestinian?

If there is such a thing as a Jewish Palestinian, then the Palestinians are not a "separate race." Conversely, if there is no such thing as a Jewish Palestinian, what race are the Palestinians?

Most Respectfully,
R

Oh, quit the semantics. It isn't getting you anywhere. There are a class of people in Israel that do not have the same rights as Jews. That is Apartheid.

Ethnic origin in the convention covers your attempt at using semantics to absolve your Zionist friends. Give it up, I am much smarter than you. You will always lose in a debate with me, trust me. By the way Rocco, as a terrone, you are probably mostly Arab anyway, are you a self hating Arab?

" States Parties condemn all propaganda and all organizations which are based on ideas or theories of superiority of one race or group of persons of one colour or ethnic origin..."

International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination

 

[montelatici]

For your benefit, let me repeat that, according to Article II of the Apartheid convention, the term applies to acts committed for the purpose of establishing and maintaining domination by one racial group of persons over any other racial group of persons and systematically oppressing them. The convention states that denying those others the right to life and liberty, subjecting them to arbitrary arrest, expropriating their property, depriving them of the right to leave and return to their country or the right to freedom of movement and of residence, creating separate reserves and/or ghettos for the members of different racial groups, preventing mixed marriages all are all examples of the crime of apartheid specifically mentioned in the convention.

Name all the 'apartheid' laws and acts in ISRAEL, and lets take a look.

Well hers are some of them.


Laws pertaining to Citizenship and Identity
Palestinian identity is not recognized in Israeli law or society: Palestinians are referred to as Arab Israelis

The most important immigration laws—including the Law of Return {1950}1 and the Citizenship Law {1952}20,- privilege Jews and Jewish immigration over non-Jews. Jews are granted the right to immigrate and become Israeli citizens even if they have no connection to Israel, while 750,000 Palestinians and their descendants expelled in 1948 have no such right. It is nearly impossible for Palestinians outside Israel to become Israeli citizens.

Population Registry Law {1965}1 –Requires all residents of Israel to register their nationality [i.e., Jewish, Arab, Druze] with the Population Registry and obtain an identity card carrying this information. The Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights Says: “a dual system of law discriminates between Jewish Israelis and indigenous Palestinians based on a constructed status of 'Jewish nationality'. This prejudicial application of law is apparent in all processes of the legal system, from the rights to information and fair trial to detention and prison treatment.”

Identity Certificate [Possession and Presentation] Law {1982}1 –Residents must carry identity cards at all times and present them to "senior police officers,” to the heads of local authorities, or to police officers or soldiers on duty when requested to do so. Jewish citizens are seldom asked to present their cards, while Palestinians often are.

Family Unification {2003}5,22– Under the 2003 policy for "family unification" non-citizen spouses and children of Arab Israeli citizens are prohibited from entering Israel [and living with their spouse/parent]. This means if you are a Palestinian from outside Israel, married to an Israeli, you are barred from living with your spouse in Israel. This does not apply to any other nationality beside Arabs. This “interim” provision has been regularly extended, most recently in January, 2011.

Serving in the armed forces17 -Israeli Jews (except some orthodox Jews) have to serve in the Israeli army when they turn 18. Most Palestinians are forbidden to serve in the army. Many of the benefits of society are given to people who have served. Preferential treatment of housing, education and other services are given to army veterans.

The Citizenship Law{2008} 20 -Several attempts have been made in recent years to make it possible to strip Israeli citizenship for various reasons related to alleged “disloyalty” to the state or “breach of trust.” All of these attempts have indirectly targeted the citizenship rights of Palestinian citizens. This law allows the citizenship of an Israeli citizen to be revoked on the grounds of “breach of trust or disloyalty to the state.” “Breach of trust” is broadly defined.


Laws pertaining to acquisition and ownership of land

Absentee Property Law {No. 20, March 1950}1,6,20 -A law to confiscate property from Palestinians inside the state of Israel. It confiscated land from 750,000 refugees ethnically cleansed from Palestine in 1947-49 and “internally displaced" Palestinians who remained in Israel. Before 1948, Palestinians owned 90% of the land in Palestine; in 1952 they owned 3%; today, they are a mostly a landless people. The law classifies the personal property of Palestinians forced to flee (or internally displaced) as "absentee property" and places it under the authority of the Custodian of Absentee Property.

Development Authority [Transfer of Property Law] {July 1950}1 ,8,10,19-Transfers confiscated Palestinian villages and private property to the Jewish National Fund –Jewish Agency [Status] Law {1952} 8,18 and Jewish National Fund Law {1953}9 -Establishes the World Zionist Organization, the Jewish Agency and the Jewish National Fund as organizations with governmental status in fulfilling Zionist objectives - the immigration and settlement of Jews in Palestine. Under a complicated interplay of Israel’s Basic Law, bestowing quasi governmental status and the transfer of “public land” to these agencies whose charters restrict the sale, transfer or lease of land to non-Jews, Israel has managed to prohibit non-Jewish [i.e., Palestinian] citizens from acquiring land or leasing land, including land taken from them under various statutes [see above].3 93% of the land in Israel has this prohibition.

Land Acquisition [Validity of Acts and Compensation] {Law No. 25, 1953}11 –Confiscated the land of more than 400 Palestinian villages; "validates" retroactively their use for military purposes and for Jewish settlements.

National Planning and Building Law {1965}12-Creates a system of discriminatory zoning and freezes existing Arab villages while allowing expansion of Jewish settlements. It also re-classifies many Arab villages as "non-residential," thereby creating "unrecognized villages" – villages that do not receive basic municipal services such as water and electricity; all buildings are threatened with demolition orders.

Land Acquisition in the Negev [Peace Treaty with Egypt Law] {1980}13 -Seizes thousands of dunums from Bedouins in order to expand Jewish settlements. Palestinian property is confiscated to this day: these complicated property laws and local ordinances are used to continually take Palestinian Israeli land, in recent years, most notable in Jaffa.

Bill on Admission Committees16,22 {2011} -This bill allows admission committees in 300 Jewish-majority communities to reject applicants for residency who do not meet vague "social suitability" criteria. The measure anchors in law a practice that has been the basis for unjustly rejecting applications by Palestinian Arabs. While Israeli planning authorities have established hundreds of Jewish towns and villages, Israel has not allowed Arab citizens to establish any new towns since 1948. Today Palestinian citizens of Israel are in practice blocked from purchasing or leasing land on around 80% of the land in Israel on the basis of their national belonging.101 As a result, the vast majority of state land consists of segregated, Jewish-only areas.


Laws pertaining to political participation14

Section 7A(1) of the Basic Law: The Knesset {1958, passed in 1985}15-Bars a list of candidates from participation in elections to the Knesset “if its aims or actions, expressly or by implication” deny “the existence of the State of Israel as the state of the Jewish people.

The Law of Political Parties {1982} -Bars the Registrar of Political Parties from registering a political party if it denies “the existence of the State of Israel as a Jewish and democratic State.” In 2002 both Section 7A(1) of the Basic Law and Knesset and the Law of Political Parties were amended further to bar those whose goals or actions, directly or indirectly, “support armed struggle of an enemy state or of a terror organization, against the State of Israel.” These amendments were added expressly to curtail the political participation of Palestinian Arabs within Israel – such as Azmi Bishara – who have expressed solidarity with Palestinians resisting military occupation in the West Bank and Gaza.

Many Appointments to Government25 positions and regional councils have positions statutorily set aside of spots for Zionist organizations, thereby discriminating against Palestinians in their rulings of group composition.

No Equal Legal Protection1,20- The Israeli courts – guided by the Supreme Court – have consistently decided that discrimination between Arabs and Jews is legitimate based on the founding principles of Israel as a state for the Jewish people; “nationality” is a legitimate basis for discrimination. In the State of Israel vs. Ashgoyev (1988), an Israeli settler was convicted by the Tel Aviv District Court of shooting a Palestinian child. His sentence was a suspended jail term of six months and community service. When challenged, the judge, Uri Shtruzman, said: “It is wrong to demand in the name of equality, equal bearing and equal sentences to two offenders who have different nationalities who break the laws of the State. The sentence that deters the one and his audience does not deter the other and his community.”

The Nakba Bill{2011}16,22 - Persons marking Nakba Day as a day of mourning for the establishment of the State of Israel will be sentenced to prison. In the wake of public protests, its wording was changed to state that persons marking Nakba Day shall be denied public funds.

The Emergency Powers (Detention) Law23,24 {1979} and the Prevention of Terrorism Ordinance {1948} - have been used to detain Palestinian Arab citizens of Israel without benefit of trial and without permitting contact with lawyers. The Criminal Procedure (Powers of Enforcement, Detentions) Law {1996} has been used to target Palestinian protests and make mass arrests to stifle political decent.

 

[toastman]

Some of those don't even apply to citizens of Israel. The rest of them are really nothing Monti. THAT'S what you guys call apartheid ?!?!!?

Nothing you posted is really worthy of complaining about. All citizens of Israel have free rights and can do whatever they want to. Arabs can walk into any restaurant they want to, learn at any school they want to, start any kind of business they want to, practice any religion they want to etc. They have freedom.

How can you people compare Israel to Apartheid SA, where Blacks couldn't walk into certain restaurants, go to certain schools, and were left out from being allowed to do many things that white people were allowed to do ?
There is NO COMPARISON whatsoever between the two countries. None.

 

[toastman]

montelatici, et al,

In our recent exchanges on the applicability to the allegation of the "Crime of Apartheid" against the State of Israel, I did not address the part of the Palestinian or its State. We discussed the criteria and circumstances under which the elements of the offense would adequately be the description for the actual actions in the allegation; but not its association with the "Palestinians;" either as victim or party to the crime.

Oh come on. Are you that stupid too. He was trying to use semantics to claim that since Palestinians aren't a separate race, so any discrimination against them was not Apartheid, because Apartheid was related to race. I posted the actual legal definition which brought down his silly semantic defense. Grow up.

(COMMENT)

Within the last 50 Postings in this thread (Israel - Apartheid, yes or no), only in Post #12 did I indirectly mention the Palestinians; and that was with respect to the application of the concept requirement of "effective control" to maintain and "ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety. Otherwise, I have not mentioned "Palestinians" as the object of "apartheid."

In the case that --- it is you that is suggesting that the "Palestinian" is a "separate race." Since Israel has a wide spectrum of races that are Jewish, the questions becomes, relative to the definition of "apartheid":

• Is there any such thing as a Jewish Palestinian?

If there is such a thing as a Jewish Palestinian, then the Palestinians are not a "separate race." Conversely, if there is no such thing as a Jewish Palestinian, what race are the Palestinians?

Most Respectfully,
R

Oh, quit the semantics. It isn't getting you anywhere. There are a class of people in Israel that do not have the same rights as Jews. That is Apartheid.

Ethnic origin in the convention covers your attempt at using semantics to absolve your Zionist friends. Give it up, I am much smarter than you. You will always lose in a debate with me, trust me. By the way Rocco, as a terrone, you are probably mostly Arab anyway, are you a self hating Arab?

" States Parties condemn all propaganda and all organizations which are based on ideas or theories of superiority of one race or group of persons of one colour or ethnic origin..."

International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination

Did you even read his post ?? You didn't even answer his questions. Stop debating with people if you can't handle the simple truth.